If you think Iruvar is better than Nayagan ,I have no arguements ,Pls carry on!Quote:
Originally Posted by nilavupriyan
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If you think Iruvar is better than Nayagan ,I have no arguements ,Pls carry on!Quote:
Originally Posted by nilavupriyan
just thought the former is original!
i just loved kamal in the latter...after seeing gf...i thought ..direction and making are really not original!
athane.. How cud Iruvar be better than Godfather , sorry nayagan :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Ah, a little squabble I see.
Why not start a thread Iruvar vs Nayagan. I will vote for the former, hehe.
I enjoyed both tremendously. Of course, when I saw the sources for Nayagan's 'inspiration' I was heartbroken. Cheated. But I forgive Mani. He was starting out, and nowadays even Hollywood borrows shamelessly from other films.
I enjoyed Iruvar, knowing very well where the story is based on, and also knowing very well that Mani is not going to adhere very strongly to the actual facts.
He was concentrating on the tales of two buddies. This is almost Talabathi's sequel. Its about friendship, at the end of the day.
The best thing about this movie is of course the two leads. Mohanlal did not attempt to copy MGR at all. He did his own intepretation. I like the scenes Nilavupriyan pointed out. Very good acting, clean and pure.
As Joe requested, we can agree to disagree. If not, this forum will be boring.
Grouch,
You felt cheated when you found 'Nayagan' was not original ..The same way I felt for 'Iruvar' ..when this movie in production ,as usual mani was making all sorts of publicity stund as if he is making a movie out of MGR-kalainjar relationship ..That cause the huge flop of this movie .I went to watch this movie on the day of release itself and terribily disappointed with the movie ..The reason is not just it didn't reflect that MGR-kalainjar friendship ..If it is totally different ,I didn't bother .But he made a impression as if it is MGR-kalainjar story ,but nothing conveyed constructively ,but mostly are twists from the facts ,which I felt he tried to impose his wrong ideas and understanding to the public .Fortunately ,people also rejected this movie. That proves technical brilliance,good acting ,good songa can't save a movie if it gives a twisted wrong message.I was happy about it.
Mamamia! Looking at the number of comma's in your post. Now, I am convinced that you feel very strongly against the film.
As I said, as you requested, we shall agree to disagree.
I think Mani toned down many of the historic elements. Also, there have been visible and audible censorship involved. The damnedest thing that Mani has to face was that many of those characters are still alive and they are watching. My brother always says that this film would have been better if the principle characters are no longer around. Mani could have had more freedom.
Doing a honest-to-god biographical pix is a no-no in Tamil film industry - unless everyone is dead. Judging from your reaction, I think the audience would have appreciated it if they had NOT known that it will be based on MGR/Kalaignar.
Number one reason I like the film was the performance by Mohanlal and Prakashraj. And I loved the music, brilliant. First time I got to hear unadulterated classic jazz in Tamil film. Background score is astounding...one of ARRs best.
Cinematography? Well, you know Mani. He tends to be showy. Some were good, some were pretentious.
Script? Lines were by his wife, Suhasini, and the kavithai part was Vairamuthu. He managed to capture Kalaignar's spirit, but still does come off sounding like Vairamuthu. The dialogues were solid. Its just that sometimes actors in Manirathnam's film sometimes made to sound as if they are rushing to the lavatory. Director's branding. KB has his (repeating certain phrases).
Mani is not THE best director, he is one of the good ones out there. And Iruvar, in my book, ranks high in his stable.
Can u substantiate ur views above & justify ur contention ?Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
i havent heard mani saying its abt mk or mgr!he said its abt two friends..thats it!
"Nayagan" though seems to be well copied movie of GF..... it is very well adapted to the local Indian context which is important and some exemplary acting by every one ... which is not the normal case in most of the indian movies which are copied from west.
I guess attempting a " top 10 of all time" list is always going to be tricky but hey, that's the fun.
Here's my top 10, in attempted chronological order
1) Andha Naal (Sivaji wr: Javer Seetharaman dir: S.Balachander)
2) Thillana Mohanambal (Sivaji,Padmini, wr: Kothamangalam Subbu and AP Nagarajan dir:AP Nagarajan)
3) Avargal (Sujatha,Rajini,Kamal wr & dir: K.Balachander)
4) Pathinaru VayathinilE (Sridevi,Kamal,Rajini,wr &dir: Barathiraja)
5) Veedu (Archana, wr & dir: Balu Mahendra)
6) Nayagan (Kamal, wr: MR and Balakumaran dir: Mani Ratnam)
7) Michaelmadanakamarajan (wr: Kamal and Crazy Mohan dir: Singeetham Srinivasa Rao :-) )
8) ThEvar Magan (wr: Kamal dir: Bharathan :-))
9) Mahanadhi (wr: Kamal and Ra.Ki.Rangarajan dir: Santhanabarathi :-) :-) )
10) Hey ! Ram (wr & dir: Kamal !)
