// whr is Vasanathukku Vasanam thread ... searched but could not find it
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// whr is Vasanathukku Vasanam thread ... searched but could not find it
since VV thread is missing & no body replied.. i'll start a new thread when i feel like asking a vasanam
http://www.imdb.com/list/-vrlQwkSUhY/
List of Tamil films inspired from world movies
I've asked this before, but I will again... what's with Ameer Sultan and Aadhi Bhagavan? Why is taking lightyears for him to wind up this flim? PV was back in 2007! So much promise in that flim, but it's been disappointing to see no flims from him after that. Even the so called snail-speed Bala has given two films in this time span. Ivaru ennnana hero-va nadichuttaaru, item song la guest appearance nu timepass pannitrikkaaru! (even Ravi had 2 to 3 flims in this perid, right). mai thadavi paathu edhaachu sollunga pa.
http://i.indiaglitz.com/tamil/news/d...rs300112_1.jpg
A press meet was organized yesterday (January 29) by the Directors' Union who announced their new wage structure. The meet was headed by Ameer who is the secretary of the union, in the presence of other union members.
As per the new structure if a film is stalled the director should be paid his salary of Rs 10 lakh and work right after signing a deal with the film's producer.
According to the new wage structure a director should be paid Rs 1000 and Rs 1200 if he is working within the city and outside the city respectively. For joint directors its Rs 500 and Rs 600 and for assistant directors its Rs 400 and Rs 500 depending on whether the work is within or outside the city.
Ameer currently has work on 'Aadhi Bhagavan' pending where he has Jayam Ravi and Neetu Chandra in the lead. As an actor, he has rural entertainer 'Annakodiyum Kodiveeranum' with ace director Bharathiraja.
http://www.indiaglitz.com/channels/t...cle/77316.html
நமது திரைப்பட கலைஞர்கள், சினிமாவுக்கு வருவதற்கு முன் பலர். பல்வேறு தொழில்களில், பணிகளில் ஈடுப்பட்டிருக்கிறார்கள்.யார் யார் எந்தெந்த தொழிலில் ஈடுபட்டிருந்தார்கள்.
http://newyarl.com/fullview.php?id=NzY1Nw%3D%3D
ஜெமினி கணேசன்
போட்டோ உதவி பேராசிரியர்
ஸ்ரீகாந்த் (மூத்த நடிகர்)
அமெரிக்க து£தரக அலுவலக அதிகாரி
ஏ.வி.மெய்யப்பன்
சைக்கிள் கடை
வி.எஸ்.ராகவன்
பத்திரிகையாளர்
ராகவன்
சுங்க இலாகா அதிகாரி
ஆனந்தராஜ்
சாராய வியாபாரம்
சிவக்குமார்
ஓவியர்
ரஜினிகாந்த்
பஸ் கண்டக்டர்
ஜெய்கணேஷ்
காய்கறி வியாபாரம்
நாகேஷ்
ரயில்வே குமாஸ்தா
கே.ஆர்.ஜி.
