thiruvasakam in symphony

vijayr, there is no point you and me discussing this further. I guess we have done what we can given our buying capacity and gifting capacity. I also guess we have put our views in enough detail. Lets bury it.On the whole, "pitham thelinja sari" for the affected parties.

I just want to put one thing - I dont worry about fans who want to sue IR. If they think IR has cheated TM and it bothers them, I WISH THEY SUED IR. Proof of pudding...

njv, just for argument, oru padathukku 25 Lakhs vaanginalum, avaru buvva, petrol idhukku ellaam selavu pannanum. Tax kattanum. Adhu poga micham dhaan projects-la invest panna mudiyum ;-).

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Originally Posted by rajdes

njv, just for argument, oru padathukku 25 Lakhs vaanginalum, avaru buvva, petrol idhukku ellaam selavu pannanum. Tax kattanum. Adhu poga micham dhaan projects-la invest panna mudiyum ;-).

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okay, lets say he does 10 movies in a month, to make up 2.5 crore. Thats not my point. my point is IR did dedicate himself on this for 2+ years and i cant believe he did this for the money. may be he wanted to cheat Fr than making money. I can believe that, but it cant be the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Shankar

You are hopelessly out of sync with the TFM Scene...I am told HJ charges almost a crore and yuvan charges 40-60 L.....you meant 60 L right ;-)

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All MDs pay came recently and triggered the tax dept to raid their house. Here is the list

ARR - 90
HJ - 80
YSR - 50
VS - 40
Bhardwaj - 30
IR - 25 (for the last decade)

Rest of them make between 10 to 30.

6 Lakhs... hmmm may be TV serial MDs might be making that.

njv: point taken. We can only keep speculating. Majority opinion here is that IR's past record (as indicated by articles across the web)indicates that he is well capable of cheating and Fr.'s past record implies he wouldnt cheat. I dont know what aspect of IR's past record made them conclude that way - I havent heard of any dishonest financial transactions by IR.
You've got to be media-savvy. Otherwise, indha maadhiri samyathula you will be hung without a trial.

btw,
"may be he wanted to cheat Fr than making money"
idhukku enna artham?

I think IR has been cunning and business minded. This cannot be equated to cheating. Ofcourse its unfortunate that a person who potrays himself to be seeking divinity is business minded too.

I find the whole thing absolutely murky - if we go by what Fr.Jegath says, then it is inexplicable as to why IR turned down a name like SONY, which would have fetched popularity, marketing and a definite sales figures several light years further ahead than what has been achieved with Welgate!

All along, most of us were under the belief that Sony and other companies had turned down the offer and that is why Welgate was roped in - but after reading Fr.Jegath's letter, I am stumped!

if it was to make money only, all that IR would/could have done, is release an absolutely modern sounding album with Shankar Mahadevan, Sonu Nigam, Shaan etc and got the same released big time - for IR's calibre, composing such an album would have taken less than a day's time!

therefore, money here is not the objective - definitely, IR's desire for creative ventures, has always been burning and this is the prime motivating factor

but, getting some non-descript company like Welgate release this, while a big name like SONY had already agreed to release the same, makes me wonder, if this has to do with the weird eccentricities of a classic GEMINI (zodiac sign), which IR is!

>>>>>>>>>
for IR's calibre, composing such an album would have taken less than a day's time!

<<<<<<<<<

Madhan,
I agree with most of ur arguments except the one above....I have never seen Raja come up with an album in recent times, which could appeal the masses such as "machan pEru madhurE..." (VS) or "thirunelveli halwada.." (HJ) or songs from the albums released by ppl like amit sana / abhijeet sawant...Pls note that I am NOT saying they are GREAT compositions...Its just that Raja CANNOT / WUD NOT come out with such an album.

I have never listened to any recent album of Raja which sounds modern. ONOK, COA all of the suck big time (kAtril varum geethamE is a good song....But definitely not a great one...We expect more than this from Raja)

>>>>>>>
All along, most of us were under the belief that Sony and other companies had turned down the offer and that is why Welgate was roped in
<<<<<<<

I too thot SONY had turned down the offer....I am not going to comment / take sides until we have concrete evidence for the accusation.

