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. BLUNDERS of BHEESHMA... at various Stages...
... which mainly caused Mahabharatha.?
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. BLUNDERS of BHEESHMA... at various Stages...
... which mainly caused Mahabharatha.?
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Dear Sudhamma SIr
welcome back, after a Long time, this thread will be enlightened indeed!!!
Can some one please tell me, why 'Pasupathastra' attained by the pennance of Arjuna towards Maheshwar was NEVER used in the war??
Can some one pls verify the above statement and explain why it was not used?, Many thanks
Raghuji
Arjuna never applied Pasupatha Astra during the war .
To his conscience, he always kept DIVINE WEAPONS , not to be applied at any point of time.
This was his principle, I believe.
Even the counter Brama siras which he fired against Aswathama ( after the war ) was to neutralize the bramasiras fired by Aswathama
NekeeraR JiQuote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
But , in Mahabharth it is said that Lord Krishna deliberatley made Partha not 2 use Pasupathstra cos of it's pwers to Destory the entire Cosmos!
This is also mentioned in Shivpurana,....
Raghuji
Pasupatha Astra was never used in Mahabarath war.
Infact, well before the war, when Sri Parasurama was fighting at the behest of Amba , Bhishma was about to use it but it was prevented by an anonymous call from the skies .
Your query :
The same Arjuna also worshipped Lord SHiva and obtained that divine astra , only to apply it under extrodinary circumstances.
Even while fighiting against Karna, he didnt apply.
Can some one tell me what happened to Vidura aftter the war?
I believe he went to the forest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
Ok, thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by bok
Nakeerar avare,
Wonderful, I didn't know such a thread exists on Indian History & Culture. Well, this is a story reading thread. I enjoy reading historics.
Raghu,Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
Vidura took sanyasam and went to the forest in Nirvanam. I believe it to be before the war itself but am not sure.
But after the war, I remember Kunti devi, Gandhari and Dhritharashtran taking up sanyas and moving to the forest to join Vidura in tapas.
Thank you, Have you read my other threads like 'Ramayan -another great epic', and '63-Gnyanmarhal',...etc in this section ?Quote:
Originally Posted by leosimha
//dig//Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
Hi Raghu,
No, I am reading one by one. I will keep everybody posted on those topics also.
//dig//
Nakeeran,
No praise can be too high for Ur posts on the day-to-day happenings of the mahabharatha war.
It was a monumental effort on ur part.
Splendid work. Congratulations.
Please keep up the good work.
can some one pls tell me, what excatly happend after the pandavas escaped from the candle palace? :confused2:
Hi RaghujiQuote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
U mean, the palace of wax ?
If yes :
They all were roaming in disguise until they found a village where a wicked asura was eating one member of a family everday. As per his conditions, one person should be sent to him everyday for food & he will eat him. Bhima bailed the villagers out by killing that Asur.
Then they continued to live in disguise until the swayamvar of Draupadhi was announced. Arjuna ( along with Bhima ) in disguise appeared in that hall & won that event.
Hope you know what happened after that .
Vartaaaaaaaa.
:D
Hi Raghu, Nakeeran, Sudhaama Sir, Viggop, Badri, Hari Krishnan Sir
and all the others that have well contributed to this thread...
Finally I have finished reading the 73 pages of this thread! And again is it happened with the Ramayana thread most of my questions have been answered.
Mainly three things kept coming to my mind whenever I was thinking about Mahabharatha:
1. Gambling:
How can a king lose a kingdom by gambling? Is it fair for the people ? For his family?
--> Those questions were well answered by Badri sir saying that one of the purpose of Mahabharatha was to show what gambling could lead to....
2. Draupadi:
My second question (simply put) is: How can 5 brothers marry one woman? This is quite disturbing for me... Would anyone please help me on this? Sri Rama's Avatar emphasized the 1 man/1 woman concept... this is happening after Ramayanam... So how can Sri Krishna allow/support this?
3. Dharma/Adharma during the war:
Krishna pushed the Pandavas to defeat their opponenets using in some cases "unfair means"... Is it normal for a God to do so?
