"Champion of Champions" Chennai Super Kings

You have not addressed the question. A charge does not mean a player is guilty. It only means he is being tried. According to the same logic you have used, the players should not be banned until the court pronounces them guilty. There is a perceived conflict of interest for N Srinivasan because he is one of the owners and also MD of India Cements which owns the CSK franchise at the same time that he is also BCCI President. Irrespective of the spot fixing case and his son in law's possible involvement in betting, he ought to step down until the pending case on conflict of interest is decided in court. He has not done so. This is a clear cut case of double standards - ruining the careers of players without waiting for a court verdict (and irrespective of whether they are indeed involved, that is against the principles of natural justice) while brazenly carrying on in the face of conflict of interest and trying to hold on to his position at all costs.

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Originally Posted by Saai

Please come with facts. Players are charged with match fixing . In this case, first, Srini was NOT convicted. Secondly, it is his son in law and not for fixing but for betting.

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Now we are playing with language is it?

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Originally Posted by Dilbert

Now we are playing with language is it?

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Please take dictionary and see the difference and understand one is legal in most of the country and the other is not!

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Originally Posted by Saai

Crimson, please read my post above it. It is also amusing when you say to me a chennai guy that tickets are easily available for an IPL match rather than a test match. Please!!! You can walk to test match venue, get tickets and watch. As simple as that. I know people standing for 5-6 hours in queue for getting a ticket for an IPL match. "Casual Lies" in an argument is one of the most irritating thing.

Regarding my pride over whatever you feel is parochial - I was just referring to the game of power politics between multiple players. The game was fascinating and I was proud when Srini came out flying colors in the game. Why proud - its the same reason you feel proud when 11 players who are completely unrelated to you represent a region and win, just because they are from your region. Unless Court convicts Srini, the discussion of ethics is irrelevant to me.

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I am talking about online booking. Do you know how big a city Mumbai is? It is ridiculous to expect people who live 30 km away from the stadium to line up at the counter when they can be easily made available online. What is the big problem anyway in making them available online in the age of ecommerce (and especially when IPL tickets are already sold online)?

And no, I have never felt proud when Sharad Pawar won anything or held positions in ICC. Anybody in Mumbai or Maharashtra will tell you the damage he's done. Why anybody should feel proud about the achievements of corrupt politicians or industrialists is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

You have not addressed the question. A charge does not mean a player is guilty. It only means he is being tried. According to the same logic you have used, the players should not be banned until the court pronounces them guilty. There is a perceived conflict of interest for N Srinivasan because he is one of the owners and also MD of India Cements which owns the CSK franchise at the same time that he is also BCCI President. Irrespective of the spot fixing case and his son in law's possible involvement in betting, he ought to step down until the pending case on conflict of interest is decided in court. He has not done so. This is a clear cut case of double standards - ruining the careers of players without waiting for a court verdict (and irrespective of whether they are indeed involved, that is against the principles of natural justice) while brazenly carrying on in the face of conflict of interest and trying to hold on to his position at all costs.

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The answer was already there. Please read it again. To re-iterate - his son-in-law faced the actions just like the players did. Srini need not as he was not under fault. What kind of expectation is this - to ask a father in law to retire when his son in law was charged?

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Originally Posted by crimson king

I am talking about online booking. Do you know how big a city Mumbai is? It is ridiculous to expect people who live 30 km away from the stadium to line up at the counter when they can be easily made available online. What is the big problem anyway in making them available online in the age of ecommerce (and especially when IPL tickets are already sold online)?

And no, I have never felt proud when Sharad Pawar won anything or held positions in ICC. Anybody in Mumbai or Maharashtra will tell you the damage he's done. Why anybody should feel proud about the achievements of corrupt politicians or industrialists is beyond me.

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hmm.... Let me explain again - I am not yet convinced that Srini is corrupt. The court also is not yet convinced. So, your argument of me supporting a "corrupt" politician is beyond me. I never wrote anything of that sorts and your comprehension of my posts is of another league.

