yes it's a 1st post but no need to worry....it doesn't carry venom 8-)Quote:
Wondering Who this is :? created a new ID on October and This is your first post :wink:
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yes it's a 1st post but no need to worry....it doesn't carry venom 8-)Quote:
Wondering Who this is :? created a new ID on October and This is your first post :wink:
Shankar,
where in I've reacted the same way as Kiru???. Iam Still listening to Raaja and Raaja Alone. none Can replace him in that aspect. As far my other comments - ignore them as a mis-informed soul's blabberings. There are many people including HCIRF's like my friend who i mentioned in the earlier post have close associations with filmdom and Comes telling me tales about IR which cannot be ignored altogether.
Ellathukkum Proof irukka Proof irukkannu Kaettuttu irukka mudiyadhu. We come to analyse and deduce somethings with available knowledge and form an opinion. But by your analogy I should also Believe JJ is clean - no proofs, court has acquited her. So let us all celebrate JJ for being the porkalam kanda puratchi thalaivi. Can you agree??? I can't .
In case of IR there are clear prima facie Evidences pointing fingers at him. Though hard to digest somethings I have heard about IR are bitter. I'll be the happiest person If proven wrong.
BTW I stopped many pages back talking about TIS issue for I came to know- that Iam prejudiced and have formed a definite opinion about IR. And also because the parties concerened TM-TISK are never going to come out in open to challenge IR.
This Late.Sundararajan's Issue just irked me again :huh:
Iam finding fun in happily Digging out Some Rare songs of Raja and my latest addition is the one I've given the link for.
Hope you and others enjoy that Song as always. :)
But your second post does :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by elfmaniac85
Iam afraid Some body helppppppppp..............
guys..guys hold on a sec..I just told I feel sad to pick a IR cd and play that is all. I never said I will not listen to IR again. My whole music collection revolves around the music of this man..I have lots of CDs and LPs..My stereo system on which I have spent a good amount of money (atleast for me) is meant mainly to listen to IR collection.
Anyways, I am with rajasaranam on this retirement benefit for an ex-employee. Man..1L is a pittance these days..my dad who used to refer to 1 lakh as 1 rooba now uses that term for 1 crore :-)..
My stance is very similar to that of rajasaranam..my vociferous response is a culmination of lots of things I have heard over the years..This TIS thing was just the last straw. Also, you will see rajdes, rajasaranam...using the term 'prima facie' ..that term pretty much summarizes it.
If you have noticed my posts, I always mention I am a fan of the music of IR ..not IR fan. I even have pointed some case of inspiration much before than anybody else here (for eg. Dalapathi song 1st interlude is a pure Mahler inspiration)But I have also defended some non-musical actions of IR, because I felt that is one way of running your career. I shouldn't have done that too in hindsight. I should have just stuck to analysing and appreciating his music, which I still think is much superior to other MDs music in India in musicality/technicality and emotion. I would say this music collection is something that would be difficult for me to replace with something else.
RS, You may be a fan or not a fan of IR's music. That is fine.
But it doesn't warrant you to cast aspersion on a person's character.
Saying some cliched statements like "I have sources in film field who said blah blah about IR" . Atleast Iam not going to buy such loose remarks.Even I have sources who tell a different story . So?
This free for all mudslinging is going too far. Did IR hold a pistol on Sunderrajan's head to stay put with him? Let us desist from speculating about film field dynamics.
Ellarum ore kuttaiyil ooriya mattaigal be it IR or ARR or Kamal or Rajini.
//Dig
Kiru , idhu thaan saakkunnu ungaLoda IR collectionai naan suttudalaamna nenaichen . En aasaila maNNaa? :((
RS,
Pls check your PM...
>>>Ellarum ore kuttaiyil ooriya mattaigal be it IR or ARR or Kamal or Rajini.
Why drag ARR here??? Can't any discussion on IR be with out ARR???. mention of ARR in your post clearly shows how psycologically are you disturbed by all the posts on IR...
Your post mentioning ARR with few others was to convey that IR is no different from these people. Just because IR is receiving brick bats now, you should not pull other names to cussion IR.
IN what way is ARR similar to IR in terms of not supporting his subordinate. If you know any secret or insde story, I would like to here that.
Well come on...make it public with authentic references or leads.
Summa...thevai illama...do not drag an other gentleman's man...in that case no human being is perfec...why single out only these three..
What is so sacrosanct about ARR? Isn't he from filmdom too? I was just quoting names of those who have crazy fans . What do you or me know about ARR or Kamal or Rajini or IR apart from their work ?
That old man Mr.Sundararajan was speaking in the TIS promo in SS Music.
Anyone who saw him on that programme wouldn't suspect anything like he was wounded by IR etc..A section of media has been always bashing IR..so I suspect these kind of news to be the creation of these media..
I have heard that actor Ramki, Ramarajan etc were taken care or provided financial assistance by IR, when they suffered losses..So I cannot think that IR is a hard minded genius who is blind folded to anything else than music. If so, you will not see such a large number of people in the industry behind him even after years of his entry..If IR is so cruel, how can people still work for him for more than 20 years in his orchestra.., when there are so many options available in the field today..?
>>>What is so sacrosanct about ARR?
Not knowing what is so sacrosant about ARR doesn't mean that he does not have such a quality. We cannot generalise people on filmdom. In that case Kamal is awomeniser, is IR to a womeniser or if I say so will you all spare me??
See, there is a very delicate discussion going on t=in this IR treads, everybody is watching many are from opposite camp too. I myself is an ARR fan and I did not hide that...but still neither I not any of AR did not come and create trouble here even though the situation is ripe. In such a delicate situation if you pass such comments then it might ignite fire some where and once again a nasty fight might begin as the one happend years before when Baba was released...only thing is this time IR thread will be the victim. what I say is just a plain talk of facts by a fan, of good music ,who really enjoys the peace between the two sides.
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by raja_fan
raja_fan,Quote:
Originally Posted by raja_fan
I too know about this. Even in some Kumudham Issue Ramarajan mentioned that IR helped him Monetarily when He was in financial struggle. And there are many more Cases where we find IR never caring about money and doing his work, helping others. But definitely there are some stray cases where IR seems to be cunning, money minded etc.,
IR seems to be a perfect split person wherein He goes to the extreme of magnanimity in some cases and in other cases he keeps himself shut. He is a person who does things as his mood permits. He is really a 'Puriyatha Puthir' :oops: .
As a fan I just want him to be good at all times and I dont want to see any blackmarks on the white board :)
deleted
Dig-
zz if you have serious comprehension problem , I cannot help it. Now what is so blasphemous a'out my teaming ARR with other filmy people like Kamal? Have I indulged in any personal attack on your idol?
"Not knowing what is so sacrosant about ARR doesn't mean that he does not have such a quality." - Does it matter to me even if he has? Why should I know a'out IR's or ARR's out of music activities? I care two hoods a'out ARR's or IR's spirituality or lack of it for that matter.
"We cannot generalise people on filmdom. In that case Kamal is awomeniser"
- Now are u a representative of filmdom? it is this kind of yellow journalism discussion that I and many others are against atleast in TFMPage.
Few months back I mentioned some of the IR fanatics are taking IR to the level of God. Some people trashed me out for saying something like that.
Look.... rajasaranam is using Capital "H" when referring IR. These people are not fans, they are devotees of IR.
May IR bless you!!!
I notice that this thread has hit the "100" page mark in this HUB! :thumbsup:
YIA!!
'May IR bless you!!!'
dear genesis,
HE has been blessing us with HIS immortal music for three decades!! There is more to come from HIM!!!
You are the one who is disturbed here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by zz
I am with kiru and rajasaranam on most of the points raised. Though not all of their points, but the general direction of their views. Some of our longtime friends like cry_sandiego, rajdes and others repeatedly stressed the "innocent-until-proven-guilty clause". Nobody accused him of crime. But our postings are only expressing our growing disillusionment with him.
rajdes,
its not as if we were waiting for an opportunity to become turncoats and pounce on IR. Consider what all his fans have done for him. Can you imagine a legendary artist millions of his works were sold, has two of his offspring actively in the involved in the industry and yet getting his fans to raise funds for his project? Do you think any other artist in the world would have such a fan club that even borders on servitude? Even when the artist is putting barely 10% of his heart into his work for over a decade? Honestly, if someone like MSV(I am not taking ARR as he wont even think of such a funding mechanism) had embarked on a similar project, would it have got such an enthusiastic response and eagerness to move all mountains and achieve the aim?
There is only so much IR fans can take. They have put heart and soul in this project, its conception, fundraising, distribution and what not. When IR remains cold and indifferent in the end, certain things need to be re-evaluated.