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pls don say songs good..even choreography copied..if you hapnd to see..? GENE KELLY..'broadway rhythm..'the hoofer meets the vixen 'Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
athaan ..helo mister edir katchii..
enna reeeellpaa !.. :hammer: :hammer:
That's quite a list. Infact, I made one when Rediff ran a series on Top 10 films. And many in your list overlap with mine :) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
1.Rajini
2.Vijay
3.Kamal
4.Vikram
5.Surya
Great :-) Out with your list.Quote:
Originally Posted by kannannn
Top 10 movies will be a diificult thing to decide.
Keeping My top 10 which comes to mind as of now. Trying to keep a list which could accomadate different period and stars.
1. Mahanadi
2. Muthal Mariyathai
3. Aayirathil Oruvan
4. Johny
5. MMKR
6. Mouna Raagam
7. Kaathalikka Neramillai
8. Thevar Magan
9. Anbe Sivam
10. Antha 7 naatkal
:)
Top Ten is tough...here's mine...not in any order...
1. Hey! Ram
2. Kuruthi Punal
3. Aalavanthaan
4. Kaaka Kaaka
5. Anbe Sivam
6. Virumaandi
7. Jhonny
8. Pithamagan
9. Nayagan
10. Thalapathy
Here goes mine:
Andha Naal: When dramas with song and dance routines were the norm, S. Balachandar made a daringly different movie. The movie made all the more special by a stylish Shivaji. Watch out for the scene, where a smoking Shivaji and his lover are silhoutted against the park background. THAT is style for you.
Uththama Puthiran: Sridhar's version of 'Man in the Iron Mask' is a treat to watch even today. Technically brilliant, I rate this as Nambiar's best performance.
Unnaipol Oruvan: The north had Shantaram, Ghatak, Ray, Sen and many others during the 50's and 60's. In contrast, we had to be content with the loud, commercial cinema, that was our staple diet. Jayakandhan's Unnaipol Oruvan was a worthy effort, capable of comparison to works of the masters above. We know him as a great writer. Unnaipol Oruvan, showed what a great director he was too. I think that was the only film he made. Pity.
Veedu: Forward to the 80's. This era saw the New Wave Cinema take center stage in Kannada and Malayalam in South India that started in the 70's. It still continues in Malayalam today. Sadly, Tamil film makers missed out on this great oppurtunity. Well, not all. There was Balumahendra. Veedu was a tribute to the 'never say die' attitude of the Great Indian Middleclass. Illayaraja's background score greatly enhaced the artistic value of this film
Sandhya Ragam: This time Balumahendra tackles old age. And Chockalinga Bagavatar gave one terrific performance.
MMKR: This will be the benchmark for all comedies and multiple roles. Kamal and 'Crazy' Mohan combine to give the best comedy in Tamil Cinema. Kamal's penchant for perfection shows in every scene, every body movement. Let's see if anyone can better this comedy.
Hey Ram: An absolute classic. That a film was not appreciated in it's own time is a phrase used for many films, but it truly applies to this. I think it was Kamal's best performance to date. As a director, he showed that, given the freedom, he can push the boundaries of film making in tamil. His passion shows in every frame.
Thaneer Thaneer: Balachandar's treatment of governement apathy and struggle for survival of India's villagers is as relevant today as ever.
Nayagan: Much has been said about Nayagan. I don't have anything to add.
Sigappu Rojakkal: Bharathiraja's finest. Bharatiraja moves so effortlessly to a city theme, after giving '16 Vayadhinile' and proves that he is a master of both. Crime thrillers don't get any better.
It was tough to leave out these, but the list has place for only 10 - Agraharathil Kazhudai, Kadhalikka Neramillai and Vedham Pudhidhu.
KADHAL KOTTAI :bluejump: :clap:
VAALI :bluejump: :clap:
THALAPATHY :D
NAYAGAN :D
RAMANA 8-)
SETHU :)
MANMADHAN :D
KADHAL KONDEN :roll:
KADHAL :cry:
AUTOGRAPH :)
I think you never seen a movie released before 80'sQuote:
Originally Posted by RATHEESHAJITH
You mean the 80s stage dramas?Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Imsai!Quote:
Originally Posted by imsai
JOE,
NAYAGAN AND THALAPATHY RELEASED
BEFORE 1980 :huh:
ANYWAY HERE IS 80'S BEST HITS
PADIKKATHAVAN
IDHAYA KOVIL
APOORVA SAGOTHARARGAL
MOUNA RAAGAM
MOONDRAM PIRAI
KARAGAATTAKARAN
SIGAPPU ROJAAKKAL
ANTHA 7 NAATKAL
NINAITHAALE INIKKUM
CHINNA KOUNDER
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry2:Quote:
Originally Posted by RATHEESHAJITH
:lol: :cry: :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by great
Nice list kannannn. Five matches between us.