Not having an online ticket option is not related to being "Corrupt" - it is about being in-efficient. Just to get the argument in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Saai

Please take dictionary and see the difference and understand one is legal in most of the country and the other is not!

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:sigh2: A guy who won's a team bets with inside information. And Bookies / his cronies use that information to influence the other team and also the outcome of game(s). Is debated between fixing or plumbing. I need dictionary for lots of things happening in India these days.

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Originally Posted by Saai

The answer was already there. Please read it again. To re-iterate - his son-in-law faced the actions just like the players did. Srini need not as he was not under fault. What kind of expectation is this - to ask a father in law to retire when his son in law was charged?

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lol, you haven't even read what I said there. I am talking about Srini's dual ownership of an IPL franchise and BCCI. That is conflict of interest. The person charged with administration of cricket cannot run a profit centre within it. He has been dragged to court but he has stood his ground on the same innocent-until-proven-guilty principle that has been denied to the players.

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Originally Posted by Dilbert

:sigh2: A guy who won's a team beats with inside information. And Bookies / his cronies use that information to influence the other team and also the outcome of game(s). Is debated between fixing or plumbing. I need dictionary for lots of things happening in India these days.

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Please check your logic. Lets say Gurunath tells to the bookie Dhoni is going to come in number 4. Now Bookie can both bet and sell this information to the opponent team, thereby influencing the game. The only stakeholder, who will be affected here is Chennai Super Kings team.

Where is fixing here is beyond me. I advise you to check the dictionary again.

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Originally Posted by Saai

hmm.... Let me explain again - I am not yet convinced that Srini is corrupt. The court also is not yet convinced. So, your argument of me supporting a "corrupt" politician is beyond me. I never wrote anything of that sorts and your comprehension of my posts is of another league.

Not having an online ticket option is not related to being "Corrupt" - it is about being in-efficient. Just to get the argument in the right direction.

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You said and I quote, "its the same reason you feel proud when 11 players who are completely unrelated to you represent a region and win, just because they are from your region." I am just pointing out that I never felt proud about Pawar's 'achievements', so speak for yourself. Don't conjoin me in the 'you', I am not interested.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

You said and I quote, "its the same reason you feel proud when 11 players who are completely unrelated to you represent a region and win, just because they are from your region." I am just pointing out that I never felt proud about Pawar's 'achievements', so speak for yourself. Don't conjoin me in the 'you', I am not interested.

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What level of comprehension!. Those 11 players means cricket players, lets say Indian cricket players who belong to your region and NOT pawar! :banghead:

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Originally Posted by Saai

Please check your logic. Lets say Gurunath tells to the bookie Dhoni is going to come in number 4. Now Bookie can both bet and sell this information to the opponent team, thereby influencing the game. The only stakeholder, who will be affected here is Chennai Super Kings team.

Where is fixing here is beyond me. I advise you to check the dictionary again.

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let me give you 1 example : When Dhoni says , there are 1 or 2 important playesr with questionable injuries they might not playa specific game. And they can't chase more than 150 without them. If bookie uses this information and tells opposition bowler to give more runs to influence the outcome for CSK to win that match ? You don't think this is fixing when everyone shares the profit ? Question should be asked how far did it go within CSK.

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Originally Posted by Dilbert

let me give you 1 example : When Dhoni says , there are 1 or 2 important player with questionable injuries they might not playa specific game. And they can't chase more than 150 without them. If bookie uses this information and tells opposition bowler to give more runs to influence the outcome for CSK to win that match ? You don't think this is fixing when everyone shares the profit ? Question should be asked how far did it go within CSK.

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This is called fixing and the police has explicitely, and clearly told that there was no "fixing" charges against Gurunath.

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Originally Posted by Saai

What level of comprehension!. Those 11 players means cricket players, lets say Indian cricket players who belong to your region and NOT pawar! :banghead:

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Er, that is the logic that you just applied to justify your pride at Srini triumphing over administrators of other regions, so go bang YOUR head. :P You used a general 'you' which implies that just as you feel proud about Srini, I ought to feel proud about Pawar because I am based out of Mumbai. No thank you, keep your parochial pride to yourself, it may not necessarily apply to everyone.

