Care to explain what are such misdeeds that those innocent people did to lose their lives for no fault of theirs ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
Embracing Islam ?
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Care to explain what are such misdeeds that those innocent people did to lose their lives for no fault of theirs ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
Embracing Islam ?
Dear Komba,Quote:
Originally Posted by komban
The direction of the Topic you are dragging me is too far out of the way.
It is a SENSITIVE QUESTION.. I am not interested to elaborate on...
...because my answer, even if it be based on truth... may hurt any one or the other segments of the Global Society... our Brethren.
Your previous Question itself is out of topic... a digression of the Thread.
However I did not ignore your valid question... and briefly touched the answer... by stating...
..Suicidal past actions of ALL CONCERNED...
Yes I reiterate the Words..."ALL CONCERNED"...
... irrespective of any Religion or any such vivi-sections of the Global Society.
This Question of Human-woes is UNENDINGLY irking in the minds of all the Social-minded mankind...
So I valued your heartfelt humanitarian feelings for the Suffering masses...
...irrespective of Religion, Nationality or any such segmentation of Global Kinsmen.
What any Religion has got to do in the Question you have raised?
Islam is one of the Great Religions of the World, through which the revered Sal / Mohammad has reformed the huge mass of erstwhile downtrodden Arabians initially and also...
.. paved a Sacred path for the uplift of Humanity...
..utilizing the innate Soul-power which is endowed only by Mankind.
That holy Soul-pursuit is further emancipating the followers towards higher sphere of Spiritualism...
...the Language of God irrespective of any Religion.
...similar to any other Great Religions of the World.!!!
While I was in Saudi Arabia.. I had the rare plus one more opportunity of diversity...
...a rare prevelege to closely observe and understand practically why any Religion is necessary for Mankind?...
... and how any Religion helps humanity in Life...
...by means of unshakeable God faith.!!
I used to admire their sincerety... not to miss even a Single Salah in the holy Mosque...
...and at every stage of talk they utter with wholehearted faith... INSHAH ALLAH.!!!
Besides I learnt a lot on the high values of Islam
Ramanuja duly recognised such God-faith of one Muslim princess of Delhi...
... whom he made as the Godess to be worshipped by all his disciples in the Sannidhi he shaped .
.. as BHEEVI NACHIAR at Ranganatha Temple at Srirangam.
.
Sudhamaji,
Ur posts on Udaiyavar in the hub section are illuminating.
Hats off to U for the great work.
.
. Ramanujacharya 's ENGINEERING MARVEL.!
While on his tour... visiting the local people at the Karnataka region... volunteering to enquire their welfare...
..he came to know of acute water-scarcity... not only for Irrigation, although fertile lands...
..but also for Drinking needs. So to say entirely depending upon seasonal rains very badly.
He replied "Oh I see... let me think over what to do. Lord Lakshmi-Narayana will indeed show me the solution."
Then he left the place and proceeded with his onward jouney ....
...fervently praying... followed by constant Naama-Japam... for the sake of the people.
Suddenly he stopped at one place and called for the local Village officers.
"Make an Earthen Dam here... connecting those two Hills... from this point to that point... which will solve your water-problem for ever...
..because this will form a large Water-Storage lake.
Accordingly the word was sent to the King Vishnu-vardhana the King of Mysore... and on his immediate sanction, the Earthen Dam was built...
..conforming to Ramanuja's instructions.
To the amaze of all... it became a large lake to store water for all sorts of local needs for minimum seven years...
...even without any Rain.
The King wondered and thanked the Acharya and said.."Even our Engineers could not find out this simple solution...despite their strenuous brainwork...
..whereas you Swamiji have solved it easily and very simply.
He named that Reservoir as RAMANUJA - LAKE ...
...which continues with the same Name and fame even now.
More than the factor of Eternal solution... on a perennial Public problem of several centuries...
..the most important factor here to be remembered is...
..that just being a Relgious-Head cum Saint... he need not have taken undue pains...
..and personally involved himself as also applied his abilities for this Social issue...
..pertinent to the Government only.
Whereas he PERSONALLY intervened... voluntarily transgressing his bounds of Scope and Purview...
..only due to his Hearty spirit of Universal Love...
...More than the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT... his only concern and purpose.
.
.
. Why UTHSAVAR of Temple-Deity VISIT STREETS?
Conforming to Vishnu Aagama-Saasthras.. e.g. Pancharaathra or Vaigaanasa Systems...
...Every Vishnu Temple has MOOLAVAR (Unmoved Idol located beneath the Vimaanam, and within the Garbagriha / Sanctum-Sanctorum)...
..and parallelly another Idol.. named VIGRAHA... closeby the Moolavar... for the same deity.
But... Visiting the Streets by Uthsavars... named in Tamil as VEEDHI-PURAPPAADU... we can see only in places of contacts by Ramanuja's followers... i.e. mostly in South India. Why.?
That too only since the past about One Thousand Years.?... after Ramanujacharya took birth in 1017 AD.
The Concepts of Uthsavar and Moolavar are far different and contra-distinctory... although of the same Deity in the relevant Temple.
Moolavar is the functional form as the Graceful Ruler God.
...while the Uthsavar is the simple and humble form of Soulabhya in an affectionate paternal (Fatherly) outlook towards His children...
..showering abundant grace without insisting much formalities from the Seeker-devotee.
... thus ignoring His Supremacy and vast disparity between the Seeker- Creations and the Sought- God, the Protector.
Ramanujacharya thought ONE STEP FURTHER ahead..
If and while the Omnipotent Protector God has voluntary taken up another parallel role.. as the Humble and Simple Father... predominantly exhibiting affection (Vaathsalyam)...
..Can He afford to be Static and UNMOVED.? .. and
...Can He be contented to always confine Himslef to the four wall boundary of the Temple only.?
...If any child residing far-off from his affectionate Father... does not communicate adequately with him... what will be his reaction.?
...Will he keep quiet restfully.?.. Or get angry.?.. Or ignore his child's interests.?
...No..the Father rushes voluntarily towards his child... doubting of some probable problems and impediments... like Sickness or Over-work or onslaught of new worries etc....