On another occasion you say that the press seeking out IR to make their mags sell. There are far more unscrupulous ways to make their ways sell, interviewing IR was just one of the many wholesome ways. In most of his interviews(I'm not getting the link now), IR presents himself at a stratospheric level and talks condescendingly. It may not sound condescending to his devotees but nobody can deny the philosophical musings instead of plainspeak he indulges in. Just like some interviews like Adoor Gopalakrishnan who badmouth commercial cinema followers and even called the audience "too stupid" to understand him!
It is precisely this which turns us off.
We are just thinking aloud. There is no need for you to get alarmed and jump to IR's defence or try and correct our pattern of thought. All said and done, our musical preferences are not going to change, only want to focus on what IR does best. :) But we are voicing very serious concerns that if IR does not change his outlook to the media and the general public, TiS will be his last magnum opus and throughout history, it will be remembered with a tinge of notoriety.
No...Sundarrajan was there because he loved IR's music and What was got in return is the question raised here. Neither IR held a pistol over my head to be his fan. Iam his fan because i love his music And that doesnt mean I can't have any Critisicism about him atall.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
Athu sari Pora pokkula Potham podhuvaa 'Ellam Orae kuttaiyila oorna mattaingathan' ndra unga vimarsanam Epdi ungalukku vanathula irunthu asariri madhiri vanthatha illa kelvipattadha vachu solreengala.
Neenga sonnatha thiruppi pottu paarunga unmai vilangum... Cinema industry suthammanathu angu yaarum karai padiyathavargal...namakku atha pathi vimarsanam panna urimai illa yaenna naama thappa nenachukittu irukira vishayangal ellamae kelvipattathuthan. :twisted:
<Neither IR held a pistol over my head to be his fan. Iam his fan because i love his music And that doesnt mean I can't have any Critisicism about him atall. >
Exactly.. You love his music and so your criticisms should stop with his music... not about him or about his business/personal affairs.. If it goes at this rate, we will be talking about " Is IR paying his taxes promptly, is he paying his servants at the federal minimum rate etc etc..". None of our business..
let's stop with his music.. Our relationship with IR is only music. if any of us have other relationship ( personal, business etc..) this is not the right forum and is not professional as well ..
Your footnote should probably be modificed as " Music starts and ends with Raja ... and our discussions should start and end with his music :-))
Cheers
MSK
Well said cry sandiego. The pseudofans of ilayaraja are having a field day with accusations flying everywhere.
Remember one thing , it is easy to make an allegation of any sort against anybody. The key thing is anybody is innocent till proved guilty.
How will rajasaranam feel if everybody in this forum say that he has raped somebody or mudered somebody. i will just treat it as an accusation and it for the accuser to prove him guilty if he wants. Just because 100 or 1000 people say a thing repeatedly doesnt make it a truth.
I think this forum should be closed and we should confine ourselves to discuss music. All the problems start when people stopped being just fans and wanted to be involved more with the person himself. So lets back off and just discuss the music
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_sandiego
Sorry..can't have it whatever way you want.. Rs1.4 crores of public money has been spent. Many of it raised through readers of this forum. If at the end people who raised the money and the artist are involved in a disagreement, the public who paid the money would really like to know what is going on.
* said it really well..I couldn't have said it better. No point in trying to silence/hush up any critics.
Dear Kiru,
I am not sure if you are going to unravel a 1.4 crore scam with discussions in a public forum.. Sorry I can't help laugh !! if i were this interested in solving this scam I would be spending my time in talking to a Legal/copyrights expert ..
And why do think I am trying to hush up this matter.. no benefit to me. I could care less if IR or someone else whose art i like/love is convicted of murder/scandal tomorrow !! I am a fan of his music not him.
I guess you said u have started a public groups for this specific issue and so you can discuss to your heart's content in that forum and bring the truth to the light.. another suggestion is to start another thread with an appropriate title like " who is the black sheep " etc..
Looks like you still can't get over this Huh ?
Cheers
MSK
MSK,
I am not sure I am making much progress with you, in communicating my stance. I will let my post stand for the benefit of others who may care. Meanwhile, if you are my friend, you would please leave that sarcasm and ridicule out of your posts.
If cry_sandiego/MSK really bothers only about IR's music and doesnt care whether IR is a criminal or a saint, he wouldnt be coming to this discussion repeatedly nor would he try to divert attention or hush up the matter. His claims to the contrary notwithstanding, obviously he is bothered that the person on whom he has invested such a lot of time/money has his ethics being questioned. Its very evident. I would like to see MSK posting the same objections when some ppl here post links to news items that say IR donated something here or did some good deed or got his daughter married off etc.. Because thats his private life too. But, no objections will be posted then. When this same thread was used for used mainly for fund mobilisation(and not music discussion) 1 year back I didnt see MSK posting his objection that only music should be discussed.
