Listen to the song too!
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/....Jt.As1NMvHdW/
Printable View
Listen to the song too!
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/....Jt.As1NMvHdW/
I want to know the origin of "Vimal"/Vimala/Nirmala/Nirmal/Shymala"
It means pure in sanskrit.
"Mala" means impure.Does this come from the Tamil word "malam" meaning impurity?
------------------------------------------------
malar ÁÄ÷ (T) flower : > mala -malaa. -mal. -ÁÄ, -ÁÄ¡, -Áø, -ÁÇ¡
vizu malar (T) Å¢ØÁÄ÷ : excellent flower : > vimala Å¢ÁÄ¡, Å¢ÁÄ
niRa malar (T) ¿¢ÈÁÄ÷ splendid flower : > nirmala. niRam= oLi. ¿¢÷ÁÄ¡, ¿¢÷ÁÄõ.
chezu malar (T) ¦ºØÁÄ÷ : beautiful fresh flower : >shyamaLa. º¢Â¡ÁÇ¡
kazu malar (T) ¸ØÁÄ÷ - flower washed by water, lotus : > kamalaa. kamala, kamalam. ¸ÁÄ¡, ¸ÁÄ, ¸ÁÄõ, ¸Áø.
maalai Á¡¨Ä > maalaa Á¡Ä¡. (now spelt as mala ) not phoenetic spelling.
malam ÁÄõ - impurity ÁÄ ( also ÓõÁÄõ)
confusion arises in Skrt because malar : "r" was dropped by them and then word is permitted thereby to confuse with mala meaning impurity which also dropped the -m.
In Tamil, no confusion!!
also: maalikaa (skrt) from T: maalai. (raagamaaliha)
maaliha > malihaa (girl's name in Malay).
In sanskrit, sandhya means twilight or evening.A junction between afternoon & evening etc.
Did this come from Tamil word "Santhippu"(meaning a meeting place or junction)
¾Á¢ú ¦¿Êø º¢Ä¦º¡È¸Ç¢ø ÌȢġ¸¢Å¢Îõ.
Tamil long vowels in some words become shortened The word saar in Tamil means to reach, to lean over, join. Another form of the same word saar is sEr.
This word "santhiya" is in fact corrupted or forged from "saarnthiyai" (T).
saarnthiyai > santhiyai > santhiyaa. (long vowel shortened and "r" dropped. (i) changed to "a" as word-ending).
( iravum pakalum saarnthu iyayum kaalam).
saarnthu + iyai.
saarnthu is a participle of the word saar (sEr) meaning to join. Participles have been used in the course of word-building in Tamil. e.g.,
aNinthurai (preface) from aNinthu + urai (old word)
parnthurai (recommendation) from parinthu+ urai. (modern word).
saayum + kaalam > saayumkaalam > saayngaalam. (kathiravan saayum kaalam).
saarnthiyai > santhiya then means the time when afternoon and night became mixed.
sandhya in Sanskrit : n. (fr. SaNDha} the state of being a eunuch , impotence. Not same.
Viggop,
how many words still remain in Sanskrit to be explained? You must be done sooner or later. Why don't you take the word for Water? But to start with which one out of the 70 is your problem I guess.
Mala,
a while ago you explained the name Rama= Iraaman with "ir" in Tamil is darkness.
Is it the same with IraavaNan? Somebody of darkness?
If what I guess is right then the whole RaamaayaNam is nothing else than a descrption of the flora, fauna and geography similar to those myths of the ancient greek like the Helena, The Jason and the argonauts.
Yes. Eravanan has root in 'Er'. Eravu + Vannan = Eraavanan. Means black colour.
f.s.gandhi
and FSG has given you the answer!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhahan
Further:
Ratha or Radha was also a dark girl. The root is also ir = black. Iraathai> Iraathaa > Radha. from Tamil root.
According to P.C. Sarkar whom I read some time back, Radha was a duetero-mongoloid, "yellowish dark". or brown like a Malay, Filipino etc of the SEAsia region. It seems the migration of this kind of people took place in prehistoric times from island of Formosa (now Taiwan) to the Malay Archipelago and then to India. The dark colour may have resulted from some mixture with the Negritos. So, she was probably of Polynesian ( a resultant stock ) descent.
It has been said by other writers here before that Krishnan is from the root "karu" (T). Karu (T) to Kru in Northern adaptation. cf : the term krishNapaksham opp. of Sukkilapaksham. Krishnapaksham is actually the "dark side" of the moon. That confirms the etymology and meaning.
