Great THAMIZH - ISAI !

The Seven Major Scales in Music - according to Elango Adigal.

Ok here we go! These are few lines from Silapathikaram - ArangetRa Kaathai..

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pAlai = scale
kural = C (sa)
thutham = D (ri)
kaikilai = E (ga)
uzhai = F (ma)
iLi = G (pa)
viLari = A (da)
tharam = B (ni)

Here, Ilango give the names of the 7 Major Scales and explains how they are derived - pan peryathal or palai thiripu.

C to C
cempAlai (T)
Ionian (G)
Dherasankaaabharanam (S)

D to D
padumalaippAlai (T)
Dorian (G)
Kharaharapriya (S)

E to E
sevvazhippAlai (T)
Phrygian (G)
Hanumathodi (S)

F to F
arumpAlai (T)
Lydian (G)
Mechakalyaani (S)

G to G
kOdippAlai (T)
Mixo-Lydian (G)
Harikaambhoji (S)

A to A
vilarippAlai (T)
Aeolian (G)
Natabhairavi (S)

B to B
mERcempAlai (T)
Locrian (G)
(non existent in carnatic)

** Tamil (T), Ancient Greek (G), Recent Carnatic Sanskritisation (S)

More on Western Modes and Scales:
http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistra...odes/modes.htm

What is 'cycle of fifths'?? Can Elango explain that?? We will see!

What is said in O. Goswami's book - History of Indian Music?? Anyone got a copy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Idiappam

The Seven Major Scales in Music - according to Elango Adigal.

B to B
mERcempAlai (T)
Locrian (G)
(non existent in carnatic)

** Tamil (T), Ancient Greek (G), Recent Carnatic Sanskritisation (S)

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Idiappam Sir,
Is B to B(mercempalai) permanently lost to us now in carnatic music? Is it possible to revive that in carnatic music copying what is done in Western music? After Yazh, kinnaram , we have lost 1 more thing :(

Idiappam Sir,
Also, if possible, please try to post the urai of your quotes from Silapadhikaram.I want to learn that too. Sorry for being sooooo selfish :lol: :D :wink:

Quote:

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Idiappam Sir,
Is B to B(mercempalai) permanently lost to us now in carnatic music? Is it possible to revive that in carnatic music copying what is done in Western music?

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Mercempalai - is not a common scale in the West either! It lacked the fifth G - (panchamam). Panchamam is replaced by the prathi madyamam F#. - ie. it has two madyamams.

Carnatics have, since Venkatamakhi's melakartha system have dumped all the ragas that had two Ma's - F and F#. That's is flaw in that mela system. A lot of Tamil melodies have gone extinct due to that. Fortunately, some are retained in Hindustani Music - they rejected the Venkatamakhi's mela system!

I think Hindustani Ragas, born of Mercempalai, like Hamir, Byak, Lalat (or Lalath) etc have two Ma's! Can someone confirm this - Perhaps Mr Lakshman - would you come here a while please!

Meanwhile, I will work on the Silapathigaram lines quoted.

I recently read in some carnatic forum about the prescence of two Ma's(both the madyamams) where there was a discussion about some technical term.I do not remember it now.
Maybe,skkrisji and Lakshmanji can help.

Thanks for accpeting my request for the urai of silapadhikaram quotes

Quote:

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I think Hindustani Ragas, born of Mercempalai, like Hamir, Byak, Lalat (or Lalath) etc have two Ma's! Can someone confirm this - Perhaps Mr Lakshman - would you come here a while please!

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Some Hindustani raags do have both the Madhyamas

For instance, Lalit has the aarohan and avarohan as follows:


'N r G m M m G M d S'


r' N d M d M m G r S

Again Hamir which is comparable to Hamir Kalyani has

S G m P N S'


S' N D P G M P G m R S

I am not sure but maybe even Saranga has a prathi madhyam in its avarohanam.

Note: I have used the notation 'Swara to mean the lower octave and Swara' to indicate the higher octave

The Seven Scales in Music - Elango Adigal.
--- Explanatory notes

®÷²ú ¦¾¡Îò¾ ¦ºõÓ¨Èì §¸ûŢ¢ý 70
with a perfect scale with a set of fourteen notes
(spanning two octaves)

µ÷²ú À¡¨Ä ¿¢Úò¾ø §ÅñÊ
wanting to effect (and maintain) a set of seven scales

Åý¨Á¢ü ¸¢¼ó¾ ¾¡Ã À¡¸Óõ
the Tharam (B. Ni) being the higher note (vanmai)

¦Áý¨Á¢ü ¸¢¼ó¾ ÌÃÄ¢ý À¡¸Óõ
and Kural (C, Sa) being the lower note (menmai) ---CDEFGAB

¦Áö츢¨Ç ¿ÃõÀ¢ü ¨¸ì¸¢¨Ç ¦¸¡ûÇì
kaikilai (E, Ga) took the (third) string (meikilai narambu) - the lower fifth from B

¨¸ì¸¢¨Ç ´Æ¢ò¾ À¡¸Óõ ¦À¡üÒ¨¼ò 75
¾Çáò ¾¡Ãõ Å¢ÇâìÌ ®òÐì
besides Kaikilai(E), from the ever-beutiful Tharam(B)
spaced at one interval lower (pakam), is the Vilari(A, Da)

¸¢¨ÇÅÆ¢ô Àð¼Éû, ¬í§¸ ¸¢¨ÇÔõ
¾ý¸¢¨Ç «Æ¢×¸ñÎ «ÅûÅ¢ü §ºÃ
Then re-tuning that to its fifth (kilai)

²¨É Á¸Ç¢Õõ ¸¢¨ÇÅÆ¢î §ºÃ
the rest of the maidens (notes) re-tuned to their fifths

§ÁÄÐ ¯¨Æ¢Ǣ ¸£ÆÐ ¨¸ì¸¢¨Ç 80
from the top strings being Ulai (Ma) and Ili (Pa) to the lowest Kailikai (Ga)
---- two (or three) octaves M P D N / S R G M P D N / S R G -
the forteen notes thus distrubuted
---- (this is known as the 'Greater Perfect System' in Greek music)

ÅõÒ¯Ú ÁÃÀ¢ý ¦ºõÀ¡¨Ä ¬ÂÐ
according to established usage (vamburu marabu)
the Cempalai, became the mother scale (Ayathu - Ay = mother)

þÚ¾¢ ¬¾¢ ¬¸ ¬íÌ«¨Å
The last note taken as the first, respectively

¦ÀÚÓ¨È Åó¾ ¦ÀüȢ¢ý ¿£í¸¡Ð
without losing their natural (petriyin) quality

ÀÎÁ¨Ä ¦ºùÅÆ¢ À¸÷«Õõ À¡¨Ä±Éì
The Padumalai, Sevvali, and Arumpalai scales

ÌÃøÌÃø ¬¸ò ¾ü¸¢Æ¨Á ¾¢Ã¢ó¾À¢ý 85
with (successive notes) becoming Kural (starting notes),
thus shifting (thirinthapin - thirupu = alter, shift), in relation to the first (thaRkilamai)
kilamai - shift in relation to the whole (first)

Óýɾý Ũ¸§Â ӨȨÁ¢ý ¾¢Ã¢óЬíÌ
In a similar manner, stated before, the shifts -

þÇ¢Ó¾ Ä¡¸¢Â ²÷ÀÎ ¸¢Æ¨ÁÔõ
from Ili (Pa) onwards, efecting a shift to kural (Sa)

§¸¡Ê Å¢Çâ §Áü¦ºõ À¡¨Ä±É
kOdi, Vilari, Mecempalai, respectively

¿£Êì ¸¢¼ó¾ §¸ûÅ¢ì ¸¢¼ì¨¸Â¢ý
with extensive notes (kelvi) flowing continuously (kidakkai)

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Selecting the iNai narambu (iNai - union, harmony) strings to adjoin (aNaivura) in sequence

¡ú§Áü À¡¨Ä þ¼Ó¨È ¦ÁÄ¢Âì
These scales on the Yazh lowers (meliya) left

ÌÆø§Áü §¸¡Ê ÅÄÓ¨È ÅÄ¢Â
From kOdi, on the Kuzhal, the scales increases (valiya) right

ÅÄ¢×õ ¦ÁÄ¢×õ ºÁÛõ ±øÄ¡õ
These octaves higher (valivu), lower (melivu), middle (saman)

¦À¡Ä¢Âì §¸¡ò¾ ÒĨÁ §Â¡Û¼ý,
in their splendour (poliya) without errors, the expert (musician)..........
---- Elango refers to mAthavi's teacher here.

Hope that is clear! Feel free to comment and correct!

Sabapathy

... SPLENDID.... My Dear Mr. Sabapathy... What a RICH-MESSAGE !!

Please go ahead.

idiappam:
What type of font is needed to look at the tamil text you have posted?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lakshman

idiappam:
What type of font is needed to look at the tamil text you have posted?

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Nice to see you here Mr. Lakshman Sir!

TSCII fonts! I use them, yes!

Sudhaama said:

Quote:

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... SPLENDID.... My Dear Mr. Sabapathy... What a RICH-MESSAGE !!

Please go ahead.

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Thank you! I think I have to post a list of Tamil words on Music Terminology soon! Before that, a little on the 'cycle of fifths'.

Idiappam Sir,

±ñ½¢Â á§Ä¡÷ þÂøÀ¢É¢ý ÅÆ¡«Ð

Does "noolor" mean experts? One who are well versed in books(nool)?
This is another indication that books were existent during elango's time.Probably in olai chuvadu format.

A question on the history of carnatic music development?

How did Venkatamakhi enforce that his melakartha scheme takes precedence over other existing schmes.Those days there were no technology to spread something newly discovered/created far and wide quickly. And why did Tamils adopt this scheme knowing fully well that it is flawed(not allowing two Ma's)? Was it forced upon by some kings ? Those days ,kings were the only source of sustenance to musicians and if they want to avoid poverty,they better follow the king's orders.Any ideas on this?

±ñ½¢Â á§Ä¡÷ þÂøÀ¢É¢ý ÅÆ¡«Ð

Quote:

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Does "noolor" mean experts? One who are well versed in books(nool)?
This is another indication that books were existent during elango's time.Probably in olai chuvadu format.

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Yes!

Enniya = well researched
noolor = scholars /authors
iyalbinin valaa athu = not departing from the nature of (that grammer of music)

Ok, while writing the story of the Melakarta, lets listen to this -

Radha Samedha - Raag Mishra Yaman - A Hindustani Raaga.
Kunnakudi Vaithyanathan on the Violin at:

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/3/...18/artist.175/

Can someone tell me the Arohana/Avarohana of this Raaga, and in which Mela can we possibly fit it into. Thanks!

I have heard this song beautifully rendered by MLV for a Tamil film.Was it really composed by GNB?
This raga looks so similar to Charukesi in carnatic for me.It looked like kunnakudi was playing "Krishna Govinda murare" :D

Awaiting the history of how venkatamakhi's melakarta scheme became accepted by Tamil musicians

Quote:

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Awaiting the history of how venkatamakhi's melakarta scheme became accepted by Tamil musicians

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Music is an art - not science, nor arithmetics. Venkatamakhi (17th Century CE(AD) just tried to 'systematise' what there was using arithmetics. First, he just grouped them into two - based on the 'Ma' (F or F#)they had. The 12 noted system was in place for thousands of years! Making 22 sruties(tones in a scale) out of this 12 notes - there can be just 72 Melas - not any more. Simple arithmetics.

Another thing Venkatamakhi did, is, he named and renamed the Melas. They say, by using his naming method you can 'detect' the notes that are in place for a specific mela - no big deal! A plain serial number would have been sufficient and easier to handle, instead of the long bewildering 'Sanskrit sounding' names of the Melas - Dheerasankaraabharanam, Simhendramadhyamam, Shadividhamaargini, Naasikaabhooshini, Shadividhamaargini, Maayaamaalavagowla, Vakulaabharanam, Gaangeyabhooshani.

I wonder, if these names really have some meanings in any language??

Then they were made into smaller groups -- The Chakras, causing more choas. The system was intended to see some order out the 'choas' of 'so many raagas'

The Character of the Scales were totally ignored by Venkatamakhi. Of the 72 mela scales 32 were diatonic (having only 2 semitones - seperated - not successive), The rest, 40 scales are chromatic (having 2 or more semitones consequtively.)

The Tamils had a better system of groups
PerumpAlai - Diatonic Scales
CirupAlai - Chromatic Scales

The Pentatonic, Hexatonic and Octotonic scales had no place in the Venkatamakhi's schemes - they are all lumped together and called janya raagas - having nothing special about them! Venkatamakhi had all the Janaka Raagas (parent raagas) in his coup. The rest are chickens!

What a brain!

Saranga Deva, the Musicologist of Ratnagara Fame - did more work! At least, we know that he was fiddling with two Veenas of 22 strings each, trying to get to the bottom, understanding South Indian Music.

More, on the Melakarta and Ratnagara, soon! Going for tea now!

Thanks Idiappam Sir!

But,how come Tamils accepted this scheme when they had a better scheme( as you say).They would know that this scheme would make some pans go away(which had 2 Ma's in them).

Was it forced by some king that all musicans should follow venkatamakhi from some date? how come it spread to all musicans in all the states of AP,TN,Karnataka and Kerala? Musicians should have been able to reject it easily knowing its flaws which you have detailed.

My guess is that it was some fear which made them accept venkatamakhi even though they knew the flaws of his system.

"Krishna mukunda murare" is in raga Maand

Also,I heard that Prof.Sambandamoorthy was totally against this melekarta scheme and he was supported by Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer and semmangudi srinivasa iyer.but,the conservatives prevailed at the Music Academy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Thanks Idiappam Sir!

But,how come Tamils accepted this scheme when they had a better scheme( as you say).They would know that this scheme would make some pans go away(which had 2 Ma's in them).

Was it forced by some king that all musicans should follow venkatamakhi from some date? how come it spread to all musicans in all the states of AP,TN,Karnataka and Kerala? Musicians should have been able to reject it easily knowing its flaws which you have detailed.

My guess is that it was some fear which made them accept venkatamakhi even though they knew the flaws of his system.

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Dear Viggop, you would have realised that I have avoided answering this question, when you raised that earlier. My answer may send me to the gallows (the Kings are fierce). But never mind, since you insist, I will take the risk!

The Melakarta Scheme is just that, a SCHEME! To suppress something great like Tamil Isai, you need such schemes! They were put to use effectively by later Schemers too - bewildering the laymen. I hope that is clear! :wink:

Now lets run......!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

"Krishna mukunda murare" is in raga Maand

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There is a paN named 'Kolli' in Tamil! Appar's first Thevaram 'kootrayinavaaru vilakkakileer' is sung to that paN. The present name of that Kolli pan is 'navroj'.

Krishna mukunda, if it does not fit Maand, try Navroj then!

Kolli paN is used for lullabys too, along with the pans Senthuruthi (Madyamaavathi), and Megaraagakurinji (Neelambari).

Viggop:

<Also,I heard that Prof.Sambandamoorthy was totally against this melekarta scheme and he was supported by Maha Vaidyanatha Iyer...>

Are you sure it was Maha Vadyanatha Iyer? He died in 1893 and P.Sambamurti wasn't even bornthen!

In my vague memory, a lawyer turned musicologist and close associate of prof sambhamoorthy ,by name vasudeva shastrigal who was doing research work on palm leaves at sarasawathi mahal was raising controversies regarding this subject in early fifties in kalki magazine.

Lakshmanji
It is not Prof.Sambamurthi.I rememeber reading the name as TS.Sambandhmoorthy

Idiappam Sir
I find your answer cryptic and do not fully understand it but if you want to avoid talking about something,then there must be a good reason.

Let us not post anything which will digress from the topic of the thread.Let us continue about Thamizh isai only. :D

Idiappam,
In his comment (anindhurai) on the book, thennaga isai iyal, by Chelladurai, Avvai Natarajan says ' annilaiyil 11991 paN vagaigaLai annaaLil thamizhar kaNdanar'. Earlier in that paragraph he mentions adiyaarkku nallaar. I suspect you can find it in adiyaarkku nallaar urai. If you are very particular I can call Natarajan and find out where in Silappadhikaaram we can find it. The problem is that he is difficult to get at home.
I will look for other books on music to determine the source. The book by Chelladhurai is good introduction to South Indian Music.

Abraham Padithar, in is Karunaamirutha Saagaram - page 620' quotes this verse - from Silapathigaram Arangetra kaathai, he says. But it is probably from Adiyarkku Nallar urai.

¯Â¢Õ¢÷ ¦ÁöÂÇ ×¨Ãò¾¨Åô À¡Ä¢Û
Ó¼ÈÁ¢ Æ¢ÂÄ¢¨º §Âؼý ÀÌòÐ
ã§Åú ¦Àö¾ó ... ... ...
¦¾¡ñÎ Á£ñ¼ ÀýÉ£ á¢Ãí
¦¸¡ñ¼É âÂüÈø ¦¸¡¨ÇÅø§Ä¡÷ ¸¼§É.

The 11991 pans is also mentioned in the recent urai of Puliyoor Kesigan.

From Kamba Ramayanam(dated 8th century AD)

முழவினில் வீணையில், முரல் நல் யாழினில்
தழுவிய குழலினில், சங்கில் தாரையில்
எழு குரல் இன்றியே, என்றும் இல்லது ஓர்
அழு குரல் பிறந்தது, அவ் இலங்கைக்கு அன்றுஅரோ

veenai,yazh,kuzhal(flute),sangu(conch) and the seven notes are mentioned by Kambar here

Dear Readers,

There was a reference to Carnatic Music in an issue of the 'Indian Perspectives' Magazine, in the article titled "From boiled beans to Bangalore" written by Raj Vir Mittal, which is as follows:

---------------------

".....The traditions of the Indian Classical Karnatak (Carnatic) Music can be traced back to Hampi - the centre of activity of the Vijayanagar empire (1336-1646 A.D.) which had reached its pinnacle during the rule of Krishnadevaraya who built temples
in fine and elaborate Hindu style of Architecture....."

----------------------

This Carnatic Music spread throught the empire of Vijayanagara, and also in Tamil Nadu - which came under the suzerainty of this empire and received the impact of this music tradition.

The Tamil Nadu was left to be ruled by the Nayakkar kings appointed by the Vijayanagara Emperors - as their subordinates. The Nayakar kings were essentialy Telungu speaking, a language which received much recognition in its use in administration and in the day to day life of the people of Tamil Nadu under these kings.

This situation created the undermining of the traditional Tamil Music in Tamil Nadu, and the dominance of Carnatic Music and the development of the Keerthanas in Telungu by the Musicians of that period and thereafter - including the Sangeetha Mummoorthis of Tamil Nadu. This situation still prevails in Tamil Nadu.

Music whether it be in Tamil, Telungu, Kannada, or Malayalam it <u>should be appreciated by every one.</u>

But if the Music Recital is to be of Telungu Keerthanas & Songs, then the Music Festival should be correctely called as Telungu Music Festival. If it is to be with Kannada Keerthanas & Songs then it should be correctly referred to as Karnatic(Carnatic) Music Festival. If it is to be with Tamil Keerthanas & Songs it should be correctly referred to as the Tamil Music Festival.

But it is very incorrect to say that it is a "Tamil Music Festival", and the programmes to be referred to as "Karnatic(Carnatic) Music" by leading Singers, and finally on the stage to sing "Telungu Keerthanas".

It is high time the Musicians of Tamil Nadu revived the Tamil Music which received its fatal blow during the Vijayanagara Empire, and bring it back to its prestine glory as spearheaded by Sir Annamalai Chettiar with his "Thamil Isai Iyyakkam".

I trust the Musicians of Tamil Nadu will collectively bring back the Tamil Music on to its pedestal - in Tamil Nadu and among the Tamils all over the World.

Dear Mr.Idiappam :!:

Excellent work in this thread :!: Your notations are unparallel indeed! I read in "MANORAMA YEAR BOOK 2001" the significance of 'tamil Isai' which was the base for Indian & West Asian music.

In the same book I noticed Tamil 'Sathirattam' turned present 'Bharathanattiyam'.

Panthanallur style Sathirattam is famous one.

Thiru. Sudhaama can open a thread on Bharathanatitiyam also.

Tamil isai does not mean not only singing in tamil :!: It has other proportions that have been clearly put forth by Idiappam. There are tamil names to specify all these present terminology of Carnatic/Hindustani music.

The intricasies of tamil music has been clearly understood by Maestro Ilayaraja and just because of that, it has been easier for him to go on with symphony in Thiruvasakam :!:

Everybody expects glorious past to be revived. Tamilian arts should not die.

f.s.gandhi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F.S.Gandhi vandayar

// .... I noticed Tamil 'Sathirattam' turned present 'Bharathanattiyam'.

Panthanallur style Sathirattam is famous one.

Thiru. Sudhaama can open a thread on Bharathanatitiyam also. ...

...Everybody expects glorious past to be revived. Tamilian arts should not die.

f.s.gandhi

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Dear Mr F.S. Gandhi,

Duly HONOURING your Wish... I have started now a New Thread on Bharatha- Naattiyam ...

http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=5118

Interested Hubbers are welcome to enrich that Thread also.

Mikka Anbudan,
Sudhaama

Thiru Virarajendra
Please let us not divide carnatic music into Telegu Music festival, Tamil music festival etc. Let us call it carnatic music.
Artists can sing in any language they want and i'll enjoy all well rendered songs.

As you have mentioned, it is still Tamilians who are ruling the roost in carnatic music. Chennai is the Mecca of carnatic music.In chennai, every december(dec 15-jan 15), there is a music season held and a Sangeetha Kalanidhi is chosen.I have been to these concerts and have enjoyed them a lot.

Let us enjoy the divine carnatic music and trust Lord Shiva to protect it.
:)

Thank you Thiru Sudhaama :!:

I may come up with some historical aspects in the 'Bharathanatyam" thread after sometime.

Ofcourse music does not need any language whenever instruments only played. Maestro Ilayaraja's 'Nothing but wind' & 'How to name it' , Hentri Bhithoven's 'waves' & American Lionel Richie's ' Gambling' expressed the atmosphere & feelings to enjoy within it.

But whenever words are filled up language plays important role. At least in TamilNadu, tamil songs should be played. Otherwise. As Director K.Balachandar put it in his film "Sinthu Bairavi",Thalai Aattum Puriyatha Koottam" only will be there in Tamil Nadu!

As Mr.Idiappam told earlier in this thread during 19th century(still continues) tamil was considered as 'Neesa Basha'-Theetu among "Sabhas".

Some two years back I happened to hear Dr.Pushpavanam Kuppusami's concert in tamil Isai with New "Keerthanaas". It was really wonderful! Will present sabhas call him for concert? I think he is considered as a person of folk songs(Naatturap pura Paadal) only :!:

f.s.gandhi

Dear FSG
All languages are sung in today's concerts.Just go to this years december season in chennai.u might catch hold of marathi abhangs and some bengali songs too other than the usual Tamil, tellugu,sanskrit,kannada,malayalam and hindi(usually bhajans)
Let us Enjoy the divine carnatic music.
:-)

FYI , Pushpavanam Kuppusami is graduated in carnatic music.

I wonder what people here really mean by tamiz isai. singing songs in Tamil with the same old ragas?? Is tamil lyrics is what you guys mean? or.... I am not able to understand... Pls Explain..!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Indrajith

FYI , Pushpavanam Kuppusami is graduated in carnatic music.

I wonder what people here really mean by tamiz isai. singing songs in Tamil with the same old ragas?? Is tamil lyrics is what you guys mean? or.... I am not able to understand... Pls Explain..!!

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By Two aspects we have to look on this Topic...

One ... by Sahithya... so called Lyrics ... in Tamil.

Second... by the Ancient Tamilian-Music-Culture... UNIQUE AND INDEPENDANT on its own... as Thamizh- Isai- Kalai

... on which Mr. Idiappam has already made a Beautiful and Indepth Analytical postings here.

Tamilian-Musical Art had its own Tamil-terms... like PANH for Raga ... and each Raga as per Tamil is different from what we name commonly in Karnatic music.....

Tamil-Isai-Sangam at Chennai has already made a Research as...PANH- AARAAYCHI (Raga Research)... and put forth their Findings...

.. which are quite THOUGHT-PROVOKING as well as richly informative with a message that Tamil-Music-Culture has SOMETHING MORE TO SAY...

... On Karnatic Music... even though basically both are same.

.. unlike any other Sub-Culture of Indian Heritage... as one Common Group of South-indian Music named KARNATIC-MUSIC ... comprising of Telugu, Kerala, Karnataka regions

... alongside parallelly on North-Indian Music, named as Hindustani Music of Bengal, Maharashtra, Hindi belts etc.

None of them has a separate Sub-Culture as Telugu-Sangeetha- Kala, or Kannada-Sangeetha- Kala or Hindi-Sangeetha- Kala...

... PARALLEL TO TAMIL-ISAI- KALAI.....a Sub-division of Karnatic Music.

So this Thread-Topic.... pertains more to this RICH AND APPLIED KNOWLEDGE ...

...of the Second aspect of TAMIL- MUSIC CULTURE of Ancient days...

... still relevant and lively in the Contemporary Age too.... a pride of immortal TAMIL- CULTURE.

Putting that simply...

"Karnatic" music is a branch (recent offshoot) of Tamil Isai.

The reason for saying that karnatic music is different - well, The 'patterns of performing' is rigid with its rules. The terminology is translated from Tamil to non-Tamil.

And there you are, Karnatic Music appears something on its own... Not so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Thiru Virarajendra
Please let us not divide carnatic music into Telegu Music festival, Tamil music festival etc. Let us call it carnatic music.
Artists can sing in any language they want and i'll enjoy all well rendered songs. :)

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Yeah, don't worry! The Tamils always had a large stage, that all can share. And sometimes get pushed off it.

Vazhga Tamil. Yet it remains.

I wish I had more time to contribute to this thread with further quotes from Silapathigaram on Tamil musicology and Tamil musical terminlogy - what it used to be - for the non-Tamil terms used now.

Idiappam Sir
Neither of us need to worry about future of carnatic music.As I said, Tamils are still ruling the roost there.And also, we can trust Lord Shiva to protect it :-)

Enjoy this well written article on Chowdiah

http://classical-music-review.blogsp...blog-post.html

Vazga carnataka sangeetham!

Source : http://www.tamilar.org/tamil-music.asp


The music of the pre-Christian era, namely, the Sangam period is called Tamil music. This period ranges approximately between 300 BC and 3 AD.

Great musical works like Tolkappiam, Ettutogai, Patthupattu, etc provide a lot of information on ancient Tamil music, which is believed by some, as the mother of Carnatic music. Through various books and ancient Tamil treatises we come to know of the existence of different types of music, musical instruments, musical forms, Panns (the equivalent of Ragas) and so on.

The 7 basic notes known by Sanskrit names today were known by pure Tamil names such as, Kural, Tuttam, Kaikilai, Uzhai, Ili, Vilari and Taram. There are even terms for the notes in different octaves. For example, Kurai Tuttam and Nirai Tuttam refer to the Rishabha in the lower and upper octaves respectively.

The other interesting feature is that there lived another set of three composers called the Tamil Moovar (Trinity), who lived about five decades before the Tiruvarur Trinity (Tyagaraja, Muthuswami Dikshitar and Syama Sastri). They were Muthutandavar, Arunachala Kavi and Marimutha Pillai. In fact, the earliest Trinity were the peerless Tevaram Trinity - Appar, Sundarar and Gnanasambandar - who were well known for their language and devotion.

The ancient Tamil treatises like Tolkappiam and Silappadikaram mention 'Pannati', the equivalent of raga alapana. Instruments like Kuzhal (Flute), Yazh (Vina / Harp) and Muzhavu (percussion) seem to have been the accompaniments for both music and dance.

It is very interesting to note that Sanskrit authors like Sarangadeva and Matanga have made profuse use of Tevaram Panns. It is said that the name “Raga” was given to Panns by Sanskrit authors. Raga was however, a well-known term in the Pann period, e.g. Takka ragam, Natta ragam, Pazhantakka ragam, Megha ragam etc. Ragas are not very different from Panns. Though the Panns find great elaboration in Silappadikaram long before the Tevaram songs, it was Gnanasambandar who gave these Panns a new life through his songs and poetry. In fact, Muthutandavar has even composed songs in the traditional Pallavi-Anupallavi-Charanam format, thus laying the foundation for the present day kritis.

Later composers like Gopalakrishna Bharati, Papanasam Sivan, Subramanya Bharati, Periasami Tooran and others have also contributed towards the propagation of Carnatic music with Tamil as the medium of language.

Tamil Music can be studied under different topics like (a) Ancient Musical Treatises and Historical References (b) Musical Instruments (c) Musical Forms (d) Melodic and Rhythmic Forms.

ANCIENT MUSIC TREATISES AND HISTORICAL REFERENCES

Tamil music is considered one of the most ancient music systems in the world. This is a very special system of music, characteristic and specific to the Tamil people. The historical references to the structure of music, musical instruments, method of singing, the circumstances under which the music developed, etc have been cited in very ancient texts that date back to as early as the 1st and 2nd century AD.

TOLKAPPIAM

This text, written by Tolkappiar, gives references to the music that prevailed about 2000 years ago, besides dealing with the life of the early Tamilians, their customs, social and political conditions and the physical and geographical particulars.

From this work, one understands that the country was divided into four main regions - Kurinji (hills), Marudam (arable lands), Mullai (pastoral regions) and Neithal (coastal belts). Later Palai (wastelands) was also added. Each region had its own food, occupation, Gods, music and so on. As mentioned earlier, each region also had a mode or Pann, melodic instrument or Yazh and percussion instrument or Parai. The following is a list of the different regions and their specific Pann-s, Yazh-s and Parai-s.



REGION PANN YAZH PARAI
Kurinji Kurinji Kurinji Tondaga
Mullai Sadari Mullai Erukot
Marudam Maruda Maruda Nellaikinai / Munamuzhavu
Neithal Sevvazhi Vilari Minkot, Navayapambai



It appears that these five Panns were in use from the earliest times and must have originated from the simple folk tunes and tribal songs of the ancient Tamils. The system of naming the musical modes after the land seems to have a parallel in the Greek music system too, where the 5 ancient modes were called Dorian, Lydian, Phrygian, Aeolian and Ionian, after the lands in which they originated.

Tolkappiam refers to the mode of production of sound as “Ahattezhu Vali Isai”. This is the primordial sound that originates from 'mooladhara' and sounds musical. (The great composer Tyagaraja has also echoed this thought in many of his compositions, with special reference to the Charanam of the kriti, ‘Mokshamu Galada’ in raga Saramati).

In the section on alphabets, the author talks of vowels and consonants that exceed the limit of sound. Here, he probably refers to the inter-relationship between language and music.

Tolkappiar mentions a musical form called 'Pattu Vannam'. He has given about 20 different types of Vannam-s, probably classified on the basis of the letters of the alphabet in each of those. He has also given different types of songs like Asiriapattu, Neduven pattu, Adivarai, Seer, Ahaval Osai, Vellosai, etc. which are classified on the basis of the musical quality, metrical structure etc. He also refers to a special type of musical song called 'Tazhisai'.

ETTUTOGAI

As the name suggests, this is a collection of eight different works, as explained below:

NATRINAI:This consists of 4000 verses of Ahaval type. There are many references to musical instruments like Yazh, Muzhavu (percussion), etc and these are equated to the hum of bees, sound of waterfalls etc. There is mention of Ambal Pann, which could be essayed very beautifully, on the flute. There is also a reference to the Muzhavu being used during festival times. Various other drums also have been mentioned which were used in the battlefield, during tight-rope walking, to drive away sparrows from the field and so on.
P
URANANOORU: This is a set of 400 ballad songs mainly sung by court minstrels and wandering bards in praise and honour of the kings of South. The instruments mentioned here are the Seeriyazh with shining strings and Manamuzha, a percussion instrument that was used to accompany female singers. There are references to Panns Sevvazhi, Padumalai and Vilari. Mention of Orchestral music, the 3 octaves and seven notes are also found.

AINKURUNOORU: Five hundred Ahaval type verses are found here, apart from references to Mullai region and the Nalyazh. The other instruments mentioned here are the Tattai, Tannumai (both percussion) and the Thombu and flute (both wind instruments). It is said that Ambal Pann was played on the flute in the evenings. There is also mention of a Pann Panjuram, which was used to portray the emotion of fear. Panjuram, in the present day context, happens to be Sankarabharanam.

KALITOGAI: This work of Ettutogai is a collection of love songs. Music served various purposes in this Mullai region. References have been made to the yazh, which was used to tame wild animals which in turn, could attract cattle, control a mad elephant and so on. There is a reference to a seven-stringed yazh too. The 2 types of flutes mentioned here are the Ambal and Konrai. The music of the flute, which was compared to the dragonfly, was also used as a drone instrument, which prevented the yazh from deviating from its pitch. Mention is made of 4 kinds of Murasu, namely, Ponmurasu, Viramurasu, Koraimurasu and Nayamurasu (all drums). These have been used in the battlefields and also to pass on information. Another interesting reference to Kuravai Koottu (a type of folk art) has been made, wherein the accompaniment was Tannumai, which is equivalent to the present day mridangam. Panns Nottiram and Sevvazhi have been mentioned as creating the Soka (pathos) rasa (emotion). Besides, there is a mention of Unjal pattu or swing-song. There is also a reference to the people in the Neithal region making use of the whole bone to make yazh with the tree fibres as strings.

AHANANURU: This consists of 400 songs apart from many references to music. The most interesting one is the likening of Panns with rasas and the cries of animals. It has been said that Sevvazhi Pann expresses grief. There is also a reference to an elephant that stood transfixed after listening to the strains of Kurinji Pann. Sevvazhi Pann was also performed on yazh while praying. Yazh seems to have been a very popular instrument. The wind instruments referred to are Konrai Kuzhal and Thombu. Muzhavu is mentioned as having been played with hands and sticks and the Kinai was used as an accompaniment for vocal music.

PARIPPADAL: Of all the works in Ettutogai, this is the one that abounds in references to music and music related aspects. This could also be called Paripattu. The songs are in praise of Vishnu, Muruga and river Vaigai. After every poem, the name of the poet, the music composer and the Pann are specified. The first 11 songs are set in Palaiyazh Pann, the next 5 in Nerthiram or Nottiram (Bhoopalam) and the next four in Gandharam. There are a number of poets who have contributed to Parippadal. There is a verse, which compares vocal music and instruments to Nature. It is also mentioned that the blending of the yazh with the 2, 5 or 7- holed flute sounds beautiful. Another interesting feature is the mention of yazh being played to the pitch of the flute.
Neival Pann was used to portray happiness and this was sung to the accompaniment of yazh. Palai Pann was used to depict the emotion of joy to the accompaniment of yazh, kuzhal and muzham. We see references to Seer and Pani as being synonymous to Tala. We also find references to the descriptions of dancers and musicians. Among the wind instruments, there are references to Thombu, which resembles the flute and to flute itself. It has been mentioned that the blending of flute and muzham sounded good and that the flute was played opening and closing the holes with fingers. Muzham was considered to be an auspicious instrument, which was played during festivals and marriages. It's mentioned that Lord Muruga was propitiated by girls to the accompaniment of Muzhavu. A particular verse suggests that a paste called 'Mann' was applied on the ‘eye’ of the Muzhavu. It almost resembled the Tannumai. These details prove that the Muzhavu had carved an important position for itself in the music for that period. There are also references, which indicate that the Murasu was played by beating with a stick and that the three instruments Maddari, Tatari and Tannumai were played to the beat of ‘seer’ which is a synonym for Tala. Mention is made of brass instruments also. There is a very interesting reference to modal shift of tonic found in Parippadal.

PADITRUPATTU: This work consists of 100 Ahaval type verses. This is divided in to 10 sections with 10 songs each and for each song, the rhythm and melody (Tookku and Vanmai) have been mentioned. Tookku is a synonym for Pani, which means Tala. There is a reference to Kuravai dance. It is also mentioned that the female musician, Virali, sang Palaiyazh pann to the accompaniment of yazh, which sounded very pleasing. Apart from the Periyazh, references are also made to Seeriyazh. 'Sangu' or conch was another instrument that was highly respected. 'Valampuri Sangu', a conch with an anti-clockwise twist was accorded even a higher place as this was scarce to procure. There is reference to Thombu, a wind instrument that was probably a larger version of the flute. There is a verse that suggests that one side of Tannumai, the percussion instrument, had a paste applied on it and that it was played with hands. This seems to suggest that Tannumai can be considered the equivalent of the present day Mridangam. Muzhavu was used in festivals while Murasu was used in battlefields. It seems each region had its own native tree. The king or chief who won the battle would make a Murasu out of the defeated King’s native tree and sound it, which would cause embarrassment to the defeated king. Lord Muruga was the special deity. There are many references to music in this work, which gives us an insight into the music of Kadai Sangam period (later Sangam period).

KURUNTHOGAI: In this, the Panar are mentioned extensively as being devoted to learning music and entertaining the people. These people were richly rewarded with presents. The chief of peasants, Yevvi, gave flowers of gold as a reward. Thus, where the chief died, the Panars sang with a lot of grief.
The instruments referred to here are Tannumai, Tondagam, Padalai, Murasu and Muzhavu of the percussion category. The flute and conch are the two wind instruments that are referred to. It is said that the music from the flute resembled the chirping of a bird called Vanga. This is the reason why flute got the name Vangiyam. The conch is also known by another name called 'Panilam'.

The instruments, Parai and Sangu are said to be played during marriage. The Tondaga Parai or Siruparai, belonging to the Kurinji land, was said to have been played by the people who guarded the city during nights, in order to drive away the beasts. The Pann Padumalai is said to belong to the Palai land and is portrayed as one sung for happy occasions. The Vilaripann, also called Irangarpann, is said to belong to the Neithal land and is supposed to portray a sad mood/emotion. The musical composition mentioned here are 'Vallai pattu' or 'Aval pattu' belonging to the folk-music, Kalarippa and Parani, belonging to martial music. The Vallai pattu is supposed to be sung by a young damsel in love, in praise of her lover while pounding. The martial music was sung by the Panar in the battlefield.

f.s.gandhi

Tamil music is "Holy Music"

Tamil music is sometimes categorised into Devotional, Classical and Popular Folk music. Rythms of popular folk music express a vitality which stems from the closeness of its contact with the life of a people. Classical music deepens and refines these associations with life and its moving ragas and melodies have withstood the passage of time and remain almost timeless. Finally, the devotional music of the Tamil people, gives expression to the ecstasy that comes from transcending our fragmented and partial self and becoming one with that which is whole and therefore holy.

Please sent your personnel opinion on this topic to this discussion forum.

Dr.M.Bala Tharumaningam

dear all,
thamiz isai miga vuyarnthathu.vedhanayagampillai,gopalakrishna bharathiyar,
paapanaasamsivan,arunachalakavi,sirantha raagangalil periya padagargal paadiyullanar.kavadichindhu,nondichindhu,ponra paadalgal annaamalai reddiyaar ponror iyarriyavai.tharkaalaththilum vairamuththu ponror ezuthiya 'poovil vandu..' enra paadal ponravaiyum sollalaam.
bharathiyaar, bharathithasanaar ivargal paadalgalsollavallayo,kakkai siraginile nandha lala, thunbam nergaiyil.. ponra padalgal sollikkonde pogalam.
thangamani.