..interfering in the dutiful, sincere and affectionate son's communication...
..Or else.. perhaps the Son might have got engrossed on some other secondary affair...
...which may be undeserving to be given priority over the mutual affection and concern between the Father and the Son.
So the Father reminds his Son.."Oh my dear Boy... I have rendered enough of Freedom to make the best use of YOUR Life and Enjoy the days...
...But do not forget.. I have my due roles too to play in Two different ways..
....One is CO-ORDINATORY and the other the SUPERSEDING Role... being your dutiful and affectionate father. So do not either forget me nor ignore my important roles...
..intended ...NOT IN MY INTERESTS... but for You and You only...
Besides, My dear Son.. even if you fail in your duties as a Son to His Father...
...I cannot forget nor ignore my duties to you... nor retaliate on you... for neglecting me...
... Hence I am visiting you and standing at your door... What is your RECIPROCATION and Reaction to my voluntary Simplicity...
...by my stooping down to a Servant's attitude.?"... Father questions his Son.
Similarly Ramanuja wanted to highlight such a voluntary gesture of healthy Paternal Vaathsalya spirit...
..alongside to instil the Reciprocal Son's spirit and Sense of duty from the BENEFICIARY creation, the Mankind.
So the Acharya introduced the new system of Uthsavar visiting the Streets...
...when the devotees become duty-bound to duly reciprocate by coming out of their houses and properly receive with the committed respect to the God-father.
Further Ramanuja introduced Uthsavas... Festivals too, outside the Temples... which were till then conducted within the precincts of the Temples.
Much impressed by these principes... the South-Indian Kings then... adopted the same Healthy system in all the Temples.
Thus the God is frequently reminded... in the midst of unnecessary THRUST of undue mundane thoughts...
...alongside the Devotional-spirit is enhanced and often rejuvenated.
.
.
. ONE Goal.. THREE Ways.!!!
All the three Acharyas Sankara, Madhwa and Ramanuja... are the GREAT AWATHARA-PURUSHAS.. REVERENTIAL SEERS..
...sent to Earth.. by One and the same Supreme God.. at different times..
..to EMANCIPATE the Mankind on the whole.
But each of them preached divergent and Contradictory Philosophic Theories.. although based on One and the same Moola-Texts... Vedas, Upanishads and Brahma-Soothra.
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http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...Narayana14.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]However they all UNANIMOUSLY asserted only ONE GOD as the Common Goal for all
... and that One God is Vishnu as the Supreme-God.. PARAMATHMA.. who created all other Gods...
..as clearly laid down in Vedas, Upanishads as well as the universally Common 18 Puranas.
Their difference lies.. Not on God's identity... but on the way to approach and gain His grace.
So to say... their difference is only on the Philosophical aspect..
..by way of varied sorts of Mutual- Relations between God, Man and other Creations...
Sankaracharya has rendered a yeoman service to God and the Mankind...
..by studying and learning from his Guru thorougly... just within 16 yrs age...
..and boldly ventured to revive the Vedic Religion.. which almost became extinct before Sankara...
..since its place was occupied by mostly Budhism and in some other areas Jainism... relegating the Vedic Religion to a few Kingdoms like that of Gupthas... apart from some Pockets here and there.
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http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ankara21-1.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Hence the Vedic Religion got REBIRTH..or Second term of life because of Sankaracharya.
He established a new Vedic Philosophy named ADHWAITHA... Monism.
Subsequently, about 300 years after Sankara.. Ramanuja took Awathara.. and he developed and built up a huge Tower of Vedic Religion... in its ENTIRETY...
..on the FIRM FOUNDATION already laid down by the Great Sankara earlier.
After Ramanujacharya, at last Madhwacharya took Awathara and created a new Philosophy DHWAITHA (Dualism)..totally NEGATING Sankara's ADHWAITHA Philosophic Theory (Monism).
Does the Vedic Text give room for Self-Contradictions.?
Vedas, Upanishads and Brahmasoothra... describe the THREE SORTS of Relation and Propensities between God and His Creations.
(1) God prevails in all forms of Shapes and Shapeless ABSTRACT Forms.. as if anything and everything in the Universe... what we see and feel... are the multiple Manifestations of One God in varied forms... Whether Air, Fire, Water, Mountain, Plants, Animals, Humans.. etc.
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http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...08/Madhwa5.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Such unique attributions are described through the First sort of Terminologies named as ABEDA- SRUTHI words...
...based on...which alone... Sankara built up his whole Philosophy of ADHWAITHA (Monism) meaning...
...All which exists are one and the same....Only one... that is God.
(2) God is the Supreme powerful Almighty... OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT and OMNIPRESENT.. He created several other Gods... as also Earthly creations like Living-beings and Lifeless objects like Mud, Trees, Mountain etc.
Such unique attributions are described through the Second sort of Vedic Terminologies named as BEDA Sruthi words...
..based on... which alone... Madhwa built up his whole Philosophy of DHWAITHA (Dualism)
...laying out another Philosophic Theory.. contradicting Sankara's ADHWAITHA...
...that whatever exist in the universe... fall under two categories... CREATOR and CREATIONS.
(3) God although the Supreme in all respects.. He the CREATOR and CREATIONS are in some respects.. mutually INTER-DEPENDANT also.
Such unique attributions are described through the Third sort pf Terminologies.. named as GATAKA sruthi Terminologies.
How and Why the Difference and Contradictions by Three different Philosophies.?
(a) Sankara established his First Novel Philosophic- Theory.. ADHWAITHA... only based on the terminologies suited to his approach...
...under only one Section, amongst the Three... named as ABEDA Sruthi Terminologies..
..but he avoided descriptions for the other Two sorts of Vedic Terminologies... BEDA and GATAKA.
(b) Madhwa established his Second Novel Philosophic Theory...DHWAITHA...
...based only on the second sort of terminologies suited to his own pursuit..
...under only one section, amongst the Three.. named as BEDA Sruthi Terminologies...
..but he too avoided the descriptions for the other Two sorts of Vedic Terminologies...ABEDA & GATAKA.
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http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...aswathi-15.jpg
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But Ramanuja alone rendered describtions wholly...
