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Thanks a lot !!!... Gayatri yanamandra, Hats off to you.!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gayatri yanamandra
Will you please post the AUDIO URL of the above Song here, along with the LYRIC and Meaning?
If you are unable... Will you please let me know the source.... so that I can try.
Our Viewers will be happy and thankful to you.
Thanking You,
Sudhaama.
.
hello sudhama gaaru
thanks for your interest in the krithi.. ill be more than happy to share the krithi and meaning with you..
this krithi was beautifully composed sung by G Balakrishna parasad garu and i think it was accompanied by sri chinna jeeyar swamy garu of ahobalam matt..
his divine voice enhances the beauty of this krithi..
i shall upload the audio file in a day or so..
pallavi:
Gathulani kila maina kaliyuga mandu nu gathi
ithade chupe ghana guru daivamu..
In this age of kaliyuga he is our destiny and he is the guru and god for all us...
charanam1
ithane karuna ney ga ila vaishanavula mithi
ithane valaney kanti ni tirumani ni
ithane upadesaminchenu astakshari mantramu
ithade ramanujulu iha para daivamu..
it is becoz of him we are vaishnavas and he is the one who showed us the tirumani (lord venkateswara) he is the one who gave us the astakshari mantramu ,he is none other than ramanujulu our lord in both worlds..
charanam 2:
valainchey ithadu ga vedapu rahasayamu
chalami ithade chupe saranagathi
nilipi nadu ithadega nija mudra adharmuu
valasi ramanujulu mataladey daivamu..
he gave us the secrets of vedas , showed us the right path
showed us the mudras and he is kind of lord withn whom we can communicate.
charanam 3
niyamamulu ithade ga nilipe parapanulukuu
daya tho mokashambu chupe dhara ithadu
nayame sri venketsawara nagamatey vakkitanu
daya chuchi mamu intey tali thandri diavamu
he is the one who gave all the beings the rules
which can lead us to the path of salvation..
just like lord venketesawara he is our mother, father and god .
this is my understanding of the krithi , pls bear with me if i my wrong..
thanks once again sudhamu garuu for ur interest...
gayatri
Dear Ms Gayathri,
Glad and Thanks for your prompt and sincere response.
And I am ANXIOUSLY waiting to hear that Song... by your Audio URL... here.
Further herebelow, you can find my Article on Thiruvaaymozhi - 8 of October issue of our Hub Magazine...
... which narrates the backgrounds and the challenging experience of Ramanujacharya to climb over the Thirumala Hills jungle on those days...
... his FIRST ENTRY... about 800 years back.!!
...when there were no paths nor Road nor steps... especially very tough in the Valley (The Photo posted is self-explanatory)..
...especially the Fifth Hill...which gave him Dharsana of Live ADHI-SESHA... and made him bend his Knees and climb further with the knees...
...and further the Miracle played by Lord Venkateswara...!!!
If you cannot read Tamil Script, some of your friends may be able to help you.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/oct06/?t=8027
Please read and comment to me as your Feedback....
... as also all other friends... whatever they may feel... to speak out frankly..
.. I will not mind even the Negative comments and Criticisms.. And will duly reply.
With Best Wishes,
Sudhaama.
.
hi sudhama garu
here is the link to the krithi..
http://music.cooltoad.com/music/song.php?id=277565
you need to download the krithi from this site ...
hope you ll like it..
gayatri
hello sudhama garu,
I was not able to read the magazine from the link you gave me, looks like there is error on the page..
though you have outlined the salient features of those wonderful script... would you please be able to summarise the content in english.. whenever you can..
(i really want to know the miracle played by lord venkateswara..)
i hope you have enjoyed the krithi..
thanking you
gayatri
.
How to be HAPPY and PURPOSEFUL in Human Life.?
.Ramanujacharya's Guidance to GLOBAL HUMANITY:--
Ramanuja's preachings were mainly based on Nammaalwar's THIRUVAAYMOZHI, Bhagwad GEETHA and VISHNU-PURANAM..
... called as Purana-Rathnam, which has been extensively quoted and based upon for their Philosophical conclusions, by Krishna chaithanya, Sankaracharya and Madhwacharya too.
(1) Mankind is the rare Super-creature on Earth endowed with superlative Brain-might and Soul-power, with the support of which, Man only can enjoy the maximum pleasure and utlity of birth when compared to other creatures... innate with only Sub-human propensities.
So, Oh! Man! Make use of your best opportunity for your true advancement and realistic purpose of this birth towards your Ultimate Goal... Liberation from further Re-births.(Mukthi / Moksha / Salvation)
(2) God-faith for Mankind is an Inevitable-must. Such a Spiritual-pursuit may be of any ordained path of diversity of Religions and Sub-Religions as propounded by the authentic Prophets... left to the Radical choice and freedom of the Individual devotee- aspirant concerned.
(3) God is ONE only... He is Lakshmi-Narayana. All other Gods are His manifestations. He is amenable to be treated and addressed by any Name or Form or status, the devotees may choose to ascribe and believe.
(4) All the World Religions are divine since created by the One Supreme God, to suit the varied Tastes, Needs and Assimilation- capacity of the Individuals. And all the Divine-paths lead towards One God only.. similar to all the Rivers ultimately reaching One Ocean.
So none of the other Religions or Divine-paths should be under-rated nor their Prophets decried by others... since created by One common God.
(5) All the Individuals and Segments of Mankind are EQUAL by birth... So no Superiority or Inferiority of Human-status on the basis of Parentage should be practised..
Social discrimination on the basis of birth is not only against the Rudimentary principles of Vedic Spirit .. but also UNETHICAL, INHUMAN and SINFUL.
Conforming to such preaching, he documented the Organisation- Standard Stipulations named "KOYIL-OZHUHU" for conducting the Srirangam Ranganathar Temple.
Accordingly all the Temple Servicemen get EQUAL HONOUR of Parivatta- Mariyaadhai at that Temple...
..irrespective of their Birth-background, Social-status or the Type of service they render.
So to say, the orthodox Brahmin Archaka (Poojari), the Vedic-Scholar chanting Vedas, the Garland-maker named Sathathaar (SC), the Pandal-builder (SC), Pot-maker, and the Dhobi (Washerman) receive equal recognition and honour for their respective varied services.
Such a strict Regulation initiated by Ramanuja about 800 years back, continues in practice even now-a-days.
