thiruvasakam in symphony

Kr says, ' I had mentioned targeting music departments/faculty members and religion departments in universities in the US. '


Dear Kr,

We can send the music departments complementary copy of TIS. If the faculty like it, if TIS is relevant to the subject they are teaching, then they may mention as 'suggested listening'! that's my understanding!!

We can request our local libraries to bring TIS for us(public) to access! We need to fill some forms!! TISK, you can check the details from your local library!

TISK,

Good One.

( I am assuming u are Dr.Sankar Kumar or an office bearer of TiS-US ). Anyway your last post shows a lot of maturity/patience and focus on solving the problem rather than trying to point fingers.

I am sure most DF'ers here ( atleast the ones that participate in IR's forums that i know of ) are professionals and sincere in their words. There are very few people who argue madly as a IR fanatic or argue just for the sake of proving that they are not as fanatic as the others and using the opportunity to negative comments against others like IR. Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand.

If i were you or to suggest anything, I would say write to the TiS-USA/TM supporters. You have their emails. You have the database of who donated/contributed their time and efforts etc to a cause spearheaded by you. So write to them the facts and seek their help/support/guidance on how to resolve the issues ! Many of these hubbers are professionals working in various fields and have extensive experience and contacts. Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum. Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me. ( I was surprised that Fr. not only being a good person but also a religious person even agreed to doing that .. The basic tenet of Thiruvasagam ( Father seems to be very prolific in Tamil Literature. ) is " Thaame Thamakku vithi Vagaiyum ".
It means " Theethum Nandrum pirar thara Vaara ".. I am sure you understand that.

Also, i am not sure if TiS and TM plan to work on more similar projects in the future! ( Father in his interview in the Launch DVD stated something like doing Puranaanuru /Thirukural etc.. sounds exciting ). If so , you do not want to burn bridges now - either with IR or any one else involved in this. Instead of taking this as " Pothumda Saami " or cover my debts and move on " you might want to take a positive, colloborative approach.. You have now learned a lot of valuable lessson.. The important being " Good intentions alone and blind faith/trust alone do not help" - ( Remember the Thirukural - " Ithanai ivanal ivan ..." ).

Next time keep up your good intentions but at the same time have clear /formal / legal plan. Register your supporters/donors as TiS-US Members. maintain a good rapport with them not only during your good times but during your challenging times as well. For ex. There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.. All these go a long way in buidling a truly great organization that is not only successful but very professional as well. The same goes to TM as well.

Anyways, I am glad you are turning in the right direction. I wish you all the best in your efforts and I am sure sooner or later you will feel happy that your efforts are bearing fruits. Look at the big picture. Your life does not end with TiS-US burning fingers on this maiden project. There is a chinese proverb - The greatest mistake one can make is not making one at all ( very similar to " Failures are the stepping stones !! ).

Cheers
MSK

"Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand."


"Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me."

"There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.."

"Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum"


See, this is what I am talking about. In the pretense of writing supporting posts for TISK, fanatics like MSK are taking jabs and potshots at TIS-USA all the time. Discerning readers will see through their shallow veil. And this is the same guy who a few posts back wanted everyone to ignore this and move on. And now he is back giving "advice" on this matter.

A scoop, breaking news.. in summary

Initial contract between TM and IR in 2002: Both will jointly produce and hold ownership to TIS in all its forms (speculative then itself!!). TM will invest money. IR will compose. The profits if any will go towards starting music institutions. There was a clause that both parties have to agree on distribution details.

2-3 years later,

TM campaigned nationally and internationally for donations. Yahoo group got into action and tried to mobilise funds. Not enough. TIS-USA came in. Active campaigning was launched in US. Lukewarm response from Europe. TIS-USA attained significance. It faced barriers in the form of lack of credibility. IR was asked to visit US and add credibility to the project, since till then there was no word from him about the project. He made couple of speeches stating his wish and presented it as his dream.

By mid 2004 just enough funds and logistics for Tamil version with English lyrics which was completed by the end of 2004. Decision was made to release TIS in its present form and negotiations for distribution contracts commenced.

Sony was approached. Sony asked for sufficient pre-release orders to ascertain marketability. Insufficient pre-release orders and Sony was not interested. 4 months passed. Tsunami diverted attention of people. Charity was less forthcoming for TIS obviously in the aftermath of tsunami.

Saregama made an initial agreement to distribute and negotiations were on to work out the details. Release dates were fixed. Some corporate sponsorship deals came along. TM was able to recover major part of its debts. TM's confidence in TIS had by then waned and was not hoping for anything more and was only keen to break even and reap on the credibility of having helped make TIS. Whatever Saregama offered was good enough. IR decided otherwise and rejected the deal.

The clause in the original contract came in handy for IR. His agreement was necessary for any contract that TM made over TIS!!! Major fallout between TM and IR. IR threatened to withold release of TIS ('duress'). Time was running out since the release date was fixed. The deadlock had to be sorted out between IR and TM. Both sit down again on the negotiation table to work out a compromise. TM surrenders the original contract.

The new contract: IR will hold the intellectual copyright for TIS-current version. TM will continue to hold joint ownership with IR for its future distribution in India only. The music company which will distribute TIS in its current version in India will be chosen by IR. TM will be given CDs to recover their financial investments and the corporate sponsorships will go to TM. TIS in its current form will be jointly presented so that TM is recognised for its efforts. TM will have no say in the contract negotiations of distributors abroad. A delay in distribution by any music company will be delayed in USA so that TM has sufficient time to recover its investments from USA. (apparently IR was supremely confident of his idea of fair play and maintained his smiling cordiality through out while TM just couldn't break through the wall)

Above are only key points more interesting clause in the contract which will become evident in the near future.

The result: TM agrees to the new contract though cries foul privately. Both parties agree to present cordiality in public prior to its release since it is in their best interest. TM/TIS-USA launches a fresh campaign asking donors to buy CDs in bulk not just for their own listening but also as a year long gifts to their friends. Campaigns for people to pre-order giving the impression that people may not get the CD otherwise and also promises same day delivery of its release. Making of TIS DVD confusion sets in. Yahoo Group works with TM in TN and manages the stalls for sales. Surprise surprise - TM runs out of CDs delivered by the music company within couple of days of release. No such luck to TIS-USA which struggles to empty its stocks.

more later.....

Friends, Any of you member of Bay Area telgu association? Large telgu population in Bay Area,CA! Most of them will definetely be exposed to IR's music! Is there an opportunity for TIS-sales there????????
http://www.bata.org/index.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vijayr

"Your half baked comments like " he did more than this " etc shows just your venting and frustartion after you have done all the hard work.. It has not definitely helped the problem you have in your hand."


