10 ஹிந்தி சினிமா எக்ஸ்ட்ராஸ் என்று படிக்கவும்.
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10 ஹிந்தி சினிமா எக்ஸ்ட்ராஸ் என்று படிக்கவும்.
SVN: "குலுக்கு நடிகை" ஆஹா!! பிரமாதம் பிரமாதம்!! அர்புதமான விவரிப்பு!!
Kamal Hassan is still ONLY a Padma Shree!! i cant believe this injustice!
இதப் படிங்க ;)
This needs a standing ovation!
by Ratan on Jan 27, 2009 12:25 AM Permalink | Hide replies
The original ITEM madam Helen is the second wife of one of the script-writers of Sholay and is the step-mother of Bharat Ratna-deserving Salman Khan! What more justification is needed to get a Padmashri? Too bad she wasn\'t considered for the Padma bhushans and Vibhushans.
Next year, we should expect Padma awards to the following ;artists@:
Rakhi Sawant (for being herself)
Silk Smita (posthumously awarded for being the Helen of the 80\'s)
Annu Malik and Pritam (for being such shameless plagiarists)
Sajid Khan (for being such a wonderfully lovable character and promoting (ph)art in Hindi cinema)
Uday Chopra (for being Yash Chopra\'s accidental son)
Shakti Kapoor (for educating the common man on the salient features of casting couch)
... the list goes on. Anyone wants to add more names to this list?
I do know that bringing ARR in is bound to reap posts of sour grapes especially at this point of time but not when my posts have not been clearly deciphered yet. Only talking about their views of music by using their path taken as a guideline. Might be wrong about ARR but no sour grapes here. Never undermined him as a talent or success and neither mentioned about IR as the deserved one or so, just talking about their paths.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOV
And yes Plum, your correct. In that case i did not really look at ARR's interviews closely then. I mistook him for more of the person who wanted to set a unreachable standard for a film music composer. :D
Anyway as for us fans recognising IR, well the biggest award for IR is that people still want him to compose despite him not even reverting to the trend that is nowadays and still glorify him is good enough.
To RR , who objected that I am doing a personal attack on Fr.Gasper Jegath,
please read this and you will know what Fr.Jegath's main work is :)
http://www.hindu.com/2009/01/27/stor...2752060500.htm
"Fr.Gasper said Christianity should be a catalyst of change in society. "
Now Mr.RR, will you be able to censor and edit that news in The Hindu ? ;)
There was a time when I only listened to Metallica, Iron Maiden, Pink Floyd etc. I started listening to Tamil film music only because of ARR. My first few Tamil CDs were all ARR's. Only then I started listening to IR. Maybe the world will follow the same path :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
>> Now Mr.RR, will you be able to censor and edit that news in The Hindu ?
raja_fan: Well.. why should I? None of my business.
BTW you are 52nd person telling this as per our fellow hubber 'Maddy's account. :lol: I met a NorthIndian Few days back who said the same..hmmmm...நதி எங்கு செல்லும் கடல்தன்னை தேடி... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ananth222
yeah athukkum mela enna irukkunu thedum pothu inga thanae vara mudiyum :)
Plum,
Kind of liked your matured post...But yeah I have some arguements against some points in your post, which If I write may lead to unwarranted 'Ghoshti' Thagaraaru :twisted:
Well Finally you have summed it up right... these 3 composers will be seen as the Trinity of Tamil Film Music down the line, and Raaja will be the Thyagaraja swamigal of them :wink:
RS, it is not so much maturity but a kind of inner feeling that I have understood Him(IR). I might be wrong but I dont feel that anguish anymore - I went through that phase of agony and irritation at his lack of recognition but I am at peace now with respect to him. It is like I know he is great, I know(rather than feel) that he will be remembered for centuries.
Yes, I agree that he will be the Thyagaraja of the trinity. Shaking strings in the heart. In many ways, one can say MSV is technically very accomplished and was the one to establish the pattern of light music - which is recognised in his title Mellisai Mannar but IR has that special something where he can simply touch emotions.
But try thinking of him as (only) one of Bach, Beethoven or Mozart :-). I am not at all able to choose here :-).
