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6 out of 800 is numerous !!! okay i think there is no point in discussing this...yes it was karagattakaaran...and see "inviting" is a better choice than "begging"...i think the fraction of his fans who do not like IRs singing is insignificant...of course if every time you make this point would count as an extra fan then the number would be high :-)...Quote:
Originally Posted by vijayr
Thops, 6 times is numerous enough when compared with non-appearances from others. This, supposedly coming from someone who is media-shy and shunned publicity.
As for his singing I like(and prefer) his singing too in certain songs(Kaattu vazhi is the latest one), but not enough to warrant him singing 400+ songs several of which could have gone to more deserving singers. And I am sure many IR fans would agree with that too, as much as they like his voice.
rprasad when did I "adamantly insist my opinions were always right"? I am just defending my views, thats all. Your outburst only reflects on your maturity(or lack of it) :-)And I do have some knowledge of certain first-hand accounts of several people based on which I make comments.
Anyways, there can never be a proper excuse for bad songs, especially in large numbers.
"so what if he complained publicly of same situations being given to him, it does not mean he hated the work."
it doesnt mean he liked it either. No one before(or after) him has publicly complained about the same situations/movies and have ended up doing 50 films a year. Rafi and KK are singers, not composers. They can only sing what has been composed. They have added value to even some of the junk compositions in certain instances. Thats the best they can do.
OK, getting back to the topic, let me ctrl-c/v of a part of Theodore Baskaran's article from the Hindu
link:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/20...0600150500.htm
The following part is really interesting:
No other artiste's career symbolises the popularity and hold of film music, as does Ilayaraja's. He has been at work in Tamil cinema for 25 years and has composed music for more than 800 films in five languages. For the Tamil diaspora, Ilayaraja has emerged as a cultural force.
Ilayaraja came on the scene 45 years after film music had first appeared. When he entered Tamil films in the mid 1970s, there was stagnation, in film music and in the type of films that were being made. Ilayaraja's innovative creations came as a whiff of fresh air. The song that made him famous in his debut film "Annakili" (1976) "Annakili Unnai Theduthu" (Annam is looking out for you) was authentically folk and soon was playing throughout Tamil Nadu. The film "Kavikuyil" (1977) stabilised his position in the film world.
There are three elements of Ilayaraja's music, the first is the folk music of the Tamils, such as the work songs and march songs. The second is Carnatic music and the third European classical music. Folk music has been used earlier, but quite functionally through classical music idiom. Ilayaraja brought it in with its soul, with its earthy, rooty characteristics. He used authentic instruments like tharai and thappattai (drums). In many films he has demonstrated his skill over Carnatic music, handling some difficult ragas. In 1989 when the Classical Musicians Forum honoured him, Ilayaraja pointed out that classical musicians were not being innovative and were parroting the same ragas and songs. He went on to point out that film musicians, just to survive, have to be creative.
When he came to Madras in search of fortune, he learnt Western music and quickly became familiar with Western Classical. In fact when Ilayaraja went for his first audition in 1968, the piece that he played on his harmonium was Laura's theme from the film "Dr. Zhivago." Much later, in 1989 after dominating the film music scene for a decade, he brought out his first independent album "How To Name It" in which he established his mastery in fusion music. One critic (C.S.G. Prasad) has suggested four factors as the basis of Ilayaraja's success as a music director: his fidelity to the form he chooses, whether it is folk or classical, his musical imagination that provides evocative background score, his sense of harmony which keeps each song under control as it were and lastly his brilliant orchestration.
But most of all, Ilayaraja's understanding of the role of music in films is what set him apart. He realises that film music is not just music placed on the sound track of a film and that it should not be created as if it was a mere aural experience, isolated of the images of a film. It is applied music. It has to integrate with the narrative, not intrude upon it. It has to go with the images that appear on the screen and enhance the quality of cinema. It is part of a viewing experience. To achieve this, the music director should be familiar with the aesthetics of cinema, with its form and with its possibilities.