சிட்பண்ட்ஸ்
பாண்டியன்
வளையல் கடை
விஜயகாந்த்
அரிசி கடை
ராஜேஷ்
பள்ளி ஆசிரியர்
ஆர்.சுந்தர் ராஜன்
-பேக்கிரி கடை
பீட்டர் செல்வக்குமார்
ரயில்வே அதிகாரி
பாக்யராஜ்
ஜவுளிக்கடை
அஜீத்
டூ வீலர் மெக்கானிக்
ரகுவரன்
உணவு விடுதி
பூர்ணம் விஸ்வநாதன்
வானொலி அறிவிப்பாளர்
அமோகா
ஹோட்டல் போட்டோசப்ஷனிஸ்ட்
பாரதிராஜா
மலேரியா ஒழிப்பு இன்ஸ்பெக்டர்
டெல்லி கணேஷ்
ராணுவ வீரர்
மேஜர் சுந்தர்ராஜன்
அக்கவுண்டென்ட்
பாலச்சந்தர்
அக்கவுண்டென்ட்
புலவர் புலமைப்பித்தன்
பள்ளி தலைமையாசிரியர்
கே.விஜயன்
ரயில்வே ஒர்க்ஷாப் ஊழியர்
சாருஹாசன்
வக்கீல்
விசு
டி.வி.எஸ்.பணியாளர்
தலைவாசல் விஜய்
ஓட்டல் பணியாளர்
மோகன்
வங்கி ஊழியர்
ராஜீவ்
ஓட்டல் கேட்டரிங்
எஸ்.வி.சேகர்
மேடை நாடக ஒலி அமைப்பாளர்
தியாகராஜன்
இசைத்தட்டு விநியோக பிரதிநிதி
பாண்டியராஜன்
பார்க்காத வேலை,தொழில் இல்லை
ஏ.எஸ்.பிரகாசம்
போட்டோ பேராசிரியர்
பெரியார்தாசன்
போட்டோ பேராசிரியர்
கவிஞர் வைரமுத்து
சட்ட மொழிபெயர்ப்பு துறையில் மொழி பெயர்ப்பாளர்
முக்தா சீனிவாசன்
அலுவலக டைப்பிஸ்ட்
நடிகை காஞ்சனா
ஏர் ஹோஸ்டஸ்
கமலாகாமேஷ்
மெல்லிசை பாடகி
வடிவுக்கரசி
ஹோட்டல் போட்டோசப்னிஸ்ட்
சுஹாசினி
உதவி ஒளிப்பதிவாளர்
சரத்குமார்
பத்திரிகை அலுவலக நிர்வாகம்
இந்து
தொலைக்காட்சி அறிவிப்பாளர்
ஃபாத்திமா பாபு
தொலைக்காட்சி அறிவிப்பாளர்
டைரக்டர் வசந்த்
குமுதம் பத்திரிகை நிருபர்
டைரக்டர் கார்வண்ணன்
ஆட்டோ டிரைவர்
தயாரிப்பாளர் கே.டி.குஞ்சுமோன்
லேடீஸ் ஹாஸ்டல் வாட்ச்மேன்
டைரக்டர் சேரன்
தொழிலாளி (சிம்சன்)
தயாரிப்பாளர் ஏ.எம்.ரத்தினம்
விஜயசாந்தியின் மேக்கப்மேன்
தயாரிப்பாளர் சிவசக்தி பாண்டியன்
இங்கிலிஸ் எலக்ட்ரிகல் வாட்ச்மேன்
பாடலாசிரியர் பழனிபாரதி
ஆனந்தவிகடன் போட்டோப்போர்ட்டர்
edho oru thread miss aagara madhiri irukku
so, both Funny things & Shocking Things threads were closed / moved out of hub..
hmm.. i save 10 mins per log in
In the opening credits of Aangalai Nambathe, the story is credited to Stella Bruce and the direction to KS Ravikumar.
In the final shot of the movie, the story/screenplay/dir is credited to "T. Alex Pandian".
Why?
one question..
tune for words | words for tune
from musician pov,
composing a tune for already written verses is easier no?
bala/others, pls come in...
pr/others pls give the song writer pov, if writing for tune or writing without tune is easier...
SS,
Interesting question.
Since I've written kavidhai's once upon a time, let me try to explain why it's better to have mettu first, for great listening pleasure :-)
Though the kavingar can have a lot more creativity in subject matter / uvamai / words etc when he is not restricted by an existing melody, he/she is STILL restricted by rules relating to timing / sandham / structure, if it had to have music added to it (and not totally free form, like pudhukkavidhai / vasana kavidhai etc). On top of this, there are always grammatical restrictions, linguistic restrictions etc that limit the permuations / combinations in word play anyways. (For example, you cannot write 'pAtti vadai sutta kadhai' as 'pAtti vadai sutta nari' or 'pAtti kAkkA sutta vadai' etc :lol:)
So, adding an "additional constraint" of an existing melody need not totally cripple his imagination. OTOH, though there are some restrictions in melody making also (certain arrangements of notes - even though musical notes - will be called 'noise' and not mettu), the permuations / combinations are infinite :-) To give a poem and ask the MD to fit in a melody will severely restrict creativity (though at times it can be circumvented by stretching a syllable here and there or adding la-la-lA kind of humming etc).