P.S: And I am waiting for a response about Srini's conflict of interest. Pl explain why he shouldn't step down just because the matter is sub judice if Azharuddin was handed a life ban without an uncontested court verdict. Please explain why that is not hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

Er, that is the logic that you just applied to justify your pride at Srini triumphing over administrators of other regions, so go bang YOUR head. :P You used a general 'you' which implies that just as you feel proud about Srini, I ought to feel proud about Pawar because I am based out of Mumbai. No thank you, keep your parochial pride to yourself, it may not necessarily apply to everyone.

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Crimson, as you did not comprehend what I told, let me explain very clearly.

You support 11 cricket players who are unrelated to you just because they represent your region and feel proud when they win

I supported srini to become the BCCI president as he was from Chennai and felt proud when he won.

I "NEVER" told you feel proud when pawar wins. I thought 11 players means cricket players and you will get the drift.

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Originally Posted by Saai

This is called fixing and the police has explicitely, and clearly told that there was no "fixing" charges against Gurunath.

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Yo When Guruji was part of the gang which was profiting from fixing games. you guys are happy because he was a ball boy and not the manager? And who in right mind will think that Seenu mama or Guruji or people with power will do dirty work themselves. They use people like Vindo and others for this very purpose so that trial doesn't lead to them( or there doorsteps).

Saai, I repeat, please speak for yourself and don't assume things. I may feel happy for a while if India wins a match. I don't necessarily feel 'proud' about it. Just my personal choice. I am a cricket fan per se rather than an Indian cricket team fan. I can only feel proud of jawans fighting for the nation at the border. And that is so long as I am convinced India is not indulging in any Bush-style 'Osama dead or alive' missions at the behest of the defence lobby. I basically give a wide berth to jingoism, it's not my cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

P.S: And I am waiting for a response about Srini's conflict of interest. Pl explain why he shouldn't step down just because the matter is sub judice if Azharuddin was handed a life ban without an uncontested court verdict. Please explain why that is not hypocrisy.

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Srini is a hypocrite. True! ...the argument was "why do I support a corrupt politician". My point is Srini has not been proved to be corrupt.

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Originally Posted by Saai

Srini is a hypocrite. True! ...the argument was "why do I support a corrupt politician". My point is Srini has not been proved to be corrupt.

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:notworthy:

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Originally Posted by Saai

Srini is a hypocrite. True! ...the argument was "why do I support a corrupt politician". My point is Srini has not been proved to be corrupt.

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That is all. All I ask is the same justice be applied to players and administrators.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

Saai, I repeat, please speak for yourself and don't assume things. I may feel happy for a while if India wins a match. I don't necessarily feel 'proud' about it. Just my personal choice. I am a cricket fan per se rather than an Indian cricket team fan. I can only feel proud of jawans fighting for the nation at the border. And that is so long as I am convinced India is not indulging in any Bush-style 'Osama dead or alive' missions at the behest of the defence lobby. I basically give a wide berth to jingoism, it's not my cup of tea.

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cool :)

This needs a level of maturity crimson. I am guy who feels proud and happy when India wins!...

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Originally Posted by Saai

No use talking to you. One more time to you - Police told no fixing involved here. From now on talk to yourself as you usually do in hub.

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Do I really care what CSK fans blind belief is ? People with conscience will agree with me. Fan boys not so much and I really don't care about them. When its evident they are covering up a whole pumpkin inside cooked rice. *just to be clear I am talking about cooked rice in general not just in TN. This issue is not going away anytime soon.

How much ever you guys want to put this behind.

The player retaining shouldn't be any issue considering it is mostly the 8 teams that will play next year.

MI,CSK and RR will probably push for 5 player retention considering their successes with the current teams.

