Cho-vin "EngE BraahmNan"? Jaya tv

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Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha

April 8th
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அந்தணன் அல்லது பிராமணக் குலத்தோன்றல்கள் கடல் கடந்து செல்லுதல் ஏன் சாஸ்திரத்திற்கு விரோதம்? என்ற கேள்விக்கு convincing விளக்கம். தருகிறார்கள். நித்ய உபகர்மாக்களில் ஒன்று காயத்ரி மந்திர உச்சடனம். மும்முறை செய்யப்படவேண்டிய ஒன்று. பூமியில் செய்யப்படவேண்டிய வேண்டிய இக்கர்மா, கடல் கடந்து போகும் போது செய்ய முடியாமல் போவதால் இந்த விதி ஏற்பட்டது என்ற விளக்கம் தருகின்றனர் பெரியோர்.

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Why can't Sandhyavandanam be done on the ship? All that it requires is a glass of water, and the vessels required. Also, I have heard from a reliable source (one who is well versed in the Vedic material) that Sandhyavandana can even be done in deserts, in the absence of water, using sand or mud for water. Moreover, in the worst case, it can be done as a mental activity. I think this explanation is incomplete, and this matter itself is most probably a matter of 'faith'.

Trying to give a logical explanation for faith fails on repeated and in depth questioning. Its much better to leave them just like they are, accepting them either as facts of divine revelation, or simply a matter of convenience or blind faith in the ancient times.

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"விவேகானந்தரைப் போன்ற பல துறவிகள் கடல் கடந்து அமைதியை பரப்பவில்லையா?" என்றால், அவர்கள் சென்றதன் நோக்கம், பொது நோக்கம், தன் சுய சம்பாத்தியத்தை பெருக்கிக்கொள்வதற்காக அல்ல என்பது ஒப்புக்கொள்ளவேண்டிய பதில்.

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Idhuvum ennakku trpthi aaga illai. What is "selfishness" and what is "selflessness"? Idhellaam narrow definitions. Why is personal wealth looked down upon ? Directly or indirectly, we seem to repeatedly 'hover' around the idea that having personal material ambitions is somehow not that great as having personal spiritual ambitions, and having a social spiritual ambitions is better than having personal spiritual ambitions.

I notice that most of our lives are prioritized towards personal material ambitions (also including that of family), and therefore I think this line of thought of looking up to spiritual attitudes and down upon material attitudes has some kind of guilt associated with it. If only we were free, we wouldn't care about all this 'opinions' and just follow our own bliss, be it material or spiritual.

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மேலும் இப்பாரத பூமி கர்ம பூமியாக இந்து மதத்தில் சொல்லப்படுகிறது. இதை பல்வேறு துறவிகளும் ஆச்சார்யர்களும் கூட உரைத்து வந்திருக்கின்றனர். பாரதம் = கர்ம பூமி, மற்ற பூமி போக பூமி என்ற சொல்லபடுகிறது.

பி.கு: ஏனைய சில பூமிகளில் பிறந்த மற்றோர், அல்லது மற்ற மதத்தினருக்கும், பித்ருக்கள் பற்றிய அறிவுறுத்தல்கள், அவர்களுக்குக் செலுத்த வேண்டிய கடன், செல்ல வேண்டிய நேர் வழிப்பாதைகள் என பல இருக்கின்றன. அப்படி இருக்கும் போது, மற்ற பூமி போக பூமியென்றும் பாரதம் மட்டுமே கர்ம பூமியென்றும், இந்துமதம் சொல்வதை என்னால் புரிந்துகொள்ள முடியவில்லை.

எல்லா மதங்களிலும் எல்லாம் சொல்லப்பட்டிருக்கிறது. எந்த நாட்டிலும் தேடல் துவங்கலாம், முழுமை பெறலாம். எந்த பூமியிலும் கர்மா செய்யப்படலாம் பூர்த்தியாகலாம் . இதில் வேற்றுமை ஏன்!?

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"Everything is present in all religions" is not exactly right. For example, the Siddha traditions of Hinduism (especially in Tamil Nadu - Agathiyar, Bhogar etc) looks completely absent in any other religion.

And also, as I said before, Hinduism alavukku ellaa sindhanaigalayum, karuththugalayum valara vitta madham engum kidaiyaadhu.

Love and Light.

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Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha

Hinduism generally states that spiritual souls and evolved ppl find solace here as vibrations are conducive for their further evolvement in this land (Bharatham)

I however do not wanna fully say yes for this as I am UNAWARE of many nice things and followings in other religions and countries.

நம் கிணற்றைப் பற்றி மட்டும் நான் தெரிந்து கொண்டு, இந்த கிணறு தான் உசந்தது என்பதை என்னால் ஒப்புக்கொள்ள முடியவில்லை. I would be qualified to say yes or no on that only when I do know the practices and places and specialities of other religion and their holy places. Until then....

உசத்தி-தாழ்த்தி என்று எதுவும் இல்லை. எல்லாமே ஒன்றைத் தான் சொல்கிறது. எல்லா இடங்களிலும் எல்லாமும் இருக்கிறது.

என்பது என் எண்ணம்.

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Even if you had a complete knowledge of all customs and traditions of other religions, how can you make a comparison? IMHO, what is best for a person and what is not is an extremely subjective and a matter of personal choice. Why should anyone be allowed (Religion, Scriptures, The Upholders of the scriptures of that religion) to intrude into that decision?

Why should one bear the brunt of 'upholding' a religious tradition? I think these views are a bit narrow. On a personal level, I can accept a command from a realized master that a particular person should be a Hindu, should uphold the religion by practising it. On an objective level, I think that people inherently should be free to practise anything. After all, its their life and their business.

