Reservation system

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Originally Posted by sreeramtcs

But consider the case of a person who has got this seat based on reservation with ranking much over 1000. That guy wont know the value of this college.

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How many of us realize that the person ranked 1000, has come all this way after 1000s of years.
Before 1000 yrs he was not even considered human enough to read books, let alone take exams. If we fail to appreciate those efforts and reward, then we will have a society where a small percentage is highly educated and the huge under developed percentage serves that small group.

Also we can't carry on this forever. A cut of point has to be set and we have to stop the reservation system when the target is achieved. The problem here is no one knows what the target is, even if by chance someone identifies the target then, working towards the target effectively is even harder..................

sreeramtcs ,
I am interested in knowing which state has only one govt engg college. I am disheartened to know that even after all this development and top notch companies head hunting our bright students, we have such a plight. :(

Ya I accept that these people have been kept down for years. But reservation is not the solution. Especially in professional education. Many people like me have joining in professional colleges as their life aim but how can they just be prevented because their great grand fathers ill-treated people from other caste. Why should v suffer because of their mistake.
Dsath I like the way you mentioned about target. The target can be found by making a survey of people who have been actually benefited from reservation for the first time. What we will find at the end of survey is only people who are already gained a lot out of reservation keep gaining more. Those are people who can afford high quality education and high class life style yet keep enjoying reservation. I will explain this with an example, my friend is SC by birth, his dad is customs officer a post which he got by reservation and now his dad earns in all ways. This friend of mine is never short of money, studied in a good school and finally was never denied anything in life because of his SC birth, still he couldn’t rank well in the state exam but found a seat in engineering college mainly because of his birth as SC. Now his son will also enjoy this comfort again. Does this what we want by reservation?
Coming to what Narayan Murthy of Infosys said about reservation, he can opt for reservation in his company if at he has ever denied a place for a person in his company just because he was a SC or ST by birth.
When we talk about reservation we only talk about people of SC or ST caste getting job or professional education quite easily. But there are bit more that government offers in the name of reservation. The year duration for an SC or ST to get promoted from one post to other is very less for an SC or ST. I will explain this with an example. My mom and another women (SC birth) joined government as a lower division clerk. Now my mom had only 3 promotions in her overall career of about 30 years. But the other women had about 10 promotions. The duration between each promotion for my mom is 10 years while for the other is 3 years. What a difference. Also there is no need for any qualification exam for SC/ST people to get promoted. Can anyone here explain the need for such relaxation in promotions?

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

That was the infamous "Kulak kalvi thittam". That failed because even if one wants to be a collector, he has to learn pot making if his father is a potter. What I am telling is that the potter, if he finds that there is nobody after him doing a traditional art or craft, shall be helped by the government to pass on the craft to someone else who is interested, not compulsorily to his son or daughter. I guess there is a subtle difference.

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JG, I understand your point and I am for it. Any way - what you have suggested has a clear and not a subtle difference from Rajaji's most infamous "kulakalvi thittam" - which I feel was initiated with the motive of suppressing the margninalised for ever.

BTW, How are you doing?

hi Roshan! I am doing fine. I am expecting the day when my wife will give birth to our child.

Points made by Sreeramtcs are pretty hard as well. I can understand the genuine anger and frustration. Reservation in quality education in quality educational institution is a must in pre university period. i.e., if anyone has observed the status of govt owned schools run by poor quality teachers, I can say for sure that less than 5% of the out put of those schools will be of good quality. With a poor setup like that , if the government tries to push people into IIT, IIM and in competitive companies like Infy and IBM, get it from me, the result will be a disaster. The government instead of upgrading the educational quality at the lower level (where an individual's potential is shaped, where the societal bias is destroyed and where the talents are shaped), is trying to push the buck to private companies and IITs, and IIMs. This is wrong.
first -strengthen the quality of education - infrastructure wise and delivery wise(quality of teaching staff, their motivation levels by giving a good salary).
second - make sure that this education is available even in the remote corner of this vast country at the same quality.
third - Admit more downtrodden children into schools and punish anyone obstructing a child's education .
fourth - Provide scholarships for students from downtrodden society to improve their weak areas.
fifth - Change the grading system to one that is encouraging but not highly pressurizing at the lower levels and keep stiffer grading later to raise the bar - this is to reduce school drop outs.
sixth - After highschool - a talent exam to ascertain the good and weak areas of the student
seventh - Based on the talent map of each student - award subsidized education opportunities .
eighth - Take your hands off from the individual now as he/she is self confident and needs to body to support him/her.

seventh and eighth points are an inspiration from Issac Asimov's short stories.

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

hi Roshan! I am doing fine. I am expecting the day when my wife will give birth to our child.

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Wow!!! That's something great to hear. All the best to you and your wife :)

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

, if the government tries to push people into IIT, IIM and in competitive companies like Infy and IBM, get it from me, the result will be a disaster.

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jaiganes: You got it wrong about IBM. IBM was a pioneer in Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action programs initiating them in the early fifties when the south in the US had segregation policy. Here is a link for you. Read the section on employment data. It was no disaster for IBM.

http://www-306.ibm.com/employment/us...se/50/tc.shtml

Read the section on employment data to see how far the minorities have progressed in IBM. In fact, any manager violating the policy would severely punished with removal from management and even summary dismissal.
I wonder why those hubbers who live in the US don't say anything about what corporations here do ! :)

rajraj!
i work in IBM. I meant it in the Indian context. It is not as simple as in USA where you had only one oppressed section of people.

Jaiganes, i accept ur point, education in rural sectors have to be improved. And it can be done only by providing very high motivation.
My own sister was recruited in government as a teacher for class 6 to 10th. There is a rule in government every new joinee should do at least 3 years of rural service. So everyone who got job along with my sister have been posted to villages as their first appointment. But now very few of them still work in their allocated villages. Most of them used recommendations to get transfer within few months. But my sister accepted the offer and she still works in the same village even after 3 years of completion. She has worked hard and has succeeded in getting 100% result every year. According to her the most of the students are very intelligent and can even repeat the same sentence that my sister said in the class when asked questions. But what they lack is basics of English grammar. The teachers who have thought them at primary level have never made these bright minds to learn the basics. So what ever knowledge these students have is wasted because of lack of English knowledge.
Now what has government done to encourage teachers in rural sectors. They have put a rule but never followed it. Also there is an award for best teacher every year and it is given based on seniority and not based on your achievements or taking your rural service into account.
So this is the status of rural schools in Tamil Nadu. What more do u think government can do now? They can make rules to encourage but the execution is always a problem.
But government schools in cities are the best. I have done all my schooling in government schools and never faced any problem.

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

rajraj!
i work in IBM. I meant it in the Indian context. It is not as simple as in USA where you had only one oppressed section of people.

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I think you missed the point! If the private corporations in India tried they can always find well qualified candidates from any section of the society. Are they trying hard? Will they try? Will it take government intervention? That was what it took in the US.

Minorities in US include blacks, hispanics,native Americans,Asians and women.

You work for IBM. May be, in the next all employees meeting you can raise this issue and see what happens! :) Who knows? IBM might take the lead as it did in the US.