My vote is always for mettu first & pAttu next :-)
For a lyricist, no tune means he/she can let their imagination run wild
Ditto for a musician.
has been proven again and again that writing tunes for lyrics brings forth the best in songs.
of course in the hands of a reasonably capable lyricist.
writing lyrics to tune will result in maane thEne, naanE veenE kind of insipid songs :lol:
app,
i agree on the tune first, words next...
pls write on tune for already existing words...
:lol: on paatti sytta medhuvadai
nerd..
i agree a musician will hav freedom to create when the paper is white...
like he can come up with different tunes in different ragas, etc.,
which is easy? - is my question..
yes but not all songs can be balanced on tune and words right...Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
a song can be tune heavy or word heavy based on the situation....
if u take a 'namdhanamdha namdhanamdham... namdhanamdham' or 'nivedhaa' song, aint they beautiful?
are you donning solomon papiah role here vadivel? :think:
visayam therinjukkalaamnu dhaan topic start panen nov...Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
namakku thonuradha sonna dhanae adhu sari thappunu naalu peru edutthu solluvaanga... apdi ennoda abiprayattha sonen... thappa illayanu neenga dhana sollanum...
Like I tried to explain in my post, a musician can let the imagination a lot more wilder : 7+5 notes per octave (7 white keys sa-ri-ga-ma-pa-dha-ni and 5 black keys, the sharp / flats of the keyboard, per octave) and at least 5 ocatves within vocal range - means the mettu can use for each next note "factorial 60" possibilities :shock: Ofcourse, all the combinations won't be music; but, even if we throw a lot of them away as noise, still it's a staggering asura eN! And, you don't have ANY kind of restrictions as to "how many notes should be there for the first bar" (unless you're hell-bent on creating a melody on a specific rAgA). e.g. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
Lyricist, as explained by 'vadai sutta pAtti', cannot outrun the wildness of musician, by any stretch of imagination :-) His limitations are imposed by the language grammar and thALakkattu etc (even if there's no pre-existing melody).
"matterukku meter & meterukku matter" (phrase used by MSV-Kavingar combo) both have brought great songs, when the lyricist & MD are capable. So, if you go by past history of TFM, one cannot prove either one is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
What is definitely true is creativity will be max if music is not required to have words at all (e.g. symphony & other instrumental forms) and poem is not required to have music at all (countless literature) :-)
The moment one of them has to fit to the other, there'll be limits / restrictions imposed and one way or other need not be absolutely better or absolutely mAnE thEnE :-) It will be decided by the creativity of the artist(s), level of colloboration, particular day's frame of mind, other external factors / compulsions etc.
The ideal situation could be when both can sit together and work on a song - each making modifications / amendments to what they originally came up in the spurt of the moment and keep making continuous improvement refining the final product...
But taking both in *absolute* terms, just given a situation
-A lyricist on white paper can imagine to use all the words that may fit. If he was given a tune - iLaiya nilaa pozhigiRadhE, for the first word he can only think of a 2-3 letter word which should also confine to the grammar of the tune with all that kuRil/nedil/thEmaa/puLimaa stuff.
-A musician given a white paper, like you said can come up with so many things. One advantage the musician has over the lyricst is a song is not just about the main melody. Backing instruments / ludes ellaam pugunthu viLaiyaadalaam.
And my vote is for music and then lyrics too simply because I am not a lyrical.
Softu, to answer your question, I d think composing tune to already written lyrics will be tougher than composing music on a white paper.
Actually, the mechanical process itself will be "easier" (than creating one from emptiness) but to make it "catchy" may be the tougher part :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
For e.g., give any Bharathiyar song or kuRAL or silambu to a capable composer, they will come up with 4/5 melodies for each verse in a matter of minutes. (On occasions, this was demonstrated by music directors like MSV / IR in public even). However, whether the outcome is as catchy as what they came up purely with musical notes (and no poem) is doubtful.