Given the education, given the freedom, given the no-nonsense approach to religions, I think people will be more inclined to follow sensible practices of a religion, and most importantly, put Oneness and compassion into practice through a religion of their choice.

Love and Light.

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Originally Posted by viraajan

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Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha

பாரத பூமி கர்ம பூமி, (to elaborate that if needed) பித்ரு காரியங்கள், தேவ, ரிஷிகளுக்குறிய பூஜைகள் யாகங்கள் இங்கு மட்டுமே செய்யப்படுகிறது என்று "பாரத வர்ஷம்" போன்ற நூல்களில் குறிப்பிடப்பட்டுள்ளது. அதனால் இது கர்ம பூமி மற்றவை, அல்லது இன்பங்கள் லோக சந்தோஷங்களுக்கு வழி வகுக்கக்கூடிய போக பூமி என்று குறிப்பிடுகின்றனர்.

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:exactly: This is what I was asking for. :)

Since all these are performed here (of course not this generation) we call this a Karma Bhoomi. Doing Sandhiyavandhanam, and other chores (which a brahman is supposed to do) in other land may not be effective. But still, I need an explanation for this. Let me ask my uncle :)

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Actually, this argument seems a bit cyclic. Bhaaratham is a Karma bhoomi because "pithru kaariyangal, yaagangal" etc etc were performed here.. and these are performed here because it is a Karma Bhoomi. ??????????????

IMHO, why should we try to explain everything logically? Sila vishayangalai nambikkaikku vittuviduvadudhaan nalladhu. Actually, I will also say that India is my karma bhoomi, more because I feel it so and less because someone told so to me. But it doesn't mean everyone born here has to be here. Thats just gobbledeegook if you ask me.

Love and Light.

P.S:: I keep spurring the arguments forwarded in favour of several such issues (by Cho or someone else) not to mock at anyone's opinion, but simply because on a personal level, these questions bug me too big time. Often I see people dismissing them by superficial logical arguments without thinking deeply. As we think deeper and deeper, it seems more often than not, a matter of faith. That I can accept, but somehow the apparent logical cloaking of matters of faith is unacceptable to me.

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Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha

உசத்தி-தாழ்த்தி என்று எதுவும் இல்லை. எல்லாமே ஒன்றைத் தான் சொல்கிறது. எல்லா இடங்களிலும் எல்லாமும் இருக்கிறது.

என்பது என் எண்ணம்.

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:exactly:

when we are in thirsty
we drink

coke
mango
pepsi
tea
coffee
necto
water
etc..

what conquer the thirst is water
all others are added for flavour
same in the religion

core - is the same in all religion
extras are their beliefs.

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Originally Posted by anbu_kathir

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Originally Posted by viraajan

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Also, it was always recognised that the dual nature of reality (good-bad, day-night etc etc) were both equal manifestations of the divine, but the Divine itself was transcendent of these dualities. Even this idea was prevalent among many civilizations and religions, but the Indian subcontinent was the first place that it was openly acknowledged in a wide expanse of space and time.

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That's interesting. Can you please explain this little more in detail.

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Well... lets see. Here's a start. This is a picture of the Trimurthi at the Elephanta caves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:El...esamurti_1.JPG

The wiki page corresponding says that the figure on the left is interpreted as Brahma, the Creator, with his vitality being represented by a rose bud. The figure on the right is Bhairava, or equivalently Shiva-the Destroyer. The central peaceful figure is that of Vishnu-which literally translates as "All pervading" and is therefore the Subratum and the Preserver of all things in Creation.

This is also an image which contains within it the "duality" of Nature (Creation) and the transcendent nature. Birth-death being represented by Brahma-Shiva, and the Transcendent One being represented by the peaceful Vishnu face.

The common figurine of Ardhanareeswara, also found in the same page is also a representation of the understanding of the equality between the dual aspects of Creation. In Taoism, this notion is beautifully represented by the Yin-Yang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_yang

Furthermore, we can also get into the Glorification of the "dark" forces in Hinduism, the Hindu equivalent of the "Mother Goddess" ( or the "Witch-Goddess" ) archetype.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali

"Kali" herself is as old as Shiva, who is perhaps the oldest ever Hindu Deity bereft of a natural function (like Agni, Indra ... etc). Diving deeper, one may find the actual acceptance of witchcraft (basically embracing the "dark side") in Hinduism, especially in Tantra, Vamachaara, the so-called "left handed ways"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaula

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vamachara

Such weird mystic traditions are present in other religions too, including Judaism, Christianity. Sufism in Islam also holds a similar Yin-Yang-Transcendent world view. But in no other religion has such a philosophy been allowed to develop in such depth and accepted as an independent tradition in itself.

Love and Light.

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:ty: Anbu Kadhir. I was able to understand it to some extent. :D

I have a question here. But i don't want to hurt people of other religion by posting it here. After all, it is just a doubt. Will think of it and PM you :) :)

I enjoy your questions AK. Neither do I understand the questions completely nor do I have answers for it. But your questions say that you've analyzed these concepts in depth. Good.

I missed today's episode... :(

SP akka irukka bayamEn :boo:

Gimme some time pps. Tomm I am lil busy, so saturday update panren. Also I WONT BE ABLE TO SEE tommorrow's episode :(

Today's episode had complicated talks. (well not actually :) )

prasad,

please feel free to post ur thoughts, after all, all of us learn from other's words and somewhere sometime, one of us may strike a better balance relatively :thumbsup:

gimme 2 days break I shall post few posts during weekend :)

I may frequent other threads, but this thread needs concentration :oops: thats why the time :)

Noooooooo problemmmmm.... take your own time :yes: