Ramsri's interpretation of that scene was quite obvious I thought, but his writeup is elucidative. :thumbsup:
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Ramsri's interpretation of that scene was quite obvious I thought, but his writeup is elucidative. :thumbsup:
Another scene from Dalapathi deserves a mention - the one where Surya, Kalyani and her husband are at the temple... (Kalyani and Surya are of course, mutually unaware of each others' presence and of the blood relation that exists between them). A train horn sounds in the distance - immediately, as if by instinct, all of them turn toward the direction of the sound as the camera pans to show us how they react. The expressions on Surya's and Kalyani's faces are almost identical (we know why) and consistent with the mother-and-long-lost-son-pining-for-each-other sentiment reinforced at various points in the film.
Jaishankar's expression on the other hand, is a study in inscrutability - again, we know why - the train does not mean as much to him as it does to the other two. And yet, he presents the benevolent facade of one (in fact, the only one) who is sensitive to the turmoil they are going through, even though he himself is distanced from it... :thumbsup: , I say!
Like that other brilliant scene from Nayagan which we've discussed before (maybe elsewhere), this one too has no dialogue - which only adds to its appeal. Someone made the point earlier about how MR would never have a line of dialogue for something he could show you on screen... well, this scene is a standing example... :clap:
BTW - what was the name of Jaishankar's character in Dalapathi? Come to think of it - did he even have a name?? :confused2:
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Originally Posted by ramsri
No
Nice one ramsri. Well captured. Makes me want to revisit.
:exactly: One of the very few writers who knows the difference between writing for films and writing for radio-plays. I can think of a ten different ways in which that scene could have been ruined.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramsri
btw I don't think Jaishankar had a name in that film.
This ostensibly belongs to some other thread, but no, it belongs here. Anyway I posted this in orkut.
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Nayagan's crying scene became way too iconic, rarely a performance oriented role became that iconic, elevating Kamal to a thespian stature, and celebrated around the Country(all the more special for a tamil film) like never before, while an elementary casual viewer might underrate what I'm going to say next. It's the context of crying in that particular scene which would become a textbook for few, but for majority, operatic. Now to the film, Velu doesn't cry his heart out at every turn, he isn't broken when he faces death in different forms. Because, Velu is an animal, and a survivor, a true 'master of the game'. But only when he has an opponent...
Case in point ->
1) When his dad dies, he avenges the inspector.
2) When Vaapa (who took care of him) dies. He kills the inspector
3) when his wife Neela dies. He kills the whole Reddy family!
All of 'em are his OWN mistakes. Velu vents his frustration out when there is a perpetrator involved, but what happens when there is no one to be blamed?
When his son dies, he expresses it out with groans and self-disappointment, but this is hardly noticed with care and better perspective! Instead, we get few idiots who overused this particular moment at the expense of being a 'mimicry artist'! As we can see, when others do it, it's funny (I personally find it amusing, not funny). But when Velu naicker does it in the film, it's not!
Few more, although this is more of a comparison, (updated from my original) Will post more in coming days..
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Pudhupettai looses its grip right somewhere along the second half (final third was downright laughable.) Similarities are ample with AE, Inba's journey to become a politician is much like Kokki's journey, both being slum dwellers, Inba's marriage is broken in the end, he leaves his wife, Kokki leaves his kid and meaningful relationships with women are anything but defunct (one leaves him and the other dead - this of course, was interesting as such) Kokki kills his dad, Inba kills his brother, although for different reasons as it appears, both being difficult childhood, and bad upbringing. In both the cases, the characters are instinctive survivors who would do anything to achieve their goal, and their journey into politics ends in different ways, and their last assault is for different reasons, Kokki for revenge, and ultimate survival - ironically he ends up in a fairy tale, Inba's however is quite opposite, ambitious & opportunistic, although ending up from where he started (hence, making it cyclic, and more interesting.) What Mani does in 45 minutes (or less?) is stretched for a longer run time to nothing significant 'thematically', mainly to surface realism and offer a different narrative. Perhaps "authentic" is the word for Selva's portrayal, but the themes with which he handles is handled better by Mani, although less authentic in its portrayal. BTW, from what I see, the prostitute angle is a homage to Mani's Nayagan, and Sonia's character (and her brother) is more of a homage to De Palma's Scarface, where Al's friend marries his sister, infuriating Al to shoot him, here it's the other way around, Kokki marries his friend's sister, infuriating him to shoot Kokki, although Kokki survives. Selva has such characters to irreverence of Kokki, who use women for personal gratification.* Selva has such long sequences trying to make it comprehensive but he doesn't realize the power of obscurity. Comprehensive films are welcome, but it could really make better use of cinematic reality, that is not to spoonfeed, but use the liberty of visual narrative/terse writing! For example, a single line from Inba, indha pomblainga kitta vechukuvE kudatha, appo appo, ponnama, paarthoma, senjOma-nu thirumbiranum covers the whole point*. 50 milli sarAyathu kaaga, SarAya kadai-yE vanga kudathu!