Its OK to talk or discuss about IR's private life in detail as long as it portrays IR in good light. The moment anyone hints at anything negative its time to stick "only to the music" and its "none of our business". Funny. And in this case, its not entirely IR's private life thats being talked about either. Some of the fans and others have been affected too. This is more connected to IR's profession than his private life. Even rajasaranam, for being the hardcore IR devotee he is , is more objective it seems.
Sorry Kiru If you felt that way ! Did not mean to .. Pls accept my apology.
Cheers
MSK
Vijay, point taken.. Whats a little disturbing is that some good IR fans have taken the "Guilty until proven innocent" stance. I guess until there is a real investigation, no one is going to know the truth.
My opinion is that people here are getting carried away when they start accusing of Rs. 1.4 crore scam etc.
As a donator, my perspective is this. When I contributed money I contributed to IR for making of Thiruvasagam. If the same TM or TIS wopuld have made a similar request with any other composer, I wouldnt have donated. For me TM or TIS was just a medium for channeling my contribution to IR. I had no expectations or no interest in whether TM or TIS-US was going to be a pert copyright owners of the same. Those things were immaterial in terms of my donation. There were no claims or pormises that were made on that behalf to say the copyrights to TM was basis of donations - it was definitely not the basis of my donation.
Even the current accusations against IR no one has made a complaint that the donatioons that were collected was not used for the making of Thiruvasagam and was misappropriated by IR. As a donatee, I gave money towards making of TIS and Thirvasagam was composed and met all my expectations. Therefore, I do not suscribe to the hysterical accusations of Rs. 1.4 crore scam etc.
I feel for those who took a personal loan to donate to this cause and have a financial fall out and would like to help them personally. But as a ratiopnal donatee, I do not ascribe to all these wild accusations.
I am quite surprised and shocked to read all the disturbing posts made here. Though I did not donate to TM or TIS-USA personally, I bought some CDs to gift it to friends as requested. I am personally happy with the end product. However to learn that so much of murky dealings and arm twisting (bordering on the level of skull duggery) is involved with such a good project is disturbing to me. My wish would be for Ilaiyaraaja to come out open and clean in this matter and for the fruitful combination of TM-TISUSA and IR to continue.
Having said that , I know that after all such bad feelings and rumblings, it will never happen and IR has let go of one more good partnership slip by his hands.
As far as TIS-USA is concerned, they already know that their options are to break even by selling whatever they have got and even the well meaning Father cannot be of much help to them. That alone can explain why they are going silent after the initial afterburst. Maligning IR's image further by an uncomfortable expose' can only impact the chances of selling their stock further. In fact with so much of USA Tamil audience being net-savvy, further reporting of this might have already caused enough damages by dwindling the number of potential IR fans who would find it difficult to buy this album due to the moral question.
As far as the Father is concerned, his cause of concern seemed from the letters and earlier posts, the return on Investment from Welgate , which has come only in a trickle. I dont quite know if he would go home happy if TM gets back its ROI plus profits even if TIS-USA are looking down the barrel.
The only person who seems to be quite happy with the whole deal seems to be Ilaiyaraaja who with the successful stage show watchied crazily by one and all must be feeling that he needs no more birth!!! If he thinks that he can stonewall any criticism with silence, then how deceived he must be as it is the dialogue with conscience that is the most difficult and uncomfortable to hold than a press conference to apologize(as Clinton,Janet Jackson, Nixon have shown already).
jaiganes,
Long time no see???
Yes,
The silence is indeed disturbing. I heard even more disturbing things related to Sundararajan's final days w.r.t IR's help (or the lack of it) but i don't know how accurate it is. Like Father Jegath wrote, truth has the capacity to speak for itself, in time and forever.
MSK .its allright. You probably did not mean it in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_sandiego
As they say, the silence is deafening ...Quote:
Originally Posted by alwarpet_andavan
I was busy both on personal and professional front tahts why. I didn't expect to come back to the hub and see such disturbing developments. I would love to immerse in music of IR alone and forget all these things happening around. However, that would be one form of escapism. Unfortunately I am not in a position to donate in a huge way or buy more albums to support TIS-USA also. So all I can hope to see is IR repenting for letting down the people who collaborated with him in this monumental project.Quote:
Originally Posted by alwarpet_andavan
However there is a clear lesson for TM and TIS-USA also in this chain of unfortunate incidents. This is one way how NOT to approach a project involving "money". Never let your passion override your prudence. It is a good lesson. All the statements like "Piravi payan" etc., are great motivational statements that cannot be incorporated in a business plan objective.
