A shame

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Originally Posted by app_engine

One of my childhood friends was the eldest of 6 and his dad worked with my dad, but was an alcoholic. Apart from not giving a paisa to home, he'll hit wife, throw vessels around, shout and abuse children. The mom, though wanted to remedy the situation, had only primary education. So what did she finally do? Worked in the local school kitchen and brought up all the children. Can we tell her to sit home, after all 'uththiyOgam is purusha lakshanam'? Then we won't have 6 mature adults in the society today (and my friend later took care of his dad's addiction after he grew up and employed, by treating him in a clinic), but possibly criminals.

So, the decision to work or not has to be on a case-by-case basis. There cannot be a blanket statement.

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but this is not proper example(IMHO).....

sarna_blr, I agree this is not an example to support women going to job or seeking a career. Just to dispel the myth that 'u is purusha lakshanam'. Agreed it's the respo for man to provide for his family, in general. However, some "extreme" statements need countering by "extreme" situations:-) And if some is happy to be 'avalakshanam', life has to still go on for other family members:-)

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Originally Posted by app_engine

sarna_blr, I agree this is not an example to support women going to job or seeking a career. Just to dispel the myth that 'u is purusha lakshanam'. Agreed it's the respo for man to provide for his family, in general. However, some "extreme" statements need countering by "extreme" situations:-) And if some is happy to be 'avalakshanam', life has to still go on for other family members:-)

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avalakshanam..... :roll:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Looks like arguing for argument's sake! :lol: Being older than you I may have seen even more instances of unelightened mothers who have made their children grow into pucca villains & brutes!!!

What I wish is enlightenment for women, encouraging home environment for children & elders, pampered life in the shade & safety of home for women( already 'gifted' with enough physical discomforts by nature why aggravate it with all that added strain?). AND peace in the lives of men!!! :wink:

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ippdi oru kevalamaana thought-a refined english sonnaa mattum enna aaga poguthu PP madam??

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Originally Posted by app_engine

There is something called 'figurative' language:-) Anyways, let me explain what it means -

'pootti vaiththal' can easily be done by statements like below:

-women, be at home in your little kingdom as outside home is man's kingdom
-women, be happy about child-rearing at home and kitchen activites. May be read, surf, watch TV etc but never worry about any activity outside - not even charitable work
-women, working and earning money is not for you. It's only for men to be engaged in

All the above are figurative lock & key stuff. To work or not work depends upon ones situation and INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. I may not know the best situation for "Mrs Lakshmi" or "Miss Meena" as much as they do:-) (Disclaimer - names are just generic examples, doe s not refer to any individual)

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well said...

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Time to go to bed!!!

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itha post pannanumnu avasiyam illai..


anyway, "naan escapu.. aala vidungadaa saami"-nu sollavareengannu puriyuthu..

app_engine : great posts :)

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Originally Posted by ajithfederer

app_engine : great posts :)

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Thank you sir!

[app_engine: :)

IMO, women need to learn atleast one money-making skill...be it a job or home based small business or other skills...In this fast world, you never know what will happen to the bread-winner(husb) the very next moment... Incase of any mishap, like physical disability or illness or death, she needs to be prepared to take the role of the bread-winner... aprom aludhu polambittu irukiradhula use illai... It's a basic survival skill... Not every woman has support from parents/relatives,monetary or otherwise... & even if they are supportive, better we be prepared for the worse... whatever happens, life will go on...

college degree alone doesn't always give a person enough confidence...I know of enough home-makers who are well educated but are not confident enough to even go to a bank or make a bill payment or talk to an insurance guy or go to a service centre or do such other basic things on their own... Women going for work/doing business(atleast for a short period of time) definitely helps them learn social skills faster & gives them the confidence that they can survive on their own... & also to understand themselves & the real world better...whether they choose to work full-time or part-time or not to work is entirely their choice... but they need to have the confidence they can survive without other's help for basic things... And that confidence shouldn't be 'kuruttu dhairiyam'...;) To me, having the freedom to spend another person's(husb in this case)hard earned money is not financial freedom... :)

Anyway, I don't believe in discussing what is right & what's wrong... Life will teach it's lessons at it's own pace... what we believe is right/wrong is the result of the timing & magnitude of diff experiences one had in life... Some ppl are lucky enough to not to go thru very hard phases in life & so their beliefs might be completely diff from that of one who has gone to a diff exper(hard phases) in life... :)

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Originally Posted by Devar Magan

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Time to go to bed!!!

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itha post pannanumnu avasiyam illai..


anyway, "naan escapu.. aala vidungadaa saami"-nu sollavareengannu puriyuthu..