One important point about being remembered for posterity - is that quality of recording et al will not matter. We dont know how Mozart showcased his symphonies. We have the notes however and thats what has captured his legacy. In this, I wish there was a way for IR to retian his scoresheets, digitalize them or something and nationalize them. Discounting the fact that this will lead to TV serial makers making free use, it ensures that his genius is available for future generations. I am sure that 100 yeras hence, someone who accidentally comes across these notes in a legacy library will exclaim "holy God, I have a treasure trove here" and rediscovers IR for the next century. In a very very greedy, soupy, syrupy way, I wish I am reborn as that person. Though I suppose Rajasaranam has the best claim to that position - only he may not believe in rebirths - so yeah I should recognise that I dont deserve to be that person. :-)
Well, maybe, this nationalising can be done a couple of decades down the line just like with Bharathiyar's works were in 1950. I hope his descendants are prosperous enough not to hold on to his copyright.
IR's progeny has atleast this much of duty towards the nation and the nation's musical legacy.
This works in classical music where every part is written down by the composer. But it won't work in our case. Even for carnatic krithis, there are many for which only the lyrics have been preserved, and contemporary singers give their own renditions (sometimes completely not knowing how the original was sung, esp. older songs like Purandaradasa's). IR's film classics will fall into this category, as he often describes parts to musicians verbally (esp. percussions), possibly with the exception of HeyRam, Guru etc. It might be a different story in case of works like HTNI, NBW or TiS - and IR must do more of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Ananth, exactly. That is why I am thinking we need to do two things:
1) The ones with scoresheet already like TiS, HTNI , Hey Ram, the scoresheets need to be preserved
2) We need to identify other classics and get a scoresheet done for them. Who can do it? VS Narasimhan? Raja himself? Or maybe Karthik Raja, who certainly owes it to his father? No idea how this can be made to work as it involves help from the Raja family.
The works of Bach have been catalogued systematically, using a system called "BWV" or Bach-Werke-Verzeichnis (Bach Works Catalogue) . For instance, the famous bourree used by IR in HTNI is BWV996 and the Violin partita in HTNI (hamsadwani) is BWV1006. Maybe IR's works could also be catalogued like that.
http://www.jsbach.org/index.html
Judging by the foresight / commitment to posterity shown by the people in the industry, I think it would be up to us fans to do anything about it.
To me IR == MSV Version 2.0. Just decrease the ICM content in a MSV song and increase the WCM content to get an IR version.
Yeah, like Sugarcane = Old MonkQuote:
Originally Posted by kiru
Completely disagree!
yenpa, IR-ARR tholla poraadhu'nnu idhu veraya??Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
http://dailypioneer.com/152164/Slumd...ng-Hindus.html
Good lines from above article:
Those Indian musicians who haven’t got the Golden
Globe are not worthy of honour at home just as Sahitya Akademi award winners are not worthy of finding space on our bookshelves, leave alone feature on news pages or news bulletins.
The larger point is not really about going gaga over an American award or a British prize, but how they are seen as India being admitted into the charmed circle whose membership is strictly controlled and is by invitation only. That invitation invariably follows a certain pattern;
it’s not merely the keepers of the gate chanting, “Eeny meeny miny mo,catch a tiger by his toe, if he hollers let him go…” Apart from the fact that the ‘tigers’ in this case are not hollering but salivating at the prospect of seeing themselves clutching a handful of trophies
on Oscar night, the nomination process is far more rigorous than we would think, with filters to keep out those films and books that do not serve the judges’ purpose or pander to their fanciful notions — in
this case, of India.
raja_fan
Romba try panreenga pola :lol2:
crajkumar_be,
eppavum romba thelivaa pesuveenga pola :lol2:
good, but its presence in this thread sends bad vibes.Quote:
Originally Posted by raja_fan
I find that article to be utterly senseless. infact i felt it to be perversion. The author dug out some hidden agendas, supposedly, on the part of that film-maker.But strange. Some film-maker wanted to make a film. and signed up a composer. Surprisingly it becomes a hit and the music gets an award. and here we have people who are trying to get some mediaspace by attributing what all to them. That film-maker might not have even dreamt about such dimensions. I have seen this film and religion is just in the names of characters. Nothing more.and if we change those names to hindu ones, it wouldnt make an iota of difference to the film or theme or whatever. What next, Pakistan funded Danny Boyle and planted him in India? I wont be surprised even if that is an opinion expressed and if 1000 people say 'yes Yes' to it.
I think we should now have films which have characters with names as only Alphabets.. Like ' JK', 'PJ'. because we are now looking for religion and intentions behind the names of characters in a film, and what more, we even appreciate the people who imagine a lot and transform it into 'hidden agendas' of maligning a particular religion and make a 'case' out of it.
