IR's composing technique

tvsankar, I havent even read that article yet as I dont have access to AV. So please spare us your senseless comments :-)

Kiru, Please go ahead with your postings, i really liked your analysis of 'thendral kaatre....'Tabala Raaja! Lets continue...

vijayr, Come on Sir, so what all of IR's techs have been discussed in detail millions of times here!! Some of us were not around that time, IR fans love to talk about his songs zillion times, same stuff,old stuff, new stuff... every time we find something new & excited. Enjoy music!!

vijay,the discussion is getting fuzzy. Lets answer straight questions, shall we?
1. There is a strong suggestion that MSV did atleast 1000 movies across forums. If I remember right, he himself said 1700 in the link in old responses
2. If so, where are the 500 exceptional albums for 30% non-junk rate?
3. List out the 100 exceptional albums yo u think. It is not a question of convincing me but yourself. You dont know how many albums MSV did. You are guesstimating. When asked to provide a list of MSV movies , you said you have to refer to links or old DF-ers will provide, if they were. Now you say you can reel off 100 off your head. Why dont you reel off?

Okayy, dont respond to any of these above.Let me get specific as I see that you tend to fudge issues if I don get specific

Can you come up with a reliable list for 1963 and mathematically calculate the junk rate for me? I didnt want to get this specific but you are forcing me by fudging issues.
BTW, why is it difficlt for you to accept that of all the movies released in 1963, even Saravanan would struggle to come up with how many movies MSV did. If so, how are you so sure that major % of what MSV did that year is non-junk?

digression:

rajdes, I dont see anything "fuzzy" about my reply. Like I said, I can come up with a list easily but I see it mostly as a futile exercise. I posted a link for MSV's discography from pazhaya paadal pakkam earlier. I am not sure if you saw it.
http://tfmpage.com/ppp/vr.html

(the links at the top)

If you have tamil fonts you can view movies and list them and we can analyze.

Another list here that actually compiles all movies released year by year
http://www.intamm.com/movies/movieli...2%80%93%201996

Shouldnt be difficult to isolate MSV movies in 1963.

I have also posted links to discussions earlier where the general consensus was that MSV did 350-400 movies and most of which are listed in the discography.

Pl continue in Hit rate of TFM MDs thread.

Folks, once upon a time on tfmpage there were really good people from whom I could learn something. I did
did credit rjay earlier for this in this thread. Most of film music knowledge was gleaned from such
individuals here. I have interacted quite a bit with rjay (who got me learning mixing with n-track) privately and havetalked to Srikanth over the
phone few times. Srinath was the one who got me noticing the basslines. I am thankful to these folks.
What I am writing here is all this knowledge I gained formatted to suit this discussion there. I am also generalizing the techniques so as to be manageable for a discussion. So let me get
to another post relevant to this topic.

Almost all MDs use a few idioms (or negatively put - a formula)to build songs. These idioms could be their own or somebody else's or something common. A good MD will create more idioms and use large number of ones. The ostinato idiom is something that is widely prevalent in the 20th century

An ostinato is sequence of notes repeated/looped. IR has used his technique to build light classical/popular melodies.
Listen to the two examples below

1. mazhai varudhu kudai kondu
2. poongkaaviyam pesum oviyam.

The pallavis are orchestrated through ostinato's. IR strictly follows the pallavi/charanam format.A charanam is usually the body of the song. It is like pasta as main course after eating various fancy appetizers. A real indian melody is better backed by a indian taala vaadyam and IR switches to tabla for the charanams (we'll talk later how this was an opportunity for ARR, now lets just note the composing technique alone)

IR always used tabla for classical/semi-classical based songs (there are exceptions to this generalization as well). As mentioned earlier, it suits indian melodies better (tabla is a compromise in film music for mridhangam/ghatam classical arrangement).
In these kind of songs, chords are kept to minumum and only light harmony notes are used. Serious WCM orchestration is used only in the interludes, sometimes without an obvious WCM flavor.Bass lines are used mainly only to highlight the rhythm/taalam. (Vice versa, when other orchestration techniques are being used, the beat pattern is left simple/looped and the chords/bass lines are laid over this rhythm pattern).

Listen to the example

1. sindhiya venmani sippiyil muththachu

In this songs, there are only 3 nadais use. One for the pallavi, which has another tabla overlaidfor just novelty. A slowed down version for the first part of the charanam, the same nadai as in the pallavi (when melliya noolidai) and another one when it starts as alliyum killiyum. THe strings backing for a subpart in the first part of the charanam is also a standard feature

vijayr, why shouldn't I defend IR when u can sing bhajanai to MSV etal at the cost of IR?
"Now that he has retired from TFM he can sing, dance or play cricket or do whatever he wants:-) The point is, when he was the numero uno and TFM MD he didnt do all that. " - when did he announce that he is retiring from film music? Unlike MSV who acts full length in serials and movies , IR just appeared in one or 2 scenes and so what? when MSV can cash in on his popularity and act, why not IR? Iam talking about what is MSV doing musically these days and not about his resting on past laurels
app_engine does not collectively represent IR fans. I can discern between MSV, VK,GKV. SG could never really ape IR as his interludes and heavy bass were give aways. Where as he has composed like MSV in many songs like "unnai ethanai murai paarthaalum" , "kalyana ramanukkum", " aval oru pachai kuzhandhai" and sometimes the outcome was much better than what MSV did . VK also gave some superb melodies which was far better than what MSV gave like "unnidam mayangugiren" , "gangai nadhiyoram", "oraayiram karpanai", "vaazhvil sowbaaghyam" etc .
Why do we have to care about what he says in interviews? We all know he is full of contradiction. His work speaks for him.
The professional ethics of NOT ONLY IR , but few other older MDs should be questioned too for they too have their share of junks.
Singling out IR alone is mischievous and ulterior .

sorry, I forgot the digression tag

posting something relevant now - I felt his tabla usage was innovative in his few songs for erotic situation Take "raja rani jackie", "en deham amudham"( Oru Odai Nadhiyagiradhu) , "Paadhi kaLin mayakkam" (Shankarlal). The tabla had overloaded meaning than what it is usually used for. I also recollect Gangai Amaran's
"vandhanam en vandhanam" from Vaazhve maayam