(6) Amongst the Advanced-creatures, Man is the only creature innate with NO WEAPONLY ORGANS in the Body..
... like fierceful Teeth and Nails or forceful Beating- might or Hitting physical strength for attacking others.
In this respect, one proximate creature to Man, is the Monkey... which is practically the HAPPIEST, most SUCCESSFUL...
... and maximum utilizing its inborn potentialities of Heart and Brain, more than the Physical might.
So Oh Man!.. Are You INFERIOR TO ANIMALS?
.. If you do not know the Art of Living ...
... at least learn it from the exemplary Monkey,
.. the Friend of all Animals and Birds... in addition to its own Kind or Specy
.. resulting in Peaceful ALWAYS HAPPY Life of EASY SUCCESS with the least problems.
.. To continue.
.
Sudhama,
Ur posts on Udaiyavar are truly remarkable.
There is criticism that he tried to project Lord Vishnu & black out Lord Ganesh in the Vishnu sasranaamam "Shuklam bharatham Vishnum..." thus portraying him to be a fanatic.
Please explain on this.
Though many Udaiyavar followers belive that His Thiirumeni is enshrined in Srirangam Temple, many Vaishnavaite sholars have disputde the claim. They say that it is not mentioned anywhere, even in the Koil ozhugu & also no mention has been made by Manavala Mamunigal, Udaiyavar's ardent follower. They say that a statue has been raised over his mortal remains.
Ur thots on this too, please.
.
Shuklaambara dharam SLOKAM: Ramanuja's Fanaticism.?
[quote="smith"]
// Sudhama,... Ur posts on Udaiyavar are truly remarkable.//
Dear Smith ... Thanks for your FEEDBACK and healthy Spirit.
// There is criticism that he tried to project Lord Vishnu & black out Lord Ganesh in the Vishnu sasranaamam "Shuklam bharatham Vishnum..." thus portraying him to be a fanatic. Please explain on this. //
So You mean... the Slokam "SHUKLAAMBARA DHARAM..." is NOT ON VISHNU... but the Prayer meant and intended towards the God Ganesa.!...
Well.. Will you please explain... the meaning of the words VISHNUM... CHATHUR-BUJAM (Four-Hands)...Applicable to Vinayaka?
How it turned and got named as Ganesa-Dhyanam also...
...in addition to its Original true sense of Vishnu-dhyana Slokam... there is a Political History.
After you get clear on this question, I will take up your next question.
.
Actually, I don't remember the contents, but there was an article stating that Shuklam in the sloka referred to Lord Ganesa & there were subsequent debates on that, in this hub.
The inference was that the sloka was actually a prayer on Lord Ganesha, but Ramanuja was a fanatic who wanted that to be erased.
I ( & I suppose, many others) were really pained to see such comments.
It would be wonderful if U can give the true picture.
It is really heartwarming for Udaiyavar followers like me to read such informative information posted on HIM by you.
I request U to post all that U know of Udaiyavar in this hub so that many can benefit.
.
.Shuklaambara dharam... VISHNU DHYANA SLOKA
This Vishnu-dhyana Slokam is a part of VISHNU SAHASRA-NAMAM ... which is a section of Mahabharatha...
...written and recorded by the Lord Ganesa as per the dictation by the sage Vyasa.
But the Sahasra-naamam including this Dhyanna-slokam was composed and chanted by Bheeshma .
... as a reply to the Questions from Yudhishtra.... in front of Lord Krishna.
Meaning :--
Shukla = White-coloured
Ambara-dharam = One who wears the dress.
Vishnum = Vishnu (Him)
Sashi varnam = Moon-like lustred /colored and pleasant- natured
Chathur-bhujam = Four-armed
Prasanna-vadanam = Cheerful / Benefic- faced
Dhyaayaeth = be prayed by Dhyaanam
Sarva-vigna = All Obstacles
Upa-shaanthayae.= Let get clear off… causing Shanthi (Peace).
Ramanujacharya has no hand nor any history of his interference connected with this common prayer...
... addressing Lord Vishnu only... ... applicable for all the Vedic devotees.
He was always defensive, polite and Non-interfering in others affairs and faiths.
...In fact he was sincerely preaching and practicing UNITY UNDER DIVERSITY.
.
Thanks a lot for the post, sudhaama.
I have a few doubts :
1. I have read that when Ramanuja was summoned by the king, his disciples took his place & made Udaiayavar escape to melkote. When they were produced before the king, they were asked to sign the proclaimation that Lord Shiva was a greater God than Lord Vishnu & when they refused, they were punished.
Assuming that the above is true, when ramanuja is so large hearted, what prevented his followers also to be so?
I know there is some explaination here which I would like to hear from U.
2. Also I have read that since he was saved by harijans or dalits (as we call them now) from the clutches of robbers when he was returing from delhi to melkote, he "allowed" them to enter the shrine for 3 days in a year.
Now we know that udaiyavar's large heartedness knew no boundaries, if that is the case, why only "the 3 day period?
My intention is not to cast aspersions on the Maha Purusha (Avarai paththi vimarsanam pandrathukku yarukkume thagudi illai geradhu ennodiya abiprayam).
I only want to clear certain misgivings, that's all.
As an ardent udaiyavar devotee, it pains me when certain people cast aspersions.
Also, i wonder why U have stopped posting on Udaiyavar, of late. Please continue to do so. It is of immense benefit & delight to Udaiayavar devotees like me (& I am sure to many others as well).
.
. King Kulothunga Chozha's RELIGIOUS FANATICISM
Chozha Kings were ardent Saivites... and had highly patronised Saivam...
... but in general they had not hindered nor interfered with their people following other Religious faiths...
... thus encouraged PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE.
Whereas the one and only King KULOTHUNGA-CHOZHA- III.... was the only exception....the worst SAIVA-FANATIC.. to forcibly convert his people as well as the other Religious leaders.. as Saivites.
Those who refuse were severely punished.
But to the amaze of one and all... he could not convert his own Vaishnavite Minister NALOORAAN... the ardent disciple of Ramanuja.
Consequently the people were mocking at the King anonimously.. and he felt it as a matter of shame due to his failure in that case only.
But that minister was the so much trustworthy and highly competent executive, the King could not afford to lose... just by causing any displeasure to him.