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'kEvalamillaatha' karuththukkaLai 'kEvalamillaatha' vithaththil uraikkum bright boy, you are sadly mistaken! Sleep is my well earned rest! Don't read anything else into it! :D

dev, my favourite proverb is 'don't think of the bridges you will never cross'; I am also in favour of choosing best from the 3 options:'varumun kaaththal, vanthapin kaththal, vanthapinnum kaakkaathiruththal'. FYI, one of cousins died leaving his wife a small son. My aunt & uncle, all the widow's in-laws are very kind & well-to-do as also her parents. She was a B.Sc., graduate. She went for medicine, successfully finished her degree, practised successfully in a speciality clinic, educated her to become a doctor who in due time is married. A friend of my father's had the misfortune of losing his very young, childless sil in an accident. The daughter was an arts graduate. She postgraduated & did doctorate, worked in a respectable post in the university, her second marriage was a failure but gave her a daughter whom she has brought up well & got married off standing on her own feet. Another friend of my father also saddened by the demise of his sil. The daughter was not interested in higher studies. Her father set up a tailoring shop for her & she with her tailoring skills employs many girls to make for herself a dignified life. The examples are many. What I want to emphasise is when the need arises women have the grit to face it, brave it. 'Training' is unnecessary!

Let me add: I never consider my hubby as 'another man'!!!! :wink:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

I never consider my hubby as 'another man'!!!! :wink:

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:D That should be the way :)

app_engine nice posts :)

pp maam so according to you a woman's life is the four walls called house with a family and she can do anything when needed. Her life is only to look after children and husband :huh: doesn't she have her own life? FYI family is NOT everything. you may call yourself more experienced just because you are older than many of us but that is not the truth. We also have faced and have experienced many things you may never have seen. please come out of the four walls and see the world.

Dear Menaka, I never can see my home as a jail within four walls!!! :rotfl: Nor do I remain confined within all the time!!! :rotfl: I am as happy as a bird chirping across the whole sky! :musicsmile:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

dev, my favourite proverb is 'don't think of the bridges you will never cross'; I am also in favour of choosing best from the 3 options:'varumun kaaththal, vanthapin kaththal, vanthapinnum kaakkaathiruththal'. FYI, one of cousins died leaving his wife a small son. My aunt & uncle, all the widow's in-laws are very kind & well-to-do as also her parents. She was a B.Sc., graduate. She went for medicine, successfully finished her degree, practised successfully in a speciality clinic, educated her to become a doctor who in due time is married. A friend of my father's had the misfortune of losing his very young, childless sil in an accident. The daughter was an arts graduate. She postgraduated & did doctorate, worked in a respectable post in the university, her second marriage was a failure but gave her a daughter whom she has brought up well & got married off standing on her own feet. Another friend of my father also saddened by the demise of his sil. The daughter was not interested in higher studies. Her father set up a tailoring shop for her & she with her tailoring skills employs many girls to make for herself a dignified life. The examples are many. What I want to emphasise is when the need arises women have the grit to face it, brave it. 'Training' is unnecessary!

Let me add: I never consider my hubby as 'another man'!!!! :wink:

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Tht's Y I said opinions,belifs differ based on what we see/experience... :) Though some learn to make a living after a long struggle, I believe in 'varumun kaathal'...:) BTW, tailoring skill come within the category of 'skills' I have mentioned in the other post... It's a skill which can be used readily to make money... but still one needs to be trained to master it... for ex: how to ride a bicycle-nu enna thaan book-la padichaalum(cycle-la yaeri ukkandhu, handle-a pidichittu,balance panni, pedalai midichaal cycle ooati palagidalaamnu) we need to get trained to balance on a bicycle...namma yaeri utkaarura appo adhu thannala balance aagadhu... 4 thadavai vilundhu enthirichu thaan adhai kathuppom... so adhai nalla irukkum poadhe katthukiradhu better enbadhu en ennam... already mana kashtatthil irukkumpadhu idhai katthuka vendiya kattayathula vilundhu enthirikiradhungaradhu innum kodumai...

I used the word "another person" coz I wanted to refer to parents as well as husb... when I was unmarried I had the freedom to spend my parents hard-earned money... & now I have the freedom to spend wht my husb earns... My vocab is very limited tht I couldn't find any other suitable word there though my intention was not to refer to my husb as 'another man'... :P

How long does it take learn bicycling? How many weeks to learn tailoring?

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Originally Posted by dev

[app_engine: :)

IMO, women need to learn atleast one money-making skill...be it a job or home based small business or other skills...In this fast world, you never know what will happen to the bread-winner(husb) the very next moment... Incase of any mishap, like physical disability or illness or death, she needs to be prepared to take the role of the bread-winner... aprom aludhu polambittu irukiradhula use illai... It's a basic survival skill... Not every woman has support from parents/relatives,monetary or otherwise... & even if they are supportive, better we be prepared for the worse... whatever happens, life will go on...