Some more:
The imaginary planet "Raagu". Meaning: black serpent. Also from Tamil root: ir = dark. ir > iraa > iraagu > raagu. ( raagu is northern adaptation.)
If we were to carry on researching on Tamil roots of Skrt words, there are about 60,000 or more and of the remaining, about 50% can be hortly disputed as from Tamil too. This is from about 170000 or more (total). Like Latin, Greek and Hebrew, Skrt is an invented language. Usually a dialect is taken and using it as a base, words are taken from all directions of the earth and a new language is forged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhahan
Skrt is not a "dead" language in the sense that it had naturally grown and existed and then died. It was invented. So it is more like doll, which was made. It does not "die".
There are lot more and hopefully others may come forward.
Is the word "Dharma" from Tamil?
'dharma' is from root tamil verbial root 'Tharu' which means 'give'.
Tharu- Maram (Tree)-Which gives some benefits to the society.
Tharuvaai- provided with Appropriate period
Tharppanam- giving ritual practices
Tharuni-young woman who gives pleasure
Tharani-earth which gives all natural benefits
Thaaraalam- Giving things with generosity
Thaarai- giving water through hole
Thaar- Bunch of bananaas provided with banyan tree
The above are some of the words from this root.
In Kamba Ramaayanam 'Tharu vanam' is there to specify forest with trees.
'Tharumai / Tharumam turned 'Dharma' in Sanskrit like Marumai / marumam turned marmam.
f.s.gandhi
WHat about the word "Guhan" (living in caves) for Murugan
Also, "Skantha"
Are these words from Tamizh
"«Ã¢ÂÐ §¸ð¸¢ý ±Ã¢¾Åú §Å§Ä¡ö!"
¦ºù§Åû!!
This deity was originally red in colour and burning fire is also red.
kan > kanal.
kan > kanal > kanaluthal. (burning).
kan > kanalal (burning).
kan + thu(suffix) + an (masculine suffix) = kanthan.
Kanthan was later introduced to North India by the Tamil devotees. Then:
kanthan > skanda.
kanthan > iskandar (in Malay and Indonesian). Now a name of many a Malay and Indonesian.
Skanda a South Indian deity.
kukai > kudai > kuzai.
The root is kuL.
Examine: paL - depression in the ground.
paL > paLLam - depression in the ground.
paL > padukai. depression in the ground.
So, paL can change to padu.
paL also can change to paku. (to split, to divide). paku+ ai = pakai.
Is the rule of change clear? Words change in similar pattern in Tamil.
kuL > kukai ; kuL > kudai , (also kudam, kudavu(kukai). kuL > kuzi > kuzal >kuzaai.
Now we tabulate:
kuL >(kuku)*> kukai like paL >( paku)* pakai
kuL > (kudu)* > kudai like paL > (padu)* >padukai. (kudu) > kudavu. also kudaivu.
kuL > kuttai ; kuL > kudu > kudam.
kuL > (kuku)*> kukan ( person of the cave or kudavu).
kuL >( kuku )> kukam (kuham) a cavern.
kuku - a tubular vessel of the body.
kuhan (kukan) was a name applied to Kanthan,
kudavu = a dance of kanthan.
kudagu malai is a malai with a lot of kudavu or caves.
There are too many derived words in this area from the great root word kuL.
Many millenia must have gone by for the words to undergo such multiple changes.
Modern languages do not show such multiple changes and acceptance(joining) of suffixes.
þô§À¡Ð «ì¸¢ÃÁõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨Äô À¡÷ô§À¡õ.
þÐ ÓýÒ «+ ¸¢ÃÁõ ±ýÚ À¢Ã¢ì¸ôÀðÎô ¦À¡Õû ¯¨Ãì¸ôÀð¼ ¦º¡øÄ¡Ìõ.
¸¢ÃÁõ ±ýÈ¡ø "Ó¨È". « ±ýÈ Óý¦É¡ðÎ «øÄ¡¾Ð ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕûÀÎÅÐ ±ýÚ ÜÈôÀÎõ.
§ÀîÍÅÆ츢ø þÐ «ìÌÚÁõ ±ýÚ ¯îºÃ¢ì¸ôÀθ¢ÈÐ - ¸øÅ¢ «È¢× ºüÚ Ì¨Èó¾ ¿ýÁì¸Ç¡ø.