Naalooraan's stand was that if his Guru Ramanuja agrees and declares that...
... the Lord Siva is supreme over all other Gods... including Vishnu...according to the Gospel VEDAS...
...he would abide by it and get converted to Saivam.
The King took it as a challenge to get such a statement of declaration... signed and authenticated as a permanent document from the All India famous Scholar Ramanuja... the then leading Non-Saivite residing in his country.
But most of the employees in his palace including the King, had never seen that Acharya. Even the few who could identify preferred to hide their knowledge.
During NAALOORAAN's absence...while he had gone to his native village, the King played a secret plan.
In the early morning, the Kings men arrived at Ramanuja's matam at Srirangam... and sought for the Acharya....while he was away for morning bath at Kaveri River.
KOORATHU- AZHWAR, Ramanuja's intimate disciple could smell the wicked-intention of the cruel King... and feared the probable harm to his Acharya... from the well-known Saiva-fanatic hating other faiths.
So he rushed to wear Ramanuja's Saint-robes and came out saying "I am Ramanujacharya... If the King wants me to meet him, well I am prepared to come".
Ramanuja's Guru, PERIA-NAMBI... could foresee the imminent grave danger to the innocent and selfless disciple Koorathu-Azhwar...posing as Ramanuja, due to his high spirit of Sacrifice to save his Guru.. So he too rushed to the Pallanquin introducing him as Ramanuja's Guru... interested to accompany.
Noticing such a sudden turn of circumstances... the Kainkarya-paras... the Ramanuja's Servicemen... rushed out of the matam in full batch and parafernalia... Thiru-chinnam, Chaamarams and Yekkaalam... etc.
... and took their respective positions in front of the palanquin... to pilot their Acharya...
Kattiyam-kaarar in his high-piched voice shouted... the ceremonial Kattiyam...
..."Jaya Vijayee Bhava... Ramanujacharya sreshta mahanubhaava... the Sri-Vaishnava maha Acharya Yathiraja... ... Paraak Paraak."
Because all of them were anxious to rush out... before the real Ramanuja's return from Kaveri.. probable at any moment.
This drama enacted collectively by all concerned... in a hurry within a few minutes... but with a noble intention... made the King's commander believe... that it was the real Ramanuja alongwith his Guru... sitting in the pallanquin..
The convoy started... while the perplexed people were helplessly watching with eerie silence.
In the Urhaiyur Chozha palace... the King straightaway asked Alwar to sign on a Palm-leaf declaration...
...stating SIVAATH- PARADARAM NAASTHI... meaning "There is No other Supreme God over Lord Siva"
The word SIVA has several meanings... one of its various meanings is LORD SIVA.
And one of the other meanings is... UZHAKKU (1/8 Measure) in Tamil.
Alwar being a great scholar meant the word Siva by that different sense... and wrote below the pre-written line as follows...
..."DRONAM ASTHEETHI THADAH PARAM"... and then put the seal of Ramanuja beneath..
By this Alwar meant the Word SIVA by its another meaning.. as "Uzhakku" (1/8 Measure)... and DRONAM = Aazhaakku (1/4 Mesure) which leads to its overall meaning that...
... One-fourth(1/4) is greater than One-Eighth(1/8)... (Lord Siva is totally out of picture.)
The King became furious and forced to accept that as per Vedas.. the Lord Siva is supreme over Vishnu.
Koorathu-Alwar and Peria-Nambi politely and persuasively argued with the Saiva pandits and the King... thus.
(1) We are not interested to denigrate any Vedic gods... be the Siva or any other God... because all the Vedic Gods are the various options available for the varied devotees suiting to their liking and individualities. And since they all are the part of our Holy Scriptures we duly regard all the Gods.
We expect the same spirit from our Ruler King... as well as other Saivites too... on all the Vedic Gods.
(2) If all of you Saivites believe that the God Siva is the supreme... even over the Lord Vishnu... well... you can believe so and follow accordingly. We are not interested to dispute with you, because it is your personal-faith... on which others are not supposed to interfere.
(3) But please do not force us to accept your Personal faith... deviating from our personal faith... since our Sect-faith is different as we follow our Vaishnava-gurus.
(4) Similar to your Ancestor-Kings... as also all other Kings... we expect you our Ruler to protect us equally as much as Saivites... without domination over our personal-faiths and beliefs.
(5) It is NOT CORRECT to say that Vedas declare Siva as the supreme... No Not so... nor it is proper to preach such a false propaganda in the name of Veda... other than your such a personal faith..
Vedas clearly state...
Narayana Para-brahma thathwam = Narayana is the Supreme God by Principle and Mights ..
Narayana paraha = Narayana is the Supreme Ruler over all other Gods....
Narayana Paro-jyothi = Narayana is the Supreme graceful Jothi imparting Grace- light to other God-Jothis..
Aathman Narayana paraha = Narayana is the Paramaathma- Omnipotent.
Yacha kinchith jagad sarvam drusyathae srooyathepi vaa, anthar bahischa thath sharvam vyaapya Naraayana sthithaha =
= whichever be objects or things even the tiniest in the Universe... either audible or visible... within all such ones...as also externally, the Lord Narayana is all pervasive... stable, permanent and eternally... true to the meaning of His another name VISHNU.
All the various Gods are the creations by ONE AND THE ONLY Supreme God... Narayana.... as stated categorically by Vedas and Upanishads undoubtedly.
Saivite pundits could not disprove such Gospel-statements...
Then the King interfered and passed a judgement that both these Vaishavites are Raja-drohi (Traitors to the King)...
.. be made BLIND by Sharp hot-rods... as the due punishment... It was carried out immediately.
Guru Peria-nambi... the aged man, could not bear the cruel brunt of the hot-rod piercing the eyes and so died immediately.
The blinded Kooraththu Alwar returned silent to Srirangam... was received by a large crowd.. weaping, lamenting and crying aloud...
But the Alwar consoled them and cried aloud... shedding Bloody-tears... WITH JOY...
..."Oh God, Thank you... You have saved my Great Guru Ramanuja Acharya... from this INHUMAN CALLOUSNESS AND CRUELTY.!!...
... received right from our Protector King...just because of different God-faith...
...Is it our CRIME to be Vaishnava... a NON-SAIVITE? "
.
.
Ramanuja-Acharya was not aware of all these sudden turn of events...
... occurred even before DAY DAWN...