Shankar, hmm, sigh! how I long for something like "adiye" (Neengal kettavai) from IR !

shankar, madhan: several dynamics are in play here including IR's desire to do a high-calibre album like TiS. There has been talk of IR having a bad experience with SONY over the RPO Symphony #1(madhan, you were the one who did some research in this direction 2 years back). That might have biased IR against SONY. In general, IR could - and I would bet a week's salary of mine on this - be generally indisposed towards smooth-talking executive types, the kind SONY I am sure employs in thousands and the kind most likely to interact for such business discussions. Welgate on the other hand might have been a bunch of novices who however dont come across as cunning to IR.
This is speculation but these are some of the dynamics that could be in play.
But what will happen here is
1) People with a hate for IR seize this opportunity and inuendo that he planned and executed this cheating exercise - IR is 100% black appadinnu vaadhiduvaargal.
2) Blind fanatics of IR would ofcourse claim the other extreme.

Truth is ofcourse somewhere in between, like the cliche goes.

I think it would be constructive at this juncture to come up with a "CURRENT wish list" from all well-wishers of IR/TM/TIS-USA (means DF'ers)...and if possible, also with an "Action plan towards achieving the wish-list objectives"...

This list and plan could be a dynamic one, means undergoing changes, as more information gets published and facts are made available. (There'll be nay-sayers, obviously, hopefully not many though. If such postings come up, kindly try to ignore as it'll only result in pages of useless discussion and no results)...

To begin, I tried to put together a brief wish-list:

1. For TIS-USA
a) Not to have any financial burden i.e. if any loans, that should be repaid.
b) If any inventory, to be liquidated (both to reclaim space and possibly help objective 1a)
c) Get due recognition from IR for their efforts in the project, probably through a media communication to that effect.
d) TIS-USA to come out with the loan info.

2. For TM
a) Once again, not to have any loans.
b) Have access to accurate (and truthful) sales figures, both in territories in India and abroad.
c) Collect their share as per these figures, which should help 2a
d) Have at least a 50% say in any further sales contracts being signed up, at the minimum till 2a is achieved.
e) TM comes up with complete details as to donors, sponsors, sales commission etc so for as also the details of project expenses, interests paid etc and show how much more is needed.

3. For IR (I assume he has absolutely no financial problem because of this project but probably got some money, though not equivalent to the filmi compensation for the amount of time spent...and it's a fact that he gained immense publicity in the media which kind of revived his name among TN masses again)
a) To clear his name from this controversy - either by correcting any unethical business practice or by helping out the financially affected TM/TIS-USA by some future promotional methods (if the correct sales figures of TIS / newer territories of sales themselves does not pay back)

Now the tough part, action plan for DF'ers.

1. Come out with ideas to get the whole controversy to IR's ears and encourage him to act positively to avoid further mudslinging.
2. Come out with innovative plans / helps to liquidate TIS-USA stock
3. Encourage TM to publish the details.

Hopefully there'll be a bunch who'll agree with this approach...

but whoz gonna do it...esp convey wats happening here to IR

"if it was to make money only, all that IR would/could have done, is release an absolutely modern sounding album with Shankar Mahadevan, Sonu Nigam, Shaan etc and got the same released big time - for IR's calibre, composing such an album would have taken less than a day's time! "

and no one would have bought it, considering the zilch market he has for such stuff these days. The album had to be special, somewhat creative, appeal to devotees(who are large in number) who will buy irrespective of musical quality, need to have enough pre-release hype(with spiritual messages like last birth etc. ) and so on. TIS met most of these. I am not saying that TIS was made just for money, but I dont agree with those who say that if IR wanted to get money he could have easily done run-of-the-mill stuff in a day with popular singers. He doesnt have the market for such stuff anymore. If he had done something along those lines it would have met the same fate as COA or TTLS (with neither Rajni or Vaiko coming forward to promote such albums).

kj,
That's why the immediate action plan is not to actually communicate to IR...but to "throw ideas" as to how to reach his ears...

And before even bothering with him, it may be easier to persuade TM to give transparency to collections - expenses info...(I think TISK has posted earlier in this thread that TIS-USA is going to publish theirs shortly on the tis-usa.com; why not TM also do a similar thing?)

In other words, why not focus on easier objectives (means keep moving with those who can be contacted easier than the "not-so-easily-accessible" IR)

And IMHO, eliminating the financial burdens of TIS-USA / TM is more important that attempting to `clear-up' IR's name...(at least from the POV of this thread)...In any case, few web postings are not to change much the mixed-reputation of IR for 25 years...