Now we understand why ARR aligned himself with SONY. so that he wouldn't have to bother about publicity, selling canvassing etc., and focus just on the quality of the sound.
I am just an observer of this forum all along and I am only involved as an IR fan and someone who had to wait for ages to get hold of my copies of TiS here in Singapore. From the very beginning it has been very clear and obvious that whoever took charge of the production work, whether it was TM or TiS-USA, they have been totally incapable of handling such a monumental project! IR as a composer has done his job to the extreme of class and we all know that after listening to the end product. No one stopped these people claiming to be behind this project from marketing the project well and get proper professional support like getting Sony or Saregama into the picture. Not at all. They were sitting on it the whole duration and regardless of so much comments and suggestions from so many hubbers, they were keeping it all within closed doors as if to claim ownership or out of fear of loosing recognition.
TISK with his by now irritating YIA! signoffs is one main culprit as I have observed. In my opinion this project was very unprofessionally handled from the day they started collecting funds, in the form of lack of transparency. I was simply afraid to donate as I was not confident about these people behind it, whether it was TM or TiS-USA.
From the stage of donations, somehow the whole thing shifted to people with loans etc involved. If they have come in with loans then of course they have took a business decision and looking for a lucrative returns! Why are these folks crying foul now in a public forum anyway?
For such a pathetic work done, they are expecting to gain maximum profit from this project? That's amazing. The project got all the publicity through free advertisements from all the press and media which was not at all the work of any of these people supposed to be behind the project. When I spoke to Mohd Ali and Rafi from Oli 96.8, I was surprised that they were not even aware of this project weeks after it had been launched. I only managed to get hold of my copy through my uncle who visited Chennai. Does any one there know when the actual stock arrived in Singapore!!!?
Furthermore there has been so much of information and details missing from the public's knowledge and now they are expecting us to believe that some parties are suffering loses! How can people who donated care about loses? If it is not donations then, please stop pretending like noblemen who have come into this project for selfless reasons.
IR's job is to create music and he has done his part well. When people around him like Jageth and gang being so incompetent in handling this project failed badly, they want to point pointless fingers at IR and make various accusations! Pathetic truly.
puriya vendiyavangalukku purinja sari.... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sats
anaa puriyatha maathiri nadipaanga. adhuthaan vedikkai.... :lol: :lol:
TISK ,Fr.Jegath ,Sridhar Seetharaman ,SOcrates etc ...are no special people .They are just ordinary people like us .I don't think they ever went to this project for earning profits .Nobody will take aloan for $40,000 for profits !!!
TIS was sufficently publisiced .Only due to this ,it sold XX,XXX cassets and CDs in India .Agreed ,there were some slack in that ,but that was due to in sufficent man power .When we stop our efforts at tfmpage.com ,who will join hands with TISK and Fr.Jegath for publicity ? Thankfully Illayraaja yahoogroups were there to help ,though the actual management and control was done by few peopel only .I feel TIS got more publicity than allo fthe 2004-2005 IR albums put together.Secondly an effort like this should not be too much commercialised - you have to inform people abt this but you should'nt commercialise in a way similar to a PEPSI or COKE .You simply should not .Its thiruvasagam!
One more thing that is forgot is that teh distribution is through WelGate and they haven't made any efforts to publisice this monumental piece.This is the first time that a Distributor does not spend any effort in this .If some body has'nt got a CD at the right time ,the blame goes to Wel Gate .Its 'NOt Well " mr .Gate !!!
TISK or Fr.jegath never said they could not earn profits.If they could not get back their loans due to the failure of TIS then its different.But the point is TIS is fairly successfull and yet our friends did not get back the money .The reason stated is Raaja's being adamant in CD RIghts /Distribution etc .
I still don't belive Raaja would have cheated for money - but he might have been very adamant in his own beliefs which has caused discomfort for so many people .
Hey man,welcome back :D Was wondering what happened to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
1. MarriageQuote:
Hey man,welcome back Was wondering what happened to you?
2. More work
3. Future fatherhood
4. Car
In the order it happened.
:D :D :D
BTW How are you doing?
Ramki!! I badly want to feel the same way. However, the fundamental aim is to raise money for some future work. And raising money = making profits by selling the holy thiruvasagam . not by making thiruvasagam and keeping quiet. correct me if I am wrong. :D