.. since he was away at Kaveri River for early morning bath.
.
.
PERIA-NAMBI Ramanuja-Acharya's Guru... volunteered to join with KOORATHU- AZHWAR...
...just to share with his heavy task of facing the SAIVITE-FANATIC Kulothunga Chozha King.
Only because they did not agree to become Saivites...
...both of those Scholars were victimised by the King.. to be made BLIND... by piercing Hot Rods..
.. which Tyranny PERIA NAMBI, Ramanuja's Guru could not bear...
.. and he immediately died after inexplicable suffering and agony.
. ... at his old-age... 105.
.
.
. Ramanuja's UNIQUE SERVICES to Mankind.
Thanks for your Healthy Comments and Feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
Now I hope You are clear about the True-event... as per my narrative postingQuote:
Originally Posted by smith
This is radically a Cheap and False-Story. I will post the True-event soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
Ramanuja's greatness is that he used to value and honour the views, faiths and sentiments of each and all the sections of the society.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
So although he could convince one and all the opponents to Temple-Entry by the THIRU-KULATHOR (Harijans)...
.. he did not like to force them to accept for the whole year... valuing their sentiments.
So initially he made it as Only one day in a year as the First phase.. then improved it to 3 days... as the second Phase.
Parallelly, the other side... the Harijans, were contented with 3 days in a year, because they feared that the Sanctity of the Temple may be vitiated due to their unorthodoxy..
....eventually adding up to their sins.
Ramanuja's Preachings were :--
(1) Devotion to God is a must for every Human-being irrespective of Caste or any such segmentation of the Society.
(2) Prayer and Worship must be performed directly also... without confining it to the representatives conducting on others behalf... be he a King or a Rich man or a highly Learned Scholar.
(3) Mutual-Love amongst the Devotees is the primary requisite... prior to offering worship or prayer to God...
...since God does not allow nor pardon anybody harbouring hatred or neglect of other devotees of any status..
...from any individual devotee... however great he/she may be in other respects.
In brief...GOD IS LOVE...like the Parents... more than a RULER.!
.
Sudhaama,
I have a few more questions on Sri ramanuja.
1. Some scholars have said that ramanuja lived only upto the age of 80 years & not 120 years as is commonly beleived.
2. Regarding his sannadhi at srirangam, is it that the body was interned & an image raised above it or is it his actual body that has been placed for darshan?
.
.Ramanuja still alive as FLESHY IDOL.!!..God-made.!!!.
Dear Friend "smith1",
Ramanujacharya was born in the year 1017 A.D ... Tamil-Year PINGALA ... Month : CHITHIRAI... Birth Star: THIRUVADHIRAI (Arudra)Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
He lost his last breathe in the Year 1137... Tamil Year PINGALA... Month : CHITHIRAI... Demise-Star : THIRUVADHIRAI (Arudra).
Now you can arrive at the true Arithmatical figure of his Life-time duration... Is it 120 Years ? Or just 80 years?
Immediately after Ramanuja breathed the last, the Asareeri -commandment (Invisible Divine Voice) from Lord Ranganatha, could be heard by one and all in the Temple...Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
(1) "Ramanuja is None else than the ADI-SESHA (holy-Serpent of Maha-Vishnu at Vaikunta-loka)...
(2) He is the UDAYAVAR..(Owner of both the Worlds viz Vaikunta and Bhooloka- Earth and...
... he will rule over the the rest of the Kaliyuga period in the Idol-shape named THAANAANA-THIRUMENI..
...in his present body form of Flesh and Bones... unaffected eternally...
He will be the Protector for those who worship him and follow his Preachings.
(3) So the Acharya's Thirumeni/ Body should not be disposed off, but honourably installed in a separate Sannidhi within my Temple premises...
... and duly worshipped by his Disciples and Devotees... who repose faith in me....
..Because he is my Glorious Godly-Servant of mine at both the worlds.
(4) Whoever believes and worships Ramanuja... will be fully taken care of by me...
...and ultimately granted Moksha / Mukthi / Liberation from further Rebirths.
Accordingly it was carried out by his Disciples.
While there was an Muslim -invasion on the whole of South India, including Ranganatha Temple, to loot its wealth...
...each Vaishnava-Acharya of that time, volunteered to share amongst themselves, the several tasks to protect the Temple, Deities Moolavar / Uthsavar, including this Ramanuja's Shrine.
One of such Acharyas, Swami Desika took up personal commitment to save all the Moolavars, including this Ramanuja's Thirumeni.
Along with his team of followers and devotees, he built up overnight Camouflage walls covering up Ranganatha Moolavar Sannidhi as well as all such Sannidhis, including this Ramanuja-Moolavar's.
He made Duplicate Moolavars for every Sannidhi... posing deceptive looks...
...including Ramanuja's Sannidhi... in another Sannidhi structure fastly raised up in front of the original Ramanuja behind....
A Duplicate Statue made of Wax and Clay was installed in that dubious Sannidhi.
...while the Original Ramanuja's body was smeared by SAANDHU-KAPPU.. a Variety herbal-mix paste...
...to protect the Human Skin by any probable attack of Germs and Anaerobic Bacteria, under coverage in darkness.
As expected, the Muslim Invaders attacked and destroyed all such Duplicate Idols... believing them to be the Originals...
...including Ramanuja's Duplicate idol made by Swami Desika, overnight.
Srirangam whole town, including the Temple, was under the Muslim Invaders rule for about 8 years,
...and later on when it was got extricated back to the Hindu's custody such Camouflage Structures were cleared off, duly reopening all the Original Sannidhis...
...and the customary Vedic poojas and services were restored... by the Hindus then.
But they feared to scrape out the protective Herbal-paste on Ramanuja's body... which action may probably cause pains or any Skin Injury or Damage to the Holy Ramanuja-Moolavar, alive.
Furtheron it has become an Half-Yearly Festival... so called SAANDHU-KAAPU UTHSAVAM...
...to re-apply such Herbal pastes repeatedly over and over.
Besides, there was one more reason. Several bitter experiences in such other holy Hindu shrines, were Lessons to them.
For example, on his last day, Jothi Ramalinga Swami entered a small room at Vadalur after strictly advising his followers, that he was leaving the Earth ultimately...
... and Nobody should open the room for ever in future.