Sorry to make this stereotyping statement...thamizhanukku maRadhi adhigam...(proof - the fall and rise of JJ & the many falls and rises of MK)

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Originally Posted by rajdes

btw,
"may be he wanted to cheat Fr than making money"
idhukku enna artham?

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Tamil movie pakarathu illayaya. either Fr's father cheated IR's father so IR is cheater Fr or pona jenmathu pagai. I mean if IR can make money simply by rehasing his previous tunes and that too probably more than what we would have got from TIS dealings, then my gut feeling is that

1. IR really wanted to work on TIs
2. End up giving all movie assignment and focused on TIs
3. At the time of completing TIS, realized that he lsot some money!
4. Cheated Fr.

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Originally Posted by tmrrmt

I find the whole thing absolutely murky - if we go by what Fr.Jegath says, then it is inexplicable as to why IR turned down a name like SONY, which would have fetched popularity, marketing and a definite sales figures several light years further ahead than what has been achieved with Welgate!

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Why would he, specially since they messed up 1st symphony. So the obvious choice were Saregama (known for classic recordings). Other choice would have been T Series, with their largest CD distribution network in the world (yes world!) - but they would rather have some street guy singing for them and make them popular (Anuradha paudwal!) than making less from legends.

Whats clear is that IR did found some new shortcut to make money out of TIS. Whats not clear is why he did that, specially considering the fact that he has completed "ThIS life".

I am saying if he really cheated Fr, he will have rebirth and will be born as a son for SrikanthDeva/Imman/Dhina.

What is the point of going on accusing IR? I dont understand what purpose it is going to serve. First of all , nobody knows what the true version of events is. The most sensible thing to do is for the involved parties to discuss issues with each other, with a mutually acceptable arbitrator. Venting out feelings in a discussion forum is barking at the wrong tree.

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Originally Posted by app_engine

kj,
That's why the immediate action plan is not to actually communicate to IR...but to "throw ideas" as to how to reach his ears...

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If this mail from the father reaches the likes of CharuBala and Gnani they will have Gala time with this.

sats,
I always believe in approaching a problem with a view to solving it...and if it's impossible to solve, at least not to aggravate but to alleviate the pain to the extent possible...neenga solradhu, "theeyai aNaikka petrol ooththaNum"ngaRa mAdhiri irukkungO...

In any case, tis-usa.com is a public domain website and charu, gnani, x,y,z can always view it...

app_engine,

"Kalagam pirandha dhan Nyayam" kedaikum. What iam pained is all this talk of if i dont do this work i will be born again to do this etc etc from IR . If this was true he should not even be bothered about monetary benefits out of it. Spiritually he has gained what he wanted aprom yar adhe distribute panna ivarukku enna.Legally whatever he has done might be okay , but ethically very wrong.

<What is the point of going on accusing IR? I dont understand what purpose it is going to serve. First of all , nobody knows what the true version of events is. The most sensible thing to do is for the involved parties to discuss issues with each other, with a mutually acceptable arbitrator. Venting out feelings in a discussion forum is barking at the wrong tree.>

Pro,

That's what i tried saying in many different ways..but that got interpreted as being indifferent/Critical to TiS-USA and being a IR Fanatic. I am not sure why, as I still believe TiS-USA/TM did a great job in help bringing out TiS, but i guess logistics ( or the lack of it ) probably led them into some sort of ( financial ) trouble.

Cheers
MSK

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If I say Tendulkar is a jerk that doesnt tarnish him. Its just my opinion, thats all. Its like someone saying here that IR is god or a saint. We dont question him or ask him for proof, thats just his opinion.

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Aaaha...
that's exactly right, nobody wants to call the person an Arse H..just because he called Tendulkar a jerk on the same note what makes somebody to label ones who say IR is God or Saint (or for that matter even say no wrong doer until proven otherwise) as Fanatic, as mentioned by u it's just individual person's opinion about the artist/player/celebrity in question but to label these individuals as this and that, I don't know what to say...

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What is the point of going on accusing IR? I dont understand what purpose it is going to serve.

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Well , it's simple, Non Accuser of IR = J(alra) to IR
Accuser of IR = boo...(non jalra) to IR
:lol: :lol: :lol:

//Venting out feelings in a discussion forum is barking at the wrong tree.//

didnt you just do this !!!! not that there is anything wrong in it...i actually think this is actually one of the primary uses of this forum...think about it...where else can you vent your frustrations (about anything) without any real consequences :-))...

