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Nitai: This is a Forum where people of many religions, faiths and ideas come together. While you certainly have freedom of speech, faith and expression, sometimes, as is evident above, to force one opinion on everyone is not welcome. I am sure you'll recognize how insensitive this can be to people who do not subscribe to your views.Quote:
Originally Posted by a.ratchasi
Therefore kindly desist from such posts in the future, considering the wide diversity of our audience.
Nitai: A clarification of your clarification. The word "pranashyati" does not mean vanquished. It means destroyed. Therefore, Na me bhaktyah pranashyati means "My devotee never perishes".Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitai
Thanks, Badri!
Hi Friends
Let us continue discussing Mahabharatha.
Sudhaama sir and Badri can elucidate on the dharma teaching which Bhishma gave to Yudishtra on his bed of arrows.It is here that Bhishma recites the Vishnu Sahasranamam.
A good site which explains Vishnu Sahasranamam is
http://home.comcast.net/~chinnamma/
The author follows vishishta-dvaita philosophy,i guess but it is good for followers of other philosophies too.Other Tamil Vaishnavite works are also present in the website.
When Bhisma is lying on the bed of arrows, the Pandavas along with Krishna go to him and on Krishna's advise seek to learn Dharma from him. This forms a part of the Shanti Parva of the Mahabharatha. To discuss this as Viggop requests would probably take a good long time, but I am put in mind of an incident.
When Bhishma begins his discourse on Dharma, Draupadi laughs out aloud. Yudhistra and the others are scandalised that she would do such a disrespectful thing in front of Venerable Bhisma. But Bhisma asks them to hold their peace and asks Draupadi" Daughter, you would not have done something like this without reason. Why did you laugh?"
Draupadi replied, "Grandfather, that my husbands are virtuous is known to the whole world. It is because of their virtue, their adherence to Dharma that we won the war. They have no need for your lecture on Dharma. I find it funny that you are lecturing to them about Dharma, yet, you kept your mouth shut when I was being disrobed in the Kaurava court. When I appealed to you, in distress, you kept quiet. That was the time and place when your lecture and admonishing were most required. The Kauravas where the one who most required your advice.
You chose to keep quiet then, now you are lecturing to people who don't need it. Tell me, isn't this funny?"
Bhisma replied, "You are right, Panchali. But at that time, I had eaten the Kaurava food. My blood was filled with their Adharma, and I could not raise my voice. Now, after your husband Arjuna has riddled my body with his arrows, all that bad blood has drained away, and now I am in a position to speak of Dharma. You are right, your five husbands need no lesson in Dharma, yet I speak so that others may learn through them."
The discourse of Bhishma on Dharma is full of insight. In fact, as some learned and wise men have remarked, it shows us the change in Bhishma's own thought process and his own individual philosophy. As I said, since it would be too much of an effort to reproduce in toto Bhisma's discussions on Dharma, I will try and provide a synopsis as it were.
Among the important things Bhishma speaks is Truth. Here is an interesting thing in this. This same Bhisma vowed as a young man that he would remain celibate. It was the terrible vow that even gave him his name. When later on, his step-mother Satyavati suggests to him that he marry Vichitravirya's widows, he reiterates his vow and declares
"The earth may give up fragrance, and water its own flavor. Thus light may give up form, air may give up the quality of touch, the sun its light, and smoke-bannered fire its heat, ether may give up sound, the moon may give up the coolness of its rays, Indra, slayer of Vritra, may renounce his courage, the king of dharma may give up dharma, but I shall never resolve in any way to abandon the truth."
Wonderful and powerful sentiments, yet, a more careful analysis shows that he is more concerned about his own adherence to truth than the consequences of such an adherence. Even if the world be destroyed, I will stick to truth.
However, much later, mellowed down by years and experience, lying on the bed of arrows, a different Bhishma speaks,
"Speaking truth is righteous. Nothing is higher than truth. O Bharata, I shall speak to you that which is very hard to understand on Bhuloka. Truth is not to be spoken and falshood is to be spoken in a case where falsity becomes truth and truth becomes falsehood. An immature person is bewildered in such a case where truth is not firmly established. Determining truth and falsehood, one then knows morality."
He traces the thin line between Dharma and Adharma. As is evident in the war, the only person with competent knowledge on the distinction between the two was Krishna, and Bhishma follows Krishna's own examples in explaining this to the Pandavas.
He quotes 2 examples, of the hunter Balaka and the sage Kaushika to illustrate his point.
If anyone is interested in these 2 examples, let me know, I will post them seperately.
As it is, this post has become too long!!!
Continuing Bhishma's discourse on Dharma
Bhishma finally concludes saying
"One must resolve the issue of Dharma Sankata (Dharmic conundrums) by reasoning. Morality is that which prevents injury to living beings. That is the conclusion.
Morality (dharma) comes from the act of sustaining (dharana). Thus authorities say that morality sustains living beings. So that which provides such sustenance is dharma. That is the conclusion."
Although scriptures are definitely an authority on Dharma, not all situations are envisaged by them. In all such cases, the guiding principle, as explained by Bhishma, is to apply the Golden Rule:
Is this action or speech of benefit to people, or does it harm them? If it benefits, it is Dharma, if it harms then it is Adharma.
The same sentiment is also echoed by Vyasa, who declares that
"Parapokara punyaya Paapaya Parapeedanam"
To help another is Punya; to cause harm to another is Papa"
Hi Badri
Since,everything is part of Mahabharatha,I dont think it is wrong to discuss dharma fully here.It need not be done in a single post.We can take own time but let us discuss it since lot of people will benefit by it.This discussion on Bhishma's discourse will be good for this thread, i think
If anyone has objections to this and if they feel that discussing the story is better,then we can abandon the idea and continue discussing other stories in the mahabharatha.
The bhAghavataM says that there are only twelve men in the whole world who know the ins and outs of dharma in all its subtlety. These twelve are: BrahmA, the Creator; Narada, the roving sage; Lord Siva; Lord SubrahmaNya; the sage Kapila; Manu the law-giver; the boy-devotee Prahlada; King Janaka; Bhishma; King Bali; the boy-sage Suka, the reciter of the bhAgavatam; and Yama, the Lord of Death and Dispenser of Justice:
Yudhishtira asks six fundamental questions to Bhishma:
· What is the One Supreme God?
· What is the One Ultimate Resort?
· What is the One by worshipping which man can attainin everything that is good for him?
· What is the One whose praise by man will give him everything that is good for him?
· What dharma is considered to be the greatest of all dharmas?
· What is the One by the memory of which man may be released from the cycle of births and deaths