Whereas after a few weeks of the Swamis entry into the room locked up from inside,
...some of his Opponents and Enemies lodged Complaints to the Collector, raising doubts..
...that the Swami had committed Suicide by hanging secretly within the room
Consequently the Locks were broken and the Room was forcibly opened by the British Collector...
...but found the whole room Empty. ! ... It has No Windows or Ventilators !!
..which truth made them realise that Jothi Ramalinga Swami is a Mahaan who had reached Sivaloka..
...by totally disappearing from the World... along with his Body and Dress too... MIRACULOUSLY.!!
So the Ramanuja's disciples did not want to take chances by any such probable future Enemies.
So they wanted to continue in that same deceptive look as if it is just a man-made Sculpture.
There are several stories and episodes on this matter.
Even this posting may be disputed by some on its authenticity.
But this is the Truth... although cannot be proved on its veracity.
Ramanuja's skin only has been protected... but not the Flesh and bones.
The whole body is still in unaffected shape and Life even after about 860 years.
So we strongly believe that ...
.. as the whole-hearted Well-wisher for the entire Global Humanity, irrespective of the multi-facted faiths...
...alongside the Glorious Emancipater of Mankind... on the purpose of Earthly birth...
...the Great Ramanuja... is still alive in His THAANAANA- THIRUMENI... at Srirangam...
...as the currently LIVING GOD on Earth...
... for those who BELIEVE SO.
.
Thanks, sudhama. The vedintha desika episode was news to me.
I read in the net thus :
The traditional biographies of Ramanuja place his life in the period of 1017–1137, yielding a lifespan of 120 years. However, the unusual length and roundness of this lifetime has led scholars to propose that Ramanuja was born 20–60 years later, and died as many as 20 years later than the traditional dates.
Any chronology depends crucially on the major historical event mentioned in the traditional biographies: the persecution of Vaishnavas under the Chola king Kulothunga and Ramanuja's subsequent 12-year exile in Melkote, in Karnataka.
In 1917, T. A. Gopinatha Rao proposed a chronology based on the traditional lifetime of 1017–1137.
He identified the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola I (reigned 1070-1120), and dated the exile to Melkote from 1079 to 1126 CE (Rao 1923 cited in Carman 1974:45).
However, this would extend the period of exile to 47 years, and in any case, Kulothunga I was not known for being an intolerate Shaivite.
A different chronology was proposed by T. N. Subramanian, an official in the Madras government (Subramanian 1957 cited in Carman 1974:45).
This chronology identifies the Chola king with Kulothunga Chola II, who reigned from 1133–50 and was known for his persecution of Vaisnavites. It puts Ramanuja's exile from c. 1137 to 1148.
Subramanian's hypothesis is aided by a fragment from the late Tamil biography Rāmānujārya Divya Caritai, which states that Ramanuja completed his most important work, the Śrībhāṣya, in 1155–56.
Nevertheless, temple inscriptions in Karnataka indicate the presence of Ramanuja and his disciples before 1137. Carman (1974:45) hypothesizes that the traditional biographers conflated two different visits to Mysore into one. This later chronology has been accepted by several scholars, yielding a tentative lifetime of 1077–1157.
Hence my doubt regarding his age.
Regarding the thirumeni, some of my friends said that if it were indeed Ramanauja's body per se, it would have been mentioned in the koil olugu. It has not been done so.
I have had the good fortune of worshipping all the 3 thirumenis of Udaiyavar.
In fact the say I went to to Srirangam this year, I was told that the 'sandhana kaappu" was to be performed 3 days later.
Seems it is performed twice a year. The sannadhi is closed during the "thirumanjanam" & opened only after it is complete.
I also had the privelege of worshipping Udaiyavar on his Jayanthi in 2004 at Sriperumbudur.
I request U to post more on Udaiyavar for the benefit of everyone.
Ur posts have been extremely educative, informative & fulfilling.
.
.SAANDHU KAAPU UTHSAVAM at Srirangam Temple.
Dear "smith1",
Thanks for your lively postings and meaningful questions, enabling me to post the intricate details.
In fact I feel enthused to post more interesting facts...
... due to such wise and pertinent questions...
...from any of our Hubber friends... Globally.
Welcome.
It is not CHANDHANA-KAAPU... but SAANDHU-KAPU... so to say... a SAANDHU / Paste made from several Herbs are applied over the previously applied existing coatings...Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
...during the so called SAANDHU KAPU UTHSAVAM... periodically conducted only at Srirangam Ranganathar Temple...
... to protect the THAANAANA THIRUMENI.
I am not sure... whether it is performed Annually or Half-Yearly.
Our Well-Knowledged Friend (Moderator) Mr Badri knows better on this point.
Dear Mr. Badri... Please clarify.. Is it an Annual or Half-Yearly Celebration?
.
.
It is done twice a year. A mixture of camphor and saffron and other herbs is made into a paste and applied over the tanana thirumeni, which explains why it has an orangish hue.
As always, very interesting posts Sudhaama and smith.
When we went to Srirangam last year we asked about the idol to the Archakar there (since I had also heard that it was Ramanuja himself). The Archakar said that, after hie breathed his last, Ramanuja was interred and then he rose in his present form (like a Swayambu) with the asareeri announcing his resurrection.
I read somewhere that when the invasion happened, Vedanta Desikar took charge of the works of Vaishnavite philosophy, that remained unfinished at the time of Ramanujar's demise and took them with him (to Kanchipuram?), to work on the translations and commentary. And MaNavALa MAmunigaL , along with a Vijayanagar chieftain ensured the safe transportation of the moolavar of the temple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
This was offered by the author as one of the possible root for the sectarian split. One sect claiming lineage to those who undertook to great physical risks to protect the idol, while the other chose an 'easier' path. While the other sect stressed that saving the philosophical works was the bigger contribution.
Perhaps, at some time you deem appropriate to the flow of this thread, you can tell us something about what actually happened at the time of the invasion.
Prabhu,
I beg to differ here. Either the idol is ramanuja himself or else it is a wax image interned over his remains.
I have not heard about your version at all.
Also, vedanta desika lived from 1269 to 1370.
Manavala mamunigal was born only in 1370.
Pillai Lokacarya lived all his life in the great temple of Srirangam. When the temple was raided by Muslims in 1309, tradition says that he walled in large images and took the smaller images to a village for their safety.