--> Here also I think I got the answer... "adharma has to be fought using adharma" as even Sri Krishna did it. But what a contrast with Sri Rama....
Ramayanam and Mahabharatha are quite contrasting on such few points...
Around page 54 of this thread, Pizzalot raised a few points... For some of them Badri Sir answered them but there are still some left to be answered... Can some knowledgeable person help us by answering those points?
Vaz
Give me some time, i can answer 1 & 3 but 2 that puzzles me as well, in fact i find this the MOST disgusting thing ever, yet the pandavas are HAILED like anything
Hi Raghu,
No probs... I will wait for your post!
Thank you again for creating such intersting topics!
Addition to my questions regarding Draupadi:
In our culture a brother's wife is supposed to be the equivalent of a mother... Is this concept recent, i.e. it was not the case during Mahabharatha?
Please Sudhaama Sir, Badri Sir, Hari Krishnan Sir... could any of you enlighten us regarding the whole Draupadi "issue"?
Vasanth.
>>1. Gambling:
How can a king lose a kingdom by gambling? Is it fair for the people ? For his family? <<
Yudishtar agreed to every conditions of Shakuni maama, so as LAW ABIDING king, he had NO choice but to OBEY Shakuni maama. but the MORAL behind this is GAMBLING is ADDICTIVE, one will loose his mind and loose everything, this is what happened to PANDAVAS!!!
Yudhishtar gambled everything to win, so that he can KEEP his pride, and he failed
lessons learnt : STAY AWAY FROM ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCES and ACTS, such as TOXINS
(alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine...etc) and acts like GAMBLING etc etc.....
>>3.Here also I think I got the answer... "adharma has to be fought using adharma" as even Sri Krishna did it. But what a contrast with Sri Rama.... <<
No, Sri Ram also used adharma , he killed Vali by standing behind him and shooting an arrow, this is YUTH ADHARMA
correct GOURAVAS could not be DEFEATED by following the terms and Conditions of a WAR, when they had WARRIORS like KARNA, PITHAMA BHISHMA, DRONARCHARYA, while the PANDAVAS had ONLY ARJUNA, the entire PANDAVA clan dependent hugley on PARTHA
GOURAVAS never used any adharma EXCEPT the killing of ABHIMANYU
Hi Raghu,
Thanks for your reply...
Regarding Sri Ram killing Vaali from behind I remember that a fitting reply was given by Sri Ram on why he did it...
So I feel that somehow it has been justified...
Can someone provide us with the answers Sri Rama gave to Vaali?
But in Mahabharatham, maybe that shouldn't be our approach... i.e. find justifications for the Adharmic ways that were used by the Pandavas... maybe those shouldn't be considered as individual events but rather part of the global picture to achieve a Greater Good...
So our approach itself should be different based on whether we are looking at the Ramayana or at the Mahabharatha.
Each individual event from the Ramayana can be "justified"
whereas the same cannot be said of the Mahabharatha except if we look at it from a global perspective (Pandavas had to win the war whatever the cost)....
In Ramayana the target and the way to achieve it are important whereas in Mahabharatha only the target is important whatever the means...
Hi Vaz,
As and when you have some time, please go through this, thanks
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=4611
Hi Raghu,
have started to go through it...
So nobody to enlighten us on the Draupadi "issue"??
Vasanth.
Vaz,
Obviously , Draupadhi getting married to 5 men is the most disgusting thing to happen & probably the worst precedent set in the great epic Mahabaratha. Whatever may be the reasons behind it , its absolute nonsense & adding fuel to the fire, the instructions came from another woman >>> Kunti , the mother of Pandavas !!
Wonder how Srikrishna was watching all these nonsense.
I don’t see any rationale behind this act of Pandavas. Its an insult on womanhood
totally agreed...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
I feel this MORE disgusting than what thutchathanan did to draupadhi !!!!
oh, so Polygamy is not disgusting? One man getting married to many women is ok? Arjuna was married to so many women, and yet none of you have stated that as being denigrating to womanhood!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
Nakeeran, I didn't think you would such a male chauvinist?