If i ever make a film, it will not have full names. Not that i would make a film this this one, but then, we never know where all people might search for religion in a film.
Great. we call this progress.
Sorry, I know this is wrong thread, but really couldnt stop myself after reading the hyper imagination of the author there.
I think Boyle did a fine job in SDM - I personally dont give a damn abt the rabble-rousers creating a furore over the movie, or, a gent by the name Bachan venting out his envy challenging the artistic merit of the film
But what SDM has indeed done is open up questions abt Mumbai's slums!!
digression: the following might be relevant: its a paper published by the Global Commission on International Migration
http://www.gcim.org/attachements/GMP%20No%2042.pdf
Unfortunately, todays mass media do not showcase these highly critical issues of human migrationary patterns!
"The irony is that in the study of international migration processes, poor countries like India are rarely seen as receivers of undocumented migrants from other poorer countries.They are viewed instead as senders of ‘asylum-seekers,’ ‘illegal’ migrants, and professional emigrants destined for richer countries in the West. Challenging this stereotype in international migration research, this paper examines the intensification and complexity of irregular migrations in South Asia – a topic under-researched by scholars - by presenting the unusual case of Bangladeshi immigrants in India."
http://www.gcim.org/attachements/GMP%20No%2042.pdf
"a steady stream of migrants is moving into affluent urban areas like New Delhi and Mumbai (formerly Bombay) where there is a constant demand for cheap labour. Here too they occupy the lowest social echelons, joining the vast ranks of the urban poor living in slums and shanties in these cities. Many Bangladeshi women work as maids or domestic servants in middle-class Indian households in these cities, while male migrants seek employment as laborers, rickshaw pullers or rag pickers who salvage re-saleable material out of garbage"
"According to the estimates, some 300,000 and 200,000 Bangladeshi children work in brothels in India and Pakistan respectively. Between 1990 and 1992 alone, some 1,000 child trafficking cases were reported in the Bangladesh media. Each year some 4,500 women and children are trafficked to Pakistan through India. While many of them were lured with false promises of lucrative employment, others chose migration as a route to escape abject poverty only to find themselves vulnerable at destination points. A great majority of trafficked women and girls have ended up as prostitutes in Kolkata (previously Calcutta), Mumbai, and other urban centers in India"- end digression
let Boyle or anyone make as many movies as they want to - about India - they are welcome!
but let the world also know that India carries the burden of millions of refugees who often enjoy more rights than even its rightful citizens - ration cards, voting rights are all up for grabs! of course there are intellectuals in India who will not stop harping on the ill-treatment meted out to them!
These "refugees" from Bangladesh are the ones who kill hundreds of Indians in Assam and West Bengal by planting bombs.Quote:
but let the world also know that India carries the burden of millions of refugees who often enjoy more rights than even its rightful citizens - ration cards, voting rights are all up for grabs! of course there are intellectuals in India who will not stop harping on the ill-treatment meted out to them!
Anyways, let us concentrate on Music alone. Any debates on religion will change our focus.
I have not seen SDM. But I am of the opinion that the elite/upper middle class of India wants to portray a rosy picture of our country to the west all the time. This is not really a good attitude. We cannot solve a problem, when we dont even acknowledge that a problem exists. Yesterday, when casually parked in Vijay TV channel for a nondescript movie for a while, my wife, commented, that there is a always namaaz heard in the background, when the story is dealing with terrorists. Maybe this stereotype does not exist, but it is quite possible we all harbor some biases in us. We should let the arts people expose these, even though at times, it might be an exaggeration.
Anyways, back to the topic, there is also a attitude in our society that only when we get an award from the western world we feel accomplished. Still we should not say this when Rahman getting an award should be positively viewed. I feel even if Rahman is watering Indian music traditions to present in a westernized format we should appreciate. He is opening up the market for more serious pieces of art and creating an awareness for our tradition. I am sure people will people will mention RaviShankar, HariPrasad Chaurasia or NFAK. Yes, they did but Rahman is doing it in the popular music space which can reach out to a much bigger audience.