:-) Me neither, till the archakar gave this explanation last year when I went to Srirangam.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
Hmmm....guess I goofed. Perhaps I am confusing between MaNavALa MAmunigaL and PiLLai LOkachAryAr. :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
The theory that I cam across was from a book about the Origin of Two Sects - a TTD publication. Authored by a lawyer sometime in the pre independence era.
Sorry I am unable to quote the source exactly.
.
(1) I am sorry we are overstretching the matter.. violating the Secret Code of practice... strictly being adopted by the Disciples of Ramanuja.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
As I have already mentioned, quoting the bitter experience of the Mahan Jothi Ramalinga Swamis case, Ramanuja's followers purposively maintain it as a Secret. So No more discussions please on the Material substance of the Ramanuja Moolavar at Srirangam.
However for the sake of the Acharya's followers.. I highlight here one interesting point.
The Tamil terminology... THAAN AANA THIRUMENI... must clarify all the doubts... which glorifies the holy Moolavar as the worshipful Great.
Let us leave at that.
You are confusing yourselves with Amavasai and Abdul kadar... So to say with unconnected factors. The cause of Sectarian split is radically a different subject altogether unconnected with this event of Muslim invasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
At that time there were NO TWO SRI-VAISHNAVA SECTS... but all One, including Swami Desikar.
It has been proved in the Court of Law categorically and UNDISPUTABLY... in case of Srirangam temple.
Swami Desika took charge of personal custody of Sri-Bhashyam Original Palm-leaf text of Ramanuja, even before the Hindu Temple invasions by foreigners...
..while there was a constant threat from some Jains and Buddhist Kings.
But it is not correct to say... that Ramanuja left any of his works incomplete.
As I already said... immediately on hearing the news of advancement of the Foreign-invaders forces towards Srirangam, all the Sri Vaishnava Acharyas called for a meeting and discussed amicably on the due Protective and Defense measures.
Apart from the subsequent Defensive military counter-fights by the Ranganatha devotees... they protected the Idols Moolavars and Uthsavars under different custodies... well in advance... OVERNIGHT...
...by the selfless toil of the thousands of united devotees at Srirangam.
Pillai-Lokacharya took charge of Ranganatha Uthsavar... called Nam-perumal and carried with him out of the temple. It is a pathetic episode how he sacrificed his life for it.
...those invaders' main target used to be the Hindu Temple Uthsavars...
...on which they took Sadistic- pleasure to denigrate them by using as the Footsteps for their places of worship.
Swami Desika took charge of all the Moolavars and protected them as already detailed hereabove.
.
Dear Sudhaama, Thank You.
:oops: Just some careles reading (quoting) and writing on my part. I was just motivated by curiosity is knowing the history, that is all. Hope I did not come across as being disrespectful regarding this or anywhere else in my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhama
Sudhaama,
I read that Udaiyavar tried to bring abt reforms in temple worship in kerala but was prevented from doing so by the kerala priests & even threatened.
Similarly in Puri Jagannath temple.
Is it true?
The reason for my above posting is not to pass judgement or cast aspersions on Udaiyavar.
I am only concerned that such news posted on the net do not misguide viewers.
Hence I am asking for a clarification.
Regarding his idol at Sriperumbudur, it is called "thaan ugandha thirumeni" (the idol liked by him).
I also read that he breathed life into the idol & as it was being installed at Sriperumbudur, his body started weakening.
Is that correct, Sudhamaji?
I make it a point to meditate for a few minutes in the Srirangam sannadhi of Udaiyavar whenever I go there.
I find scores of people doing so. Many persons have told me that the postive vibrations emanating from Udaiyavar have had a rejuvenating effect on them. I could feel that too.
A friend of mine travels from thanjavur to srirangam once every 6 months just to meditate there. It says it is spiritually enlightening.
I suppose quite a few hubbers would have experinced that too.
.
.Ramanuja's services.. Kerala, Poori, Sree-Koormam
Bhagawad Ramanuja the Awathara of Adi-sesha was sent to Earth by the Parandhaama Narayana...Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
...to set right the Battle-like Living Conditions of Mankind...
...and inculcate the Humane spirits and Soul-realisation.....
...especially by the Devotional approach of the... WHOLE GLOBAL HUMANITY...
...irrespective of Religious differences, Social disparities and Political boundaries.
He never interfered with the other Religions and Faiths... nor criticised them in any manner...
... even as Secondary to Vaishnavam... and that Vishnu-bhakthi is the Supreme-path of devotion...
But he only preached to one and all the Commonman of the Society... to believe God in some form...
...and to follow anyone path propounded by any Acharya of the devotees choice.
Whereas to his disciples... he preached the Greatness of Sri-Vaishnavam... the overall true picture of Vedic sense...
...and for the Questions and Doubts raised to him on God and mundane Life... he clarified all the doubts..
...with the underlying spirit of UNIVERSAL-LOVE...
...coupled with SOCIAL UNITY... and GLOBAL PEACE.
So his Main Scope and Intention was... Not to propogate SRIVAISHNAVAM...
... nor thrust HIS PHILOSOPHIC GOSPEL Visishtadwaitham... on the Non-Seekers...
....unlike all other Acharyas...
...but to emancipate the Humanity availing the abundant divine options available towards the purpose of Human-birth.
He was receiving time to time Divine-instructions from the Lord Narayana...
....and was closely guided and assisted by the Lord Garuda-deva during some of his worst ordeals.
While no doubt the whole Bharatha... so called India... is a Punya-bhoomi...
...Kerala-desa... created anew by the Chiranjeevi Narayana- awathara, called Parasurama... is ever-believed as the God's Land...
...visited by Lord Vamana on their New Years day... every year...
...and in that Vishnu-bhoomi, all the different Gods in their temples are the manifestations of One God... Narayana...
...as propounded by the Great Adi-Sankaracharya.
So all the Gods take care of them.
During Ramanuja's era... after Sankara's era... once there was a decline of proper conduct of Poojas and Orthodox customs stipulated by the Vedic order...
...which culminated in the fast Epidemic spread of Cholera... in the Thiruvangoor region... causing heavy amount of rapid deaths en masse.
Such a sudden onslaught on the people... made an awakening amongst all concerned as well as the Ruler King too...
So they did their best to revive the tradition and set right their failures and setbacks.
At one stage... when they found that such a Social disaster was rising uncontrollably...radically unabated in some regions...