I've mentioned about this competition that used to run in our college Thamizh mag (interestingly, that too had the name 'thenRal', like the popular Thamizh mag in NA) where a poem will be published and students were asked to come up with melody for it. I had seen non-composers, engg students with absolutely no musical background, coming up with very interesting musical patterns at the hostel corridor. It should be a cake-walk for KVM-MSV-Raja-Rahman to put together a "tune" for any pre-written poem.
What's more - nAnE "andheeee mazhai -huhhA -pozhikeeRadhu-huhhA- ovvoru- thuLiyeeelum -unmugam - therikeeeRadhu -aaAH-aaAH-aaAH-aaAh-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum-dhikkum-dhik-dhikkum" appadeennu oru tune pOttuppAdi irukkEn...and many seemed to like it at hostel :mrgreen:
you caught exactly wat was in my mind when i asked that question...Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
thats why i stressed on the term easier... that even ppl who dont hav much of music knowledge could come up with a naive mettu....
to say exact, Rahmans tune for 'thottaal poo malarum' could hav been much painless than the original tune... (i am not comparing here, mind it)
i understand... that musician has more scope for creativity... he can even collaborate with other musicians while bringing the music...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
but while writing lyrics, most of the times it will be an individual process... ofcourse some director/md's suggestions would take place...
also, the lyricist will be restricted to not use some controversial words, topics in his music... and he need to write related to the situation(ideally) whereas the musician can experiment...
for ur last line, refer my opinion above...
Andhi mazhaiyai vechikittE ivLavu easynaa, adhu kooda illainaa? thaana naana thaana naanaaa thana naanaa nu pOttalE pudhu mettu dhaanE :mrgreen:
adhu correct dhAn...because there are so many patterns possible, mettu can come just like that. The tricky part is 'catchiness' 'being likeable to many' etc. That way, having a pre-written lyric limits options to catchiness but free-form gives more freedom to get catchiness (including "senRiduveer ettuththikkum") :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
It can ... becos less than 5% of songs were written with tune first.Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
agreed 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerd
that is why you have boys in their late teens like anirudh and GSV starting to compose tunes. :lol:
Take ARR for instance. kannukku mai azhagu was pre-written... how beautiful the song is!
Well, if you have such firm statistics, nothing to argue about :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
We're glad to have someone who was with every composer-lyricist duo of TFM - from 'mahAkavi kALidAs' to 'kAdhalil sodhappuvadhu eppadi' in the song making sessions :notworthy:
Let's accept the fact :wink:
ae, one doesnt have to be together to know things. ;)
btw, even 5% is too much... do you know the evolution of TFM .... I mean since the very beginning. just a sincere question, not being sarcastic. :)
illeenga :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
My theory and limited knowledge :
-initially, the existing 'keerthanai's and such classical stuff were widely used (could be either pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu, since all these were done by one individual who did both lines & mettu)
-lot of imports from stage plays, bhaktippAdalkal, folk songs etc whose origins have not been properly documented (could be either pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu, since origins unknown)
-film composers arranging mettu for existing literature (definite case of pAttukku mettu, no dispute here, but this % in the overall TFM cannot be very high, even if one limits to a last date of 1975 for great songs of TFM :wink:)
-every film song written by Bharathidasan was pAttukku mettu ( he was angry with MSV when he requested him to write a song for a great mettu, 'seruppukku nAn kAlai vetta mudiyAthu' and walked out)
-most songs composed by KVM were pAttukku mettu (per whatever I read here, this seemed to be his preferred method)
-most songs composed by copy cats, like Veda / Shankar-Ganesh, were mettukkuppAttu (source was indhi films, western music etc and not own compositions)
Other than the above, I fail to see how one can conclude for sure whether the song was pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu :confused: Especially those numbers that were built by the formidable kavingar - mellisai mannar combo?