In fact, polygamy would be an insult to womanhood! While the woman remained married to just one man, the man had the liberty of marrying several!
In fact, if anything, Polyandry was some sort of women empowerment, breaking the traditional mold of being treated as a mere object to be enjoyed and the more powerful the man, the more such objects he could have!
Both are equally to be denounced, if you come to that! But before pronouncing judgment, please don't confuse yourself with time. Please remember, the Mahabhartha did not happen in the 21st Century, and is therefore not bound by the same set of laws that we are used to.
Leave aside whether I am a male chauvnist or etc ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
I dont think there was any precedent to that Draupadhi issue even during Mahabarath or Ramayan days. Her case was the first & unique of its kind ! :shock: No way, it can be justified . :evil:
Veteran Malayalam writer MT Vasudevan Nair's beautiful novel randamuzham is a retelling of the Mahabaratha from the perspective of Bheema. It will be enjoyed if one grants the author his artistic liberty.
There he subtly hints that the Kunti very much new that it was girl they had brought home when she asked the Pandavas to 'share'. MT paints Kunti as someone for whom winning the kingdom and keeping it united was the paramount agenda. And this was the reason why she got all of them to marry Draupadi.
The novel is a poignant retelling of the highly emotional and sensitive Bhima, who is underrated by everyone, including Draupadi, whom he loves to distraction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
that is EQUALLY DISGUSTING :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
even Sri Krishna had so many women :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Raghu Sir
There is a difference in the way Arjuna or Krishna had followed in having multiple wives
In both the cases, the women willingly got married but not the way in Draupathi. SHe was IMPOSED on this sad thing .
Oh, so you think all women were married away on their own free will? The only woman who loved Krishna and wanted to marry him was Rukmini. She even sent him a love letter, and wanted him to come and show his strength and marry her. All the others were given away by their respective parents/guardians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
None of the women had any choice over who they were marrying or whether they were getting married to the man as his 4th or 5th or 6th wife!
:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
This very hypocrisy I have been pinpointing to some people in vain, though not in Mahabaratham context (latest case in point, the movie Uyir).
Hi Badri :wave:
yes nakeern, for everything we do in life be it bad or good, we will always have reason to back up what we have done is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
VERY SAD :cry:
let's 4get about Draupadi issue, i think it is useless to discuss about that. now coming back to the GREATEST character KARNA
1) During Draupadi's swayamvaram, all the kings would be present to display the archery skills inorder to marry here, pandavas would be here in the disguise of Bhramins.
all the kings would fail to lift the bow it self, let alone fire the arrow, but karna would lift up with ease , attache the arrow to fire the target, at the moment Draupadi will INSULT KARNA, by saying only chatriya should take part not saarthi's son, is this not an INSULT???
Sri Krsihna and Balaram would be present in the saba with sealed lips!!!:evil:
this may be th reason why KARNA kept quiet while Draupadi was being seduced !
<<digression>Quote:
Originally Posted by Madh@va
AR! New avatar?
</end digression>
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.Draupadi is honoured as PATHNI.!!
Forget Draupadi... Paanjali so soon?... Why so much in a hurry.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
I am patiently waiting for all others to speak out whatever they have got to say on this Unique Character... of Indian Epic..
...uncomparable to any in the World Literature and Epics.
We have already discussed in detail... about two years back... on this character.
Dear Raghu, will you please search and provide that link of...
...MY Analytical POSTINGS on Draupadi (Especially my detailed Reply to "Thiru")... here for the Reference of all.?...
... before I proceed furtheron to say a lot more... on that AYONIJA.
...INTERESTING and THOUGHT-PROVOKING... in the present Age too.!!
For the present.. I mention one point... Draupadi is honoured as PATHNI ...
... although the Common wife of Five brothers. How?
Because in bed she was dealing with only one particular Husband amongst the Five... for each year by turn.
That is how she could have Five different Children...
...identifying its specific Father.!!
.
Digression
Indeed! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Badri
End of Digression
Sudhaamaji, I have a query. Was not Yudhisthira equated as the fatherly figure to the remaining 4 brothers? As such, should not his wife seen as a motherly figure to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madh@va
Nowhere in Bhaaratham, Yudhishtra was addressed or treated by his younger brothers... as FATHER to them.
True to his Family-status as Eldest brother... he was given the highest respect and command...
...conforming to the Norms of the Indian Society in that Puranic age.
Besides.. he was one of the Husbands of Draupadi, their Common wife...
..which position was equally maintained... as per Dharma Sasthras.
... I have already dealt on this aspect under this thread... about two years back.
I wonder and feel pained to see some hubbers.. commenting loosely on her character and chastity, womanhood and all such personal image factors about that Heroine of the Great Epic.
We have to remember... that she was an AYONIJA... who was not by Family way... from the Human-womb...but...
a divine-birth emanated from Homa-Fire.
She is worshipped as the Fire-Goddess...Draupadi Amman in some villages.
...They say she is very powerful... I have personally witnessed some miraculous events..
...INCREDIBLE... but True.!!
How she happened to marry Five Husbands... apart from the Kunthi pertinent episode...
... is another INTERESTING factor, many do not know, nor may remember...
..which is an IMPORTANT LESSON for Mankind...in ALL RESPECTS...for ever...
...on which I have already analysed in detail.
Why she suffered...UNDUE...? How?... is the point we have to think over practically...
It is another IMPORTANT LESSON for the posterity.
Even though a divine birth, wedded to five INVINCIBLE great warriors...
... she miserably suffered to the WORST for even an ordinary, common woman.....Why?..
All because of her making on her own...
... which is an Eternal Lesson from Bhaaratham...
What were her such Mistakes.?.. rather BLUNDERS.?
..Applicable to ANYBODY.. of any Era... Present and Future too.!!
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Mr. Sudhama
I think you are over glorifying Draupadhi . IMO, Draupadhi was another normal human being for :
1.Having laughed at Duryodhana when he was the guest of honour for their newly constructed palace ( by Mayan )
2.Having denied Karna when he also participated in that skill of archery which was a pre condition to marry Draupadhi.
Duryodhana, after all, is a prince & his Father is an iconic figure, truly a revered one >>> Dridrashtra, considered the Father figure by even Pandavas. I believe, she passed comments like >>> son of a blind man is also blind when Duryodhana slipped & fell on a mirage ( pl clarify if its true ) If she had really uttered such words, well, she deserves much more harsher treatment. No man ( be it Nakeeran or the prince Duryodhana ) will absorb such provocative teasings . DEFINITELY , NOT THE WAY TO TREAT YOUR GUEST.
On her comments against Karna >>> I will not marry a Suta putra >>> If she had such reservations, she should have expressly laid down conditions well before the event so that Karna would not have participated that test. Having made an entry and also for having successfully lifted the invincible bow also, Karna certainly deserves some fair treatment.
Its altogether another tale that Draupadhi accepted Arjuna ( who actually appeared in disguise )
May you pls explain why she was so haughty ?
She doesn’t deserve to be treated like a Goddess . For someone who has so much disparity on caste, she doesnt deserve this much elevated status.
I would go one step further >>>>
Becaz of her comments on Duryodhana , he was furious to give a befitting revenge on her & this all culminated to that dice game & subsequent disrobing .
Karna was equally agitated & was upset with her for having passed such comments & also treated with unfairness. He was equally vengefull when she was dragged to the rajyasabha .
though I dont vouch for their misdeeds, the act of Draupadhi one both the occasions, strongly condemnable
Exactly :exactly: :exactly: :exactly:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nakeeran
QUESTION OF THE DAY
If Kshatriyas WERE the only one for the COMPETITION, how come arjuna was allowed??? he was in DISGUISE as a Bhramin, no one knew the pandavs TRUE identity except Lord Krishna? so how come Arjuna was allowed by Draupadis Father to Participate in the competition ???