In cinema, a good music composer is not necessarily a good music director. Ilayaraja's comprehension of cinema is evident in his background scores, which add a new dimension to it. He pays closer attention to this aspect as few have done before. He watches the film fully, grasps the basic thrust of the film and adds appropriate musical score in the soundtrack. Ilayaraja has shown that just as imaginative lighting could enhance the visuals and their cinematic quality, so can background music. This can be pointed out as his defining influence. One film in which this is evident is Balu Mahendra's "Veedu." The film had no song. He also composes music to suit the lead characters of a particular film. This is new to Tamil cinema,. He says that he tries to understand the character, her/ his inner feelings and then decides on the appropriate music and instruments that would go with the particular character.
The director of the film "Bharathi" told me that when he showed him the film script and screened the rushes, Ilayaraja was quick to grasp that the liet motif of the film was the poet's famous lines "Having crafted a fine Veenai, would you fling it, so its timbre is ruined, in the dust"? In the last scene, this song has been placed as an off screen voice. At a poignant moment Ilayaraja joins in with his mellifluous voice to close the song and the film.
I have given up posting responses to the postings of constant criticisisms andundermings of IR and his works in all of these threads eventhough I disagree with almost all of those criticisms.. I have rationalized my disagreements with such opinions as those expressed by people belonging to different segments with different tastes and preferences when it comes to music. However, the way these postings now read makes me think that it is written from the perspective that there can be only one opinion and that should match what is posted and whoever has opinions other than those are misinformed or purely blinded by admirations for IR and his works that their opinons lack objectivity. Unfortunately I cannot match such energy and persistence in voicing my contrary point of views.
However, I have come to a conclusion that IR could never do right again by their opinions. I decipher a passion of negativity against IR in these opinions that I have serious doubts that IR and his works will ver by right in their opinions again. There will always be a "but....". It is almost like Bill Clinton and the conservatives. Irrespective of the way Bill Clinton will be adored by his admireres, he can never do right by the conservatives. The same set of actions and opinions offered by Bill Clinton will evoke such different responses.
I truly value the spirit of freedom of speech and expression and is the basis of forums such as these. However, it has become a chore in the recent days to even come and read these postings because there is a constant indignation of IR. I do personally think that maybe in 100 years when people objectively evaluate the music from different composers during this time period devoid of biases shaped by socio, economic, demographic influences and current events of this era, the real relative wroth of these composers will be unearthed. And im my biased opinion, IR will stand above the rest. Until such onjective evaluations are made, I consider all other so-called evaluations just opinions.
I think people have choices. I do not think ARR's actual output in quality or quantity matches the hype nor in my opinion he is at a comparbale level with IR. However, I chose not to go in every ARR thread and insert my negative opinion over and over. I just do not invest even a dollar in his works.
Just musings of an IR fan. No disrespect meant - a contrarian viewpoint.
Also, now that I have taken the time to post a reply, let me register that contrary to views expressed I really enjoy four songs in Kargatttakari (kattu, enga ooru laila, samthule, kotti vacha), Peria marudhu, Three songs from Thedi vandha Rasaa (the song by Malaysia Vasudevan is just phenomenal) etc.
Vijayr,Quote:
Originally Posted by vijayr
He was never shy about media at any point of time. his opinion about media is here
http://www.ilayaraja.freeservers.com/FOR-ART.htm
FRONTLINE : Why do you avoid journalists and critics?
Ilaiyaraaja : Why should I meet journalists and critics? First if the critics assume that they know music, they can straight evaluate my music and write about it, no one is going to prevent it. If they don't know music, I have nothing to talk to them about.I am not avoiding out of any fear of controversy or anything of that sort. All these critics approach me with a hell of preconceived notions. They literally use me as a mouthpiece to voice their notions about music. Why should I give room for this?
Exactly the same applies to you too wahtever i have shown in bold :)
Where in world did you get the idea [ and a sure one too] that many IR fans agree with your opinion. Why the hell you try to thrust your opinions on us?!!