Kiru - i dont think the problem is with the elite/upper middle class of India - comeone, most people in India just do not have time for such rabble-rousing!
its a select group of lobbyists from political background, and the movie industry who are trying to capitalise on the popularity and hype generated by the film! thats all - most people in India are actually happy that ARR won the GG and is most likely to win the AA too!
interestingly, my colleagues (one an Algerian, another an American) asked me about the movie's backdrop - not in a derogatory way, but in an inquisitive manner - and I explained to them that its after all a movie, meant for entertainment and the facts behind Mumbai slums - the 1000s of illegal immigrants streaming in from Bangladesh finding refuge in Mumbai adding to the slum density - just like most people, they were not aware of this collosal migration problem in India and were quite surprised to learn of the same!
A last digression in this thread :)
kiru,
I have seen SDM and all I can say is that India just forms a backdrop for the movie. Boyle is not interested in India or Indians. He just wants to tell a story based in an exotic background. So he chose India. I mean, the story could have as well been based in Mexico, Costa Rico or US and it wouldn't have made a difference to the movie. It may not have been as well received since it would have become an ordinary movie with a well known place as a background for the westerners!! The movie's USP is the Indian backdrop. There is no sense fretting over this mediocre movie and trying to worry about the portrayal of India etc.
I will end my digression now.
S.Suresh
I didnt know which thread I could share this one:
Found a die-hard IR groupie blog and this post: This guy got a letter from IR in 1978! Very interesting , if it is true:
Few of IR's (allegedly) comments in that letter:
1. "Sugamo Aayiram from TIM is a under-appreciated gem." ( I have felt so but IR saying this himself...)
2."In the film “Kaatrinile..”, I have used a new instrument called “Recorder”, which no other MD is using.
Even in the films yet to be released also, you are going to hear the new effects and sounds of even the existing usual instruments."
Well, does tell us IR was thinking about "new sounds" in 1978 :-).
3."7. Even though I increase my “price” to decrease the films to be signed, they never leave me. What can I do ?"
4."Happy that (atleast !) songs of “Odi VIlayadu Thatha” are different !" Yes, they were different. Suseela singing Odi Vilayadu thatha is a different experience
5."Find somebody else who are knowledgeable to be your “Guru”. I am not having that qualification in this life.
"
I completely agree with Suresh. That film has the word 'slum' in its name and just 1-2 sequences shot in slum but the film is NOT about slum. i dont understand why people who are denouncing are missing this point.
Kiru,
Thats quite an interesting snippet. Thanks for sharing it. Infact i have always believed that IR was always creating new sounds and was ahead in technology all through late 70s and 80s. Somehow, barring few exceptions, i think he missed that vigour (on that front alone) in 90s and thereafter. Probably his own attitude towards music (which i think is again reflected by his attitude towards philosophy, nature, religion, life) underwent few changes and accordingly he has kept some elements with him(like melody, orchestration) while he has focussed less on others (technology, sounds etc. )
irir123 and Suresh, I agree with both of you. raagas, I think you meant Plum who shared that snippet. I think I am not surprised by that. IR always wants to try new instruments ..but please read it does not necessarily translate into new sounds. Sound is an after-effect, how you play and how it expresses the note is important. I am told he buys new instruments every now and then and learns to play it to some extent. Probably he knows to play many more instruments than other well-known MDs. Yes, as raagas, conjectures, his attitudes might have changed over a period of time..probably focussed totally on composing ie. notes rather than the instruments. Just like WCM composers, it is upto the conductors to select the instruments and pace. Just that being in the film/popular music he is forced to select instruments.
>>Found a die-hard IR groupie blog and this post: This guy got a letter from IR in 1978<<
You're probably referring to the blog by the brother of our seasoned hubber, Usha Shankar (tvshankar):-) He has also given some nice WCM lessons there. I don't have the link now..hopefully Usha Chechi will provide us the link here...
I think its fascinating if you look at the evolution of IR's music through the 3 decades of his career. He started with a folkish sound in his music, slowly moved into modern music then ventured into some classical and then some fusion stuff. The one thing i noticed in his albums has been that he never was interested in doing complete western pop oriented songs with instruments and rhythms dominating the melody even during his peak years. If you look at his fast numbers they were more on the soft side with Jazzy orchestration and still had melody at its base. There might be a few exceptions to this.
Coming to the topic of sound. I think sound for an MD is more of establishing that this is the way his songs are going to sound and the instruments and rhythms are going to sound in this way . This is more of an MD trying to establish a distinct identity to his songs.
As far as IR is concerned he always tried to match his music sound to the movie theme in most cases. As for he not doing much with sound in 90's i think he tried to when he got some good movies, Guru, Hey Ram are good examples. EVen Kadhaluku Mariyadhai had some new sounds(for IR i mean) which atleast i did not hear before in a couple of songs.