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Originally Posted by Saai

The player retaining shouldn't be any issue considering it is mostly the 8 teams that will play next year.

MI,CSK and RR will probably push for 5 player retention considering their successes with the current teams.

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I think Thony should play for RR or MI next year. Kohli for CSK as captain :lol2:

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Originally Posted by Dilbert

I think Thony should play for RR or MI next year. Kohli for CSK as captain :lol2:

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Well Dillu. If Kohli plays for Csk you'll become a Cskian man...

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Originally Posted by ilayapuyalvinodh_kumar

Well Dillu. If Kohli plays for Csk you'll become a Cskian man...

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Sorry Thambi CSK is not my kinda team ! Kohli is great young talent . If he can keep his head little leveled, you are looking at one of greatest batsman of current generation. And I enjoy watching his game just on that basis alone. Accidentally he plays for RCB its just a bonus.

I wanted to see how CSK fans will react if he was CSK captain :).

All I want to watch is Srini mama shelling out few more crores and buying RCB team as well. Then I will peacefully sit in front of the laptop and watch out for one fan's reaction and his support for the team :)

//It will also help Vijay Mallya, who doesnt have money to pay his employees but can still own an IPL team//

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

//It will also help Vijay Mallya, who doesnt have money to pay his employees but can still own an IPL team//

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Indeed!

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

All I want to watch is Srini mama shelling out few more crores and buying RCB team as well. Then I will peacefully sit in front of the laptop and watch out for one fan's reaction and his support for the team :)

//It will also help Vijay Mallya, who doesnt have money to pay his employees but can still own an IPL team//

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Well that would be RCB fans worst nightmare coming true, we would rather prefer kalanithi feeding us some halwa instead (only reason atleast we won't be part of match fixing mafia just to win some matches and call ourselves champions of match fixing champions after few years) just saying. !. Mallya uncle also owns 27 foot yacht which costs about 2.8 million a year and a formula one team. Business is unfortunately business and Greed doesn't spare anyone. Uncle is not an exception.Just be clear just because I support RCB , doesn't mean I approve mallya uncle's action(s).

Dilbu,

Tell me,how a sane person can believe that a team can win by fixing? If its fixing, the opposition should be held responsible for throwing the match,aint it?

Just asking this with a belief that you will reply with logical facts rather than diverting the topic and scaring me out of the discussion. :)

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

Dilbu,

Tell me,how a sane person can believe that a team can win by fixing? If its fixing, the opposition should be held responsible for throwing the match,aint it?

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Absolutely SIR, This is my stand on this issue from DAY 1 (may be some time you need to pay attention to even Non fanatic posts also) . Hold every Damn team / player responsible. Start with tainted teams smoke every corrupt hog out. If need be suspend the entire tournament. And come back clean atleast we would be some pride in that kinda action don't you think ? Rather than covering up the whole thing by firing cheer girls , in the name of improving image?

Oh AB sir, its ok to come out of Fanatic shell sometime and think / talk rationally also. Pl don't be scared about speaking with your conscience.

CSK has not been accused of match fixing/spot fixing and the only accusation so far has been its team principal being involved in betting. Team principal betting by passing on the team information will only spoil the team's progress and in no way going to help the team's progress in the tourney. If any team player is found guilty of fixing or betting, be it the first man Dhoni or the last man Mohit Sharma, they should be punished. No second thoughts. But questioning a team's efforts for an administrator's crime (which isnt a crime unless proven guilty) is laugh worthy.

But the discussions here were not in the best interests of the game but only in the hatred against CSK as i can see.

I did not know that dilbert was an RCB fan. That changes everything. I can categorically say that I have stopped watching IPL since 2011 which was the first time I suspected match fixing. I am not going to get into details since I am least interested in convincing people about it (but if it makes you feel happy, I'll let you know that the match which aroused my suspicions did not feature CSK). But I don't care how important a property IPL may be, I am not interested in the tournament and have better things to watch. Now don't ask me why I know that some IPL players were handed bans or the Guru Meiyapan episode because I can't help following the news on TV and papers. For that matter, why IPL, cricket has also been tainted by match fixing for a long time and administrators' reluctance to face the problem head on is not going to help matters.