You mentioned the exact scene that made me sit up in Andha Naal :-) Let me chew on the differences in our lists.
I haven't seen UnnaippOl oruvan and Agraharathil Kazuthai (though I've heard a lot about them).
I was reluctant about putting Veedu and Sandhya Raagam both on my list. Perhaps one should be allowed to list them both in one slot :-) But having to choose I think Veedu was ahead.
I watched Uthamaputhiran just once, and that too long back. But I see Thillana Mohanambal every now and then.
Sigappu Rojakkal ahead of 16 vayathinile is something I have to try a bit to come to terms with.
'Thanneer Thanneer' was a tad Balachandarish for me. He is not among my favourite directors. I know he did a lot of things in his career and all but I have never been able to thoroughly enjoy a KB movie (except Thillu Mullu). And IMO AvargaL was one of the less KBish movie. It was much less melodramatic than the unduly popular 'avaL oru thodarkathai'.
enakku pidicha Top Ten Movies...
1. Anniyan
2. Indian
3. Citizen
4. Baatcha
5. Red
6. Kaadhal Kondaen
7. Kaadhal Desam
8. Friends
9. Annamalai
10 . Gillli
Top Ten Songs
1. Snekithanae - Alai Paayuthae
2. Thalattum Kattrae Vaa - Poovellam Un Vaasam
3. Munn Paniyaa - Nandha
4. Kaadhal Rojavae - Roja
5. MGR All Songs
6. Rajini All Songs
7. Evano Oruvan Vaasikkiraan - Alai Paayuthae
8. Inji Iduppazhagi
9. Vandhae Maatharam - Paramasivan
10. Vijay All Songs
Actors...
1. MGR
2. Vijay
3. Ajith
4. Rajini
5. Kamal
6. Arun Paandiyan
7. Maadhavan
8. Dhanush
9. Simbu
10. VijayaKanth
(Not in any particular order)
Thiruvilayadal
Johny
16 Vayadhinile
Moondram Pirai
Mudhal Mariyadhai/Vedam Pudhidhu
MMKR
Thevar Magan
Mahanadhi
Hey Ram
Kadhal
Almost there: Vietnam Veedu, Andha Naal, Veedu, Pesum Padam, Aboorva Sagodharargal, Kannathil Muthamittaal
I too was hesistant in putting them both, but Sandhya Ragam was very effective in conveying what it wanted to, just like Veedu. I also wanted to acknowledge Chockalinga Bhagavatar's fine acting and the fact that he carried the whole film on his shoulders. Guess it's not for nothing that people like Balumahendra and Kamal value actors from theater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
I too like Thillana Mohanambal for reasons you mentioned in the NT thread. But, much as Nambiar's character was a major asset in Uthama Puthiran, his character proved to be the sore point in Thillana Mohanambal. It just didn't fit into the movie and affected the final product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
And there are other reasons for Uthama Puthiran's presence. I am a big fan of Sridhar and feel that he deserves much more appreciation for what he has done to tamil cinema than he gets. His screenplays and dialogues were very sophisticated for his time, Uthama Puthiran being a fine example.
The reason I chose Sigappu Rojakkal ahead of 16 Vayathinile is 'cos of Bharatiraja's treatment. I think 16 Vayathinile was a little too sentimental. In contrast, Sigappu Rojakkal was a very bold and dispassionate treatment of it's subject. Everything just falls in place in the movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
I share your sentiments on Balachandar. He wouldn't find a place in my list of favourite directors. I thought Thaneer Thaneer was different from his other movies though (probably 'cos it was adapted). Except for the 'Megam Karukkudhu' song, the movie was impeccable, with hard-hitting dry humor running throughout the movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
1. ULTIMATE STAR AJITH [ THE KING OF TAMIL CINE FIELD]
SUPER STAR MOHANLAL [ THE KING OF MALAYALAM CINE FIELD]
2. SUPER STAR RAJINI [ KING OF OPENING]
3. PADMASREE KAMALHAASAN [ INDIAN JAMESBOND]
4. SIMBHU [ THE YOUNG ALLROUNDER]
5. DILEEP [ THE YOUNG GUN]
Groucho, I share your enthusiasm for Iruvar. Brilliant movies failing at the BO are not rare; Karnan and Hey Ram come to mind immediately.