... for ALL THE THREE SORTS OF SRUTHI Terminologies.. without skipping off any part of the Moola text.
.. as to How one and the same God can have three sorts of Intra- Contradictory Propensities.
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http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...amanuja11A.jpg
[/html:50ec97eee0]Goddess Saraswathi Devi gave Darsana in person to Sankaracharya...
... and approved his treatise naming it as.. SANKARA BHASHYAM.
At another occasion the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Madhwacharya too...
...and approved his different Treatise also... naming it as MADHWA BASHYAM.
At another occasion, the same Goddess Saraswathi devi appeared in person and gave Darsana to Ramanujacharya too...
..and approved his FAR DIFFERENT Treatise also...
...naming it as SRI-BASHYA.
..Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.!.. Why.?
.
Dear r_kk,Quote:
Originally Posted by r_kk
I personally believe there is NO CONTRADICTION here. Its on how we perceive or understand any terminology.
'Truth' is like an ocean, each person describes either a single droplet or a limited quantity(quality) of water , from which THEY TRY TO say this is what truth is.
Truth is incomprehensible. Truth is this and that and everything, also, truth is neither this and that and nothing too. That which is everything becomes that which is NOTHING, if we undrestand it in its complete ONENESS.
So, RE-INCARNATION does not mean there is an adiseshan sitting in its all physical form and it re-enters the body. Some ppl comprehend it that way. Thats right for their perspective and CANNOT BE ARGUED wrong.
Whist some ohters my comprehend it as cluster of energy with similar characteristic / identical to the qualities of adiseshan (or any terminology which is termed as 'adiseshan' )
So, where is the contradiction here? Does not everything depend on how we understand?
yes plz sudhama ? waiting for more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
(However, I request u to present it in fewer paragraphs for easy reading :oops: )
When everything is ONE, there seem no contradiction even in great philosophies of DWAITA, VISISHTA-ADWAITA and ADWAITA. It is but the same nature in different perspectives or stand points.
Shankara might not have NEGATED dwaita or interdependance of jeevatma and paramatma(visishta-adwaita). He might have just said, THE ROOT, when sought for, is adwaita. i.e. to say CROWN of the search is adwaita .
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.Ramanuja's Philosophy TOTALITY, unlike Other Two.!!!
...Taken up Only one Third... either as ADHWAITHA or DHWAITHA...
...SKIPPING OFF the Other Two Classifications of Moola Text.
(1) Unlike the other Two Acharyas for Adhwaitha and Dhwaitha.. who took up ONLY ONE SECTION amongst the Three of the Moola-text...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakthiprabha
..skipping off the other two sections of Varied Qualities of Creator.
..Ramanuja's Visishta-Adhwaitha is the Totality of the whole Moola-text, Brahma-Soothra...
...covering all the three types of Qualities of Creator...Adhwaitha, Dhwaitha and Gataka propensities...
...in relation to Creations.
(2) Sankara's Philosophy approaches the matter... that there is NO SECOND category in the Universe... other than the Supreme Soul... the Almighty Creator.
..which virtually constitutes to mean as... NA-DHWAITHAM.. although named as A-DHWAITHAM... says Ramanuja.
Whereas the Vedic Terminologies under ABEDA-SRUTHI are termed as ADHWAITHA...
..to mean, there exists the Second matter too... but HIDDEN and unperceptible through the elementary Potential- means of His Creations...
..but can be felt basically upto some extent... by Wisdom
I will try to elaborate step by step in a simple Language in an interesting manner...
..as to how one and the same Creator can possess Three sorts of Self-contradictory propensities in relation to His Creations.
..as clarified by Ramanuja... approved by Saraswathi Devi as the
...COMPLETE one.. named SRI-BASHYA.
On these points, I have already written in simple style... in my Tamil Serial Article of our HUB MAGAZINE Monthly...
...under the Title: THAMIZH-MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.
http://hubmagazine.mayyam.com/apr08/?t=11332
If you know Tamil... you can understand and get the answers to your questions better there ...
...Simpler and more interesting too... because of Tamil Language.
.
However they all UNANIMOUSLY asserted only ONE GOD as the Common Goal for all
... and that One God is Vishnu as the Supreme-God.. PARAMATHMA.. who created all other Gods...
Completely wrong analysis.
Madhva does not agree devathas were created by Vishnu inspite of maintaining the superiority of the latter. They and the souls which incarnate as humans are eternally created. BG clarifies this point when it says "ajo nithyo sashvato..." meaning "souls are eternally existing" and were unborn or uncreated. Madhva rejects both Ramanuja and Shankara's interpretation as incorrect.
Also Madhva has given equal importance to Abheda shrutis and proved that what those verses talk about is qualitative equalilty and not quantitative equality.Likewise the bedha-abhedha shrutis of Ramanuja have been interpreted to mean the qualitative equality and quantitative difference. Thus he has not ignored any verse. Also its incorrect to state that Madhva has not given any importance to Lakshmi Devi.
Actually no word states birth here.Quote:
Originally Posted by bis_mala
The verse can be lterally translated as
The four-varnas are created by Me on the basis if karma and guna
But even the I am the creator , I am not one of them.
The Lord says that the four types of people are created by Me.Created in the sense the four types are pre-existing , but the Lord energised them and manifested them on earth. But nothing is there to say that therefore it has to be decided by birth alone as the Lord says it is decided by Guna and Karma. But socially speaking it proceeds in a hereditary way as it is easier that way and also convention and also a sense of duty.Those days there were no careers , society was based on duties and usually people born in respective families continued in the same profession and this was the case all over the world. So I dont understand why hindus are so upset by the caste system.
Also another difference is Madhva does not accept all religions are one and the same. He states that only the Vedic religion is the correct one and all other are false. He holds his interpretation of the Veda alone to be the correct one and capable of giving moksha. He says that it is mandatory to denounce falsehood in this world to attain salvation and so urges his followers to denounce false religions and critique incorrect commentaries on the Veda. According to him the true Vedic religion should be defended by both intellectual and physical means. World peace and prosperity reigns when the false religions are defeated by all possible means and true Vedic religions is accepted by one and all.