The beauty of AE opening is its juxtaposition of three social classes in one particular context (before the focal point of the three narratives to follow,) we see a lower class (flawed) goon who never cares about 'mores' in a relationship, we see the bourgeoisie Surya asking Esha deol to come to his place, she says, kalyanathuku munnadiya, pacha paavam (the way she says it...nevermind), then we see a high-class yuppie in Siddarth who runs around Trisha, and says a very naive hippie line pittsburgh-la mottai poddalam (slightly artificial) for their future kid. He even threatens to commit suicide to impress, and prove his "love" to her, like any irresponsible kid! Irrespective of shortcomings, :notworthy:.
That was a good one, Ramsri. The framing is brilliant here. The camera moves, pans and cuts fluidly as accorded by a virtuoso. (The scene can be watched over here.) Mani's screenwriting is of the topmost order. The other day, in a different thread, I used 'Maniesque' writing to mean the right opposite of 'expositional.' That's exactly what his writing is like.
In this aspect, I don't think there is a definitive predecessor to him in Tamil cinema. Mahendran or Balu Mahendra surely had subtly written scenes, scenes with less dialogue (or even, no dialogue) but the sparser dialogue still were significantly expositional. But, Mani took it to the next level. With Mani Ratnam, the scenes didn't speak to the audience at all. The audience was put in the scene. You hardly need words to grasp a situation if you're in it (in real life). In many cases, his dialogue is even simply tangential to the scene. Giving some wonderful moments for Tamil cinema.
While I think there are far better examples to elicit the greatness of Mani's writing than thaLapathi (not a huge fan of the film though I really do like it), I think thaLapathi posed a challenge to Mani's writing skills in an obtuse way. Before coming to that, let me quote Prabhu Ram as I'm going to pick my polemic from there. And, for once, in the appropriate thread. :)
Funny you should say that, Prabhu Ram. The way I see it (after having revisited the film sometime back), I think there are many such scenes in thaLapathi which are all but destined to be ruined. And, Mani diligently tries to pull it out of the rut every time. Not that he doesn't manage to succeed, but the result isn't as sparkling as it ought to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
Now, I don't mean to be hyper-critical of the film. It's a finely made film, the performances are superb (never mind the overly stiff and silly Arjun), the craft is outstanding (even by Mani's standards), the music is sublime. Not to forget the iconic scenes in the film which are stuff of the legend. But, the sheer content and the way it's rendered brings down the film. Many of the film's parts are too melodramatic and over-the-top that it best suits a no-holds-barred kitsch treatment. And, yet, Mani places these scenes in his world. And, the result is a weird concoction of the subtle and the over-the-top. Mani's dialogues, even if sparse, tends to work like a sledgehammer. ("unna mARi enakkoru aNNan irundhurundhA, nI poRandhappavE engamma unna vitteRinjiruppAnga." Really! Rajini stands out in this scene nevertheless.)
Honestly evaluating, I think Mani tried to evoke the mythical angle by making it like it "happens" in myths. Like in one of those scenes, Devaraj talks to the newborn daughter of Banu Priya in her house, "idhu sUryA, unakku enna vEnAlum kekkalAm. illa'nnu solla mAttAn!" But the result frankly is somewhat unrewarding.
Thalapathy's dialogues are often saved by Mani's direction (from the performance he extracts, and not to mention the superlative cinematography, music.)
It's a spontaneous reaction indeed, nuanced and apt!Quote:
"unna mARi enakkoru aNNan irundhurundhA, nI poRandhappavE engamma unna vitteRinjiruppAnga." Really! Rajini stands out in this scene nevertheless.
and,
But it offers an unique experience which I cherish and love! :)Quote:
Many of the film's parts are too melodramatic and over-the-top that it best suits a no-holds-barred kitsch treatment. And, yet, Mani places these scenes in his world. And, the result is a weird concoction of the subtle and the over-the-top.
And Thanks for the clip, Sir!