"as mentioned by u it's just individual person's opinion about the artist/player/celebrity in question but to label these individuals as this and that,"

well just like how in that individual's opinion IR is a god, in my opinion(and several others') he might be a fanatic. Simple. (what do you mean by "labelling"?)
Its just an expression of opinion, thats all. I am not going to feel sorry about it, especially when you are proud of calling yourself a IR fanatic. Just like this:
"People call us FANATICs but we are not LUNATICs like the ones who call so"

see, you have "labelled" them as lunatics too. It works both ways.


"but to label these individuals as this and that, I don't know what to say"

dont say anything. This discussion is over.

isnt it possible that if someone lets IR know whats going on...(he might know about the financial plight stuff but not know that his image is taking a bashing in the hands of his own hard-core fans...) and he might come forward to help TM and TIS-USA financially. I dont think it would be a big deal for him. On the other hand it is possible that he just doesnt care.....knowing very well that this whole issue wont have any impact on his fans love for his music?

Does any one know about this man close enough to comment. Is he really so shrude n cunning and has no humaneness in him?

<Digression>
Heard IR's assistant Sundararajan passed away last week. Can anyone confirm if this is true?
</Digression>

Yes, Mr. Sundararajan passed away last week after a brief illness. He was 70.

Before joining IR, he was assistant to V Kumar and during that period got to know IR.

When IR made his entry and after some time, he requested Mr. Sundararajan to come join his team. Since then for the past 20 years Sundararajan was with IR.

He was fully incharge of the voice section and for most of the songs it was he who sat with the singers and got the voice mixed. Normally the next day IR will listen to these tracks and approve. Mostly without any change.

But off late Sundararajan was in a bad shape and not in a very happy frame of mind. All because of the volatile nature of his boss....who has really started behaving like a boss. So he had to face lot of insults and heart burnings.

He was admitted to Apollo and to take the body out they had to pay about Rs. 2.5 lacs...and Viji Manuel took care of that.

Of course, IR also paid Rs. 1 lakh to the family. But it was too little too late.

He should have done that when the man was alive and kicking.

But then his priorities in life has always been different.

You can not expect normal human behaviour and reactions there!

Bala : oh..God...


May God rest the departed soul in peace.

Digression
Bala Ramasamy, a question (since you seem to have some industry connection):
Who is responsible for the paycheck of artists like Sundarrajan? Is it the movie producer or MD? I read somewhere that the salary of MD includes the expenses for `his crew' and he in turn has to organize instrumentalists etc., with the exception of just the lyricist & the singers. And who pays the recording theatre's expenses for songs / BGM?
End-digression

And Bala Ramasamy, again since you seem to have some connections, can you please look at the "wish-list" that I posted yesterday and do something about the "action-plan"?

Thanks.

I might be mistaken but wasnt Sundarrajan there on the live show too conducting a song? This is sad. His voice is the one that starts off Potri paadadi poNNE in devar magan. I believe he has sung a few other songs too. He appeared in the TIS programme on SS music channel and came across as a very down-to-earth person.

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Digression
Bala Ramasamy, a question (since you seem to have some industry connection):
Who is responsible for the paycheck of artists like Sundarrajan? Is it the movie producer or MD? I read somewhere that the salary of MD includes the expenses for `his crew' and he in turn has to organize instrumentalists etc., with the exception of just the lyricist & the singers. And who pays the recording theatre's expenses for songs / BGM?
End-digression
Thanks.

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The Producer of the movie is responsible for the Paychecks of all the MD's crew. MD's Salary is exclusive of these expenses- like Payment for his crew aswelas recording theatre fees.

Vijayr,

Yes he is the same person who was seen on stage in the 'Live show'. A down to earth and charming personality who was the backbone of Raja's Team of singers - who organized, arranged and conducted Raja's notes to the T and was able to deliver those evergreen songs.

Sad to hear his sudden demise. And here too I find it difficult to digest that Raja was not of much great help to him when he was alive :cry:

One of my singer friend has the Harmonium of Mr.Sundararajan sold as a second hand piece a couple of years back. He treasures it like anything saying 'Raja itha thottu irukaaru'. Though it seems like 'Keladi kanmani' Air pillow :) Ithu madhiri neraya rasigargal Raja mela veri-anboda irukaanga.....aanaal Raaja?