But now the trend is making hip modern sounding Rhythms .After departure of Maniratnam i dont think IR worked with any director who would have had the courage to ask IR to do some really modern sounding songs which match the current trends. They are mostly happy to take what he gives given his stature of a legend. This has created an impression that IR is kind of a veteren MD who can just give nice melodies and his trademark brilliant orchestration and BGM not that IR really minds that. But if properly pushed and inspired i have no doubts that he can come up with equally modern sounding rhythms and songs as well. But its highly unlikely there is any director out there. Maybe Balki if he stops asking IR to recycling his old hits can make IR come up with something. Lets hope.
'Ilayaraaja taught me great discipline'- A R Rahman
The philosophy that underlines his quest is simple - a good human being makes a good musician. In an interview to PEOPLE at his Chennai residence-cum-studio (the ground floor houses his studio, the Panchathan Record Inn) after his Golden Globe win, Rahman repeatedly emphasises this. "Being a film music composer is not just about scoring good music. It is also about having ethics, commitment, passion and friendship," he says.
It was his father, Malayali music composer, late R K Shekhar, who showed him the way. Rahman remembers how he was a man who always valued musicians as "human beings first."
"My father was a hard worker and never judged musicians by their compositions. He had great respect for them as people and I learnt the same. He was always ready to help those who are in need."
In the 1980s, Rahman work as a keyboard player with legendary south Indian composer Ilayaraaja, which turned out to be his other learning ground. "Ilayaraaja taught me great discipline," says Rahman. "With other musicians, I always saw that there were people, who would drink and smoke. With Ilayaraaja, things were always systematic and disciplined. He was dedicated towards work and, once again, respected every musician."
Those who know Rahman well observe that the musician strives to live by the same tenets. Suhasini Mani Ratnam, wife of director Mani Ratnam, Rahman's good friend sees in him, a child-like innocence at heart. "I have seen A R Rahman showering lot of sympathy on children and people in need," says the actress. "His family has a very positive influence on him and I guess that makes his music more sensitive."
http://specials.rediff.com/movies/20...f-a-genius.htm
-- Deleted --
thamizhvaanan - humble request - pls refrain from bringing in any other MD here even if you are not using the name! we are not concerned about whats happening to other MDs - we are more concerned about whats NOT happened to IR and trying to find out the reasons - none of the points you gave point to that!
After reading Thamizhvanan's post, I'm reminded of what Sujatha said somewhere about gimmicks that he initially did (like printing letters like a staircase to indicate someone getting down etc) just to attract and arouse curiosity.
Sujatha stated that though these can draw initial interest, there should be substance to sustain and keep them. IMO, the novelty of sounds and such could help score initially but without true musical substance one cannot keep it for long.
We can easily see which MD's have held it for long:-)
Back to the topic - How can IR get global recognition? Very simple!
IR needs to work with talents outside the country, on projects of "real global appeal" (not the TbI kind). For this he has to have "stuff", interest and ofcourse, proper networking.
Interestingly, he has enough stuff in that context.
We really don't know about his current level of interest. Definitely he had interest at some point of time in his career (RPO). For many reasons, it didn't came out and all that he gained was probably some experience and development of taste for such orchestras which frequently landed him with the Budapest team later. The question is, does he have the same drive in that direction now? Can't say.
Proper networking (i.e. working with the right kind of people to go global) - total washout in this case. Where, he doesn't even work on correct filmi projects LOCALLY now, national and global are totally out of question unless some miracle happens!
Thamizhvaanan, I am deeply disappointed by your post. This wasn't what I posted that link here for. If you re-read your post, you are basically venting against IR and taking cheap potshots at him. I dpnt know about your experience with rabid IR fans but the last few pages in this thread which I have seen have been free of malice and rancour. Please do not bring your politics here.
When I wrote that post, I could have also said "0look when IR was rahman's currnt age more or less, he was thinking along similar lines on new sounds.Let's see when rahman gets to IR's current age, does he keep up with maadern trendds."
I didn't.why? Because that would have been silly, and I respect rahman.
If you had an iota of respect for IR, please delete your post.
You don't have to ofcourse but I would appreciate if you did
App, oh related to a hubber-a?
Interesting
:rotfl: if that was really the case, then TV would have never come here.....just look at threads in this section and this thread too, where ARR was discussed a lot, much to our discomfort.......Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123