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:exactly: :thumbsup: It neednt be only a job or career! There R other oppurtunities open as well, u jus need to tap the right one.

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college degree alone doesn't always give a person enough confidence...I know of enough home-makers who are well educated but are not confident enough to even go to a bank or make a bill payment or talk to an insurance guy or go to a service centre or do such other basic things on their own... Women going for work/doing business(atleast for a short period of time) definitely helps them learn social skills faster & gives them the confidence that they can survive on their own...

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True but Ive noticed tat even many women who go for jobs (am taking job as a common eg. bcos it is seen as sumthing very rosy by many :roll:) lack many public-speaking/socialising skills, infact I'd say in most jobs these things cudnt be learnt anyways, as its as much sitting within 4 walls as sitting at home is (talking bout the common office-type jobs!)

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And that confidence shouldn't be 'kuruttu dhairiyam'...

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:? Abbidina enna? :oops:

I was once told by a doc tat women working in careers with odd-timings/overtime (common eg. nowadays IT/SW//BPOs) tend to suffer the most physically/mentally as women undergo mood swings due to their bodily cycles therefore working at such timings/stressful conditions tend to aggrevate their challenges.
Of course there r jobs tat r far more favourable to women. In the past women who did work took up jobs tat were mainly 'easy-going' & fixed timings. Few turned out to be in more demanding, high-profile professional careers.

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Originally Posted by app_engine

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

My belief is career women are more prone to stress & depression than women at home! They age faster, suffer more physical ailments! How dependable are your statistics if there are any?

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Well, most women that I personally know of who has suffered some form of severe depression happens to be a middle aged, home maker. (If not a regular homemaker, someone who was at that time without a job and at home). FYI, I serve in a voluntary org that deals with a lot of people, apart from my regular full-time job.

That's why I said it's a personal observation. Again, I'm not for or against the "chemical imbalance theory" for depression. There are any number of theories stating the cause for depression. However, one of the common therapy methods is to ask people to engage in "meaningful activity", which could be severely lacking in the case of someone who could be idling at home (that leads to paranoid situations, for e.g.).

I'm willing to change my opinion if there are medical stats otherwise.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

How long does it take learn bicycling? How many weeks to learn tailoring?

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katthu paarunga... theriyum...;) that too when u are already down due to some incident & are thru a difficult phase... Oru oru thadavai vilundhu enthitirikkum podhum athoda vali pala madanga theriyum!!!...BTW, how many here do you think would like to get their clothes stitched by an inexperienced tailor...There's a diff between becoming a 'tailor' & a 'good/skilled tailor'... esp for skill based work, experience does make a diff... :)

When we have an option to learn now, why wait until we are forced to...tht's my opinion... adhu evalo naal aagum,evalo easy-a irukkum,illai kashttama irukkum appadingaradhu ellam oru orutharukkum maaru padum... :)

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Originally Posted by Lambretta

[
:exactly: :thumbsup: It neednt be only a job or career! There R other oppurtunities open as well, u jus need to tap the right one.

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And that confidence shouldn't be 'kuruttu dhairiyam'...

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:? Abbidina enna? :oops:

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Yes... it can even be ur hobby...just specialise in it... even if u r not using it to make money now, it might be helpful during rough times...:)

Kuruttu dhairiyam.... hmmm... it's the kind of confidence tht we have when we pass out of college...;) We think we can do anything & everything in this world without even realising what our strengths & weaknesses are... :)

Never was I interested in learning cycling!!! But I don't have to experience everything myself to know facts !!! How many middleaged women who never learnt cycling at a younger age learning to ride mopeds straightaway right under my nose! Not even a week!

I am rather amused & bemused at this thread becoming a veritable mirror reflecting the faces, perspectives, thought patterns of our times!!!

app_engine and Dev :thumbsup:

And good to see the men supporting us with broader views and logical thinking. EllOrum nalla theLivaa irukeenga. SanthOsham :D

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Originally Posted by Roshan

app_engine and Dev :thumbsup:

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:)

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Originally Posted by dev

Kuruttu dhairiyam.... hmmm... it's the kind of confidence tht we have when we pass out of college...;) We think we can do anything & everything in this world without even realising what our strengths & weaknesses are... :)

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Ohh......ok....:ty: :)
Although Ive never been to college in my life...so 'wonder if I lack tat dhairyam...? :? :roll: :oops:

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Originally Posted by Lambretta

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Originally Posted by dev

Kuruttu dhairiyam.... hmmm... it's the kind of confidence tht we have when we pass out of college...;) We think we can do anything & everything in this world without even realising what our strengths & weaknesses are... :)

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Ohh......ok....:ty: :)
Although Ive never been to college in my life...so 'wonder if I lack tat dhairyam...? :? :roll: :oops:

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:)

The thread is becoming more and more amusing!!! A real hearty entertainer! :rotfl:

Friends,


how much can a girl earn by learning Tailoring :huh:

is that the route for all girls???

gone are the days, when u can do ur MBBS after finishing a BSC..


innum, sila peru 30 yrs munnaadi nadantha story-a sollittu irukaanga.. :lol:

chinna paiyanukku sirippaa irukku! ethanudaiya theeviramum viLanguRathilla, viLangkaLainnu theriyaRathum illa! Reminds me of the wise quote:
He who knows not what he knows is asleep; wake him. He who knows not what he knows not is a fool; shun him. He who knows, and knows that he knows is wise. Follow him.