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

CSK has not been accused of match fixing/spot fixing and the only accusation so far has been its team principal being involved in betting. Team principal betting by passing on the team information will only spoil the team's progress and in no way going to help the team's progress in the tourney. If any team player is found guilty of fixing or betting, be it the first man Dhoni or the last man Mohit Sharma, they should be punished. No second thoughts. But questioning a team's efforts for an administrator's crime (which isnt a crime unless proven guilty) is laugh worthy.

But the discussions here were not in the best interests of the game but only in the hatred against CSK as i can see.

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AB sir we didn't even give chance to law enforcement to dig deep to see who else was involved, or did we?
Now we(Fans) can all live under false pretense as if no one else was invovled because seenu mama served us fresh halwa in the name of internal investigation.And Guruji was an astrologer/ mind reader , who got his information directly from Thony , Fleming, ball boys brains without anyone speaking to him periodically.

If CSK fans still believe they don't have tainted players, now that's biggest illusion one can live under. Sorry to disappoint you again these are not hatred posts. Its just frustration on our country's inability to bring out better standards time and time again.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

I did not know that dilbert was an RCB fan. That changes everything. I can categorically say that I have stopped watching IPL since 2011 which was the first time I suspected match fixing. I am not going to get into details since I am least interested in convincing people about it (but if it makes you feel happy, I'll let you know that the match which aroused my suspicions did not feature CSK). But I don't care how important a property IPL may be, I am not interested in the tournament and have better things to watch. Now don't ask me why I know that some IPL players were handed bans or the Guru Meiyapan episode because I can't help following the news on TV and papers. For that matter, why IPL, cricket has also been tainted by match fixing for a long time and administrators' reluctance to face the problem head on is not going to help matters.

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Sorry to disappoint you , me being RCB fan has got nothing to do with this argument. Infact even I didn't follow this tournament after 08 till this year. So don't count me in as some kinda RCB fanatic :)

Just saying that, speaking for myself, I would personally find it very difficult to convince myself about the merits of one team over the other if I suspect wholesale fixing in a tournament. What is the relevance of fandom once you accept that CSK arrange matches so that they win tournaments and the other teams connive with them to help produce this result? I am sorry but it does weaken your position in the argument as it opens you up to assaults on perceived bias.

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Originally Posted by crimson king

Just saying that, speaking for myself, I would personally find it very difficult to convince myself about the merits of one team over the other if I suspect wholesale fixing in a tournament. What is the relevance of fandom once you accept that CSK arrange matches so that they win tournaments and the other teams connive with them to help produce this result? I am sorry but it does weaken your position in the argument as it opens you up to assaults on perceived bias.

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I am not here to weaken anyone's position in this argument or to prove myself as bigger than anyone (That's a false assumption CSK fans have about me I don't care). All I asked was I didn't see a single CSK fan calling for a tough action against there team's involvement , instead they kept diverting the discussion to opposition teams helping the outcome. For which I mention of course there should be a full blown investigation and if need be stop the entire tournament till everyone gets a clean chits. I even gave several examples.

They (CSK fans) yet to come up with a valid reason... Waiting... I am waiting :rotfl:

I agree with all that but if you make remarks like you would not like to see RCB pass into Srini's ownership (as if Mallya is the cat's whiskers), that is not going to help your cause in the debate. That is going to strongly suggest that you have an agenda against CSK even if that is not the case. Just as you are interpreting the question of opposition teams as 'diversion'. Why...it is a valid question. You cannot arrange a match such that CSK should win without the other team's involvement. Match fixing in cricket is a Pandora's box so let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. If today a Tour De France runner up during the Armstrong days claimed he was clean, how many people would believe him or sympathise with him. No point pretending some are more clean than others if the reality is that all of them are in the mess together.