"Not very professional/Systematic. Your letter from TM ( Fr.Jegath ) also seems like a desperate/Childish measure to me."

"There was no official email to the donors saying the project is completed and scheduled to release. I had to check the website to get the update.."

"Instead of that your approach seems to be just venting your frustration and indirectly pointing fingers in a public forum"


See, this is what I am talking about. In the pretense of writing supporting posts for TISK, fanatics like MSK are taking jabs and potshots at TIS-USA all the time. Discerning readers will see through their shallow veil. And this is the same guy who a few posts back wanted everyone to ignore this and move on. And now he is back giving "advice" on this matter.

---

Vijayr, this is getting tiresome. Your posts seem to be one flamebait after another. If you have anything constructive to say about this issue, please do. Otherwise, YES, we get your point.

Now, can you wait until the other side of the issue comes out?

ayyo dude...don't give a lead for another argument :-(

Rajasaranam,

There was post from you which is obviously now lying under so many other posts. You sarcastically said that other group members can have their party now...or some thing meaning what was quite obvious from your post.

I would like to mention that I am a ARR fan and I almost listen to only his music some 95% of time. I adore him and I consider him as a genius...have no doubt about that. But that does not make my vision towards IR blurred. I am speaking on belaf of 100s of ARR fans like me who still have high regards of IR. (ARR fans..like maddy..I hope you agree to me)

You have to belive that I was one amoung the very very few who bought TIS immediately from MW upon its arival. I do not regret for that. I am pained by reading the matters here and I have een posted here asking fans to look IR music and his personal attitudes as two different things mutually exclusive of each other.

In your whole discussions about this issue since it started, can you find a single post from any ARR fan ridiculing IR or the effort or TIS for the matter. ? Can you find any sarcastic ridicule or provocationg post from any of my group guys on IR on this issue.? Any any of ARR group member taken any sides in this?

Imagine this hypothetical case. Replace IR with ARR and TIS with any other album of ARR which had created huge prerelease hype and later upon release received a lukeworm response...would you or many of the regular trouble makers from your side abstained from making fun of ARR in his treads???...Imagine..

I could clearly see that you meant only ARR group members like Maddy etc in your post, asking them to have party..in a sence asking them to come and spoil the thread...but I could also understand that you did not mean it in the form of hurting anybody...or say demean anybody. What I could infer is that your impression about ARR fans added with the troubled water in the IR's pond made you come out with that one liner automatically.

Thru this long post I just want to set things right and say that ARR fans are not like what you think or presume...We are a mature lot and are REAL MUSIC FANS

Sorry if this post has hurt anybody..it is not intended that way.

Well, it is tough to spend time on all responses. I will stick to my appraisal of Fr Jegath's letter. Now, who am I to do that? Morally speaking, with my negligible contribution towards TiS, you guys could pounce and ask that question. However, we have finally descended to character-analysis of public persons so I guess I can post my 2 cents:(which (literally) probably was my contribution anyway!):
1. It is clear that IR held up signing the agreement or forcing his agreement on Fr Jegath and TM.
2. Why did the latter take that? According to people who know him and TiSK, it is because of total benevolence and a desire to see IR's monumental work released. We have to believe that - though personally I do believe that each person in the chain had their own personal agenda(if it was no more rebirths for IR, I am sure Fr Jegath had some similar gratification as motivation(dotn punce on me and say christianity doesnt believe in rebirth - it could be some other spiritual reason - and TiSK sure has a personal reason(maybe his personal desire to make something worthwhile of his life - I, for one, for all my cynical nature would sure fantasise about sacrificing as much as TiSK to achieve something as monumental as his efforts have achieved though living that out would be a nightmare. )
3. It is clear that Fr Jegath, TM and TIS-USA have had the gratification of playing their part in something as 'significant' as TiS - which is clear from Fr Jegath's latter as well.
4. Having doen all this, now they are realising that they are 10 feet deep in water.
5. I am sorry, this was predicted way back in 2003 in this very forum, in this very thread. At that time, it was just someone playing the devil's advocate. There were clear exhortations( from what looked like mischief makers then) that "What will you do if IR cheated you in this manner- yes, exactly the manner that has been described?"
6. I am sorry to say those people were dubbed as mischief mongers and were derided as people out to defame IR and look what it has led to?
Personally, my heart goes out, not even for TM but for Mr TiSK, who right before my eyes, has been hit below the belt.
7. And I am sorry, Fr Jegath conveniently passing the buck to IR to blame for TIS-USA's fate doesnt get much sympathy from me. Who is he to forgive IR? .If anyone, it is TiSK who has the moral uphand in all this. If Fr Jegath is sincere about his obligation to TiSK and TIS-USA, he has to make this issue public, raise questions about IR's morality in Tamil Fora (very easy to do, just pass on this site's address to Kumudam or Vikatan - they would be happy to lap it up and out of all that churning, we can hope that truth will come out).
Why, gnani and his cohorts in small magazines would be more than willing to rake the issue up.
If he is not going to do that for TiSK, I am sorry, I dont have any sympathy for him.
8.(sorry I lost track of numbers!)By pre-emptively forgiving IR, Fr Jegath has given no chance for the truth to emerge.

I will not take Fr Jegath's words as the last words on this controversy - someone has to accuse IR in the public and force him to react. If he does so, based on his reactions, I will condemn/condone him. Till then for a truly objective observer (ie) who has no sort of conscious/unconscious bias for either party(no faith component - be it "IR can do no wrong" faith of the IR fanatic or "Fr Jegath cannot do any wrong" faith of the Fr Jegath acquaintances) judgement will be reserved.


vijay, I have to reply to you. Based on what you said, you are justiffied in suspecting IR and raising questions on his morality. Now that you have explained, it definitely makes sense. But you have to understand that it wasnt obvious at all before this explanation so this explanation was necessary - this is what I meant last time when I asked you to clarify - not that you should clarify your position to everyone but any objeective poster should, shouldnt he?)
Also, none of what you said as reasons are strong enough for me (simply because I stand in the middle - I dont know either TiSK or Fr Jegath or IR personally to conclude strongly on their motives - I can only go by information available on public domain and not disputed by either party - simply put, you know more than I know but you(when I say you, I include everyone from TM and TIS-USA) havent shared it with us except as 'hints' and 'inuendo's

I am sorry to say TiSK Sir , while this will definitely get you support from people who you know and your moral courage and righteousness, I would like you to consider the point of view of the average detached observer(and it is very important that you do because in terms of legal or ethical support like boycotting IR's future albums you need support from people like me - when I say this you, TISK personally might not need this but I guess quite a few IR fans like Kiru have mentioned this as a course to take in the future) - and we will not be satisfied with forgiveness and that sort of thing. I will support you full-heartedly if you take legal action over IR or atleast work to expose his wrong-doings in the public domain. I, here, again, dont take it as arrogant I, rajdes. I think I am articulating for hundreds like me here who see it from a different point of view.