All the instances I quoted were very well-to-do girls, who didn't have to sweat to live. They had to have some grip, some motive to pull on. A girl with a satisfactory family of husband and children will never feel a vacuum which needs to be filled up. It is strange how modern girls are chasing empty shadows!!!

Devar, :)... freeya vidunga...:)

The fast-paced world is successfully, deplorably eroding feminine traits from their nature! I am aghast at the new avatar of the fair sex! Woe to men!!!

PP ma'm, i can understand ur point that women are the crux of society and they shape generations.....so they need to be at home to make sure this duty is fullfilled......lately, we have had a shift in this thinking.......guys are as much responsible for social/cultural upbringing as much as women.......i think the homemaker term applies to men as well........

moreover being a middle class person, i cant afford to have a housewife.........ippa chennai-la oru decent veedu vanganumna minimum 35lacs-40 lacs...........for any home loan, the interest will come to 30k -40k per month.......i dont think any person, even working in IT can afford to pay 30k-40k from his salary as interest.......first of all, no bank will give loan for 35 lacs or 40 lacs unless your wife is also earning and apply loan jointly.........i'm sure 70% of IT guys who have a take home salary ranging betn 25k-50k realise my point.........house loan-kke ippadinna, how will we give the kids - education, other basic neccessities.............weekend cinema in multiplex with family will cost Rs.1500-2000 - i just cant afford to have a housewife......simple.....

my home loan point doesent mean, we shuld go after only money and forget the kids upbringing etc.....at the same time, we cannot discard money.....we have to keep a balance......guys have to share some of women's duties of upbringing and house-keeping etc, and women have to share hubby's duties of house loan and running the family comfortably..... :)

Yes, mammon rules the world! Thanx, for the much-boasted 'clarity' you show!!! The solace is there are still people left with saner priorities making their lives really happy & fulfilling!

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Yes, mammon rules the world! Thanx, for the much-boasted 'clarity' you show!!! The solace is there are still people left with saner priorities making their lives really happy & fulfilling!

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illa ma, enga appa amma kooda are looking for a housewife for me.......but i want to live in "my" house and travel in "my" car and not my fathers' house or car.........and i belong to the middle crust of economy........what should i do??? how can i lead a decent life of my choice without a working wife???

Yes, that is the problem, each one's idea of a 'decent' life!!! At the cost of what? A pure matter of priorities!!!

Peer pressure everywhere!!! Starts at school campus, follows in college & then in work places! Men succumbing to standards set by somebody other than self!!!

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Yes, that is the problem, each one's idea of a 'decent' life!!! At the cost of what? A pure matter of priorities!!!

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theres no choice ma'm :lol: ........

also, i think the women's duties must be shared by men to help achieve the happiness........i dont understand why men should be protected so much or pampered?? let them work and do some household chores too like women :roll:

innikku en siesta pOch! :cry3: kaappi tiffinaavathu paakkuREn! :wave:

all i can recollect now is,

"5-il valayaathathu,

50 thaandiyum valayaathu.. "

so, argue panni use illai.


I hope most of us except one very 'experienced', 'level-headed', 'decent' person are having a clear mind..

ithukku mela enna sonnaalum use illai :cool:

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Originally Posted by Devar Magan

Friends,


how much can a girl earn by learning Tailoring :huh:

is that the route for all girls???

gone are the days, when u can do ur MBBS after finishing a BSC..


innum, sila peru 30 yrs munnaadi nadantha story-a sollittu irukaanga.. :lol:

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Karthi,

30 varushathukku munnAdiyum there were women who were employed and could manage to raise their children in a better way than the women who chose/were forced to be home makers. And I dont think those mothers were chasing 'empty shadows'. But the relieving factor is that many elders - specially women who I meet on a day-to-day basis are quite positive about the present change. "Che enga kAlathula ippadi irunthirunthA evvaLavu nallA irunthirukkum'nu" solRa 'antha kaala' peN maNigaL palarai naan pArthirukkiREn. They never complain or keep rambling about the 'mindset' of the present generation and they are smart enought to understand how 'smart' we are :) :D

So as Dev said, free'A vidunga :)