...inspite of their strenuous endeavour... within the bounds of all their mights...
... some people approached Ramanuja and invited him to set his Holy feet there... so that the sins caused by anyone inadvertently... may be pardoned by God.
Accordingly Ramanuja visited Thiruvananthapuram temple and prayed to Lakshmi and Padmanabha... shedding tears... to grace pardon to the innocent people of Kerala.
With the result, Lord Padmanabha answered his prayers immediately... and the Kerala people got their heavy blow of sufferings mitigated miraculously.
Thiruvangoor King duly honoured Bhagawad Ramanuja.
Then the Acharya left the place and visited other Kerala Divya-desas.. so called MALAI NAATTU THIRUPATHIGALH sung by Alwars.
It is not correct to say that Ramanuja tried to preach his Theory... competing over Sankara's Theory....
...and that he was driven out of Kerala by the Adwaithi devotees there.
No. Not at all. Kerala people although mostly Adwaithi followers of Sankaracharya... used to feel like-minded with Ramanuja's disciples too...
... because both the entities are Vaishnavites after all... although different by Philosophic approaches.
At Poori... no doubt the King duly honoured him... where the Acharya introduced many reforms especially the famous Car (Thaer) festival... developing over the lines of the King's wishes.
Ramanuja found fault with the system of poojas conducted at the Poori temple... violating the system of Vishnu-Samhitha... already stipulated by the Sankaracharya.
So he corrected them to properly follow their Guru Sankaracharya's stipulations on the Temple Poojas and Festivals order.
But the local people at Poori... got enchanted by the Ramanuja's daily discourses... and fastly became his disciples en masse.
This sweeping trend caused a fear and jealousy in the minds of some local Adwaithi Gurus...
...who decided to secretly abduct and kill Ramanuja... overnight.
While Ramanuja along with his assistants were asleep at midnight... his Mutt was surrounded by the miscreants holding deadly weapons, as directed by such wicked Gurus...
Then a Miracle happened !!... When the violent attackers forcibly entered the mutt... Ramanuja was found sleeping there... but suddenly disappeared.!..
...both the visions of presence and disappearance winessed by not only all the people in the mutt, but also the Rowdy Gang.
All of them got puzzled.!!
When Ramanuja woke up at the subsequent pre-dawn hours... he found himself lying solitarily, on the banks of the Temple Tank at Sri-Koormam... of Andhra.
He wondered and prayed to God... why and who brought him there.?
Smilingly Garuda-deva appeared and told that it was He who lifted him out of Poori-mutt...
... narrated the violent background there while the Acharya was ignorantly and innocently asleep.
.. and that he was urgently needed to solve a local dispute at Sree-Koormam temple
Accordingly Ramanuja solved the tough dispute at Sree-Koormam temple, easily and quite amicably.
It is another interesting Episode.
.
Sudhama,
Thank you for the illuminating posts. Please continue.
I have also heard that Udaiyavar nominated women successors to the various mutts. But over the years that has been diluted. What is the reason?
Dear Mr Sudhaama,
It is good to have you in this Hub along with some other very knowledgeable persons...
Thanks for your very valuable posts.
Please carry on so that we can learn more and more and more from such Great Beings!
.
.INVITED to ENJOY Reading.! and COMMENT Please.!!
Those who can read Tamil... are invited to read my Serial Article :
...THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI... in our Hub Monthly Magazine.
...which is written with a Broad-outlook... in the true Sense and Spirit of Thiruvaaymozhi...
...in a NON-SECTARIAN Approach... acclaimed to be QUITE INTERESTING to even any common man... as per Feedback so far.
Being a very simple style... coupled with several stories or events related to the Topic.. it must be interesting to you too.
Invariably each Article of the month contains some Life-episodes, Events and Stories of Ramanuja too... in relation to the Topic.
With matching Pictures and Audio URLs... I believe... YOU ALL WILL LIKE IT.
Am I correct?... Is it interesting to You?... Any Doubts and Comments are Welcome.
I am anxious to reply.... WELCOME Please.
August 07 issue.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug07/?t=10166
Thanking you with Best Wishes...
Affectionately.... Your SUDHAAMA.
.
sudhama,
I am unable to read the font in Ur serial article.
Request U to post updates on Udaiyavar in this forum itself.
.
.Homely Food.. and Restaurant Foods.!!
Dear Smith1,Quote:
Originally Posted by smith1
Have you Clicked... TAMIL FONT HELP...?...
...and Downloaded MURASU ANJAL Tamil Font.?
This Forum in English... I handle in a different angle, in the general perspective...
... under the common aspect of SOCIAL-PURVIEW mostly..
...while superficially touching other aspects.
Whereas under my Tamil Article Serial...
...THAMIZH MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI... of our Hub Magzine..
...You can find more interesting Reading-matter with matching lively Pictures and Audios...
...alongside the unique presentations of the Text in a light style... with Narrations of Stories, Anecdotes, Events and Episodes...
...important Life-codes, Morals, Doubts on Life, Rudiments on God, Purpose of Human-birth on Earth, and Dilemmas on practical Life-Problems... etc.
...in the Global Human-sense...
... applicable to any Common-man, irrespective of Religion and Nationality or any such boundaries.
It includes Ramanujacharya's Biography too... invariably in each monthly issue.
It has been appreciated and received well by many so far.
And so I am sure You also will like reading it.
Please try once again to get the Font.. Read and Comment.
... Welcome.!!! ENJOY READING.!!!
August 07 issue.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/aug07/?t=10166
Whereas here, in this Forum let us all DISCUSS...
...MUTUAL-EXCHANGE of Knowledge, Thoughts, Opinions and Conclusions...
..as also Doubts and Questions if any.... for which I will try to reply.
In brief... that Tamil Article under Hub-Magazine is a HOMELY FOOD...
...prepared by a Mother and served to her Family-members and Guests.
While this Forum is a RESTAURANT... where the Foods are prepared by several cooks...
...and served according to the SEEKERS' CHOICE and Preferences.!!
.
.
. Repayment of Gratitude.?.. !!
Incorrect and Distorted Version... denigrating the Seers so Cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
The True Episode... exemplary for Selfless approach of the Acharya and the Disciples... caught unaware at a critical moment.... I have already posted.
Further if any you have to ask... please speak out. Welcome.