Iruvar was an excellent attempt at film making, but lacked in cohesion and of course in attracting the masses. It will remain as a moving testimony of Tamil cinema. Kudos to Maniratnam for even attempting the movie.
p/s: I remember reading that the movie's making was under tight secrecy and very little hype was created for it.
Best Actors
I'd rather go according to the period as it is impossible to compare different generations:
60s era
1. Sivaji Ganesan
2. Gemini Ganesh, Muthuraman, SV Subbiah, Ranga Rao, -------- will add more later
(I will have to omit MGR as he wil be remembered as a great personality rather than as a great actor.)
70s & 80s era
1. Kamalahasan
2. Sivakumar (later years), -------- will add more later
(Again I omit Rajini for similar reasons as MGR - it is true that Rajini acted well in some of his earier movies, but not enough to be in this league.)
Present era
1. Vikram, Madhavan, Surya
(Ajith showed promise in his earlier movies, but didnt keep up the momentum. Vijay is a mass artiste. Funny thing is one can't laugh while one can't cry - two prerequistes for good acting skills.)
Kinda quiet in the hub ain't it, Nov?
Anyway, interesting observation on Iruvar. Highly underrated, just because it was compared to MGR/KK relationship
Note to Joe: we discussed it earlier, Joe, and agreed to disagree. I like the way you put it
And I recall that there were not much hype as well. Originally titled Anandham, Mani tested Sarath and Sathyaraj for the roles (which, I can't recall, but I think must be for Tamilselvan role, because Mani may already have Mohanlal for Anandhan).
Performance-wise we saw a great contrast, Mohanlal subdued and restrained, and Prakashraj generous on his strong dialogue delivery and very naked on a more agressive emotions like anger and jealousy. Two sides of the same coin. It's a cliche expression, but it fits here.
I like the fact that you broke down into periods when listing best actors. What's your top ten (as per the title of this thread)? I have mine in my site. Don't intend to change it. Yours?
Phew! That's a dangerous ground you are threading. If the hubbers are much more broadminded and are able to take criticism generously, I'd have more to say about, ahem, those two stars, but I shall refrain from doing so. But your remarks are done tactfully, congratulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
:shock: ..... :confused2:Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
It is? I didnt notice. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
Yeah I noticed. Joe is mature enoug to accept difference of opinons. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
... and so aptly titled Iruvar.Quote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
If you like the vennilaa vennilaa song, do give Sillendru Oru Kaathu song a try. Need to get used to the voice, but the orchestration is superb! :thumbsup:
I dont think I will attempt it - too much of work. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
Sivaji's movies will top most for sure. I also like Raththa Kanneer, KB movies, KS Gopalakrishnan social movies, Sridhar's earlier works, Mahendran's movies, Balu Mahendra, Bakiyaraj, etc etc. Endless list.
Current favourites would be Maniratnam and Shankar. A lot of newbies look promising but need more samples for accessing.
:ty:Quote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
I have posted my opinion, and therefore dont see why anyone should get riled up over what I feel. :huh:
Villain, Madhavan has shown variety; his crowning performance was in Anbe Sivam where he held his own against Kamal. No small feat that one.
In my book, Madhavan gets better mark. But lets not go into that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by villan007
groucho, see my response above your post. :)
I did. The title song is amazing. Its Big Band Jazz, puts your right in the middle of Las Vegas. Wonder if contemporary audience will accept it...Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
If I list out with period classification (as done by Nov)
60's & Mid 70
----
1.Nadigar Thilagam
2.M.R.Radha
3.Nagesh
4.Ranga Rao
5.Bhalaih
Mid70s &80
-----
1.kamal Hassan
2.Sivakumar
Current
-------
1.Vikram
2.Naser
Have been closely watching this thread offlate :lol:
The very mention of sivakumar :shock: ed me !!
I have seen quite a few movies of him to judge him myself. He was pretty good in sindhu bhairavi. He wasnt that impressive in annakkiLi. Anything else am missing?? rOsaappuu ravikkaikkaari I think, he wasnt that impressive.. Actually I liked his performance in some 90s movies (kaathalukku mariyaathai, sEthu).. Anyway thats my perception!
If I have to make a top 10
Actors:
nadigar thilagam
kamal
M R Radha
Rajinikanth
Nasser
................
Movies (not in any order)
antha naaL
paraasakthi
thillaana mOhanaambaaL
kaiy koduththa dheivam
mahAnadhi
thEvar magan
uthirip puukkaL
muLLum malarum
16 vayathinilE
muthal mariyaathai
Cannot exclude this: mouna raagam