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.All Rivers lead to ONE OCEAN.!!!
...So are All the World Religions towards ONE GOD.!!!...
...although addressed and practised different by various Religions.!!
...Say Upanishads... which was quoted by Swami Vivekananda in the International Conference on Religions held at Chicago...
..and further was repeated in most of his Lectures...
..to affirm that the Vedic Religion is the One EMULATIVE Religion... UNPARALLEL...
...being imbibed with the True Humane-Spirit of...UNIVERSAL OUTLOOK... with Voluntary Love towards All the World and Nature...
..giving No room for Hatred or Domination or Ill-will towards other faiths...
..nor EVEN towards the Non-Hindus... Nor EVEN towards the Non-believers God... so to say Atheists.
That was an UNIQUE stand taken by Swami Vivekananda... was UNDISPUTABLE...
... nor anybody could COMPETE or VIE to boost up the image and impressions of the Common Mankind on other Religions.
Such an invaluable FOUNDATION-VALUE of Vedic Religion was the True Spirit of Ramanuja too...
..while comparing the Vedic Gospels with other popular Faiths in the Global-perspective.
In that respect Ramanuja got substantive amount of support and Clarifications from the Tamil-Vedas...
....So called ALWARS' DHIVYA PRABHANDHAM...
..especially THAMIZH-MARHAI THIRUVAAYMOZHI.. the Gyst of Sama-Veda...
...in an analytical approach on Vedic Philosophy... IN TOTALITY.
Thus Ramanuja preached to Global Mankind..
(1) ESCHEW HATRED or Ill-will TOWARDS OTHER FAITHS...
..even though disputable... based on the Yardstick of our Vedic Faith...
(2) Allow full Freedom for every Individual to choose his/her own Religious path of choice...
...as one may feel proper and befitting for oneself... in his/her personal interests on Life Goal
(3) Religious spirit emanates from UNIVERSAL-LOVE... towards one and all... including Animals and Worms...
..because after all, they too are God's creations and are the parts of Nature...
...deserving to be left undisturbed and NON-INTEFERED by others.
Such an Apllied Spirit innate for Mankind of TRUE HUMAN-VALUES...
he propagated...
..FAR DIFFERING from other Leaders and Connoisseurs of other Faiths.
Consequently Ramanujachaya could gain the Reciprocal Love and Veneration from all his parallels... REMARKABLY.
In brief Ramanuja's DRUM-BEAT MESSAGE to Humanity is that ...
...Religions are intended to generate MUTUAL-LOVE of Social-spirit rudimentarily...
...alongside EMANCIPATION of Mankind towards the higher Sphere of the due purpose of Earthly birth...
..but NOT TO DIVIDE nor BREAK the Web of Humanity...
...the One SUPREME SPECY... created by One Common EMPEROR PROTECTOR God.!!!
.. for our COMMON ADVANTAGE and Well-being of One and All. !!!
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.
.DON'T OPPOSE Nor COMPETE with Other Faiths.
Because any Religion is NEITHER a BUSINESS Nor ENEMY ...
...but intended to UPLIFT the respective sections of Vast Humanity
...of multi-hues with varied tastes and understanding...
..similar to FOODS of varied sorts.
So said Ramanujacharya... the FIRST LEADER... in the entire world..
...especially a Religious Leader... amongst all the Religious Heads.
One Supreme God has created several Divine paths and has spread the GOD-FAITH and His Gospel... of different varieties...
...through His Divine Prophets...
... to make the Mankind develop God-faith... in some form.
Which alone can ensure a HOMOGENEOUS GLOBAL SOCIETY...
...of Universal Mankind...
..ensuring Peace, Happiness and PROSPERITY all over the Globe.!!!"
... preached Ramanujacharya... the First Voice UNIVERSALLY.!!!
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...
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. Life-History - RAMANUJA ACHARYA - Movie.
http://www.rajshri.com/tamil/devotio...Id=devotional4
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Ramanuja... the PIONEER of Humanity.!
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In the above Movie-presentation of Biography...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudhaama
..there are several Contradictions with the True History.
For example...
(1) Ramanuja and his Parents are shown as Iyengars / Sri-Vaishnavites.. by birth.
No... Ramanuja's Father Kesava Somayaji and his Mother Kanthimathi.. were Iyers / Adhvaithis / Smaarthas.. So called Disciples of Adhi Sankaracharya.
Ramanuja got converted himself as Iyengar / Sri-Vaishnava Brahmin...
...later, on the Commands from God.. Kanchi Varadaraja Perumal.
(2) Contrary to this Movie sense... Ramanuja's Wife Thanjamambal too was an Iyer / Adhwaithi ..
...who never got converted to Iyengar / Sri-Vaishnava.
(3) Ramanuja's First Guru.. Yaadhava-prakasa... an Adhwaithi / Disciple of Adhi Sankaracharya...
...who hated Ramanuja and unsuccessfully attempted to murder the Boy Ramanuja by surreptitiously drowning him in the Ganga River...
..subsequently repeanted and sought Ramanuja to be his Guru.
Ramanuja accepted that erstwhile Guru... as his Present Disciple...
..and named him as GOVINDA-JEEYAR.
It is incorrectly stated in the above Movie... that his another name was... Arulhaalha Perumaalh...
In fact Arulhlaalha-Perumalh .. was another person... named Yagjna-moorthi... a high Adhwaithic Scholar from Kashi (Varanaashi)...
..who voluntarily approached Ramanuja... and challenged him on the Veracity of Ramanuja's Sri-Bashya... Visishtadwaitha Philosophy
..the Totality by Coverage of the whole.. on the Vedic-Content and Concept as well.
After 18 day Debate... Yagjna-moorthi had to accept his failure and sought to be the Disciple of Ramauja...
...which request was accepted... and the New name as the Disciple of Ramanuja...
...titled by him to Yagjnamoorthi the erstwhile Adhwaithi.. was ARULHAALHA PERUMAALH.!
More to follow.
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.
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. Why Saraswathi-devi titled as SRI-BASHYA.?..
..Why Not as RAMANUJA-BASHYA.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthi
Just to make it in brief...