Hmmm... Oru Manidha vaazhvin Mathippu 1 latcham Verum Kallin mathippu 27 latcham

Vaazhga Raaja valarga avar piravi payan.

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Originally Posted by rajasaranam

Hmmm... Oru Manidha vaazhvin Mathippu 1 latcham Verum Kallin mathippu 27 latcham

Vaazhga Raaja valarga avar piravi payan.

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Rajasaranam,

You are hurting the sentiments of lot of people with loose comments like this, once before you called Shiva as a ganja addict and now this. What is just a Stone for you might not be the same for another person. so refrain from making sweeping statements like this about very sensitive issues.

sats,

It need not hurt you too much If you are really in belief with something. If you are Halfway It surely will hurt. Iam sorry If it hurts too much :)

Rajasaranam

I dont want to start another confusion here, i take your smiley on a positive note. Half way into this into that pathi ellam i can talk to you offline.

Guys/Gals,

When there is an accusation, there is a simple simple simple rule.
The mediator has to listen to both sides before deciding who is right & who is wrong. Seems that many here immediately jump to conclusion on what ever things ppl post here out of the blue. Not forgetting many websites carry unsubstantiated articles & rubbish & such. Not forgetting some ppl can create a new ID here & can come in to pour out their venom on IR or just about anyone.

My advice
DON'T waste time until you hear from BOTH the horses' mouths.

Meanwhile, don't forget why you are in this forum in the 1st place....... juz carry on & enjoy listening to music.

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Originally Posted by elfmaniac85

Not forgetting some ppl can create a new ID here & can come in to pour out their venom on IR or just about anyone.

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Wondering Who this is :? created a new ID on October and This is your first post :wink:

Anyway Let me Give you all a song By Our Raaja which can be enjoyed any time anywhere :thumbsup:
http://rapidshare.de/files/7791019/M...rugil.mp3.html

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Originally Posted by rajasaranam

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Digression
Bala Ramasamy, a question (since you seem to have some industry connection):
Who is responsible for the paycheck of artists like Sundarrajan? Is it the movie producer or MD? I read somewhere that the salary of MD includes the expenses for `his crew' and he in turn has to organize instrumentalists etc., with the exception of just the lyricist & the singers. And who pays the recording theatre's expenses for songs / BGM?
End-digression
Thanks.

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The Producer of the movie is responsible for the Paychecks of all the MD's crew. MD's Salary is exclusive of these expenses- like Payment for his crew aswelas recording theatre fees.

Vijayr,

Yes he is the same person who was seen on stage in the 'Live show'. A down to earth and charming personality who was the backbone of Raja's Team of singers - who organized, arranged and conducted Raja's notes to the T and was able to deliver those evergreen songs.

Sad to hear his sudden demise. And here too I find it difficult to digest that Raja was not of much great help to him when he was alive :cry:

One of my singer friend has the Harmonium of Mr.Sundararajan sold as a second hand piece a couple of years back. He treasures it like anything saying 'Raja itha thottu irukaaru'. Though it seems like 'Keladi kanmani' Air pillow :) Ithu madhiri neraya rasigargal Raja mela veri-anboda irukaanga.....aanaal Raaja?

Hmmm... Oru Manidha vaazhvin Mathippu 1 latcham Verum Kallin mathippu 27 latcham

Vaazhga Raaja valarga avar piravi payan.

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RS,
When someone is being accused, let's give him the benefit of doubt till he's proven guilty....I am not questioning the veracity of Bala's stmts, All I am saying is, how can you take a completely unknown person's stmts as the truth and make stmts like "oru manidhanin vAzhvu 1 L kallin mathippu 27L"....I've heard from ppl like sundararajan himself and viji manuel about Raja's nature, and they were happy being with Raja, and they have no reasons to lie...If i were you, i wud wait till every relevant info is avbl before making any judgement.

I've been ignoring the posts of ppl who have not been involved in the TiS project in any capacity (excep that they have "donated" some money - the term isn't valid anymore) but were jumping at every oppurtunity to say "i"ve heard Raja is this...I've read in some tabloid Raja is that" etc....However, you were the person who opposed mr. Kiru's reaction about Raja's music, and now you've done almost the same thing.