It is not very clear from Fr.Gaspar's letter whether he or TM espoused the cause of TISK's huge personal loan, by making IR aware of this before handing over the funds to IR or is IR blisfully under the impression that whatever money that was raised by TIS-USA was by voluntary contribution and hence he had mo moral obligation to compensate TISK ?
Questions!!!

Why should Father Gaspar urge people esp TIS-USA to forgive IR when they have borne the brunt? Probably TM is magnanimous enough to do so. How is TM planning to do the damage control? Atleast now after all these, have they confronted IR's camp in a more professional manner , say by having some sort of ombudsman?

I have a few questions: Nothing personal here but I guess the following questions, if answered unambiguously, will give us a clue on who-is-who, what-is-what and who-is-what in this controversy?
1. Does IR know about TiS-USA's obligation. I will take TiSK's word for this. Did he know this before the release?
2. What were the objectives of TM viz-a-viz executing this project
a)in 2003
b)in 2004
c) in 2005 January
d)in 2005 July
e) just Before release
I hope you are not offended but from what I remember, this many versions of the objectives of the project were heard from 2003.
3. What was the original verbal agreement between(forget the legal documents - just what was the expectation at each of this level - and was it communicated to both parties at each level at that time?Can anyone state this without ambiguity?)
a) IR and TM/Fr Gasper
b) TM and TIS-USA
c) IR and TIS-USA
( I am sure someone here can answer this unambiguously and without any shred of doubt)
4. From what I can see, IR, right through the release has been harping on his rebirth-factor as the reason for this project he undertook. Why didnt he or even Fr Gasper mention the Research College angle in the TiS Release function?Why? Why, indeed? Or did they mention and I missed it?Why didnt the TM take him to task for that at that point?
5. Why did everyone concerned with the project suddenly jump on the Tsunami relief bandwagon in 2005 January? What happened to it now?
6. What was that about lobbying for the Grammy award? Why should anyone lobby? Why should anyone spend even a single cent or even a minute of his valuable time on trying to get the Grammy award for IR? Wasnt the project started with more significant objectives? If so, why someone should divert their attention to this insignificant bit when that time can be spent on achieving the original objectives - namely, setting up music foundations in TN and SL and helping Tsunami Relief?
7. Why should I not dismiss the "forgive" angle as a red herring? I mean, if IR was even ethically in the wrong, state it here - and IR will suffer. I mean, we already have fans like Kiru losing enthusiasm for his music so obviously, if you post clear unambiguous allegations(hey I dont even need proof - I will take your word for it), then IR will, I am sure, lose more fans. Please dont forgive him. Sorry he doesnt need it. If he is in the wrong, what he needs is a kick in the butt - even if he loses one fan because of this, that would be justice done in my opinion.

These questions really intrigue me. I dont know the Father so I dont want to assume his innocence without a proper answer to these questions

To IR, I would ask the following questions:
1. Why hasnt he responded to these allegations at any level. Presumably, tamilcinema.com may not be a reputed site but still , it is read by enough people so doesnt he think it is his obligation to issue a clarification yet?
2. Does he consider compensating fans like TISK, out of his personal wealth, even as an option? If he doesnt, my respect for him will go down several notches. Has this avenue been explored and turned down already by IR?Can someone answer that
3. Did IR use profits from TiS for
a) The Offering in the temple
b) Bhava's wedding. Is it just a coincidence that the wedding took place just around the time of the post-release
4. Is anyone here alleging that
a) IR planned to use the gullible public and planned in 2003 that TM and TIS-USA will collect money from public and take loans and release the CD and then he can scoot off with the profit? Did he do this? Boy, in that case, he must be a criminal mastermind, right? Does anyone have the guts to make this allegation? Stick out your throats, if you can.
b) IR just evolved with the time and his initial idea was to get his talents noticed by releasing a symphony using money raised by TM. Later, when he saw the opportunity, he made further inroads and profiteered?

Clear-aa yaaravadhu allege pannungappa. Make it a definitve statement - adhukku peru dhaan allegation - hint ellam kudutha adhukku peryar speculation. Sorry, not everyone knows everyone in the project personally to believe that. Naan solradhu harsh-a irundhaa < I am really sorry>, but unga point of view-ku opposite point of view-vum irukkum. Adhai suppress panna mudiyaadhu.

Also, idhai solliye aaganum. For all whatever has passed, I realise that TiS would not have been possible without significant efforts of TiSK and Fr Gasper. I must really thank them for the personal pleasure I have derived from their hardowrk for close to, what, 3 years. If nothing else, TiSK has achieved something that we, the other people who are arguing here, cannot expect to achieve in a lifetime. I am sure he has the best wishes, blessings and support of many fans and I am sure it will get him out of the mess. Ennala mudinja alavu copies naan vangitten - but since I bought in India so I dont know if it will benefit him. I too believe that it is our duty to buy as many as we can afford, for the simple reason that but for the efforts of this man, you would simply not have been able to hear this masterpiece from IR. We would have been forced to satisfy our palates with COA and TTLS, adhukkagavavadhu he deserves a lift from us.

Irrespective of kavin's motives ro credentials(as perceived by people who say, sorry, hint, that "IR has cheated") , can someone answer his questions or respond to the sequence of events he has outlined?
I mean, it is alright to discredit him saying his posts are nonsense but a fair-minded person would actually negate/confirm what he has posted as the sequence of events and role played by various parties in the making of TiS.

Someone said "Dont be so humble. You are not so great" appadinnu.
When I read about the forgiveness statment, I dont know why this quote flashed past my mind.

Adding some more important questions from previous posters since my posts have moved those to old responses:
(following courtesy njv)
1. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD in USA at the same time TIS-USA launched the CD,then TIS-USA would have been financially impacted - This didnt happen

2. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD now/in future, it will have some impact to TIS-USA on a long run TIS will be an ever selling album. So far this didnt happen. So give the benefit of doubt to IR, because we are after all his fans!

3. If IR along with his "other" partnership release TIS-CD in other part of the world, it would have impact to Tamil maiyam (and hence TIS-USA, since TIS-USA funded majority of the money). Is it the case.