When Sri Adhi Sankaracharya, the Incarnation of Lord Siva... took Awatara...
..the status of Vedic-Religion was extremely poor... and NOT MUCH FAMILIAR.
Because Buddhism was prominently prevalent in most regions of India...
..leaving some pockets for Jainism and Vedic-Religion so called Hinduism.
Buddhism is practically ATHEISM by Soonya-Vaadham..
...although it stipulates high HUMAN-VALUES... by Self-Dscipline.!
God wanted Theistic Values of God-Faith.. by making Mankind truly understand the Super-Human Power... through Vedic concept...
... and get emancipated by God-Realisation... the SELF-ENDEAVOUR...
...complying with the due PURPOSE OF HUMAN BIRTH.
So as a Rudimentary INTRODUCTION TO GOD... a bit TANGENTIAL with Buddhism...
..Adhi Sankaracharya... felt the URGENT DEMAND OF THE TIME.. by only a PART OF THREE VEDIC Concepts.
So Sankaracharya CREATED a New Philosophy named ADHWAITHA ...
..basing on only one section of Three parts of Vedic Concepts as Abedha-Sruthi (Adhwaitha)... Bedha-Sruti (Dwaitha)... and GATAKA-SRUTHI
...according to His Own Unique Interpretation of Vedic Terminologies and Concept.
That level and Degree of God-Realisation was cosidered as ENOUGH for the Time...
...and so Saraswathi-devi approved it as SANKARA-BASHYA...
...Silently meaning the Authorship of Sankara for ADHWAITHA Philosophy...
... newly created by Sankara's own School of perception.
Similarly when Madhwacharya the Incarnation of Vayu-deva, another form of ANTHARYAMI-VISHNU...
..took birth subsequently... He might have felt the necessity to convince another section of the masses who could not perceive the Paramathma in the Adhwaithic Concept.
So he INVENTED another Philosophy named DWAITA... basing on another section named BEDHA-SRUTHIS of the Three Vedic Concepts...
..which also was approved by Saraswathi-devi as relevant to another section of the Human-Society....
..and SHE titled it as MADHWA-BASHYA...
..Silently meaning the Authorship by Madhwa on Dwaitha-philosophy... His own School of perception.
Thus Sankara and Madhwa have dealt with ONLY PARTLY...
... taking up only one another respective parts of Totality... suiting to ones own...
..ignoring the other Two parts amongst the Totality or SAMPOORNA Three Veda-concepts Bedha, Abedha and Gataka Sruthis.
Whereas Ramanujacharya took up WHOLLY all the Three varied and MUTUALLY CONTRADICTORY Concepts of Bedha, Abedha and Gataka Sruthis...
..and rendered the Composite sense of Vedas in TOTALITY...
...so to say... SAMPOORNA-PHILOSOPHY of the Vedic-perception..
....ANALYTICALLY LINKING the True-sense behind all the three CONTRADICTORY Concepts...
..WHICH ALONE could clarify well on the TRUE CHARACTER of Paramaathma... the Supreme Soul...
..CONVINCING enough...to all, from Lay-man upto any highly Intellectual Scholar of any and all Religions.!
So Saraswaithi-devi approved Ramanuja's Bashya as SRI-BASHYA...
..since it was NOT NEWLY CREATED by Him... as MAN-MADE...
...but only the UNRAVELLED TRUE-CONCEPT and sense of Vedic- Philosophy...in Totality...
..which already existed.. but became extinct... during the Interim era... prior to all these Three Acharyas
SRI-BASHYA means Totality of the Vedic-Concept in True Sense.
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Great sudhama
:bow:
lovely info :bow:
I however reserve my perceptions and comments on "buddhism is atheism dealing on soonya vadham"
Talking about atheism or soonya vadha is out of the bounds of this thread. So let it rest :)
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Australian Christian turned Disciple of Ramanujacharya...
.. after studying Judaism, Christianity and Islam...
..got named as Rama-Ramanujacharya... and now..
..Running Religious Instituition to propogate Ramanuja's Philosophy
[html:256713e979]
<img src= "http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p213/sudhaama/2008/Thiru-MAR-09/Rama-ramanuja1.jpg" width=300 align=right>
[/html:256713e979]..in Australia.
Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya
Prior to his initiation into Sri Vaisnavism, Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya spent 8 years in the Middle East studying Hebrew, Arabic, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
He studied Sanskrit in Varanasi and then spent some time in South India studying Tamil, Vaisnava philosophy and Pancharatra Agama.
Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya was instructed by his guru, Sri Varada Yatiraja Jeeyar...
... to establish an independent Sri Vaisnava Math in Australia. Sri Ramanuja Matham was conceptualised...
... in Sydney, Australia in early 1998.
Following his guru's instruction, Sri Rama Ramanuja Ācārya,
....with his savings, purchased a house from which to conduct classes and establish a centre for the propogation of Vedanta.
http://www.srimatham.com/home.html
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Ramanuja propogated HUMAN-VALUES of Vedic- Spirit.!.
When Sri Sankaracharya took up the DIVINE-TASK...
..practically the Vedic Religion was almost extinct...
..just in some pockets of the then India... here and there, so patronised bya few Hindu Kings.
But Buddhism was well firm-routed since highly patronised by the Hindu converted Buddhist Kings...
..alongside Jainism in some other Regions.
So Sankara felt the urgent necessity to revive the Vedic Religion... within a short period..
..and so he achieved marvelous transformation by means of His strenuous endeavour...
...just by walking all over India...
His approach of propogation was far different from that of Sri Ramanuja.
Sankara used to go in search of Antagonist scholars and challenge them.. by dragging them into argument...
..with a pre-condition, that whoever amongst the two opponents gets defeated by arguments...must become the disciple of the Victor Acharya...
...along with the en masse of followers.
Thus Sankara won over one and all His opponents invariably... and converted all the Non-Hindus into hindus... within a very short time.
Whereas the approach of Ramanuja who took birth in the year 1017 A.C... about 300 years after Ssankara..
...was far different.
Ramanuja did not volunteer to challenge His opponents... nor propogated to the followers of other Faiths.
But only accepted the Challenges of others... and won over them UNCONDITIONALLY by defensive arguments..
However the erstwhile opponent scholars were so fully convinced on the Vedic-sense, as UNRAVELLED by Ramanuja...
..they volunteered to become His Disciples along with their vast followings.
Yes. Ramanuja never preached to others... except to his own Disciples.
But He used address the vast gathering of commoners from different Religious faiths as well as Atheists...
..insisting them to BELIEVE IN GOD... in some form of individual choice and will...
..as well as to MAINTAIN HUMAN-VALUES..
..ENSURING SOCIAL-UNITY...irrespective of mutual differences of faiths and beliefs...
...without HATRED TOWARDS ANYONE... NOR DECRYING OTHER FAITHS.
God is One.! He cannot be perceived by the ORDINARY Five-senses of Humanity...
...such as Seeing, Hearing, Touching, Tasting, Smelling
..but possible by means of your INNER-FEEL only.!!!
You can and have to perceive Him... by ENHANCING YOUR INNER SOUL-POWER ...
..which is possible by your own persistent endeavour on GOD-DEVOTION..
..plus SELF-REALISATION.!!!
The emulative RARE opportunity...
... endowed only for the great birth HUMANITY.!!!
Real Happiness can be gained only by means of Peace of Mind...
..sincere adherence to Self-duties...
..and CLEAN Congruence of Thought, Talk and Deed (THRI-KARANA SUDDHI) .!!!
The conspicuous points of difference from other Acharyas...
..on which Ramanuja emphasised, are...
(1) The Whole Humanity are the God's children... as of ONE GLOBAL FAMILY. So treat all others as your brethren.
(2) Nobody is superior or inferior by birth... So you must ensure SOCIAL-EQUALITY... in every and all respects.
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(3) While dealing with others... maintain the SELF-DISCIPLINE of EMPATHY ( Imagining yurselves in the other relevant man's position)
(4) God-faith and Devotional pursuit... in some form.. is UNAVOIDABLE DUTY... to one and all...
..irrespective of Caste, Duties, Circumstances or any such factor.
(5) Gods grace is the must for everyone... He being our Sole Protector..
..which must be acknowledged daily and frequently...as the BENEFICIARY.
..with SELFLESS GRATITUDE... similar towards your parents.!
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இராமானுஜர் பங்கேற்ற அரங்க நிகழ்வுகள் - வரலாறா? கற்பனையா?
எஸ். இராமச்சந்திரன்
Article written in response to certain strong claims made by former head of the TN Archaeology Department Head R.Nagaswamy's book Ramanuja - Myth and Reality
innabA? idhu only serious posts vAramA?Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
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.FALSE CRITICISMS.!... Salient Points Replied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
I am shocked to note the daring FALSE STATEMENTS... and SULLIED IMAGE painted on a proven Great Acharya... Bhagawad Ramanuja...
....a Religious cum Social Reformer of World repute.... a crusader of Social-equality who propogated Human-Values coupled with UNIVERSAL- LOVE.
Although I can repudiate and justify point by point... I am not interested to waste my time...
...in replying to such intentional insults from the enviers... throwing False statements far from proven truth based on authentic History.
I am eagerly waiting to see what the Vaishnawa- Scholars have got to reply to this parochial untrue statements against a Seer
However to appease the curiosity of my Friends.. I will touch a few points... in a BROAD OUTLOOK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
Ramanuja was born in the year 1017 AD.. and completed his Earthly life in the year 1137.A.D... after living exactly 120 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
He wrote Sri-Bashyam treatise on Vedas with the help of Kooraththu-Azhwar prior to returning to Srirangam...
...followed by miserable punishments to his Disciple Koorathu Azhwar as well as his Guru Peria-Nambi... who were made blind.. by the cruel King.
So can the above statements corroborate with the True authentic History.?
Ramanuja did not establish a new philosophy named Visishta-adwaitha... unlike Sankaracharya's newly established Adhwaitha... and Madhwacharya's Dhwaitha too newly created.Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
Rather Ramanuja revived the originally existed Vedic-philosophy of totality... for Vedas, which was extinct for about 400 years until Ramanuja's revival. Such a revived Philosophy was
titled later as VISISHTA-ADWAITHA... by Ramanuja's successive Acharyas... to identify the differences between the newly introduced ADWAITHA philosophy by Sankaracharya..
Acharyas are far different from Alwars... Ramanuja was an ardent disciple of Nammalwar.. and so Nammalwar's Padukas at his birthplace Alwar-Thirunsgari.. is named as Ramanuja.Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
So Ramanuja getting re-christened as ALWAR is utterly irrelevant and nobody even attempted for it..
No Not at all. Chozha Emperors were totally not bothered about Caste-differences... because their several wives belonged to various castes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
Yes. This episode shown in the Movie "Dasawatharam"... that the Chidambaram Govindaraja-perumal MOOLAWAR was thrown into the Sea.. is PURELY A FICTION.Quote:
Originally Posted by SISHRI
Only the Uthsavar was thrown into the sea at night... by the surreptitious stealing... on the secret arrangements by the Chozha King.
When the Archakas found at the next morning.. that the Vigraha was missing.. they rushed to Thirupathi.. where Ramanuja was camping then.
Ramanuja got this shocking news in his dreams as a message from Garudalwar.. even before the arrival of Chidambaram archakas. So Ramanuja sent the Royal warriors in the disguise of
merchants to Chozha Kingdom and secretly picked up the Uthsava vigraha lying under the sea,...
..and installed it ar Thirupathi.. after constructing a new Govindaraja Temple there. Then the Moolavar was newly made and installed by Ramanuja... while the Uthsavar vigraham.. even now
existing at Thirupathi.. was from Chidambaram Govindaraja Temple.
Subsequently after the death of the cruel Kirumi-kanta chozha who died of Cancer-decease...
..his successor son repeanted for his father's misdeeds, apologised to Ramanuja and invited him to render the due pariharas..
Then Ramanuja returned to Chozha Kingdom.. and got a new Govindaraja utsawar vigraham made... and installed at Chidambaram Temple.
Thus the present status is...
At CHIDAMBARAM Govindaraja Temple :--- Moolawar is the Original as existed since Alwars periods... UTHSAVAR newly made and installed by Ramanuja.
At THIRUPATHI Govindaraja Perumal Temple:--- Uthsavar is the Original but transferred from Chidambaram.... MOOLAVAR was newly made and installed by Ramanuuja.
..To Continue.
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Very good information.Please continue to enlighten.
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Moving Song on Ramanuja... by Mahaan Sri Annamacharya...
...Lord Sri Venkateswara-graced Keerthana:--
Annamacharya's Keerthana on RAMANUJA. - Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSxup5NJV8&NR=1
Will anyone here kindly let me have this Telugu Sahithya Text.. LYRICS..
...along with the Meaning.. word by word..?
THanks.
Affectionately,
Sudhaama
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Annamacharya, who was initiated into Sri Vaishnavism, naturally holds Udayavar in high esteem. Just how much is revealed in this song, where he considers Sri Ramanujacharya as not only a Guru in the Guru Parampara but as the talking God himself!
Here is the meaning of this song along with the lyrics
gathulanni khilamaina kaliyuga mandunu gathi eethade chupe ghana guru daivamu
In this kaliyuga, when all other efforts are of no use, he is the great guru, the god, that shows us the true path
Ithani karunane kaa ila vaishnavula maithimi, ithani vallane kantini thirumani
Because of His grace only I could become a Vaishnava in this life on this earth and because of Him I could see/wear thiruman
Ithade upadesamichenu ashtakshari mantramu...ithade ramanujulu iha para daivam..
He is the one who gave upadhesha of the ashtakshari mantra. He is Ramanuja, the god of here and hereafter (ubhaya-vibhuti)
Velayinche eethadekaa vedapu rahasyamulu, chalamai eethade chupe saranagathi.
He disclosed the secrets of the Vedas, He showed the path of surrender (saranagathi),
nilipinaadeethade kaa nijamudraadhaaranamumalasi ramanujulu matalaade daivamu...
He established the correct source (the custom of wearing the Sankha and chakra on one's shoulders); for this reason Ramanuja is the talking God
Niyamamulu ithade kaa nilipe prapannulaku, dayatho mokshamu chupe thaganeethadu,
He established the rules and regulations to all the prapannas, He, with His mercy shows (gives) us the Moksham
nayamai Sri Venkatesu nagamekke vaakitanu....daya chuchi mammu nitte thalli tandri daivamu
He, with His mercy on us, will take us to the door steps of Lord Sri Venkateswara, He is our mother and father and God
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Dear "Badri"Quote:
Originally Posted by Badri
Well done. Many Thanks.
One point I want to get clarified. Please advise me how far I am correct to understand so.
For the words above-quoted... with my knowledge of Telugu... I understand the meaning as ...
'In the Kaliyuga when all the Ultimate Resorts / Means of Refuge... are DETERIORATIVE / DELAPIDATIVE...
...He being the Great Guru and God... is the only Refuge [for the Seekers]...
...since competent enough to show [the correct / best path]."
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Also I request... One and all our Telugu Friends here...
...to clarify and analyse the depth of meaning further.
Thanks.
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Ramanuja... the ONLY Religious- Leader... UNIQUE.!!!... Emulative.!
....Who never propagated his Doctrines...
..amongst his Non-Disciples.!
"No Religion is Inferior...
Common God, for Mankind ... through different Faiths.... is ONE and the SAME."... said Ramanuja.
When Ramanuja had to leave off Chozha-nadu... due to UNDUE INTERFERENCEs and Over-Domination ON RELIGION ... by the King
...Kulothunga Chozha... the SAIVA FANATIC...
...and SEEK THE REFUGE in the Neighbour Kannada state...
...the INDIRECT DRAMA... thrust on Him... by Lord Ranganatha...
... took a pleasant turn....
Spiritually He could redress the unsurmountable grievance of the King... ....his daughter Princess under the possession of a mighty Evil force... Brahma Rakshasa.
.. which miracle revealed the hidden Divine truth....
....proving Ramanuja to that Jain King as the Transcendental Aadhi Seshawathara..
The Princess got cured within a trice... on Ramanuja's commands... and the Brahma-Rakshasa bowed down to Ramanuja... announcing openly on His divine background.
The Jain King Pittiraya appealed to Ramanuja to accept as his Disciple.. which request was approved and implemented.
Consequently Ramanuja became the all ever powerful in the Kingdom.
Then the Kings Jain Gurus fled away the Kingdom... deserting their followers.
Left in the lurch, thousands of Jains of the then Mysore approached Ramanuja... and sought His advice...
....whether they were bound to get converted to Hinduism as Vaishnavite-disciples of Ramanuja...
... and that they were willing to comply with, accordingly.... if ordained so, either by the King or Ramanuja, the Rajya-Guru..
Whereas Ramanuja calmly replied stating that He does not accept any FORCIBLE RELIGIOUS CONVERSION....
...and that He does not preach amongst the Non-followers that the Vedic Religion is the BEST AMONGST ALL RELIGIONS.
It is a question... everyone has to search by own wisdom... and decide, which is the apt and best Religion... APPLICABLE IN HIS / HER CASE.
..In any case, I have advised the King to....
.... TREAT ALL THE PEOPLE OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS EQUALLY.
...so you are at Liberty to follow any Religion of your individual choice
...but keep one important point in your mind... DON'T FORCE OTHERS TO FOLLOW YOUR PATH of any Religion...
....you must allow EQUAL FREEDOM TO ALL...to follow ones own choice of anyone Religious pursuit amongst various sorts of GOD-FAITHS..
And the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR... I ADVISE TO ALL OF YOU...
... BELIEVE IN GOD in some form and Name... Follow any Religion... as you personally PREFER....
Mutually respect others Faiths too.!... No Religion is inferior... all are various paths towards One common Goal..
...So You all must learn to live peacefully and amicably.... imbued with the Humane Spirit of UNITY IN DIVERSITY.... like a Rainbow.!
And.... Don't be an Atheist. (Nasthika)
Yes Everyone of Mankind must TRUST IN GOD... through anyone Religion....
..ALL the various SORTS OF PRAYERS.... from various Hearts... LEAD TO ONE COMMON GOD...