Infact everytime i buy a album i see is there atleast one song sung by IR. I am A big fan of IR's Voice and i know for some extent that many of my friends too like his voice. I witnessed the whole theatre going berserk during the first day show of 'Pithamagan' When IR started singing 'Yaarathu Yaarathu'.
I like the rendition of 'Idayam oru koil' by IR more than SPB's or a 'Enai thalatta varuvaalo' by IR more than Hariharan's.
For true everyone knows its only SPB and IR who sing without any pronunciation flaws.
I remember only once IR voice being criticized to core when he sang 'Ullukkulla chakravarthi' for rajni in Panakkaran. not because his voice was bad but since it didnt suit Rajni.And similar criticisms have been done upon udit, Karthick, Sankar mahadevan etc., singing for Rajni.
Apart from this and your constant criticism of IR's voice ive never heard any badmouthing of IR's voice in my 30 years of life in TN.
Even semmangudi had praised IR's singing when he listened to some of IR's keerthanais'
If IR's singing was not good enough as you say then why did the whole industry wanted him to sing the Title Song??? Man his voice was/ is adored by millions of fans around the world. and one Vijay trying to change his own prejudiced opinion into a mass opinion is not going to help any cause.
I would like to end up with a true life incident - I was touring kerala a couple of months back. we started talking about music betn us friends The driver who took us around joined in the conversation and said he was a fan of IR and said 'Saare avar music vida enakku IR voice la irukkura jeevan romba pidikkum" . He is a very good friend of mine as of now and we talk frequently over phone and the conversation always revolve around IR.
rajasaranam, I was talking about his appearance in films. Even with the press, he was more inaccessible as compared to other MDs. And the reasons he has given varies from interview to interview, depending on his mood.What you have posted is just one such reply. Even Kamal has recently said that IR is a "kuzhandhai" who cant handle publicity/press or something to that effect.
"Man his voice was/ is adored by millions of fans around the world"
Rajasaranam, I have seen many posting their opinions quite contrary to what you have said. And many of them are fans of his music. Even Thumburu, who has been defending IR here has expressed his apprehensions about IR singing in TIS in the TIS thread.
Millions of fans for his voice? How do you know? :-) I didnt say IR's singing was completely bad, I said he sang more songs (400+) then his voice warranted. And I know many who agree with me. (If I remember right,Actress Banumathi had once publicly criticized IR for singing) And IR himself says that its the listeners fate to listen to him sing in TIS, with a laugh :-)) Opinions on his singing are mixed, at best. Technically speaking, he goes off-key in many songs. But the emotional content compensates for it adequately in a handful of songs.
And the same Banumathi when produced a movie had IR singing in it :twisted:
Vijay, the fact that you keeping on talking about the same stuff in a thread which is not related to the thread shows your maturity level. Nobody is making excuses for Ir producing bad songs. For me there is just so much great stuff about IR that all the so called junk songs just dont exist for me and i dont waste my time trying to do research on those. But you seem to derive great pleasure in researching those. Thats fine with me , but this is not the thread for that.
You do not seem to have one constructive topic/idea for this thread to move forward. All you are concerned about is to argue with people about how many junks IR produced and why he did that. Is that relevant for this thread? as i told you why dont you open another thread for these topics. Nobody is preventing you from speaking your mind , it just has to be at the right place. we are trying to explore IR creative skills in composing here. Nobody is interested here to talk about Junks that he produced. We have too mugh good stuff from IR to talk about.
I hope you will stop here.
Actually, I opened another thread 'Hit rate of TFM MDs'. Vijay and others can continue this discussion there. Please devote this thread to the composing techniques'. I now have to go back quite a few pages to get some examples from Vinu and others to analyse in more detail.
There are so many things said in this thread which I dont agree or I think factually incorrect, but then again, I also, will adding to the irrelevance here.
More composing techniques write-up soon.