3.a TIS is being marketted by AgniMusic in Malaysia. Is this agreement between IR and Agni or TM and Agni? Who can answer this question

3.b. In UK and Canada, Indian edition of TIS (Welgate) is being sold. Who is marketting Indian edition of TIS in UK/USA. Is it TM or IR thru' his "other" partnership?

3.c Who is selling TIS in other tamil populated countries such as Srilanka, Middle East, France (believe me, Paris this is the hub of thiruttu vcd!)

njv said "who will answer". I say the people who have made hints, allegations and inuendos have to answer my questions, kavin's version and the above questions by njv. Otherwise, any objective person can only dismiss the issue.

And no, I am not IR or YSR or KR or Bhavadharini in disguise!

rajdes, I didnt read through all your long posts(also you seem to be replying after 3 days every time) nor do I intend to drag the discussion any further. But I have clarified my stance(atleast somewhat) earlier.I have some of the same questions as you do too and hopefully they will be addressed by the concerned parties(including IR) in the near future. I was only irked by the attitude of some ppl here who wanted to ignore the whole thing and move on, since it was IR who was involved.

rajdes says, 'TiSK has achieved something that we, the other people who are arguing here, cannot expect to achieve in a lifetime. I am sure he has the best wishes, blessings and support of many fans and I am sure it will get him out of the mess'


I agree with you on this!! My sincere wishes to Dr.shankar, as a friend, a IR fan who is enjoying TIS, will always value your contribution to this project. I will try to help you in whatever way I can.

While all this issue is giong on, I heard that few "major" companies are already talking to IR with regards to his next symphony. This time for a change the business is discussed at first, since IR is going to "charge" for composing as well!

Please dont pull my tounge and ask for more details. If you dont want to belive me and quote me as a liar, I am perfectly happy with that than giving out any names now!

rajdes, Fr. Jegath and TISK are not saying it - but I can deduce that they are accusing IR of getting a 'kickback' from Wellgate. It seems very plausible to me.
kavin's narration of sequence of events does not change my impression of the situation. I dont know what he thinks. But thanks to him for the sleuthing.
TISK, is also saying indirectly, that IR has to speak on this issue.

If Kavin's sequence of events are facts:

a. IR did not have an issue with the original terms of the agreement between TM & IR until to the point negotiations were taking place with Sony & Saregama.

b. The diagreement came in when TM wanted to settle with Saregama at terms which TM thought would be sufficient to pay off their debts but IR felt was beneath his perceived value of the work.

c. Therefore he rengotiated the deal with TM to get the sole power to negotiate but felt that he was being fair to TM and TIS-US by providing CDs to them for use earlier than others for those territories at a discounted price.

Before coming to the judegement of finding IR guilty, you have to take into account the fact that IR may have believed that TIS could have been undersold to its value based on the financial pressures building on TM and hence decided to renegotiate the deal.

By giving market exclusivity during the launch phase and providing 8000 CDs at a discount price (about $5 was mentioned here before compared to a selling price of $15), he could have felt that TIS-US could make out $80,000 in profits in lieu of the loans. This may be a honest misassessment of demand and pride in his work that would have made IR not wanting to undersell to its value and have no evil motives at all.

If money making was his motive, he would not have split with many top producers/directiors based on principles. He would be a media hog rather than shy away from the media. He would not be politically incorrect if money making was his objective in life.
I wish when TM had renegotiated, they had asked Wellgate to repay the loans from the profits.


Before anyone screams, read the first sentence - this is all if the sequence of events stated by Kavin are indeed facts -

#c - is not a good reason to renegotiate the contract. Since his consent was required for any deal, IR could have always negotiated a better contract with anybody, within the boundaries of the original contract. In Kavin's, account, only TIS was to recover its contribution by selling CDs. TM had to recover its contribution from royalties from the distributor. If the distributor agreed upon is one solely favored by IR, there are reasons for suspicion of a kickback.
To play the devil's advocate, the reason for renegotiation of contract, is for IR to regain control of the product and thereby profit from it. I hope, whenever, Kavin says, IR holds the copyright, he is referring to the non-profit IR foundation. If not, this itself, is a clear misuse of public money for personal profits (albeit with TM and TIS-USA also being responsible for abetting it).

vijay, I understand that you are irked by the attitude of IR fanatics. But again I cannot agree that that could be a reason to tarnish IR - admittedly, your stance is based on what you have heard about IR's behaviour in the past and knowledge of some details about this transaction, presumably because you know something from TiSK or TM. But
again and again and again, questions are being swept under the carpet - it is just like "Okay we financed this. IR cheated us. Believe us. Have blind faith in us and support us". It will not work like that. Even someone who knows TiSK as hazily as I know and is inclined to help might not come forward with this sort of attitude from you. I mean, if IR fanatics' reaction irks you enough for you to deliberately post extreme views on IR, your deliberate extreme views on IR could also evaporate some of the potential money makers for TiSK. I hope you understand that.
Besides, you may have enough faith in TiSK and TM so you might accept that IR has cheated just because TiSK and TM say so. Sorry the general public need not subscribe to that - and in doing that he is in the same moral plane as you - his blind faith is in IR , your open-eyed faith is in TiSK. In my view, both stances are the same. You dont have proof that IR has cheated but you have already taken a 90% view that he cheated. By the same token, blasphemous as it might seem here, the IR fanatic has a right to pre-judge that TiSK and TM are not telling the whole truth.

I can only post irregularly because of the nature of my work and my commitments. If you wont read through my posts and stick to your opinion, what can I say - you just dont want to hear the other side of the view, do you? Upto you, one side of the picture never ever gives the whole picture -Hthat is why I am asking you guys to give the full picture offrom your POV, becaue I want to know the full picture not just the picture painted by IR fanatics - but unfortunately, I am only getting one-sided opinions and judgements not cold facts either from you or TiSK or anyone.

Also, TiSK said 2 parties have already responded and only IR hasnt responded. This is not true. TiSK and Fr Gasper have only hinted. Their response is as misted in mystery as IR's non-response.

Sorry, there is more to this than meets your eye or mine. I am waiting for the truth but I think you have already made a judgement that IR is wrong, which may be right but anyone who is condemning IR now, even on the basis of their faith in Fr. or TiSK are not being objective. This includes you.