Simply because MSV is a humble man and doesn't talk / write much does not automatically mean that he did servitude to kavingar most of the time. From whatever I read in the hub and elsewhere, they BOTH participated in many song making sessions and all three cases below are possible :
-pAttukku mettu
-mettukkuppAttu
-reNdum getting developed together, with changes / modifications / adjustments etc (I think this should be the max % for this combo)
So, even if we limit to the period upto 1975, we cannot be 100% sure about how many of those great songs were of each category. Even if we take on the face value the statements made by associates (director, producer etc), does anyone have a COMPLETE CATALOG today and has come to an arithematical conclusion / statistics of %?
I'll be glad to view such document and concede - that is for the pre-IR period, where I can be very objective :wink:
So NOV what you are saying is that Rahman, Thaman,GVP etc's output is inferior to old songs (60s and 50s)adhaanE? Agreed :lol: (avalai ninaichchu uralai idithth kadhai )
I'd be happy to see a technical discussion on mettukkupaattu vs viceversa. Not "my daddy is bigger" stuff with dubious stats.
There was an excellent discussion in Brangan's blog years ago on this. Googlemaasters can try to retrieve it - worthwhile than going into a number game and hypothesis without backing logic.
ap, nothing to ashamed of as we are always learning. I asked becos many of the times you have said that you are listening to a popular IR song for the first time. that being the case I was wondering whether you would be aware of the period before IR.
what you have posted above is just a scratch off the surface. I dont think you should come to any conclusion based on it.
anyway, when I asked about the evolution I meant from the period when the songs were recorded live at the shooting spot, with the music troupe following but careful not to appear in the camera.
secondly, are you aware of the scathing remarks made by kannadhasan when asked to write mettukku paattu by MSV for a movie in the 80s? he wrote insipidly but inspite of that the song went on to become a hit? :lol:
in conclusion my vote is always for pAttu first & mettu next :)
That's exactly what I did - i.e. without actual data base, I don't want to conclude one way or other. Since you believe in one to be a fact, the burden to show proof is on you :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
I agree each of us can have a "preferred way" but that need not be the one that had been proved to be historically, factually, the best way :-)
p.s.
During the recent IR Jaya TV concert in Chennai, rAsA talked about how kavingar instantly wrote lines for his mettu. Which is opposite to his "scathing remarks to MSV" that you referred in your post...just shows that kavingar wasn't consistent in his behaviour :-) So, IMHO, it's not factual to conclude that all his best numbers were automatically 'pAttukku mettu' (or the other way around).
You are assuming too many things ae.
from my "scathing remarks to MSV" and your "kavingar instantly wrote lines for his mettu" you have come to the conclusion " kavingar wasn't consistent in his behaviour"
adhu eppadi konjam kooda logic illaama?
anyway, if you dont wish to know things, its not my loss. :)
On one occasion, kavingar hits out against writing mettukkuppAttu.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
On another, he showers poem for pre-composed mettu like the flow of a river (Ayiram malarkaLE malarungaL amudha geetham pAdungaL).
Isn't that statistically "inconsistent" behaviour, strictly w.r.t. the topic under discussion (as to what was the "actual" working method of kavingar, not the "preferred method") :-)
I'm looking at this phenomenon purely from a statistical angle...and not straying from logic there :confused:
To me, pAttukku mettu or mettukkuppAttu resulting in a great song had been a random occurence (and not a consistent occurence), influenced more by the people involved rather than the process :-)
Unless hard numbers / data can be shown, we cannot increase the probability of either-ngREn...avvaLavE :-)
And, we're not even talking about another jAmbavAn Valee here who wrote tons of songs for mettu :-)
Though can never be considered equal to kavingar on quality, Mr Rangarajan did have much bigger quantity in TFM history and not all of them were mAnE thEnE stuff only...
Burden of proof lies with you NOV. You are theorising and presenting the last statement of the theorem without any attempt to explain the steps by which you arrived at that. Maybe you are like Ramanujan who scribbled equations just like that in margins of 40 pakka note book and peopole are still trying to prove those. If so, proud to be a member of a forum moderated by you. PiRkAlathula ungaLa paththi interview koduththu sambAdichukuven ;-)
epdi kattam kattunaar paattheengalaa...Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
note pannikkiraen... :lol2: