Indian Vegetable Gardening

Gardening should be fun and not a chore.

When I first started serious gardening in 1985(Mid- west-USA), we started with too much enthusiasm, too many plants about 1500, in an acre and half of yard.

Used to spend a couple of hours everyday, we had some one to help us Plus A tiller and 3 compost piles.

We produced too much. One year we had 250-300 Bottle gourds form 5 plants (Loki-Sora –Bottle gourd).Literally had to request people to take them .Family got tired of harvesting, and using the vegetables.

Now getting older, learnt the easy way. Now it is more enjoyable, spend may be an hour or two during the season per week .Have enough for us, some left to share. Now the goals in gardening are more defined. Learnt the smart way.

The nearest Indian grocery store is about 120 miles away, being vegetarians, we do grow them, Can not eat cauliflower, potatoes and cabbage all the time.

There is nothing like getting few leaves fresh coriander, curry leaves, vegetables from garden.

Some of them such as Methi can be grown in winter months inside the home. It is a fast germinator (if you soak the seeds in warm water rover night-Not the cold tap water, keep it under light. use only water at room temperature –not cold water from the Tap).
Start successive planting in 2 or 3 plastic containers 5-6 inches deep made up of plastic- like a shoe box from wall- mart or a dollar store-drill some holes .Alternately in some of the stores like any thing for a dollar stores, like dollar tree one can buy small garbage cans for a dollar. It is easy to make holes .One can cover the holes with a coffee paper filters, or with a piece of cotton cloth(cut from old cotton vest, old bed sheets, Jeans Etc.The wet piece of cloth helps in moisture retention, excess water can seep out, but not the soil. It grows fast 3 weeks to four weeks if fertilized well.
Plant one of methi set every week or 10 days. When one batch is used up the second one is ready to harvest. Shoe box (Plastic) won’t take much space. If fertilized well they will be ready in 3-4 weeks.

In India a people are complaining about pesticides in Pepsi. Any one knows how much pesticide residues are there over the vegetables sold in the Market?

I gave a friend of mine several cuttings of cestrum (Raat Ki rani- Night blooming Jasmine-Night queen). They are easy to root, grow very fast. Heavenly fragrance in the night after 7-30 PM
He planted a half a dozen of them over his fence. Neighbourers complained that the over bearing fragrance gave them head ache. Hence the need for some moderation. (Easy to say-but difficult to follow).

One thing I found in the hard way is to prune.

Pruning stimulates the growth, more flowers, and more vegetables.
Most of Indians here (including me at one time) feel guilty to cut growing tips or lateral branches or remove suckers from tomatoes, vines etc.. Feel reluctant to cut some thing green and growing.
Many think it is complicated to learn to identify male and female flowers and pollinate them. When once they learn it they say”Tthis is it!.It is so simple”

It is useful for those plants with male and female flowers and if there are no bees and bugs around to do the Job.(Like snake Gourd, Bitter melon ETC)

More later.

Thanks a million for all these tips :)

by the way, can we use the molasses (jaggery water) in the compost bin to speed up composting?

The microorganisms in the compost or in the soil to which we added matter needs to sugar to survive and to multiply. They decompose the matter.

Hence the need to add molasses. Molasses are available as dry powder and as liquids.

But the cheapest source, which we have at home, is Jaggery.
If one lives near a seacoast, seaweed is free. It contains lots of minerals and growth stimulating harmones. Broken seashells are good to add, as they are a good source of calcium. Here in the US one can buy powdered seashells 7 dollars for 50 pound bag used to feed animals.(if collected they need to be washed to get rid of the salt)

In all some of the best sources for organic fertilizers –cheaper comes from animal feed stores. But they come in 50-pound bags.
Coffee grounds can be added. Some times one can buy 2 % skim powder close to the date of expiration at a bargain price. Some believe this takes out the bitterness out of some vegetables.

Continuing on Methi

Most of the time the Methi we buy comes with roots. Since labor is an expensive part they sell them that way. But the better way is to cut with a scissors the tops or some tender parts and let the plants grow continually. When done completely the roots can be mixed with soil and it will be ready to plant in a week or two. The same can be done with Dhania, (Kothimeer, and cilantro). That way we are adding organic matter to the soil again.

Since these are leafy vegetables high nitrogen fertilizers are best. I use them and I also use fish emulsion (Kept as a secret from my wife to avoid frowning). Give the plants water half way and then give them the fertilizer mixed water at half strength.

The leafy vegetables are a good source of Iron (highest in Mint)
But if the soil is deficient in Iron?

regards

[tscii]I have been growing snake gourd (potla kai)on and off for the past 10 years, grow up to—4 feet long — and their easy, pest-free, but space taking and Need a strong trellis.

Look like hanging green snakes, snake gourds are one of the vegetables that elicit frequent comments from the local people. The other one is bottle gourd (Loki, Sora kai, Doodhi)

There are two distinct categories of snake gourds offered by U.S. seed companies. One is a long, ornamental gourd that develops a hard shell when ripe; the other is the waxy-skinned snake gourd with which we are all familiar in India.

I am sorry I do not remember the Tamil name though I lived for few years in Pondiicherry in early 70s.

Botanical Name as Trichosanthes anguina or T. cucumerina. Its genetic origin is India, but today, the snake gourd is grown all over the world, especially in tropical regions. Being one of the popular vegetables in southern India, many distinct varieties have been developed. Such as : ‘India Short,’ which resembles a large cucumber with nearly white skin; ‘Extra Long Dancer,’ which is about 4 inches in diameter and the most snakelike in appearance; ‘White Glory,’ a medium-long variety with white skin, and ‘Baby,’ a short, white-skinned variety recently developed by the College of Horticulture at the Kerala Agriculture University in India.

Within the past 10 years, many New Hybrids are developed. It adapts well to the vegetarian cookery; it is highly productive as a field crop, and the plant has a long association with Ayurvedic medicine, which employs it as a cooling ingredient. Reduces excessive body heat.


Today due to significant increase in Indian communities in the United States, the gourds can be purchased in most Indian markets year-round, and seeds are available from several U.S. mail-order companies. I never saw one in the Indian grocery stores before 1995.

The snake gourd variety I grew is ‘Extra Long Dancer’
Purchased from Evergreen Seeds in California. Now I switched to the short ones. The long ones break and damaged easily from heavy winds.

Growing Snake Gourds

It is similar to that of the cucumber, but, a few tricks are worth knowing.
First, this is not a vegetable that can be grown on the ground.
You will need a trellis, or a fence to let the plant run free because each vine can grow as long as 15 feet. The support structure must be sturdy, too, because of the fruit’s weight. s. A damp, rainy climate is detrimental. And this year we did not get much. But about 10 of them as we had a wind storm in the last week of may with 60 MPH winds.

If you can grow beans in your area, then you can grow snake gourds. The insects that beans also like the flowers on snake gourds, or simply learn to hand pollinate.

The trick to getting good fruit here is to start the plants early indoors and to plant them out as soon as the weather gets warmer... The larger the cup: I use 6-inch pots so that root disturbance is minimal./Now I changed to the largest Styrofoam cup from McDonald for super sized soft drink. I use them for growing all vegetable seeds now. This will give them the head start they need in order to set fruit during the hottest part of the summer.

The gourds are ready to eat when they are young, about 40 to 50 days from planting, depending on the weather. For an average of 10 years you have good yields for 7 years.

These days I prefer the shorter varieties.

The ripe seeds themselves are dark gray, should not be consumed by humans due to complex compounds with strong emetic and purgative properties.
Saving seed season to season, discard any that are light-colored or white; they will not germinate. Even in India, germination rates for the best seeds hover at about 60 percent. So always keep on hand more seeds than you think you need, and plant extra for precaution. Furthermore, save your seeds every year or buy them.

Snake Gourd Seed Sources
Evergreen Seeds
www.evergreenseeds.com

The Banana Tree
Easton, Pa
www.banana-tree.com

Sand Mountain Herbs
www.sandmountainherbs.com
Shipper of Indian vegetables. Need to buy a box. Also sell Donda, tindora roots.
http://www.fruits-vegetables-spices.com/ivygourd.htm/

http://www.seedsofindia.com/catalog.php These people sell all Indian seeds including Andhra Dosa kai(the yellow one) and 50 day early yield vegetable seeds suitable for short growing season.

Comments

Many people say growing snake gourds is difficult. They say they tried and gave up.

I grew 2 varieties from ever green seeds and also the short ones... One need at least 2 plants All plants must be of the same type .Early flowers may be 70% male flowers. The reason why I prefer the short ones is because if there are heavy winds the long ones break and simply fly away.

Start the seeds indoors in the first week of April. All gourds have either male or female flowers. This variety produces yields in 50 days. Ever green seeds / India seeds is a good place to get 50 day Bitter melon seeds, and egg plant varieties. I do not want to wait 75 days.

One can easily grow 15 fruits minimum per plant here Need to emphasize the need for a strong trellis again and again.
If there are No bugs or bees-there will be no pollination and no fruits either. Learn pollinating by hand.

Give them good general fertilizer. I prefer organic and compost. After 30 days change to high phosphorous fertilizer such as rose fertilizer or bulb fertilizer. If one is lucky one can easily get 40 of them. They freeze well. I have fond memories of a dish my grand mother used to make with yogurt and shredded coconut. My wife says she started hating this vegetable as her mother fed her every day for a month after she delivered our first son in India.

Since this plant is a vigorous grower, needs some good space for roots at least 2 cubic foot of soil. A friend of mine, an expert in container gardening grows it in pots. She says it needs at least a 5 gallon bucket and larger is better. Larger storage plastic tote boxes if drilled holes in the bottom work fine.

For trellis one can use the in expensive nylon strong net. It is cheap costs only 50 cents per foot and one need at least 6 feet.
Fence posts, electrical conduit pipes can be used to make a trellis.

I hope this will shorten the learning curve

I've added a small block of achchu vellam and a few sea shells to my compost bin :) thanks for the tips! :)

Do keep posting with more tips!

I guess "acchu vellam "means jaggery block.

I stayed only for 3 years in Pondi for my PG in early 70s. My tamil is limited.
I lived in Andhra, Maharashtra and Karnataka.Living in the US from 74.
One can also shave with a peeler the jaggery block.It will go longway and spread farther.

Now a days have only Jasmines, Night queen and lillies apart from annuals. There are 13 different types of Jasmines, But only few are long bloomers.
I will post few more on container gardening, raised beds, square foot gardening and in detail about some plants I am growing now.

regards

When we started serious gardening in early eighties, after education (PG- Fellowships etc), residencies, settling in career, purchasing a house,

Started with in the ground planting on a grand scale.

Most of my colleagues are physicians. It is a kind of therapy, like having pets, growing some thing we can eat, relaxation, nostalgic memories with the plants we were associated with.

When some one asks me why you are spending so much money on gardening, I have a simple answer.

It is cheaper than playing golf, better and cheaper than having a girl friend, and gossiping.

But now we all downsized. We moved to a smaller house, smaller yard, and clay soil. Like we left our parents, my kids have their own life and me and most of friends changed to container gardening, raised bed gardening and square foot gardening. Our needs are also less. Now we grow what we like. We do not have an acre and half of garden like we did earlier. One can call it an empty nest, age syndrome.

Choosing a container. (Pot)

Containers come in different sizes and shapes.
I prefer square ones if available as there is no wastage of space like circular one. More area

I prefer to buy them when they are on sale. Usually in fall.
Containers are expensive

There are many alternatives.

Here in the US well made durable Pickle buckets from Burger King or Shoney (any restaurant) are free. Usually they throw them Garbage. Just ask the manager arrange a time so that you can pick up. They are five gallon containers.Don't get lard (animal fat buckets (to make French fries) unless you do not mind cleaning the greasy animal fat.

Large containers 10 gallon totes are selling for 3-99$ in K. Mart, Big- lots and many places. They are well made storage boxes, Round or rectangle. All one need to do make holes (Drill them)

Either in the bottom

Or

Half an inch away (UP) from the bottom. Fill the bottom with Styrofoam peanut packing chips for an inch to half an inch.
It facilitates drainage and helps in aerating the soil. The roots also can get some air.

Cover the holes with coffee filter or a piece of small cotton cloth (T-shirt).This helps in preventing the potting soil to leak out, and critters and bugs gain access

Since the containers are kept out side in the sun, gets hot, fade out-and crack- to prevent that friend mine uses e uses armor all (a cheap plastic preservative)

Size depends upon the root mass. And spread of roots.
If you want the plants to have family planning one or two fruits one can use a smaller container.

For Methi got a long tap root system. Different people pull them at different stages of growth. If you pull the plant along with the root at 6 leaf stage 6 inches deep pot is fine, or deeper if you let it grow and cut leaves and stems at 8 inches.

Cilantro (Coriander)

I do not use the seeds from Indian grocery shops. They bolt quickly (flower and seed).

I only grow Kothmeer with the seeds from
Evergreen or from Park seeds. This Dhania grows to 12-20 inches in Height, cut the leaves and side branches as you need. If allowed it will grow up to 20 Inches tall.They are not significantly different in taste from Indian coriander. I have no idea how old are the seeds sold in Indian grocery shops. These Dhania seeds are from the cultivars grown for seeds.

The seeds from parks or evergreen sources are good. Try them, you may like one more than the other. They have 4 different varieties.

But the cheaper source is the one can buy from Hispanic or Mexican grocery stores or American super markets. Cheaper in large bottles.

My first attempt at growing Coriander is a disaster. A friends father, a farmer told us to soak the seeds in warm water or crush them between both palms. The Dhania seeds are smaller than mustard seeds. The brown stuff is only a shell. They germinated fast with this method, but grew only to 6 inches, and slow.

Now we switched to cilantro seeds.
More later.

Quite interesting! Will try and check my local BK, McD's if they have pickle bucket kind of things they throw away. I am constantly giving plants to all my friends and as a result constantly looking for pots in all sizes!

Hi venkatappiah,
I enjoyed reading ur posts, waiting for more..
Is it possible to grow snake gourd in containers? how much sun light do they need?
I tried tomatoes and eggplants this yr, eggplants had poor yield, and full of insects, is it becos of growing in containers?
Kz

This is the one I use for trellis netting.

It is re usable, cheap and even hold 10 LOKI, (SORA, Doodhi, Bottle guard) and it is cheap. And it is easy to install.
http://www.enchantingsweetpeas.com/p...-Trellis-41363
Trellis netting

this unobtrusive trellising supplies perfect support. Lightweight plastic netting with 6-inch squares has UV stabilizers for longer life. It can be simply attached to a wall, fence or post.Trellis comes seven feet high. Order it the length you need or cut it to suit your garden space.
Size Price
6.5'x 8' $6.25
6.5'x 12' $8.25
6.5'x 20' $10.25
6.5' x 50' $20.25

Mel’s tomato tower. Trellis frame I use

http://www.squarefootgardening.com

This is the one I use. Good for all climbers, Snake gourd to bitter melon and even tomatoes .Purchase one. Take it to the local hardware store. And ask them to give you the connectors and the pipe cut for the recommended length. These cutting charges are nominal. You save some money and shipping charges. They are reusable, you can dismantle them, store them, and take them with you wherever you or relocate. They also look good and classy.

Good source of Tindora (donda) roots-Gentlemens toes.

These plants are difficult to get although appears pricey well worth for me. Easy to propagate

1 qrt Tindora $15.00 plus $5.00 packing plus $5.95 Priority Mail $25.95 please remit a money order to A.Smith 7341 121st Terrace Nth.Largo, FL.33773 Cordially Alan
asmith2@tampabay.rr.com
He also sells pan leaves plant (beetle leaves for Thamboolam) I never tried that. But few of friends have that.
regards

Is it possible to grow snake gourd in containers? how much sun light do they need?

I tried tomatoes and eggplants this yr, eggplants had poor yield, and full of insects, is it becos of growing in containers?

I will post in few days.It takes time to type and need to compare with few other friends.

http://www.logees.com/

Good source for Jasmine plants and cesturnum(night queen-Raat Ki Rani).

It is also a good source for curry leaf(kari pilla, Karivepaku plants)

The stories about night queen are like this
The chineese emperors used to eat the fried flowers of Night queen before they visit the queens and courtesans.Probably it acts like a floral Viagra.

Greetings Anouskha

What plants you give away and what plants are popular with Indians in Dublin?

A Chinese proverb

If you want to be happy for few hours-- get a bottle and drink.
If you want to be happy for few days-- get a pig roasted.
If you want to be happy for a month or two Get married.
If you want to be married throughout your life ---do gardening!

Curry leaf plant

Murraya Koenigii (Curry Leaf plant)
The English term curry is of Indian origin: In Tamil, a South Indian language, the word kari means “soup” or “sauce”; this is also the basis of the Tamil name for curry-leaves, kariveppilai which contains ilai [ “leaf”.In Telugu another south Indian laungauge it is called as Karivepaku ( aku= means leaf).The north Indain Kari patta is an adoptation of south Indian name

The curry leaf tree comes in three different cultivars varieties and now since the last 5 years 3 new Hybrid varieties are available in India.
The New Hybridized versions grow fast, and are disease resistant, but have less flavor. These are used by market gardeners and farmers,

The Curry Leaves have strong scent and were used in Indian, Laotian, Malaysian, Sri Lankan and Cambodian and vietnameese cooking.

It is a native of South India and Sri Lanka, It spread to Malaysia, Cambodia, Singapore, Africa, Fiji Islands, West Indies, Suriname (South America) and now to North America.
Indians took this plant where ever they migrated (along with Tamarind, holy basil, jasmine varieties, mango ,Rajani gandha and guava Etc).It spread to Vietnam and Cambodia by Buddhist monks.
In USA the demand exceeds the supply. Now due to the recent surge in the Indian population a 6 inch plant is selling for 15 dollars an 18 inch plant sells for 40 dollars. Many nurseries are taking orders for next year.Many Americans are also growing it for the scent and it is a small compact tree in southern zsones.

It is a small tree which is a great looking in your back yard at it has great looking and aromatic leaves. The leaves look like the ones you buy at the grocery store. Dwarf variety does not grow as tall but the branches spread. Light green Leaves are the same size as the regular variety but it has an aroma of its own.
GAMTHI variety is the most fragrant very thick leaf structure but slowest of all the curry trees. All the three varieties of curry leaf plant differ in the intensity of flavor .Look at the leaf edges .The leaves without the serrated edges are the one most flavor and they are smaller and darker in color
The slowest growing small leaf one is the most fragrant one. It is available only in Tamil Nadu Sri Lanka and Kerala. In North America one can get it in the Sri Lankan Bazaar in Toronto, Canada
Used in cooking, there is nothing like picking fresh curry leaves just the right amount when you need them. This leaf extract have cholesterol reducing power. Many Sri Lankan are using this extract with little brown rice and very little milk of coconut or regular Skim milk have cooked make thick green drink (Kolakada). Many Sri Lankan are using this extract for lowering to cholesterol. Believe it is good for the stomach.

The traditional use of the curry leaf tree to treat diabetes has attracted a great deal of interest. Special compounds have been found which might make it an effective new medicine for diabetes sufferers.So far it seems to reduce the post prandial spike in blood sugar.

Growing curry leaf plant in North America and Canada
They all have one thing in common. They like full sun, very well drained soil which should be on the dry side and they need fertilizer during summer months .If you live in south it is a care free tree.

Fertilize weekly during the growing season with Peters 20-20-20.Peters fertilizers are preferred by nursery men and growers than Miracle grow as it got less salt residue.
Allow soil to dry between watering
Water( water at room temperature, not straight cold water from tap) sparingly during the winter months and do not fertilize
Ideal growing temperature 65 - 90 F
Minimal winter temperature 60 F

Propagation:

Murraya koenigii are propagated by growing the small suckers from the base of the tree, by root cutting, or by seed Propagation
If you have some very fresh curry leaves, you can try to root some as stem cuttings. Take some of the twigs which are not very floppy and green nor very hard and woody (this stage is called semi-ripe), and remove most of their lower leaves. Cut the stem cleanly at a node, and push the cutting a few centimeters into a 50/50 mix of potting compost and aquarium gravel, with about 3 leaves above the surface. You can dip it in rooting hormone available every where.

Put the cuttings in a covered pot, in a warm light place out of direct sunlight. Rooting will take about 3 weeks.In three months it will be established ready to move to a bigger pot.

Methods of separation of suckers

Insert a sharp knife about 2-4 inches around the baby plant and cut around the plant in a circle or square to divide the parallel running roots. Then move the knife under the plant and cut any remaining roots at the bottom of the plant. Once it is loose, carefully dig it out. Wet the root with water and dip it in Rooting Hormone Powder, which you can buy from a plant nursery. Then pot it in a container, using the best potting soil. Use a container about 1 gallon size. The container should have a couple of holes at the bottom for the water to escape. No need to put any stones around the hole. You may just fill the pot with the soil to the half mark. Place the baby plant in the center of the pot on top of the soil, and fill up with potting soil. Put several Styrofoam peanuts in the bottom for effective drainage. (You should do that for all tropical plants) Cover the plant with soil up to the level where it stayed under dirt. Give the plant a drink of water, and keep it either inside the house or outside in a shaded area. If you let it stand in the sun the baby plant will dry out and die. Check the soil frequently, and when dry water the plant. When you see tender leaf sprouting, the plant has established. This may take a while, for the root development takes place first.

Now you may start feeding fertilizer to the plant. For potted plant, use a water soluble fertilizer, like peters, with the composition ofNitrogen, potassium and phosphorus (13-13-13 or 20-20-20)). I prefer to give a very dilute solution half the strength as suggested by the label whenever I water the plant. When the plant grows bigger, you need to repot it in a bigger container. This can be done during the fall, so that the plant can get over the shock by the time spring approaches. Do not let the plant have many root suckers. These new plants are competing for the limited resources of space, water and fertilizers. Separate them and you can always give them to your friends.

How to care for a plant in an area where it freezes during winter:
In areas where it freezes in winter, you must bring the plant inside the house, before the first freeze. You can keep the pot near a window where it will get sunshine. You can bring it outside when the last freeze is over.

In areas, where the winter is very mild, you may plant them on the ground. But mulch the base of the plant to 4 inches during winter to be on the safe side. This will protect the roots from freezing. You may cover the plant with a thick cloth first and then a plastic cover on top, if any freeze is predicted. .
I have seen 5 feet tall plants in Anchorage, Alaska. They used a humidifier, grow lights (compact fluorescent lights 12 dollars at Wal-Mart).Even their jasmines are blooming.

Diseases

The only infestation seems to be a scale that seems systemic to the plant once it is inside for about two months. They grow on the underside of the leaves along the vein line. Initially, these scale are very small, black and almost unnoticeable because of their transparent, part of the leaf appearance. They continue to grow and multiple to such an extent that you cannot get rid of them adequately by hand. If you can not see them put a clean white paper under the leaves and shake the plant. Look for the dark granules on the paper.

On a warm winter day, at least once during our winters, I take them outside for a hand spraying of insecticidal soap and an hour or so later a water wash before bringing them in again. There is no need to use toxic Sevin or parathion...

One can also use a good non toxic spray to kill the bugs using a teaspoon of Listerine(mouthwash liquid) and few drops of dishwashing detergent to a gallon of water and spray the plant.
Some tricks; the flavor of the leaves is reduced if it grows in potting soil and miracle grow. Add some compost. The flavor comes from phosphorous and sulphor. In natural habitat sulphor is available from dead leaves and dung. But for potted plants one fourth of a teaspoonful of sulphor will enhance. Alternately one can add a teaspoonful of molasses to the water twice a year.

The soil Ph should be slightly acidic. The safest way is to add a spoon full of apple cider vinegar to a gallon of water few times in a year.. One good fertilizer for aromatic plants is 2% milk instead of throwing the plastic milk can swish it with water and add it to your plants.

Occasionally one can buy 2% milk powder or skim milk powder on sale close to expiration date. This is a good nitrogen source and got some amino acids which the plants can use directly.

Grand mother’s tale. If the curry leaf plants suddenly starts grow rapidly, you may move or relocate.
collected and and from my own experience.I have all the three varieties .

]Tindora, Donda Kai, Kovakai

Ivy gourd, Scarlet gourd, Gentlemen’s Toes, Dondakai, Kovakai, Tendli, Telacucha Kunthru, Tinda

Coccinia grandis,

History: It is mentioned in Sanskrit early literature. The ripe fruit is called as” Bimba”

Bimbadhari “One with lips like the red ripe fruits of Bimba.”( Draupadi is supposed to be a Bimbadhari)

In Telugu literature the lips of a pretty woman are compared to DONDApandu lati pedalu(lips) like the lips of ripe donda fruit..

I got a plant in first in 1983.This plant Got a story. My friend got this plant from India in 1978.

As the customs do not allow vegetables, fruits and seeds he concealed it in his sons diaper.(baby at that time). He propagated it and gave it others.He says it is well fertilized with his sons!

Before that I asked, requested and literally begged another person, a grower to give me some rootsof Tindira plant. He refused and said “Tindora roots !No way”


It is a tropical vine grown for its small edible fruits. The may be eaten immature and green,. When the fruits mature are deep red. The young shoots and leaves may also be eaten as greens

It is a no brainier to grow in south and I saw it growing like a weed in Hawaii.

Tindora is a market crop in the Dade county, Fl, Yuma Arizona and in Southern California.

It is also imported from Dominican republic.Research is being done at Purdue University Indiana.

(Their website is a good source of information).

Several different cultivars are available varying in size from thumb to Index finger ,green, light green and green with vertical stripes and lemon green. There is no hybridization as it is easy to grow in tropics and sub tropics.Not much of documentation is available.Some of the cultivars have a different taste.Some are slightly sour(pulupu), some are slightly bitter.

Being propagated by asexual reproduction it needs adequate root mass--- At least one quart.The one which your friend gave you is probably a small root. The plant prefers to spend its energy time in developing good root structure first.

Planting to yield time. For tindora is 75 days. If the roots are well grown and if there is a small vine already formed at the time of planting it will be easier and shorter..



Few things can be done

Soak the roots in a dilute solution of rooting Hormone for half an hour

Alternately soak the roots in a solution of super thrive for an hour. For few days feed the roots with super thrive.This is what I do and it is not absolutely necessary.

For over wintering plant it in a good sized pot and give minimal amount of water. Over watering will cause root rot.

Soil for the best Growth 50% potting mix ,the rest with and compost manure.I also add a generous amount of vermiculite.

Add to the mix a table spoonful of garden lime. Feed it regularly with peters 20/20/20 or 13/13/13 at half 1/3 strength initially to give it a boost. I add to the soil rose or bulb fertilizer or garden tone.Phosphorous is needed for flower and fruit production.

I do not use Miracle grow as some people say it gives a metallic taste. I am a semi organic gardener..Needs sun and make a trellis. It can be grown in containers like 10 gallon tote which one can get it K-mart.Please note US 3 gallon is equal to 3.3 liters. Imperial gallon in Europe is higher

The best way to winterize plant is keep it in a Styrofoam Ice chest sold for 3 dollars.at Gas stations .Make holes in the bottom for drainage.Styro Foam cooler chests are cheap and also Insulates.Plastic containers do not insulate. This way youminimize the risk of loosing a plant. in winter

Any one can grow it in south. But some addle work is needed.if you live in North..



Propagation

It is easy. I layer some of the branches in a pot, cover it with soil and put some stones on that.I also use propagation chamber for stem cuttings.

Propagate them and give them to your friends.You wont have to say like Mr. Patel in 1983 ”Tindora.No way”

You can buy this from this source. They sell good plants

http://www.farmersmarketonline.com/tropicaltrees2.htm


[/tscii]

Growing egg plants and snake gourd in containers

Seeds: I buy the early varieties.50 day from transplanting to fruit production.

In the year 2005 a new award winning egg plant resistant to disease, with great yields is available. I have not yet tried that. Available from tomato grower’s website.

I most often give the seeds to the local green house, they charge a nominal amount. I give them 32 OZ Jumbo soft drink Styrofoam cups Fill it up with a seed starting mix. I do not like the small plastic seed starting trays. I want the plant to have a well established root system to be ahead in the game.

How many plants?

These are broad generalizations with the usual disclaimer. Two egg plant plants per person are enough. Your mileage may vary
2 Snake gourd plants per a family of two are more than enough.
Snake gourd is a vigorous grower with large leaves. Takes space.
Needs trellis. Due to shade other plants may not get sun light.

Which type of snake gourd?
The new short variety.

The long 4 feet variety raises the curiosity of passers by. They break and get damaged easily if there is heavy rain with windstorm, Thunders, tornado and what not. One year all the long Snake gourd fruits broke in to pieces and flew away.

One can expect 25-35 fruits per 2 plants. I give the extra ones to only those people who can say thanks. It is my time and labor. No thanks or a word of appreciation nothing next year.

Size of containers 5 gallon planters or 10 gallon totes 4 dollars at K-mart.
For some reason I have no explanation 2 plants in a 10 gallon container give better yields than a single plant in a five gallon container.

I have 2 plants of the same variety to help in pollination.
One US gallon equals 3.3 Liters. Imperial gallon is much larger.

Preparing the containers.

Containers need drainage wholes at least of the size of a 10 cent coin 5 of them for 5 gallons 8 of them for 10 gallons. The roots need Oxygen, and the roots should not be drowned and water should not stagnate.

If one wishes to prevent cracking of the plastic containers from hot sun, one can give a coat of armor all a plastic preservative.
One can cover the drainage wholes with a piece of cotton cloth, paper coffee filter or a mesh so that solid will not leak out.
Drainages holes can be in the bottom or in the sides half an inch to quarter of an inch from the bottom.

Fill the bottom with half inch layer of Styrofoam peanut packing chips.

continue later.

Egg plants in containers

They do look attractive specially the slender green, white and purple varieties. There is no need to hide them in the back of the house.
They can be placed in the front along with flowering plants. The slender versions are better and more suitable for containers than the large oval heavy egg plants.

To be ahead in the game

Start them in the home 2 months early or
as mentioned before give the seeds Etc to a green house.
Be sure to harden off the seedlings.
Be sure the soil in the containers is warm. Cover the soil in the container with a black plastic (garbage bag) so that the soil will get warm.
If the night temperatures for some reasons drop down,
Or if there is heavy rain, thunder storm cover them with a plastic sheet or bring the container to a shelter (I wish I could do that with snake gourd, bitter melon etc)

Harvesting

Pick them ahead of time.
The outer skin should be glossy and shiny.
If it is dull it is past its time.
Put your finger on the fruit and press it hard. If you can make a depression and if the depression stays the same it is tender.

Use sharp scissors or a knife, cut them with a part of the stem.
Do not yank them off.

Even if one fruit sets the seed the plant will slow down.
Keep the planter elevated. Not directly on the soil. See the bugs do not gain access through the drainage holes. One can also place a garbage bag (plastic) under the container.

Initially to keep and make the soil warm, one can use aluminum foil as a mulch surrounding the plant .It will reflect light also. Cheap aluminum foil or shiny gift film (not paper) wrap will do. Being smooth some bugs may not be able crawer penetrate on it. Later mulch it with wood chips. Some of my friends use white rock (pebbles) they get warm during the day and radiate heat at night.

Egg plants are bitter. Why?
Are they are like hydrogen gas, colorless odorless and tasteless?

Uneven watering. Not adequate water when the fruits are set.
Excessive use of chemical
Fertilizers. Some people believe MG gives a metallic taste. Flavor depends upon phosphorous, sulphur and minerals.

Bugs, Beetles, aphid’s potato beetles,Tobaco mosaic virus.
You may not be able to avoid them totally, but you can manage them successfully (every thing under control.). I have all of them here, but keep them under control.
About fertilizers and bug control I will post later.
Generally healthy plants are not affected by the bugs; even if they are attacked they can recover fast.

Over crowding. Not enough of air circulation, wetting the plant in the evening. If the leaves get wet they attract bugs. If wetting the leaves is unavoidable, water the plants in the mornings so that they can dry of quickly..

I do foliar feed the plants, but that is a different game.
Using the garden soil and not using the planting mix. Excessive use of Nitrogen. I do not use any chemical pesticides. We grow them to eat them and not to sell them.

Thanks Venkatappiah :)

I give out Tulsi plants, strawberry plants, mint plants, rose cuttings and a few cactii varieties to my Indian and non Indian friends :)

I grow mint, cabbage, manathakkaLi keerai (a variety of green), tarragon, beet root, mEthi, French beans, mustard, tomato, corriander...

and my flowering plants include Rose, jaathi malli (Jasmine), kanakambaram, sweet williams, sweet pea, mari gold, sun flower, forget me not, dahlia, and few bulbs like tulips, daffodils, etc

Plus I grow a lot of cactii..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anoushka

Thanks Venkatappiah :)

I give out Tulsi plants, strawberry plants, mint plants, rose cuttings and a few cactii varieties to my Indian and non Indian friends :)

I grow mint, cabbage, manathakkaLi keerai (a variety of green), tarragon, beet root, mEthi, French beans, mustard, tomato, corriander...

and my flowering plants include Rose, jaathi malli (Jasmine), kanakambaram, sweet williams, sweet pea, mari gold, sun flower, forget me not, dahlia, and few bulbs like tulips, daffodils, etc

Plus I grow a lot of cactii..

---

Anou,

:thumbsup:

Enaku 4 mint & money plant-a valarkarathukulla pothum pothumnu aagiduthu... :roll:

dev: I love gardening :) athu ennamO namma thOtathu kai samachu saapidurathula iruka santhOshame thani :)

But athukku space-um vENume, neenga apartment-la irukirathunaala athu kashtam illaya?

Thankyou Venkatappiah for the detailed explanation abt growing snakegourd in containers.
Kz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anoushka

dev: I love gardening :) athu ennamO namma thOtathu kai samachu saapidurathula iruka santhOshame thani :)

But athukku space-um vENume, neenga apartment-la irukirathunaala athu kashtam illaya?

---

That's true... aamam, aprt thaan iruken... have a decent sized balcony... so konjam pots vechu irukken...athula appapo mint, cori, methi-nu try pannuven... aanal ethuvum sariyay valaralai... guess it's time I change the soil...

Jasmines

http://toptropicals.com/This is probably the best source for buy Jasmine plants. They have all of them. Their plants are excellent and they ship overseas.

Their instructions for growing Jasmines are superb and I follow them literally to the word. Their plants are better than what we can purchase from some Indian vendors.

You will find instructions for growing jasmines here.
http://toptropicals.com/html/toptrop...sambac.htm#faq

If you look in the alphabetical list under J you will find a list of jasmines.
I also have Night queen (cestrum, Raat ki Rani).

With some reluctance my wife accepted Night queen. Now she feels fine with night queen. Her cousin sister died from snake bite (cobra) when she was picking up some flowers from night queen plant in India. (University professor’s quarters. - Not in a rural area).

I used to have few cacti before, but my better half and her friends ganged up upon me showing me some feng shui books, growing plants with thorns and shap pricky edges brings bad luck and sorrow. She won(most of the time she wins).

I do grow the dwarf variety of marigold plants next to vegetables in containers as they look pretty and marigold roots are toxic to nematodes in the soil and keep the soil healthy.
She developed a kind of phobia and dislike for Night queen for a short time.

If some one asks me what jasmines you prefer.
Giving ranking on the basis of fragrance, hardiness, long time blooming. Not growing rampant and easy to propagate I prefer jasmine samba(Jasmine arabicum), the common Indian Jasmine
(jathi Malli),

cestrum(night queen) and Jasmine Grand duke of Tuscany.
I prefer the new hybrid form as it produces a bunch of flowers some times as big as a rose with good fragrance.
One can raise some jasmines from seeds also.

Carolina jasmine and Madagascar Jasmine from Park seeds (five seeds for 3 dollars)

Easy to grow but they are second in rank, to the above.
Jasmines are easy to propagate. I used to propagate them by the traditional soil layering technique.

That is keeping a branch in potting soil (bend it, in a pot) and putting some rocks on it as a weight. One should keep at least 2 nodes for about 2 months here in USA zone 6.

Now I switched to an easier, failure proof, cheap propagation chamber. If any one is interested I will post a link and my experience with it. It takes about 20 minutes to make one, easy all you need is a shoe box9sweater box 2-3 dollars), seed starter mix and a clay pot without a hole( deepavali pramida-the one in which we put oil and light a wick)

This year I propagated about 11 plants. Next year more they will go my friends and to the temple for fund raising (take one and drop a five dollar bill in the Hundi).

The common mistakes are using garden soil in pots, instead of good potting soil, over watering and using a big pot at the first instance rather than changing the pots as they grow. And improper high nitrogen fertilizers.

The lilies(indian Rajani Gandha, single tuberose) are disappointing.
Short blooming time.Need to bring inside the home and dry the roots .

Dev: try changing the soil, adding compost or some plant food :) I used to do container gardening when I was in an apartment too.

Actually that is when I discovered that Tulsi plant stem is strong only if there is some amount of soil in addition to the compost in the pot! :)

Will try it out, Anou... thanks a lot...:)

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...926870.html?75

This thread gives good information about container mixes.

It is oriented to North American gaderners.Vermiculite, perlite, organic planter mixes (soil less) are available in US, but may not be else where.

In my case reverse,We down sized very thing.
Moved from big house to small house, from huge, an acre and half garden to square foot garden (raised beds)

And container gardening. The needs are much less. Decision to spend not more than an hour and half per week in garden etc.
This seems to be the case with most of us living in US from early seventies.

Even becoming creative Oat meal dosa, Ragi and Jowar dosa (complex carbohydrates) Gave up traditional use of rice,No more fried food, changed to using virgin olive oil etc.

Hi Venkatappiah,
I used to visit that site often, but never able to find pine bark fines, so left the idea of making my own container soil mixes. Can i reuse the potting mix ? or should i buy new mix every year? can i mix some compost to the old potting mix and reuse it next yr?

One can rejuvenate the soil once or twice. I think the key is drainage. Does it drain the water well or the roots get drowned in water?

If the plant is grown in the container is infected with bugs and fungus I discard it. Add the compost. Pile The soil will carry the eggs and spores.
Once or twice I rejuvenate it.

This is what I do.

Take the soil out empty the container on a large trash bag.
Wash the container. If the drainage holes are small I enlarge it. I cover the holes in the bottom with a coffee filter or a mesh so that the soil won’t wash out.

To prevent the plastic cracking out, I just wipe with Armor all a plastic preservative.

I break the soil in the container add one fourth manure, little new planting mix add fertilizer add some lime usually garden lime, gypsum or crushed sea shells.keep it loose add water little and cover with a transparent plastic. The soil gets heated and the bioavailability will increase if one does it in the fall.

In a soil I grew members of Solanacea such as peppers, tomato and egg plants, I grow some other plants again, but I will not grow these plants again till I change the soil completely.

Usually I buy this Stuff from large nurseries or green houses. It is cheaper, if you buy a large bag. You get three times more for twice the price. They do not have any fancy printing, Just plain white bags.

Where are you located ?

I am located in NJ, searched the homedepot and few nurseries here for pine bark fine to make Al's potting mix. now i have 1 big bag of MG, it does drain well. i will add some compost,lime and gypsum to it.

I want to bring mint indoors and grow some greens( fenugreek) indoors for the winter.

you will add only either lime or gypsum. one of these 2, not both.
Fenu greek will grow easily.
wall mart got grow lamp for 15 dollars including the fixture.
I lived for 3 years 1977 in west orange, New Jersey.

This is what I do with Methi.Feel free to improvise it.

I use Indian grocery purchased methi ( fenugreek)seeds. Soak then in warm water. If water gets cold I change it, soak over night.
I use large sweater boxes, not very tall about 2 dollars each in wall mart, Dollar stores, big lots etc. I use three of them. Successive planting once in every 2 weeks. Methi looks like a lot, but when cooked, it looks smaller.

When thinning I pull them with roots or I cut them with scissors. In winter I water only with warm water and I use either a fluorescent light or grow light.

Still in January and Feb the growth rate is slow. I use any organic fertilizer, gardentone, plant tone etc. some times peters.

It is a pleasure to some thing growing in winter months.
In winter I use aluminum baking pan, the one made up of aluminum foil as a a tray. It reflects light.

Thankyou Venkatappiah, will try methi as u say. I thought of keeping the plants near a southeast facing window, which has plenty of sunlight. if that doesn't work then will get a grow light.

Did u try making ur own potting mix? how is the result?

Just simplified every thing.
I use potting mix purchased from a nursery,
Add some compost (manure), some vermiculite or pearlite, some organic fertilizer usually epsoma brand available every where (I buy at Lowes). Give a boost with peters once or twice.
The results are 95% as good as the best complicated practices.

Thankyou !

Thankyou !

Thankyou !

Growing lilies.

These are the same fragrant tubular white flowers with which people make garlands. In North India they call it as Rajani Gandha.
Even my four year old grand son identified them in a movie (satellite when the hero and heroine dance in the fields of lilies flowers).

He said these are the same flowers we have!

I have mixed feelings about this. Sure they have a glorious intoxicating Fragrance. Perhaps that is the reason why they make garlands during marriages and decorate the nuptial bed. They bloom once some times twice a year.

This is called as Mexican tuberose and there are 2 varieties, single and double. I only grew the single variety and this year it bloomed twice. It needs lots water, sun and good rose fertilizer. In colder areas one needs to get the bulbous roots inside dry them and store them. Or move the pot inside.

It is a tough call like Kankambaram, great nostalgic value. The show lasts only for a week to two weeks.My wife likes them and that is all that matters.It is also the national flower of Bangla desh

http://www.oldhousegardens.com/bulb.asp?Cat=SP&page=2
Polianthes tuberosa, ‘MEXICAN SINGLE’ TUBEROSE
You can get them from here. This is not the cheapest place, but the bulbs are larger and bigger. Some of the e-bay sources are not that good as they are smaller roots.

The old house gardens. Send good instructions. There are other cheaper sources but I have not tried them. Easy to grow in containers put 3 of them together. The stem needs to be stalked as it grows tall.

I can smell them even when I am in the garage.
May be if you get them you will recollect your early days of marriage!

CROSSANDRA kanakambaram fire cracker plant
(Crossandra infundibuliformis)

Kanakambaram is an important flower crop grown on a commercial scale in south India. Grown in many homes. For most of us settled in US it is a nostalgic flower. You see them in south India, Malaya and Sri Lanka.Jasmine and kanakabaram are used in making a mala through out south. Most of my Indian friends have them.

Seed sources
One can get the yellow red and the orangish flower cultivar seeds from EBay Just go to E-bay and type crossandra.

Easy to grow as an annual and in southern, warmer part of USA as a perennial .Can is planted in the ground and grown in containers. Varieties

The common variety is the one producing orange-colored flowers. Varieties producing yellow flowers are also grown home gardens. These are perennials and are propagated by cuttings or seed. The seed got a short life, but better than curry leaf. I obtained my first seeds from India and later from my friends in Florida.

Seedlings can be transplanted in to the ground. Seeds can be sown directly in the soil if the temperature is warm. Most of the time it reseeds it self even in my zone 6. It is declared as a weed in the state of Utah. Great house plant, too! When you put water on the seed pods of this plant, they POP out, sometimes as far away at 12 feet!

When I was a kid I used to put the seed pods in the mouth wet it with saliva and have fun. Hence the name fire cracker plant in Florida, Texas etc it grows like a weed.

Seeds and Sowing

Seeds are sown in /may June when the weather gets warm Vigorous growth of the seedlings can be promoted by applying week starter solution or 1/4th strength miracle grow. twice a week. The seedlings are transplanted at a spacing of 30-50 cm. The seedlings will be ready for transplanting with in40- 50-days after sowing. in cold climates

Manures and Fertilizers

Mixing cow manure /compost /humus to the posting soil is good enough. I do add some rose fertilizer or bulb fertilizer to all my potting mixes for fruits or flowers and feed nitrogen only through fish emulsion or miracle grow.
Yield

from the second/third month after planting. . Flowers will be available for picking for 5 months in a year for us USA zone 6.I like to have them in partial shade and not in full sun.

Last time when I came back from India I brought a tiny little kanakambaram plant from home... now I have a four feet plant sitting in a tiny pot in my living room and it is begining to flower... I wonder what temperatures it will withstand and if I can plant it on the ground outside in winter?

Lift the pot of kanakambaram.Look at the drainage holes.
If you see the roots, it needs repotting in to a bigger pot.

Since this Kanakambaram plant grew to 48 inches, it got a good/great vegetative growth.
It needs help at blooming time as blooming and fruiting needs lot of energy.
Change to a high phosphorous fertilizer. The one with a higher middle number (NPK).

My plants died down in winter. Here the temp can go down to Minus five (F).
Few years it came back. Once the seeds that fell germinated in spring.
I won’t plant it outside. I preserve the seeds or a plant inside my home.(Safety precaution)

Kanakambaram is very easy to propagate from stem cuttings and from seeds. Little rooting compound will help.
Now I have about 10+ jasmine cuttings in my propagation chamber. Some will go the temple and some to my friends.

When you go Madras try to get the seeds of pink variety, and the new hybrid Delhi...Here the plants are available, expensive about 20 dollars, but not the seeds.

Watch out for bulb sales. At the end of season one can get them for half price.

Thank you very much :)

I will be going to Madras in December and I will surely look out for the seeds of pink ones.

I should do something about my jasmine plant too... Loads of friends have asked for jasmine cuttings... when is the right time do do propagation of jasmine?