Ramayana - Another Great Epic

Dear HariKrishnan Sir
This 'newbie hubber' is given based on the number of posts in the new forum.If you cross 500 posts, you are 'senior hubber'.This is the new forum and it is heavily moderated and different from old forum.
New topics can be posted only with permission of Moderator hubbers - NOV,sbadri99,Thiru .This is to prevent new topics being opened which abuses caste and religion.

Regarding Arunachala Kavirayar's Rama Nataka Kirthanai, why cant you be the person to through its intricacies and educate other hubbers like us? ;-)

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Originally Posted by Hari Krishnan

One small query unrelated to the thread. I don't know why I am shown as a 'newbie hubber', when I have been participating in the Forum Hub from 1999. And, at the end of the page I am told that I cannot post new topics. Is this a policy adopted in the case of 'newbie hubbers' or everyone? :shock:

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Hari Krishnan: Indian History and Culture section was abused a lot and was closed down for a while to edit out obnoxious posts and also delete threads dealing with caste and other controversial topics where emotions were running high. Also, posting new threads is controlled for the same reasons. You can always propose a new topic to the moderators of this section or the administrator RR.

Dear Mr. "Hari Krishnan"

// One small query unrelated to the thread. I don't know why I am shown as a 'newbie hubber', when I have been participating in the Forum Hub from 1999.//

Very Very Very Very Very.... GLAD to see you back here... to your Old-Home....

So far this Thread-Boat was sailing haphazardly towards different directions ... even aimlessly sometimes ...

And now since You the EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT ... have joined, I am sure ...

... this Dais will become RICHER and MORE INTERESTING as well as BETTER PURPOSEFUL too

In my Opinion ... ... you well deserve to be identified as .... PRO- HUBBER .... irrespective of your age in this Forum

.. You. being a Well-knowledged Expert-Writer in the Multi-faceted areas and dimensions.

In fact ...You are NOT A NEWBIE..... but an OLDBIE... rather a SENIORBIE...

... To be precise......You are a "PROBIE"

How do we take this Ramayana thread-boat from now on?
We have to set some goals/aim on what we plan to discuss in Ramayana thread so that it benefits lot of people.

Dear HariKrishnan Sir
I read your chennaionline post where Mandodari cries over the dead body of Ravana.
She asks some very good questions as you have described.

"Have the 5 senses which you had controlled initially in your life when you did tapas hit back at you? You defeated the senses and gained boons from Shiva,Brahma but they have hit back at you by killing you.You were killed by your (lack of control of) senses and not Rama!"

Beautiful words.We have to keep the 5 senses under control always.Otherwise,they'll kill us.

How was Ravana finally killed by Rama.Reading HariKrishnan's sir in chennaionline,it is mentioned that Rama used brahmaastra to kill ravana.

I have heard a story where Ravana's power is present in his navel and Vibishana told Rama about it.Hence,Rama kills him by aiming at his navel.is this story true?

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Originally Posted by viggop

I have heard a story where Ravana's power is present in his navel and Vibishana told Rama about it.Hence,Rama kills him by aiming at his navel.is this story true?

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No. There are countless folklore, stories of pravachan-kartas, and so many others that have their relevance in their own place. You see, there is a saying in Tamil, ¡Õõ ¸¢¨¼ì¸¡Å¢ð¼¡ø ¦¾É¡Ä¢Ã¡Áý ¾¨ÄÄ ²òÐ There doubtlessly are so many enjoyable parables, involving the Ramayana characters. So far so good. But the negative part of it is, people tend to believe that it is there in Valmiki Ramayana, or Kamba Ramayana or any other Ramayana that is widely respected.

That Ravana could only be killed by Brahma-astra was informed to Rama by Mathali, the charioteer of Indra, who comes with the chariot of Indra for the last day's battle. It is Mathali who urges Rama to use Brahma-astra, which Rama was hesitating to use from the beginning. (Not so with Lakshmana. We see him using the divine missile twice in the epic. The first during the battle with Atikaya, the second son of Ravana and the second during the battle with Indrajit.

The story of Ravana's power being present in his navel is not there either in Valmiki or Kamba Ramayana. To my knowledge in other Ramayanas too.

BTW, folks, I was going through the previous pages. I see a lot of heat generated about Agni Pravesa. This is the point that is being discussed by me a bit elaborately in my ChennaiOnline Religion column, for the past three months. I have just completed the narrative portion and started examining the validity of several arguments against Sita.

In case any of you are interested, you may read the column. And raise your questions, doubts et al, so that I can handle them too.

Harikrishnan Sir
I do not understand why Rama hesitated to use brahmaastra? You have mentioned in chennaionline that ravana used even the trident of Shiva against Rama(which Rama stopped by saying an angry "hoon"). When Ravana(who is demon race and not human race) can use divine weapon, why should not Rama respond in the similar way.Rama is only responding,right?

Also, did Ravana ever use the brahmaastra? Did he know how to use it? I know Indrajit did use it.In the final battle with Ravana, did Rama exhaust all the weapons of ravana and finally left him without weapons and then used the brahmaastra against Ravana? please answer when you have time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Harikrishnan Sir
I do not understand why Rama hesitated to use brahmaastra? You have mentioned in chennaionline that ravana used even the trident of Shiva against Rama (which Rama stopped by saying an angry "hoon"). When Ravana(who is demon race and not human race) can use divine weapon, why should not Rama respond in the similar way.Rama is only responding,right?