One curious thing is people who express faith in IR and say that "IR cannot ever be wrong" are blind fanatics (ofcourse they are - this part is indisputable)
But people who express faith in Fr Gasper and believe that he can never do wrong are not? Why should I not question his motives and ask for proof from you guys instead of going by blind faith on him? Ofcourse, he might be a saint but why should I believe that based on *blind faith*? Why am I a blind IR fanatic if I ask for proof?Che, naan proof kooda ketkalai allegation dhaan kettaen.
*Why?*
Unga logic padi, consider this:
IR has worked on some social causes before and donated and performed concerts for social causes before so can anyone who worked with him during that time and lost touch with him later and thus, saw only the good side of IR preclude the possibility of IR ever doing wrong ever? Appadi solravar blind fanatic-aa? Sensible person-aa? Please choose only one out of the two answers.
.

kiru, now we are beginning to talk. So there is a prima-facie case and there is a plausible motive for IR to take kick-backs. Good.Agreed. Is this what happened? Do we have enough reason to conduct a court-martial of IR in our hearts and hang him(ie) stop listening to him for his 'crimes' based on this plausibility?

kiru, what bothers me is this forgiveness angle. This is not at all fair. In Christianity, paava mannippu is kept confidential, right?. Correct me I am wrong, it is given if the paavi confesses to his faults, and the assumption is that that implies he feels sorry for it. Correct-aa? Ippadi, public-aa IR-kku, IR ketkamaleye Paava Mannippu edharku? Dont take it as a religious slur, I just want to understand one particular aspect of this issue. I will withdraw this post if it offends anyone.

curiouser and curiouser....

TiS seems resigned to have a permanent cloud of dust around it. As TM and Tis-USA have decided to get on with it, I dont envisage any conclusive end to the speculations. And IR being very non-communicative with his projects(right from 1993 symphony days and much before), it is unlikely he will ever come public to clear his name. Which is not going to happen as TM/TiS-USA are not going to take up the issue with him, as doing that will only vitiate the aura around a great personality. Even if they decide to battle and win, it will only be a pyrrhic victory! But the finger of suspicion will always point to IR since his enigmatic qualities are well known to the public. You dont even have to be a critic to think in this direction.

Besides, everything is in the eyes of the beholder. Now it is well known that IR hated the press. Going through the few press interviews he gave, the IR fan(including myself) would feel the scribe was trying hard to get IR to mouth some slander or arrogant statement. But honestly, even as a staunch IR fan, putting myself in the journalist's shoes, I would feel reasonably irritated with IR's monologues and one-line answers. I would definitely feel interviewing a guy like IR would be a big nightmare and hate such an assignment.

If IR's music means more than anything else, you would demolish every contrary notion and hand over the benefit of nightmare to IR. If you are a fair minded fan, despite your addiction to his works, you will definitely feel that TM/TiS-USA got a raw deal.(Now this of course is as per MY DEFINITION of fair!). Since IR is the hub of this project, you will feel IR can do anything and get away unscathed, since TM and TiS-USA are just newbies to the trade.

rajdes, dont analyse too hard to get the context of FJG's "manippu" statement - the answer lies in your earlier statement itself - FJG need not be a saint coz of his designation - If what he says and does is coz of his beliefs, then he would not have been involved in TiS nor have been an LTTE sympathiser as he is well known.

There are absolutely no absolutely in this world, everything is gray!

warm regards
*

[A Rajiv-cum-Prabhakaran fan :) ]

errata:
benefit of nightmare = benefit of doubt
absolutely no absolutely = absolutely no absolutes

oh!prabhu, no problems. I will not lose a day's sleep if it turns out that IR is a cheat. In the sense that I am not linking my emotional well-being to IR's honesty :-). Ofcourse, one's heart will then go out for TM and TIS-USA. That is a different story.

My point is
1) It is clearly established and repeated that blind IR fanaticism is well, stupid. Anyone believing that IR is absolutely innocent and can never do wrong at all is stupid and a fanatic. Fair enough.
2) Will not the same norm apply to blind faith on the other side? How does slandering IR balance out the blind statements made by fanatics of IR? Fine, slander to your heart's content but for someone to be taken seriously with their slander, they've got to at the least make a definitive allegation. Summa Person X is honest according to my evaluation so IR is bound to be wrong-nu logic sonna sirippu dhaan varudhu.There is no difference between blind IR fanatics and them. I would put both on the same moral/ethical plane.

I am irritated for the same reason vijay got irritated with statements like "IR can never do wrong" or "let's move on - yaaru cheat panna enna". By the same token, "Hint! Hint!IR thappu panninaru namma mannichuduvom" appadinnu mottaiya sonna, in my books that is slander;slur;blasphemy;inuendo. I wont hesitate to decry that sort of statement.

ir interview panradhy nightmare-na pannadheenga. It sells copies-nu dhaane you are going to him for quotes. Appo, suffer the agony. Magazine-oda labathukkaga dhane avar kitta poranga. Sondha labathukkaga dhaane avaru kitta interview-kku poranga.
Namma ellam perfect humans, avaru mattum dagul party, lollu party, sondha laabathukkaga enna vena pannuvarnu cycle gap-la auto vitta eppadi? 90% of humans, including many who take the moral high horse here are opportunists who will do anything for personal profit(that profit need not be material - it could be some spiritual high/popularity/furthering one's social agenda etc). And ellam aana appuram, we always blame others for our plight - namma side-um thappunnu vothukkave mattom. Adhu dhaan inge nadakkudhu.
IR dagul party-na, indha vishayathula, adhula paadhi dagul-ukku responsibility-avadhu mathavangalaiyum serum. Mothama, IR dagul-nala fans ellam emathapattangannu sonna, sirippu dhaan varudhu

Seri vidunga, enakku enna. Ethai thinna enna. Pitham thelinja sari. Fullstop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rajdes

3. Did IR use profits from TiS for
a) The Offering in the temple
b) Bhava's wedding. Is it just a coincidence that the wedding took place just around the time of the post-release

---

IR makes 25 laksh / movie for the past decade. if he really wanted 1 crore, its a matter of 4 days - 1 day for 1 movie. I am sure the quality wont be great but why would he care if making money is the only aim.

Between 2003 and 2005 how many movies IR worked on? Less than 10, from the same guy who did more than 60/year.

So I do have a "feeling" that IR did attempt TIS sincerely. Something got changed, god only knows what, that put him, TM and TIS-USA in a situation we are in now.

I hope TISK/Fr will divert the questions that we raise here to IR. Dont know if he replies or not, but atleast he should know that people are not blind.

Hello All,


A lot of nonsense is being discussed in these columns of late. The impression i get from all people is that ilayaraja has commited a great mistake. The forum seems to be divided into those who think that he should confess to his so called sins and those who think that regardless of his crimes and misdemeanours his music is what that really matters. Basically it seems that IR has been judged guilty even without a trial .


I have been sceptical about TIS from the beginning itself, due to a lost of reasons. The ambitions, motives and scope were not clear. A new, but controversial thing is that involvement of fans and fan groups in funding of the project.

I would like to analyse this issue from all viewpoints and try to stir a decent, rational and intelligent debate. It is not a big suprise that i have given preference to my viewpoints , since it is my posting.

First of all, what were the motives of the project and were they viable? The official line is to take the message of thiruvasagam to the younger generation who have lost touch with their spiritual roots. Only IR can tell us what the real motive is. I dont think making thiruvasagam in symphony is any way to do that. For starters, there are two unknowns( thiruvasagam and symphony), which makes it difficult to reach a larger audience. Contrary to original claims that it would be made in tamil, english, hindi, german and so on, eventually we ended up making it only in tamil, which severely restricts the range of the product to a few tamil speaking people in tamilnadu and the tamil diaspora, which is not so large compared to the hindi speaking group. Making an instrumental project without music, on the lines of HOW TO NAME IT or NOTHING BUT WIND would have given an international reach. Dont know who gives ideas to IR or if any person has that power to.

Second, once a project has been conceived, it has to be implemented in a professional manner. Once the feasibily and viability of the project has been ensured, a professional approach has to be taken to take the project to its conclusion. Who dealt with this. A Father who has no experience in managing such a project and a bunch of novice fans who have no experience in a project of such scale. It was obvious from this stage, that it would be a roller coaster ride all the way.

Fund raising- This was not at all done in a professional way and i have serious misgivings about the way it was done. I am still not sure why fans should have to fund the project. As somebody said if IR wanted to do this project for self satisfaction ane ego integration of achieving his lifes purpose, he should have funded it himself and it is not a big deal for a man who has earned so much in the last twenty five years( 25lakhs perfilm as suggested by somebody is absolutely over the top. Even top music directors (contemporary)like harris jeyaraj dont earn that much. Yuvan earns approximately 6 lakhs per film) He even donated more than 20 lakhs worth of jewels to his favourite deity.The fund raising was done professionally by some , such as the yahoo groups, where each contributor has been listed and the entire money which has been raised been announced and then handed over to the tamil mayyam. What about the other groups. For starters, i paid more than 500 dollars for the project , which has not been listed till now. I can prove this by my receipts. I can give the list of my friends names who have had similar experiences. The tamil mayyam and other groups keep claiming about loans they incurred for the project. I am baffled by these claims. Throughout the project , nobody said that TIS- USA are getting loans for the project. I think this is the biggest mystery in the project. We were led to believe that TIS_ USA is involved in bringing together people who were willing to donate to the project. At what stage were they involved in the sponsoring of the project. Who did they get the loans from? ARe they willing to publish the guys who gave them loans.


What is the expenditure of the project? Why did it require 1.4 crores. The expenses involved seem to be the hungarian orchestra and other foreigners used in the project. My technical knowledge in music is not adequate, but in my opinion, only POLLA VINAYEN requires a symphonic orchestra. All other songs could have been easily recorded in india. The album does not have such a staunch western classical slant, which could not have been recorded in india itself. Why go to Hungary?Only one song has childish english lyrics. Why do we have to go to New york for his lyric. Even myself could have written the english lyric. And why use the new york guy for sound mixing. I cant see any big necessity for that. AR Rahman and Harris Jeyaraj have incredible sound recording in their albums, which are better than TIS on any day. There is no point in keeping on whining that it costed 1.4 crores. Nobody is going to believe it, unless the exact expenses are listed. I am sure more than 50 % of the project has been funded by fans and sponsors, so u cant keep saying the budge is 1.4 crores. Does the budget include salary for IR and his trips. It would be a big surprise and disappointment if it is so.


There were inconsistences, misinformation throughout the project. There is no time or space for listing all of them. The project date has been postponsed so many times. They were saying IR met kalam one day and he actually meets them 2 months after that. There were claims galore, none of which seem to have materialise, such as the claim of donation of profits tsunami victims. What happened to those?


Initially it was said that they have to go to welgate, because there were no takers. it was clearly mentioned in one of those earlier letters by father or his group that big names did not think the project is viable. Eventually it landed up on welgate. So , who are we supposed to believe. Just because a father or some guys in US accuse IR,it doesnt automatically mean IR is guilty and it does not also mean we are going to believe it.


It is fair to ask the people involved, to give a list of all donors, including the sponsors and how much money was raised. This will enable to find out where it went wrong.

It is a big shame that the project is called a loss. No project in recent times, including movies got as much unanimous publicity as TIS got. The media and celebrites endorsed it unequivocally and the sales was unparalleled. No non film album in recent times has received so much warmth and support. The sales record should be published to confirme if it is really a loss and if it is a loss the blame should completely fall on tamil mayyam and other guys who were involved who failed to use such goodwill and publicity.

The Fathers letter seems to be suggesting that IR should be adored for his music rather than for his financial dealings. I am not prepared for accepting this verdict. It has to be proved that IR has done something wrong. He may have, but equally he might not have and everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty. For me the needle of suspicion points exactly to the opposite direction of IR . It is for these people to clarify their positions. If there are loopholes in the contract, it is the mistake of the guys who signed the contract. It is a different matter if IR has violated a contract. But if he is just doing what is in the contract, how can we blame him. It is very implicit in the fathers letter that IR is doing things according to the contract.


My conclusion, although not completely based on solid evidence, but putting together what is in public domain is that the project surprised everybody and did far better than expected. So there is lot of money available. Sharing the spoils has become the bone of contention and everybody seems to be pointing the finger at the other person


Mere barking and expletives wont make me change my opinion. Sane and rational arguments are welcome. The whole project is a good case study for everybody who wants to know how a project should not be done.

Dear USA IR fans,
Please pick up your Library card and visit your local library web site and fill out this
'media suggestion form'.
Does it guarantee us they are going to stock TIS in their shelves?? NO!
Budget cuts yellam yerukku rt, more over may be the decision is made by one person there, it's up to him or her!
But at least we know we are trying, It is totally worth it!!

Don't forget to print www.tis-usa.com as distributor!!

Please call & follow up on your suggestion too!!

Sample forms:-
Cary memorial Library form for purchase recommandation:
http://www.carylibrary.org/reference/purchase.html

Dr.Shankar, Can you upload some sample tracks of TIS in the web site www.tis-usa.com???
It will be helpful too!! love, Vinu.

" I understand that you are irked by the attitude of IR fanatics. But again I cannot agree that that could be a reason to tarnish IR "

rajdes, my posts these last few days have nothing much to do with IR. I have been responding only to some of the fans here and have not tarnished IR anywhere in my response. I also clarified my earlier comment to Sanjeevi that you wanted a clarification for. So thats that. Anyways, I dont believe that ppl like IR can be easily tarnished by a comment here or there in a net forum. If I say Tendulkar is a jerk that doesnt tarnish him. Its just my opinion, thats all. Its like someone saying here that IR is god or a saint. We dont question him or ask him for proof, thats just his opinion.

"your deliberate extreme views on IR could also evaporate some of the potential money makers for TiSK"

what are the deliberate extreme views on IR I posted here in the last few days? My posts have only been against some of the fans here(and that too only a couple of them).A few HCIRFs have been apathetic here and dont want to ignore all this and "move on" and just listen to TIS.. I did'nt address them in my earlier posts. Also I dont think my posts here would add even an iota to whatever "damage" that has been caused so far by the tamilcinema report, TM's letter etc. in terms of reducing the potential moneymakers.

Also, neither do I have blind faith in TM nor in IR. My reactions here so far have been based on what I have read and heard here and elsewhere and based on my knowledge,(even if superficial) of what had transpired over the last few months. In fact you should be more concerned that some of the even bigger fans here want to sue IR or take legal action or stop listening to his music at all. Some ppl here have flipflopped between showing extreme faith in IR to showing no faith in him at all within a matter of day or two. That should be more worrying to you.

"The media and celebrites endorsed it unequivocally and the sales was unparalleled. No non film album in recent times has received so much warmth and support."...

-May be in TN...what about places like Canada (Toronto has about 200K Srilankan Tamils...those with reasonable spending power) or Europe...was there a proper disti? If so how many were sold? Why TiS-USA cannot sell in Canada, are there any restrictions?...

-How many numbers were sold in Singapore / Malaysia which were not under `wellgate' control and TM-IR jointly appointed the disti (Remember reading KR attending the launch function where one of our senior hubbers, Manisekaran, was supposed to be attending). Going by the `buying-power' criteria again, what are the numbers sold there? And was the guarantee money to TM was lump sum or linked to each CD sold for that territory?

pro20035

Did you pay funds for the project? did you buy a CD? or copied from somebody

Let me tell you something, the problem was, not starting a NOT FOR PROFIT ORGANIZATION in the US for TiS. if they had done that, everything would have been smooth. Secondly, the production cost are really not cheap leave alone producing music.
They were trying to get the ball rolling, as I know a few people who were involved in this project were Doctors, and big wits, but they spent time to promote one thing, Thiruvasagam and Tamil in the US (which was a vision of IR). Probably that is the reason, all the speculation came to force.

If sony or other company had produced, none of the person here would talk.

IR surely did make music talk for him when TiS sales were tremendous, probably IR might not have thought such a demand.

What do you mean, i paid for the project. I paid 500 dollars, which is not listed in the donors site, inspite of me querying me many times. i have the receipt to prove that i paid. and i did not copy the cd. I bought 15 cds and gifted to my friends. I am sure that lot of IR fans did the same. Still it is a wonder, why it should be a loss

Thank you, Ms. Vinu, for your sustained support. I have made arrangements to upload the samples and it is being worked out. Thank you again!

Also, a comprehensive account summary details for TiS-USa will also be uploaded very shortly.
YIA!!

Letter from Fr.Jegath ,in case not published..

Dear Friends,

This mail pertains to a news item that appeared in some web based
magazine and sites with regard to Thiruvasagam and UK distribution
rights, and the resultant confusion among the fans.

At the outset I wish to underline some important things. Ilaiyaraaja
Yahoo Groups for me has been a great and enriching experience of
life. In many a respect. I can never forget the passionate and
proactive support it gave for the TIS project. What brings this
group together and gives relevance to it are the common affection
and appreciation you all have for the great musical genius of
Maestro Ilaiyaraaja and his stupendous contributions to music. This
aspect has to be kept in mind in all our discussions and discerning.
Without an inch of hesitation I can state that like you I am proud
to live at a time when the Maestro lived and his musical genius is
undoubtedly unparalleled. However his musical genius does not make
him God and we should ensure to give him the freedom and space to be
a human being with the inherent human frailties and failures. Seen
from this perspective, I am sure our judgments will be better and
charitable even if there are problems with regard to individuals and
projects, in our case –Thiruvasagam in Symphony. Even such
judgments will be contested from protagonist and antagonist points
of view. That is fine. But such a clarity will again ensure that
none of these would diminish the musical respect we have for this
great genius.

Now about this news on Thiruvasagam and UK rights, I really do not
know. I heard people in the film industry talking about it. However
I must also admit that no overseas distribution arrangement has been
agreed so far (except Malaysia and Singapore) between Tamil Maiyam
and Maestro. Reasons, I don't intend to discuss in public. (Tamil
Maiyam and Ilaiyaraaja Trust are holding joint copy rights, that too
only for Tamil. Tamil Maiyam doesn't have rights for tracks or
interpolation in to other languages). The agreement was signed under
duress as IR had total control and possession of the tracks. The
release of the album became our foremost concern and we had to agree
to sign a contract prepared by his auditor. The original contract
which we had signed at thee start of the project had to be given up
under such a situation. The only oral agreement we had on overseas
distribution was to send 8000 CDs to TIS-USA under Dr.Sankar Kumar
to settle the loans they had incurred to complete this magnum opus.
It is indeed hurting and a crying shame for me personally and for
Tamil Maiyam that these decent people in the USA were first asked by
us to help, borrow and then dumped with CDs to sell and save
themselves.


Right now what I can tell you is, for a project in which we worked
for three years, invested almost 1.5 crores – much of it through
loans, and moved heaven and hell to make it a success, - what we
have received from the distribution company – Welgate so far is only
Rs. 5 lakhs. But for the sponsors we would be in a gravely serious
crisis. So friends if you really care help us to sell some more CDs.
Again Wegate was not our choice. Our choices were either Sony or
Sarigama. Both were willing to release the album and the basics of
the agreement had all been negotiated when IR insisted on Welgate.

Personally I may feel betrayed, insulted or humiliated and continue
to have sleepless nights about the huge remaining debts. That's OK.
After all Thiruvasagam is a great project. We all made it a success.
It has touched the souls of so many. Generations will relish this
masterpiece.

Above all, I believe we are all mature human beings and we should
respect ourselves by transcending. I have transcended. Truth always
has the capacity to speak for itself, in time and for ever.

My prayers are: Our burden of debts should be minimized quickly. You
should all remain positive to the core objectives of Ilaiyaraaja
Yahoo Groups – his music, and music alone.