´Õ ¦º¡øÄ¢ý þÃñ¼¡õ ±ØòÐ "¸" Å¡¸ þÕó¾¡ø, «Ð ¾¢Ã¢À¨¼¾ø ¯ñÎ ±ýÀÐ ÓýÒ Å¢Çì¸ôÀð¼Ð.
º¸ì¸Çò¾¢ > ºì¸Çò¾¢ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨Ä §¿¡ì¸¢É¡ø þÐ ÒâÔõ.
¬¸§Å:
«¸ì ÌÚÁõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø «ìÌÚÁõ ±ýÈ¡¸Ä¡õ.
ÌÚ(õ)+«õ = ÌÚÁõ. ÌÚ¸¢Â ÁÉò¾¡ø þ¨Æì¸ôÀÎõ Ó¨ÈÂüÈ ¦ºÂø.
«¸(õ) + ÌÚ (õ) +«õ = «¸ìÌÚÁõ > «ì¸¢ÃÁõ.
¬¸§Å, «+ ¸¢ÃÁõ ±ýÚ ¾ÅÈ¡¸ô À¢Ã¢òÐ «¾ý ãÄõ ¸¢ÃÁõ ±ýÈ ´Õ Ò¾¢Â ¦º¡ø¨Ä ¯Õš츢Ţð¼É÷.
þôÀÊò ¾ÅÈ¡¸ô À¢Ã¢òÐò¾¡ý, " ¸¢ýÚ" ±ýÈ þ¨¼¿¢¨Ä ¾Á¢Æ¢ø ¿ýëÄ¢ø ÜÈôÀð¼Ð. þýÚ > ¸¢ýÚ.
«ìÌÚÁõ ±ýÀÐ «¸ò¾¢ý ÌÚ了Âø.
ippOthu akkiramam enRa sollaip pArppOm.
ithu munpu a+ kiramam enRu pirikkappaddup poruL uraikkappadda sollAkum.
kiramam enRAl "muRai". a enRa munnoddu allAthathu enRa poruLpaduvathu enRu kURappadum.
pEssuvazakkil ithu akkuRumam enRu ussarikkappadukiRathu - kalvi aRivu saRRu kuRain-tha n-anmakkaLAl.
oru sollin iraNdAm ezuththu "ka" vAka irun-thAl, athu thiripadaithal uNdu enpathu munpu viLakkappaddathu.
sakakkaLaththi > sakkaLaththi enRa sollai n-OkkinAl ithu puriyum.
AkavE:
akak kuRumam enRa sol akkuRumam enRAkalAm.
kuRu(m)+am = kuRumam. kuRukiya manaththAl izaikkappadum muRaiyaRRa seyal.
aka(m) + kuRu (m) +am = akakkuRumam > akkiramam.
AkavE, a+ kiramam enRu thavaRAkap piriththu athan mUlam kiramam enRa oru puthiya sollai uruvAkkividdanar.
ippadith thavaRAkap piriththuththAn, " kinRu" enRa idain-ilai thamizil n-annUlil kURappaddathu. inRu > kinRu.
Àâò¾ø ±ýÀ¾üÌô ÀÄ ¦À¡ÕÙñÎ. þÅüÚû À¡Ð¸¡ò¾ø ( to be cherished ) ±ýÀÐõ ´Õ ¦À¡ÕÇ¡Ìõ.
¬Àýõ ±ýÀÐ À¡Ð¸¡òÐ «½¢Å¾üÌâ ¦À¡Õ¨Çì ÌȢ츢ÈÐ. þ¾¢ø «¼í¸¢ÔûÇ ãÄî ¦º¡ü¸¨Çì ¸¡ñ§À¡õ.
¬+Àâ+«½¢+«õ = ¬+À÷(+þ) +«ñ(+þ) +«õ = ¬Àýõ.
¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ò¾¢ø Àâ ±ýÀ¾¢ÖûÇ þ¸ÃÓõ «½¢ ±ýÀ¾¢Ä¢ÕìÌõ þ¸ÃÓõ ¦¸ð¼É (Á¨Èó¾É). ãÄ §Å÷¸§Ç ÀÂýÀÎò¾ôÀðÎûÇÉ.
þ¾ý ¦À¡Õû: À¡Ð¸¡òÐ «½¢Å¾üÌ ¬Ìõ ¦À¡Õû.
"¬Ìõ ¦À¡Õû" ±ýÀÐ §¾¡ýÈ "¬" Óý¦É¡ð¼¡ÉÐ.(prefix)
Words in "a" meaning ornaments or something connected with ornaments in Sanskrit:
1 AhAryazobhA
2 alaMzAstra
3 Anaddha .
4 analaMkariSNu
5 apanI 7.
6 Ayudha
7 AziJjita.
cankarAbaraNam: (µ÷ þá¸õ).
ºí¸Ã¡Àýõ ±ýÀÐ ºí¸÷ + ¬Àýõ ±ýÚ À¢Ã¢ì¸ò ¾Ì¦ÁýÀ÷.
ÀÃÁº¢Åý ¸Øò¾¢ø þÕôÀÐ À¡õÒ ¬¨¸Â¡ø: ºí¸Ã¡Àýõ ±ýÀÐ ¿¡¸ò¨¾ì ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð. «Å÷ ÁüÈ ¦À¡Õû¸¨ÇÔõ «½¢ó¾¢ÕôÀ¾¡¸ì ÜÈôÀð¼¡Öõ (±ÎòÐ측𼡸: §¾¡Ä¡¨¼, ¸í¨¸ ), þíÌ ¬Àý¦ÁÉôÀð¼Ð ¿¡¸ò¨¾§Â ÌÈ¢ò¾Ð.
þùŢá¸ò¾¢ý º¢Ä ÀÂýÀ¡Î¸û ¿¡¸ò¾¢ý º£üÈò¨¾¦Â¡ò¾¢ÕôÀ¾É¡ø, ÁüÚõ À¼¦ÁÎò¾ ¿¡¸õ «í¹Éõ º£üÈòмý ¾¢ÕõÒÅЧÀ¡ÖÁ¢ÕôÀ¾É¡ø, «ô¦ÀÂ÷ ¦ÀüȾ¡¸ þ¨ºÂ¡º¢Ã¢Â÷ ÜÚÅ÷.
«Ð ¿¢ü¸, þ·Ð ¿¡¸¾£Àò¾¢Ä¢Õó¾ ¿¡¸÷¸Ç¡ø Á¡¨Ä §Å¨Ç¸Ç¢ø À¡¼ôÀð¼ À¨Æ þḦÁýÚ §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ. ¾Á¢Æ¢¨ºÂ¢ø þÐ ÀÆõÀïÍÃõ ±ÉôÀð¼Ð. þáŽý (<þ÷>þÕû, ¬¸§Å ¸ÚôÒ ¿¢Èò¾¢Éý ±ýÀÐ ÓýÒ ÜÈôÀð¼Ð) þ¨º ÅøÖ¿ý ±ýÚõ À¡Êî º¢ÅÉÕû ¦ÀüÈ¡ý ±ýÚõ þýÚ Å¨Ã ÜÈôÀΞ¡ø, ¿¡¸¾£Àò¾¢ø þ¨º ÑðÀÁȢ󧾡÷ Àø¸¢ þÕó¾É÷ ±ýÀÐ ¯½ÃôÀÎõ. À¡½÷ ±ÉôÀð¼¡Õõ «Å§Ã¡õ. º¢ÅÅÆ¢À¡Î «íÌ º¢Èó¾¢Õó¾Ð.
þá¸õ ±ýÀÐ, Óý «Ã¡¸õ ±ýÚ þÕó¾Ð.
«÷ ±ýÀÐ ´Ä¢. (§ÅÚ ¦À¡Õû¸Ùõ ¯Ç).
«÷ > «ÃüÚ
«÷ > «ÃðÎ
«÷ > «÷îº¨É («÷+Í+«¨É). «¨É - suffix.
«÷+¬Ì+«õ = «Ã¡¸õ > á¸õ > þá¸õ.
ÁüÈ ´Ä¢ò¦¾¡¼÷Ò¨¼Â ¦º¡ü¸û:
«÷ > «Õì̾ø = À¡Ã¡ðξø.
«÷ > ¬÷ > ¬÷ôÀâò¾ø.
«÷ > ¬Ã¡§Ã¡ ¬Ãâ§Ã¡ (¾Ä¡ðÎ)
compare: (to show loss of the first letter )
«Ãò¾õ> Ãò¾õ > þÃò¾õ.
¿¢ÃõÀ > ¦Ã¡õÀ.
«Ãºý > áºý > ს.
«¨ÃÂý > áÂý > áö. ...... þýÉ À¢È.
«Ã¡¸õ ±ýÀÐ ¸Ä¢ôÀ¡Å¢ý ¯ÚôÒ ±ýÛõ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢Öõ, ¡ú Á£ðÎõ ¾¢Èý ±ýÛõ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢Öõ þýÚŨà ¿¢¨ÄòÐûǨ¾ §¿¡ì¸¢, ḦÁýÀÐõ «í¸¢ÕóÐ ¦ÀÈôÀ𼧾 ±ýÀ¨¾ ±Ç¢¾¢ø «È¢ÂÄ¡õ. º¢Ä ¦À¡Õû¸Ç¢ø ÅÆíÌõ ´Õ ¦º¡ø, «ÅüÈ¢ø ´Õ ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø ¾¢Ã¢À¨¼Å¦¾ýÀÐ ¦Á¡Æ¢ þÂøÒ.
Malaji
The raga for snake is supposed to be "PunnagaVaraLi"
You can hear Pambatti Siddhar's padal rendered by Sudha Ragunathan here(PunnagaVaraLi)
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/...y79.As1NMvHdW/
An alapana in Shankarabharanam by MS is always great.
Here it here
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/...Ff9.As1NMvHdW/
Shyama Sastri's "Saroja dala Nethri"
:-)
Dear viggopji, thank you for surfacing it.
ÅáǢ < ÅÕ + ¬û + þ.
It means a raaga that causes something or somebody to appear in the presence of the person who makes the entreaty. ¬û here emphasizes the management of that appearance or coming. It may also be a comparison, as in Ìó¾ÄÅáǢ; Üó¾ø > Ìó¾ø > Ìó¾Äõ. (shortening of the first letter, which I have already mentioned in earlier posts.).
ÒýÉ¡¸ÅáǢ is one of the ragas which have the snake connection. It carries the naaga name openly whereas in ºí¸Ã¡Àýõ, naagam is referred indirectly or subtly.
Òý + ¿¡¸(õ)+ ÅáǢ.
Òý = venomous. ¦¸¡ÊÂ.
What about naagananthini raaga: this name also openly concerns the snake!
Those who worshipped snakes were called "naagar" in Tamil. Naagathiipam refers to the Jaafna Peninsula. The naaga raagas could have originated from there and the presence of the naaga word or reference may be an indication.
Note: "vaanamengkE, buumi engkE, vaazvu thaazvengE" song in Ambikapathi sung by TM Sounderaraajan and P Banumathi is punnaagavaraaLi, right?
"maanasa sanjararE" by Thygaraaja Swami too!!
Malaji
There are many ragas associated with name "naaga".i think i heard about NaagaGandhari?
"Manasa Sancharare" is raga Saama and it is by "sadashiva brahmendra"(not thygarajar)
Lyrics here
http://www.karnatik.com/c1059.shtml
viggopjiQuote:
Originally Posted by viggop
Pl recheck on Maanasa SanjararE. During our music lessons, we sang in PunnaagavaraaLi and my notes say this was by Thiyaga swami. Are you able to check with the Kiirththanai book. of Thiyagaiar?
Some websites may not be accurate.
Mala: Maanasa sancharare,in Shyama, is by Sadhasiva Brahmendrar,not Thyagaraja.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/1/s/ragam.47/
Raj, can U pl check with the anthology of Thiyagaraaja SwamigaL.
Is it not there?
I cannot rely on websites because recently I read in a website that the epic MaNimEkalai was by iLangO which is wrong.
I do not have the book with me here in office.
Mala: I have the two volumes of Thyagaraja's compositions by Rangaramanuja Ayyangar and also the one by Parthasarathi.
The song you are referring to is
'maanasa sancharare raame
varamuni bhaktha loka.......' is in PunnaagavaraLi. Not a very popular composition. When people say 'maanasa sancharare' it is usually the composition by Sadasiva Brahmendrar. It goes like:
maanasa sancharare brahmaNi maanasa sancharare
sri ramNi kucha dhurga vihaare.......
The confusion is due to the popularity of the Sadasive Brahmendrar composition in Shyaama. :)
Raj, thanks a lot!
þô§À¡Ð ¯À¡Âõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨Äô À¡÷ô§À¡õ.
¯ ±ýÀÐ Óý ¿¢üÀÐ ±ýÈ ¦À¡ÕÙ¨¼ÂÐ ±ýÀ¨¾ì ÜÈ¢§Éý.
¯ò¾Ãõ ¯ò¾Ã× Ó¾Ä¢Â ¦º¡ü¸¨Çì Óý þΨ¸ôÀÎò¾¢Â¢Õ츢§Èý. ¬¸§Å ¦¿È¢Ó¨È¸¨Ç «íÌ ¸ñΦ¸¡ûÇÄ¡õ.
¯ + Ò + ¬ + «õ.
þ¾¢ø Ò - Ţ̾¢. ¬ (Å¢¨É¡ø). «õ = Ţ̾¢.
¯ò¾¢ ±ýÀÐ ¯ +¾¢ (Ţ̾¢) ±ýÚ ²üÀð¼Ð§À¡Ä.
þô§À¡Ð ¿£í¸û ´Õ §¸ûÅ¢ §¸ð¸ §ÅñÎõ. ¯ + Ò ±ýÀ¨¾î §º÷ìÌõ§À¡Ð ²ý ¯ôÒ ±ýÚ ÅáÁø ¯Ò (¯À¡Âõ) ±ýÚ Åó¾Ð? ±ýÚ!. þ¾ÈÌ ÁÃÒ, ´Æ¢Ò, ±ýÈ ¦º¡øĨÁôÒ¸¨Çì ¸ñÎ ¦¾Ç¢×¦ÀȧÅñÎõ.
¬Âõ ±ýÈ þÚ¾¢î¦º¡ø ¬+ ö+ «õ ±ýÚ Ò¨É×üÚ, «¨Áó¾Ð. "ö" ±ýÀÐ ¯¼õÀΦÁö. (¬¸¡! ¯¼ý+ÀÎ+¦Áö ±ýÀÐ ²ý ¯¼ýÀΦÁö ±ýÈ¢øÄ¡ÁÖõ, ¯¼üÀΦÁö ±ýÈ¢øÄ¡ÁÖõ "õ" Åó¾Ð ±ýÚ §¸ð¸Ä¡õ. ¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ò¾¢ø ҽâÂø þÄ츽õ µÃÇ×째 ÀÂýÀθ¢ÈÐ. ÓØÅÐõ À¢ýÀüÈôÀΞ¢ø¨Ä. «¾É¡ø¾¡ý Á¸+¸û ±ýÀÐ Á¸ì¸û ±ýÚ ÅáÁø Áì¸û ±ýÚ¾¡ý ÅÕõ, ¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ò¾¢§Ä! §Á + ÀÎ ±ýÀÐ §ÁõÀÎ ±ýÚ ÅÕõ, ¦ÁÄ¢ò¾Ä¡¸. §Á + ÀÊ¡ý = §ÁôÀÊ¡ý ±ýÚ ÅÕõ, §Àø.
«·¾ýÈ¢Ôõ, ¦¾¡øÀÆí¸¡Äò¾¢ø ¯¼ý ±ýÀ¾ý ÁÚÅÊÅÁ¡¸ ¯¼õ ±ýÀÐ þÕó¾¢Õì¸Ä¡õ. «Èõ - «Èý §À¡Ä!! ¯¼õ ±ýÚ ¦ºöÔÇ¢ø Åó¾ÅÆ¢ì ¸ñΦ¸¡ûÇ×õ. )
¯À¡Âõ ±ýÈ ¦º¡øÄ¢ø ¯ûÇ §Å÷¸û, ¾Á¢ØìÌâ¨Å.
'«ó¾¡¾¢' ¾Á¢Æ¡ ż¡øÄ¡?
«ó¾¡¾¢ ±ýÀÐõ ¾Á¢úãÄí¸Ù¨¼Â ¦º¡ø¾¡ý.
«ý > «ýÚ = ÓÊóÐŢ𼠿¡û «øÄÐ ¸¡Äõ.
«ý > «ñ > «¨½ > «¨½ò¾ø = ¾£ ӾĢÂÅü¨È ÓÊ×ìÌì ¦¸¡ñÎÅÕ¾ø.
«ý > «ýÚ > «ýÚ¾ø = Á¡ÚÀ¼ø, ¦¸Î¾ø (Óʾø, þøÄ¡Áġ̾ø).
«ý > «ý+Ð > «óÐ= Óʾø or «ýÚ > «óÐ > «ó¾õ.
«óÐ - ´ÕŨ¸ô â. (ÁÃõ, ¸Î¾¡º¢ ӾĢÂÅü¨È «Æ¢ôÀÐ)
¬¾¢: see thirukkuRaL thread, my post a few days ago on aathipakavan.
«ó¾õ+¬¾¢ = «ó¾+ ¬¾¢ = «ó¾¡¾¢. (´Õ «Ê¢ý ÓÊ× «Îò¾ «Ê¢ý ¦¾¡¼ì¸Á¡¸ò ¦¾¡ÎìÌõ ¦ºöÔû.
Consider changes between Dravidian languages:
±ýÚ > ±ýÛ (Á¨Ä¡Çõ).
±ýÉ > ±óÐ.
ÅóÐ > ÅýÛ.
¾ó¨¾ > ¾ñÈ¢ (¦¾ÖíÌ).
«ñ½ý > «ýÉ (¦¾)
«ýÚ > «ýÛ (§ÀîÍò ¾Á¢ú)
ÀýÉ¢ÃñÎ > Àó¾¢ÃñÎ (Á¨Ä)
«ñÊÃý > ¬ó¾¢Ãõ (by researchers).
You should be able to find from the above the change: ýÚ > ýÛ > óÐ. is common.
A place for all South Indians to meet
www.dravidanadu.com
Hi,
Just gone through some pages and want to correct some mistakes here.
Firstly, Samskrith is, without any arguements, is the oldest refined language in the world. This is the universal truth.
Samskrith is the purest language completely evolved on its own, without any help from any other language. So, this proves(though no need to) no words or roots from other languages let alone tamil, have been used in Samskrith.
As far as Sri Max Mueller and his works are concerned, he worked on ancient works like Vedas and Puranas whose time precedes Silappadikaram and Manimekhalai by more than 3000 years.
Moreover Samskrith itself means refined, which proves that it is much more classical than tamil which is so crude that it does not even have separate consonants that makes it very difficult to express words whereas Samskrith can represent any word in any manner.
Samskrith has the richest vocabulary free from other influences unlike tamil which is directly influenced by the Samskrith and dravidian vocabulary. One thing more, for the kindest information for some know-it-alls, please do clarify your doubts through reference books and magazines from Archaeological department.
Before heightening your language, do not condemn other languages as it will show how insecured you are about your language and culture.
Lastly post any queries regarding this subject and ill clear all the misconception(which people here have a lot) then and there itself.
Dear Friend,
Your View that Samskrit is pure and developed self is as much wrong as FSG aND bISMALA. RigVeda as per Professor Burrows who is the Editor of Dravidian Etymological Dictionary has around 10- 20 words.
Classical Sanskrit has burrowed much more.
Tamil uses nearly half the words burrowed from Sanskrit, Pali and Pragrit.
mms
Please go about thinking logically about the Sanskrit language. The necessity for such a refined language arose only after the class of persons known as BrahmaNa were ordained for their priestly job all over India to spread their creed.Quote:
Firstly, Samskrith is, without any arguements, is the oldest refined language in the world.
There is no evidence that any race or linguistic group in India spoke this language which is known as Sanskrit today as a home language at any time in history.
About one third of Sanskrit has very close linguistic relationship with the oldest Iranian dialect. Hence it is a foreign language which grew to "perfection" by devouring local pre-existing languages of Indian subcontinent.
Dear MMS,
As far as my views are concerned, do check Mr Burrow`s views once more because Samskrith has more forms than ever.
Firstly, there was never a categorization as classical and vedic Samskrith before in India, until under the influence of the european race. They separated(ofcourse we do not) Samskrith because they found LAET lakaar very difficult to understand.
Now coming to borrowed words, as against your thoughts,Samskrith is the root of all languages(chinese,japanese,korean and thai being no exception) including european ones.
So instead of recognizing Mr Burrow`s views, use your own
instincts and go through our own Indian Scholastic works where you can find not one or two but examples running through more than thousands that Samskrith is not a receiving but a gifting language.
How can you propose the views of a foreigner about Samskrith?
Confusions created by their ancestors about Aryans invading India from europe and Rgveda being written in second century bc are more than enough to prove their ever-demanding supremacy.
Aryans never invaded India as there was no need to as they were as Indians as you and me. And Vedas are timeless, might be written and preserved as a need might have rosen to do so due the incapable memory of humans in the later stages and that does not imply that vedas are from 2nd century bc( that would sound as funny as bismala talking sense :lol: just joking).
Lastly, YES, Samskrith is the purest language, and has not taken source from any language whether some believe it or not!
Good-luck everyone.
Bye.
Yes use your own instincts. Putting aside all the scholarly views you will find that Samskrith was a language of the mantravathis , who came into subcontinent from Iran side. It came as a dialect from that area and further, was developed in the subcontinent to become a "refined language". It is pure in the sense they have washed it up.Quote:
So instead of recognizing Mr Burrow`s views, use your own
instincts and go through our own Indian Scholastic works
Belief and devotion to a language is one thing; history and linguistics are another matter.
I am not saying it is not pure, Anything crude can be refined....Language is not an exception.
hi,
dialect means A regional or social variety of a language distinguished by pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary, especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern of the culture in which it exists: Cockney is a dialect of English.
A variety of language that with other varieties constitutes a single language of which no single variety is standard: the dialects of Ancient Greek.
I now think there is no need to explain that Samskrith is no dialectic form of any language.
Now what did you say? belief and devotion and blah blah blah........
all that holds true even in your and gandhi`s(not mahatma gandhi)case.
If you two appraise your own language with such devotion and provenance, then why cant people who can prove their point much more than you praise the mother of all languages, that is Samskrith?
Simple! Because Sanskrit is not a mother language. It is a composed and refined script!Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyonika
As the nomad “mantravaathis” who entered Afghan area had a form of speech and no writing, it is not easy to accord the status of a “language” to their then speech. Thus they spoke a dialect or more than one dialect. This dialect (or dialects) then fused with local words of Northern Dravidian and Munda to become a liturgical language, which we call Rigkrit (Rig Veda language). This language was different from the other language which later developed and was called “Sanskrit” by the Ramayana period.. These were not actually “languages” in the real sense but are called languages merely by analogy with real spoken languages. About 1/3 of the lexical base of Sanskrit is traceable to ancient Iranian or other Indo-European.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoyonika
Samskrith is not a real language. The ancient Iranian dialect (which fused with local elements and gave rise to the liturgical form) is now dead.
By all means, sing praises of your Samskrith. We love to hear it!! Did I or FSG deny anyone such facility in this hub? Mother Sanskrit Theory was much in the news during the times of Maxie and Willie but we hear little of it today. After India became independent, the British were seemingly no longer enthusiastic to promote it any further. Some in India are still suffering from the hangover. The linguistic theory was then expected to pacify and retain India. Voltaire and other intellectuals of Europe also were interested in it to deprive the Church of its hold on Europe and the influence of the JewsQuote:
If you two appraise your own language with such devotion and provenance, then why cant people who can prove their point much more than you praise the mother of all languages, that is Samskrith?
You are welcome to revitalise the theory but please produce the proof that Sanskrit is the mother of all world languages. A simple statement of claim or assumption is not good enough. We warmly welcome if you open a thread for that purpose. I do not think the moderators here will object.
Samskrith needs no ones signature to become a mother language, but some languages have been made classical on protests and request from people of that particular language.Quote:
Simple! Because Sanskrit is not a mother language. It is a composed and refined script!
Refined language? yes ,composed language? no.
By the way Samskrith for your kind information, had changed scripts more than 3 times from its refinement from old Samskrith(not dravidian roots) the devanagari being the newest script!
1. no vEdic people entered BAratha(as India was called previously) from irani side as they were already present here.Quote:
As the nomad “mantravaathis” who entered Afghan area had a form of speech and no writing, it is not easy to accord the status of a “language” to their then speech. Thus they spoke a dialect or more than one dialect. This dialect (or dialects) then fused with local words of Northern Dravidian and Munda to become a liturgical language, which we call Rigkrit (Rig Veda language). This language was different from the other language which later developed and was called “Sanskrit” by the Ramayana period.. These were not actually “languages” in the real sense but are called languages merely by analogy with real spoken languages. About 1/3 of the lexical base of Sanskrit is traceable to ancient Iranian or other Indo-European.
2. Samskrith needs no categorization from any fools.
3. there was no language as a northern dravidian at all!
4. Samskrith at the time of Ramayana was different from previous Samskrith.
5. actuallythis is the vice-versa of the truthQuote:
About 1/3 of the lexical base of Sanskrit is traceable to ancient Iranian or other Indo-European
not hangover, but love towards mother language.Quote:
By all means, sing praises of your Samskrith. We love to hear it!!After India became independent, the British were seemingly no longer enthusiastic to promote it any further. Some in India are still suffering from the hangover. The linguistic theory was then expected to pacify and retain India. Voltaire and other intellectuals of Europe also were interested in it to deprive the Church of its hold on Europe and the influence of the Jews
facts are stranger than fiction but truth alone triumphs. Though of late, people will recover from the novel hangover that dravidian language is older to Samskrith
Mala, it is futile arguing with people like shoyonika who don't want to believe the facts and are hell bent on thinking that there should be a cultural or linguistic binding factor for a nation to be united. shoyonika, sorry to burst your ego, but have you actually heard the gods speak in sanskrit? If you say it is just your belief, sorry again, but beliefs maketh not science.