I do not follow...What you mean.!Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
What is meant by Large-Heartedness.?.. To declare a False statement as True... contrary to Vedas?
Should the Acharya or his Disciples obediently bow down to the commands of the King and declare any Untruth as Truth?
There was no such event... confronting Robberers by Ramanuja on the way to Delhi.Quote:
Originally Posted by smith
Even if it were true... why should the Acharya repay his Gratitude by just allowing the Harijans in the Temple at Melkote.?
Better they could have been rewarded by Wealth and Properties... which the Mysore King would have granted... on the Udayavar's commands.
Whereas in another case... while Ramanuja in exile... enroute to Melnadu (Mysore state) from Srirangam in Chozha-desam...
...not to get caught by the chasing Chozha warriors... (on the commands of the Fanatic Sadist Kulothunga King.)
...had to stay hiding their whole convoy entourage for a few nights at different Hamlets of Tamilian Aboriginals... callously downtrodden ... rotting amidst the thick jungle.
Those Aboriginals named PARAYAS and CHANDALAS... the Debarred citizens of Chozha-Nadu... being the Loyalists of the erstwhile Kings defeated...
Those evicted innocent citizens held high status during the previous regimes... regarded highly and Trusted Direct-Assistants of Kings... being Ministers, Military Commanders, Spies and Suicide Squad-members... etc.
...directly dealing with the previous Kings as their Trustworthy Patriots of the Kingdom.
When Ramanuja had to stay within their Hamlets... they avoided meeting him...
...because they SELF-DENIGRATED themselves as the Worst Sinners, being the Untouchables...
...while the Acharya was the Divine birth.
Ramanuja could have just kept hiding silently... without any other activity there... other than his purpose of visit.
But he took it as the best God-given opportunity to have a close rapport with the downtrodden and understanding the Real situation.
He went in search of them... called for the congregation of all the Residents to one Hut-Assembly...
..and had free exchange of discussions on Facts, Thoughts and News.
He felt not only much pained to see their pathetic ordeal.. and Sub-human Animal-like Living- condition...
...due to the autocratic INHUMAN TREATMENT meted out by the so-called Protector-Kings, the Rulers..
...to an INNOCENT & BLOTLESS section of exemplary Good people deserving Glory.!...
...and also surprised to know of their Self-denigrative attitude... considering themselves as unqualified to mingle with the Overall Society.
Ramanuja broke such a False-belief... unfounded by any Religious Doctrine or Social-Law... and convinced them to raise themselves up by means of his support.
He advised them not to return to their Original country Chozha-Nadu... where they are unwanted and evicted Aboriginals...
...but to make their living in the adjacent Melnadu... after hearing from him in the near future.
Accordingly, as soon as Ramanuja stabilised his position well with the Mysore King...
...with his consent, Ramanuja got all the Tamilian-aboriginals... shifted to Mysore Region and got them well-settled there...
...providing adequate means for Living, Well-being and Human-dignity... at par with the other local citizens.
Then as the next step... after getting over all sorts of Obstacles and Objections from the King and Pandits...
...as also the RELUCTANCE OF THE DOWNTRODDEN... being disinterested in Bhakthi cult...
..alongside their Fear that they may become the Worst Sinners... by means of their Temple-entry... since the Sanctity might be vitiated by the untouchables close contacts...
Ramanuja took them into the Temple... after convincing on the true sense of Humanity in the United Society of sorts...
...and inculcating in them the Devotional spirit of God-faith... and Social Integrity.
Ramanuja categorically asserted.... that the Primary duty of One and all...is the...
..Humane Spirit of Social-Equanimity plus God-faith... without exception.
.
.
"Why should we worship God?
Is it not YOU people’s duty to pray on our behalf?"...
...Tribes asked Ramanuja.
Ramanuja replied “Social duties have been distributed and specifically assigned to every Community amongst the Subjects of the Kingdom… so to say the people…
…so as to ensure … Each and every Social-demands of the Overall Society is radically taken care of… unfailingly.
According to such a prevalent rule of Law… One community has been assigned to perform SPIRITUAL DUTIES... through Soul-might...
..such as Chanting Vedas and other Recitations, performing Yagas, Rituals and Poojas, Teaching, Preaching and the like transcendental pursuits…
…so as to take care of the Divine-commitments for fetching the God’s grace towards the benefit of the overall Society…
… especially for getting the due showers of Rains.. by way of regular periodicity as well as by the apt quantum…
..abundant growth of Farm-products and Cattle-wealth like Cow’s Milk …
…Non occurrence of Natural calamities, Disasters, Epidemics etc.
But that does not mean… other communities are totally absolved from their rudimentary Human-commitments and the basic Moral-duties…
…to worship God for the sake of confirmation of one’s own God faith…
…for our own well-being and God’s grace for the individual’s Life-Success…
…as well as to pay our Gratitude to God..
...for every Unparallel support and Divine advantage we received from that Super-human power.
In brief.. God-worship in some Form and Pursuit of the Individual’s choice and convenience…
…is a MUST for every Human-being in his/her own interests…
… of Meaningful Life and Purpose.
You have wide Options and Freedom to choose and adopt... from amongst the Varied Choices.
Whichever path you may resort to and whatever God form… you may repose faith…
…indeed you will get the grace of God EQUALLY.
But do not forget that the God is One… He is Lakshmi-Narayana who is showering you the grace from behind all.
Similar to all the Rivers ultimately reaching one Ocean…
…all your prayers to different God-forms reach ultimately that One and the same Goal…
..which is the ORIGIN too.. for all !.. ...as categorically declared by Vedas.
That One God... Supreme God "Sriman Narayana"… answers your prayers…
...directly or indirectly as you individually approach..
...and showers His benign grace to all.! REMEMBER.!!!"
.
Sudamaaji,
Keep posting reularly.
Your Knowledge is good tonic for us.
Will this Lakshmi-Narayana ever have time to restore peace in Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iraq ? Aren't the prayers from people of those region doesn't reach him ? Is the mobile signal weak...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
BS!!!
.
.What one sows... he reaps.!!
For the SUICIDAL ACTIONS of ... ALL CONCERNED... we cannot blame God.Quote:
Originally Posted by komban
The Sufferers are facing the Consequences of their PAST MISDEEDS.!
What Ramanujacharya or Lakshmi-Narayana... have to do.?
.