Also, did Ravana ever use the brahmaastra? Did he know how to use it? I know Indrajit did use it.In the final battle with Ravana, did Rama exhaust all the weapons of ravana and finally left him without weapons and then used the brahmaastra against Ravana? please answer when you have time.

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Before answering your questions, I have to make one thing clear. An arrow is different from an astra. These two are not similar. An arrow is normally made of a ligther material. Mostly the arrows used by soldiers and those belonging to the 'files' were made of lighter wood for body and metal tipped. Lighter metals were used for making arrows for kings and the others come under the 'ranks', that is Commanders-in-chief Second-in-Command, wing leaders etc. It has to be remembered that arrows had to be shot from bows and had to be light in order not to lose their fillip in flight. Hundreds of varieties of arrows are described in the epics. From the ardha-chandra tipped arrow to 'palladam' a very thin variety of arrows which were used for shooting in a bunch of anything from five to hundred are described. Instead of laughing them off, one has to sit and study the details. I am collecting the details. It may even be that a separate book may be published on this subject. Who knows. God willing. :)

Use of metal arrows was a privilege of Kings and other high rankers. (Of course their arsenel included the wooden bodied arrows too.) This was essential due to the fact that making arrows with lighter metals involved technology and was a comparatively expensive affair. That is why the name of kings and others were inscribed on every arrow. The scouts moving about in the battlefiled would collect arrows and other weapons from the bodies of the dead and would pass the usable weapons back to soldiers and others. The specail arrows would be identified by names inscribed on each weapon and would go back to the appropriate person. (However, Rama's arrows are known to come back to the quiver by themselves. There is nothing to discuss more on this point of how it could have come back. We need a better understanding on the subject.)

On the other hand the divine weapons are not just arrows. The way to launch them differs very greatly from shooting an arrow. One has to intiate them with mantras. Now, I have my own views about the 'mantras' etc. The person who launches it recites the ways in which the missile is to be launched, encoded in the mantras. Remembers the steps in which the missile is to be fired, by reciting the mantras and goes about firing it. It is to be noted that every time a missile is fired, invariably the poet mentions 'thazal saarthi', that is, 'lighting it with fire - or firing it.' And our commentators write a hotch potch 'urai' saying ¸üâà ¬Ãò¾¢ ±Îò¾ À¢ÈÌ ¦ºÖò¾¢É¡ý. The arrows are not fired. They are shot with the bow. The poets speak of various weapons that issue forth from this one divine weapon, be it Varunastra, Vayuvastra, Narayanastra, Brahmastra or Brahma Siras, the supreme of all weapons. This is something similar to projectiles and other destructive instruments that spill and are thrown about all around when a bombshell bursts.

The question of divine weapons - or missiles - is to be still gone into and studied. The Mahabaratha gives more detailed account of weapons than the Ramayana. I am collecting information on this. But, what one comes to understand is astras were weapons of mass destruction. Rama was against the use of such weapons of mass destruction. He had always maintained that the use of Brahmastra and other divine weapons should be deferred in all cases. In fact, it was because Rama told Lakshmana that he must use only ordinary weapons in the battle with Indrajit, Lakshmana was precluded from the use of Brahmastra. See these verses from Kamban.

¸ñ þ¨ÁôÀ¾ý ÓýÒ §À¡ö Å¢ÍõÀ¢¨¼ì ¸Ãó¾¡ý;
«ñ½ø, ÁüÈÅý ¬ì¨¸ ¸ñ¼È¢¸¢Äý ¬¸¢,
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±ñ½õ ÁüÚ þ¨Ä; «Âý À¨¼ ¦¾¡Îô§Àý' ±ýÚ þ¨ºò¾¡ý.

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þáÁý À¢ÃÁ¡ò¾¢Ãò¨¾ô ÀÂýÀÎòÐŨ¾ô ÀüÈ¢ þÄìÌÅÛìÌî ¦º¡ýÉ - a policy decision - ¦º¡ü¸¨Çô ÀüȢ ÁüÚõ þÄìÌÅý À¢ÃÁ¡ò¾¢Ãõ ±ö¡Áø ¾ý¨Éì (þáÁý ¦º¡ýÉ ¸¡Ã½ò¾¡ø)¸ðÎôÀÎò¾¢ì¦¸¡ñ¼ ¸ðΨøÙìÌ þó¾ ÍðÊ:

To use or not to use: http://chennaionline.com/festivalsnr...eligion509.asp

He is at it again
http://www.chennaionline.com/festiva...eligion510.asp

Killing from hiding:
http://www.chennaionline.com/festiva...eligion511.asp

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Thanks Harikrishnan Sir
I was all along thinking that arrow is the english equivalent of asthra and both are launched from the bow!!! This is the impression I got from seeing the Ramanan Sagar's ramayana in TV. The way you have described asthra seems it is like a missile(liquid propelled/solid propelled).Indian army conducts separate training for commanders who have to lauch missiles!!!
So, Rama does not use divine weapons just because he does not want to kill other people.When he used brahmaastra on Ravana,i think he must have curbed its power so that only Ravana is killed and not everyone in the battle field.

In the mahabharatha, when ashwathama launches the brahmaastra against Arjuna,i think he uses the blade of grass and changes it into brahmasastra. Is this true?