Evolution of Saivaism and it's development in Tamil Nadu

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Originally Posted by Uppuma

Purananuru -166 says

Nandru aintha NinimirSadai
Muthumuthalvan Vaipoka
Thondru Purintha Virirandin
Arunarntha Oru MuthuNool PURAM 166: 1-4

This is the reference to God Siva giving Vedas - Rig,Yajur, Sama and Athrva to Munivarkal and this is also confirmed by Tholkappiyam and Tirukural

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Uppuma, you don't understand Sangam Tamil, do you! Why do you misinterpret the four lines. Why did you not post the lines in Tamil - afraid readers may know the meaning clearly? You are trying to mislead. Ok -The verse in Tamil Script,
¿ýÈ¡öó¾ ¿£û¿¢Á¢÷º¨¼
ÓÐÓ¾øÅý Å¡ö§À¡¸¡Ð,
´ýÚÒÃ¢ó¾ ®Ã¢ÃñÊý,
¬Ú½÷ó¾ ´ÕÓÐáø
Where is these lines are the names of the Four sanskritic vedas - the rig, sama, yajur and atharvan mentioned - as you claimed. The poet clearly talk about "oru muthu nool" - one ancient book. That exposed your lies - and stop your lies about Tholkappiyam and Thirukkural as well. Nothing of the vedas there!.

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and I quote Kalithogai for easy reference.
Aru ari Anthanarku Arumarai Pala Pagarnthu Kali 1:1

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So?? Where is Rig in here?

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The ancient Tamil King was called PalYagasalai MuthuKudumi and on him the Sangam Song is

Velviyil Kadavul Aruththinai! Kelvi
Vuyarnilai Vulagathu Iyer Inpuruthinai!.... Pathrirrupattu 70:12,13.

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How ancient was the king? Any dates? Can YOu please explain the meaning of the Pathirrupathu Song.. Who is that 'velviyil kadavul'? The Third Sangam Period began after Tholkappiam - and contined till === When?? do you know, Mr Uppuma?

The Sangam Period overlapped the Bhakti period .. Some Sanga Pulavars lived after Thirungana Sambandar too. So?? If Sambandar talks of Velvi -- why shouldn't Sanga Pulavars - as a narration of what they witnessesed then!

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Natpe, Every Objective Researcher who can really understand Tamil clearly confirms all this are referring to Vedas and even the name Sama Veda is named in one of the Sangam Songs

Hence let us ignore meaningless postings and constrate on what Sangam Lit. tells on evolution of Sivaniyam in Tamilnadu.

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There is very little religion you can extract from Sangam Literature - mostly heroic and love themes only. Keep trying but stop lying!

Anbulla Vaasaharkale,

Please also read through my thread titled "The evolution of Siva Agamams in Tamil Nadu" for more informations on the Agamas, appearing in this same Forum Hub screen.

Friends,

I quote back my original from Paripadal-

Aathi anthanan Arinthu pariKoluva
VETHA Mapun Vaiyather Vurnthu
Naga Nana Malai Villaga
Muvagai Areil Orazhal Ambin Muliya
Mathira Mazhalveithu Amarar Velvi
Bagam Vunda PAingat Parppan 5:22-27KaduvaliVeiinar

Natpe- We have MR.Idiyappam who always mistreats and misinterprets Tamil Literaure and its contact with Sanskrit Vedas- which are root of Indian Civilisation. Indian Vedic- Indic.

Now let us see Aathi Anthanan; translate it it is First Brahmin, and I on the Basis of Vedic Tradtion called it Brahma.

Amarar Bagam Vunda Paingat Parppan- Brahmin who eats Devas Yagna part, and I translated it as Siva.

The name Siva, Vishnu, and if my rememberance is riight - the very names does not occur once even in Sangam Lit.

Now Idiayppam has no problem in applying to Brahma and Siva, but when Veda is referred he Comes with Meaningless Postings.

Mr.Idiyappam has been answered several times by PAVANAR and other Quotes, but he spoils each thread, I request Moderators should look.

Uppuma.

Is solomon active again?

Last post of solomon occured on 24.october!
Last post of Anchaneya on 24. october!

Uppuma joined the hub on 24. october! And talks like Solomon! Why?

[quote="Uppuma"]Friends,
I quote back my original from Paripadal-

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Aathi anthanan Arinthu pariKoluva
VETHA Mapun Vaiyather Vurnthu
Naga Nana Malai Villaga
Muvagai Areil Orazhal Ambin Muliya
Mathira Mazhalveithu Amarar Velvi
Bagam Vunda PAingat Parppan 5:22-27KaduvaliVeiinar

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Before you start your round-the-bush-beating, Mr Uppuma (solomon), you should first post some details of the poet - when did he live? I have said many times that the Sangam period overlapped the bakti (a far as the Sangam Literatures are dated). Now would you please give a date for the poet, Mr KaduvaliVeiinar.

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Natpe- We have MR.Idiyappam who always mistreats and misinterprets Tamil Literaure and its contact with Sanskrit Vedas- which are root of Indian Civilisation. Indian Vedic- Indic.

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Root of Indian civilisation???? Then what happened???

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Now let us see Aathi Anthanan; translate it it is First Brahmin, and I on the Basis of Vedic Tradtion called it Brahma.
Amarar Bagam Vunda Paingat Parppan- Brahmin who eats Devas Yagna part, and I translated it as Siva.