Thank you. God bless us all.

Cordially,


Rev. Jegath Gaspar Raj.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pro20035

Hello All,


A lot of nonsense is being discussed in these columns of late. The impression i get from all people is that ilayaraja has commited a great mistake. The forum seems to be divided into those who think that he should confess to his so called sins and those who think that regardless of his crimes and misdemeanours his music is what that really matters. Basically it seems that IR has been judged guilty even without a trial .


I have been sceptical about TIS from the beginning itself, due to a lost of reasons. The ambitions, motives and scope were not clear. A new, but controversial thing is that involvement of fans and fan groups in funding of the project.

I would like to analyse this issue from all viewpoints and try to stir a decent, rational and intelligent debate. It is not a big suprise that i have given preference to my viewpoints , since it is my posting.

First of all, what were the motives of the project and were they viable? The official line is to take the message of thiruvasagam to the younger generation who have lost touch with their spiritual roots. Only IR can tell us what the real motive is. I dont think making thiruvasagam in symphony is any way to do that. For starters, there are two unknowns( thiruvasagam and symphony), which makes it difficult to reach a larger audience. Contrary to original claims that it would be made in tamil, english, hindi, german and so on, eventually we ended up making it only in tamil, which severely restricts the range of the product to a few tamil speaking people in tamilnadu and the tamil diaspora, which is not so large compared to the hindi speaking group. Making an instrumental project without music, on the lines of HOW TO NAME IT or NOTHING BUT WIND would have given an international reach. Dont know who gives ideas to IR or if any person has that power to.

Second, once a project has been conceived, it has to be implemented in a professional manner. Once the feasibily and viability of the project has been ensured, a professional approach has to be taken to take the project to its conclusion. Who dealt with this. A Father who has no experience in managing such a project and a bunch of novice fans who have no experience in a project of such scale. It was obvious from this stage, that it would be a roller coaster ride all the way.

Fund raising- This was not at all done in a professional way and i have serious misgivings about the way it was done. I am still not sure why fans should have to fund the project. As somebody said if IR wanted to do this project for self satisfaction ane ego integration of achieving his lifes purpose, he should have funded it himself and it is not a big deal for a man who has earned so much in the last twenty five years( 25lakhs perfilm as suggested by somebody is absolutely over the top. Even top music directors (contemporary)like harris jeyaraj dont earn that much. Yuvan earns approximately 6 lakhs per film) He even donated more than 20 lakhs worth of jewels to his favourite deity.The fund raising was done professionally by some , such as the yahoo groups, where each contributor has been listed and the entire money which has been raised been announced and then handed over to the tamil mayyam. What about the other groups. For starters, i paid more than 500 dollars for the project , which has not been listed till now. I can prove this by my receipts. I can give the list of my friends names who have had similar experiences. The tamil mayyam and other groups keep claiming about loans they incurred for the project. I am baffled by these claims. Throughout the project , nobody said that TIS- USA are getting loans for the project. I think this is the biggest mystery in the project. We were led to believe that TIS_ USA is involved in bringing together people who were willing to donate to the project. At what stage were they involved in the sponsoring of the project. Who did they get the loans from? ARe they willing to publish the guys who gave them loans.


What is the expenditure of the project? Why did it require 1.4 crores. The expenses involved seem to be the hungarian orchestra and other foreigners used in the project. My technical knowledge in music is not adequate, but in my opinion, only POLLA VINAYEN requires a symphonic orchestra. All other songs could have been easily recorded in india. The album does not have such a staunch western classical slant, which could not have been recorded in india itself. Why go to Hungary?Only one song has childish english lyrics. Why do we have to go to New york for his lyric. Even myself could have written the english lyric. And why use the new york guy for sound mixing. I cant see any big necessity for that. AR Rahman and Harris Jeyaraj have incredible sound recording in their albums, which are better than TIS on any day. There is no point in keeping on whining that it costed 1.4 crores. Nobody is going to believe it, unless the exact expenses are listed. I am sure more than 50 % of the project has been funded by fans and sponsors, so u cant keep saying the budge is 1.4 crores. Does the budget include salary for IR and his trips. It would be a big surprise and disappointment if it is so.


There were inconsistences, misinformation throughout the project. There is no time or space for listing all of them. The project date has been postponsed so many times. They were saying IR met kalam one day and he actually meets them 2 months after that. There were claims galore, none of which seem to have materialise, such as the claim of donation of profits tsunami victims. What happened to those?


Initially it was said that they have to go to welgate, because there were no takers. it was clearly mentioned in one of those earlier letters by father or his group that big names did not think the project is viable. Eventually it landed up on welgate. So , who are we supposed to believe. Just because a father or some guys in US accuse IR,it doesnt automatically mean IR is guilty and it does not also mean we are going to believe it.


It is fair to ask the people involved, to give a list of all donors, including the sponsors and how much money was raised. This will enable to find out where it went wrong.

It is a big shame that the project is called a loss. No project in recent times, including movies got as much unanimous publicity as TIS got. The media and celebrites endorsed it unequivocally and the sales was unparalleled. No non film album in recent times has received so much warmth and support. The sales record should be published to confirme if it is really a loss and if it is a loss the blame should completely fall on tamil mayyam and other guys who were involved who failed to use such goodwill and publicity.

The Fathers letter seems to be suggesting that IR should be adored for his music rather than for his financial dealings. I am not prepared for accepting this verdict. It has to be proved that IR has done something wrong. He may have, but equally he might not have and everybody is presumed innocent until proven guilty. For me the needle of suspicion points exactly to the opposite direction of IR . It is for these people to clarify their positions. If there are loopholes in the contract, it is the mistake of the guys who signed the contract. It is a different matter if IR has violated a contract. But if he is just doing what is in the contract, how can we blame him. It is very implicit in the fathers letter that IR is doing things according to the contract.


My conclusion, although not completely based on solid evidence, but putting together what is in public domain is that the project surprised everybody and did far better than expected. So there is lot of money available. Sharing the spoils has become the bone of contention and everybody seems to be pointing the finger at the other person


Mere barking and expletives wont make me change my opinion. Sane and rational arguments are welcome. The whole project is a good case study for everybody who wants to know how a project should not be done.

---

>>>>>>>>
Even top music directors (contemporary)like harris jeyaraj dont earn that much. Yuvan earns approximately 6 lakhs per film)
<<<<<<<<

You are hopelessly out of sync with the TFM Scene...I am told HJ charges almost a crore and yuvan charges 40-60 L.....you meant 60 L right ;-)