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Great - though your translation is wrong and grossly misleading!

A poet sitting down there, looking are the Parppans (Brahmins, as you say) eating Devas roasted in their Yagna Fire, writes the story. So??? So what now?

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The name Siva, Vishnu, and if my rememberance is riight - the very names does not occur once even in Sangam Lit.

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Your 'rememberance' is ok you think?? Take a look again!

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Now Idiayppam has no problem in applying to Brahma and Siva, but when Veda is referred he Comes with Meaningless Postings.

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I don't understand. Applying what to Brahma and Siva? Nilagiri Thailam? Siva have rheumatic problems? Or Brahma?

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Mr.Idiyappam has been answered several times by PAVANAR and other Quotes, but he spoils each thread, I request Moderators should look.

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Yes, and Mr Idiyappam always catches all the flaws in your proofs.

Uppuma wrote : Now let us see Aathi Anthanan; translate it it is First Brahmin, and I on the Basis of Vedic Tradtion called it Brahma.

hey Uppuma if brahma is a brahmin, what is siva/vishnu and the other gods of hindu pantheon. Please elaborate more on the caste system among the gods !

Friends,

Most of you have missed the latest Research Truths.

Dr.M.Deivanayagam from Pavanar School, has in Doctoral Thesis on "Comparitive study if Tirukural, Bible and SaivaSidhantham"
has clearly extablished, that Saivam and Vaishnavam are a branch of Christianity; developed from the Missionary work of Apostle Saint. Thomas disciple of Our Lord- Jesus. Tiruvalluvar wrote Kural from Bible, and Saivam developed as an Indian form of Christianity.

I would provide various links in my next postings.

PaulThomas

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Originally Posted by paulthomas

Friends,

Most of you have missed the latest Research Truths.

Dr.M.Deivanayagam from Pavanar School, has in Doctoral Thesis on "Comparitive study if Tirukural, Bible and SaivaSidhantham"
has clearly extablished, that Saivam and Vaishnavam are a branch of Christianity; developed from the Missionary work of Apostle Saint. Thomas disciple of Our Lord- Jesus. Tiruvalluvar wrote Kural from Bible, and Saivam developed as an Indian form of Christianity.

I would provide various links in my next postings.

PaulThomas

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Solomon, who is this Pavanar school Doctor?
Wasn't that guy from Universitato di Vaticano?

hey Solomom, you are looking at a non existant enemy to blame for the sorry state of hindus. Fanning passions with anti non hindu religions would not convince us that they are the enemies, to be frank atleast they have given dignity for some of our masses. The conversions work just because certain self appointed authorities in hinduism discriminate, and worship crap that praises such inhuman practices, thereby subjucated the masses. Sorry buddy, with education and common sense the masses are no more accepting you authority and crap litreature as a citadel of knowledge(If you cannot dazzle with your brilliance, just baffle with bullshit!). Your days are gone buddy, call it kalli yug and go to vanavasam, you might find lesser evolved living things willing to be dominated by vedic crap.

Friends,

We all want to hear or read and only, to their LIKINGS, and any Truth found after Great Effort and Spending of Huge Money

Friends,

We all want to hear or read and only, to their LIKINGS, and any Truth found after Great Effort and Spending of Huge Money, must be respected well.

For A Millennium of years we have been living under illusions, by proper interpretations of Words,applying proper Linguistics and different interpretations than what was originally been done for 1000 odd years, Thani Tamil Movement leaders brought some revolutionary ideas. Dr.Deivanayagam with the help of Christian Church funding did a Marvelous job and Proved that Saivaism, Vaishnavism are all the Products of Movement came after Tirukural, And Tirukural was written by ThiruValluvar, who received the teachings of Our Lord Jesus, from Saint.Thomas, the Apostle, who came to India, landed in KERALA’s Kodungallore or Cranganore, spent most time establishing churches in Chera Nadu, and later came To Thondainadu, Chennai’s Mylapur and died here.

The very names “ Siva, Vishunu” or God having wife Children are Alien to Tamils, and does not exist in Sangam Lit., and the Idea of Trinity- FATHER, Son and Holy Spirit” became- Siva-Muruga-Parvathi and so on.

Dr.Deivanayagam’s book were all released by Dravidian Scholars and Politicians and I have given from Foreword by Pavanar School- Panmozhi Pulavar APPAdurai in Tirukural Forum.

AS PulavarDr.M.Deivanayagam developed his Truths on Saivaism, his daughter, Dr. D.Deivakala, has further researched and established Vaishnavam as Bi-product of SaintThomas Teaching of Bible to Tiruvalluvar.

Famous Tamil website- Geocities/Athens has beautiful article on this, and the link is : http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Itha...rthirteen.html.

And Prof. M.M.Ninar has developed on Deivanayagam and his articles can be seen from together..http://www.acns.com/~mm9n/hind/

Pulavar Deivanayagam’s Articles are available at
www. geocities/Dravidian_religion
and also www/geocities/appiusforum etc.,

Please let us all be proud that All Saivates or Vaishnavites all Worship The True God, i.e., Our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Let us not envy truths, though it would be difficult in the first attempt to accept.

PaulThomas