...said Ramanuja.
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MEANING and Sahithya - Annamacharya Keerthana on RAMANUJA.
- Gathulanni khilamaina
http://annamacharyulu.blogspot.com/2...hilamaina.html
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.- Song - Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgSxup5NJV8
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"Oh Man,
...Your EARTHLY PARADISE... in YOUR Hands.!"
For all Current Era PROBLEMS & QUESTIONS of Mankind,
--Ramanujacharya only, REPLIED CLEARLY,
... Simply convincing ANSWERS ... and...
...PRACTICALLY FEASIBLE SOLUTIONS .!!!,
[html:a95288f952]
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...amanuja11A.jpg
[/html:a95288f952]The SALIENT POINTS are...
1.Vedic Religion is a COMMON TREATISE to preach HUMAN-VALUES to the ENTIRE MANKIND.
Yes. They are applicable to ANYBODY and EVERYBODY of any Nation, Religion or even an Atheist.
2. You are the SUPREME BIRTH, as Human—the ONLY CREATURE born to ENJOY also side by side---
---the worth of EARTHLY BIRTH, because you are a Specy in between the Beasts and God.
So to mean, You are a REFINED ANIMAL.
Hence if the Refinity leaves you--- then you will be treated by others as Animal only.
3. You Human are Supreme, because of HUMAN-VALUES, which must be sincerely NURTURED and carefully maintained to ensure your MEANINGFUL LIFE on Earth.
4. You Human are Supreme, mainly because You only are innate and endowed with SOUL-POWER, the Greatest and Mightiest, than the other three mights you possess by Wisdom, Mind and Physique.
So you have to conserve Soul power by any and all means constantly. Otherwise you will lose your worth as Human.
5. You have to BELIEVE GOD --- the SUPREME POWER ruling over all the Universe, including You and me. Such a pursuit only can make YOUR LIFE WORTHY.
6. In whatever way, you may perceive, believe and worship God by way of any Religion or Faith---
...God is ONE & the SAME only, common to the entire Mankind, in whatever Name and Form or Formless, you may choose to accept as your SAVIOR Protector.
7. The WHOLE MANKIND must be deemed as of ONE GLOBAL FAMILY, ensuring HUMAN FRATERNITY.
8. If you are REALLY A GENTLEMAN of Human-Calibre, you must equally respect Others beliefs and Faiths also...
---even if anyone or more of those varied GOD-GIVEN Options for the Mosaic Mankind may not suit you, nor CONVINCING to you, nor found acceptable to you.
9. Whether you believe in God or not, if you are an ATHEIST too,
-- even in such a worst case of a Member of Mankind,
---You too are One amongst the members of Vedic Religion.
(Yes. Hindu Religion only accepts even an Atheist also as another sort of Hindu).
10. Even if You do not Trust in God --- You cannot avoid TRUSTING NATURE---
--- another FORM OF GOD, which is nurturing you to live, thrive or even EXIST and SURVIVE.
11. The whole Universe has been created by God as EGALITARIAN.. So One and All His Creations possess EQUAL RIGHTS to exist, thrive and advance...
... as much as You the Supreme birth, the Mankind deserve. reserve and claim as YOUR RIGHTs...
... to utilize the same Earth, Your TEMPORARY ABODE towards YOUR BEST ADVANTAGE.!
So SHARE Your Rights along with other Creatures too.!
12. And also PROTECT, CONSERVE and Pay back to the Nature God including the Living-beings as well,
--- a part of your EARNINGS from Nature, as well as by SOCIAL SERVICE,
--as a GENTLEMANLY OFFER Voluntarily in return,
-- the due PRICE for Your EARTHLY WORTH, by means of VITAL FEED from Nature to You.
13. You are a part of Nature as one of the Limbs of God, similar to any part or Limb of Your Body to You.
Similar to You being able to efficiently conduct yourself, only because of the sincere CO-ORDINATION of all your parts of Your Body and Soul, effectively synchronizing with your decision by your Wisdom coupled with Mind.
... so is the case of God too in the conduct of Universal orderly functions, super-monitored by God.
So try to understand and duly CO-OPERATE and CO-ORDINATE as also ABIDE by the Laws of Nature as well as the Laws of Government--
... alongside the Religious Doctrines and Stipulations of the God, you follow with UNIVERSAL-LOVE,
... by implementing your due role on His COMPREHENSIVE PLAN for the Society as a whole.
14. The Rudimentary principle of any Human is TRI- PURITY by one and the same intention backed Thought, Speech and Action.
Otherwise, not only you are a HYPOCRITE but also INFERIOR than Animals.
In such a Negative case as BEASTLY MAN you will be rejected and ILL-TREATED...
... by not only the Ruler Government, Society and Your own Family as well---
-- but also by God, Your SUPREME PROTECTOR.
Yes. EVERY LIVING-CREATURE including the mighty Beasts and easily vulnerable Worms...
...maintain SELF-DISCIPLINE in adopting ONE UNIFIED CONDUCT, by sense of TRIPARTITE PURITY, by Mind ( Thoughts and Intention), Wisdom, and Body.
So, by neglecting the vital need of YOUR TRI-PURITY, which is the Basic Factor of HUMAN-VALUES,
... You lose even the FUNDAMENTAL Qualification for any form of Human.!
With such a SELF-DECLINING Pursuit on Life and the Society, as well as towards YOUR OWN-SELF too...
---does it mean or not... that You will become INFERIOR / WORSE than even BEAST, your Sub- standard creature, the Wild-mean.?
So You can JUDGE YOURSELF... Are you a Human or Beast.?
15. You can fetch Your EARTHLY DUES, Only commensurate with YOUR REAL WORTH to God.!
.. Rather You cannot achieve the REAL WORTH OF EARTHLY LIFE.. by being SELFISH,
...but by Only the True spirit of EMPATHY.!
So to mean... You must think, intend, behave, do and deliver, in the same manner to others VOLUNTARILY...
...what you will expect and wish to receive from them, by RECIPROCAL SPIRIT.
16. Your EARTHLY PARADISE rests in YOUR HANDS.!!!
... because You are the DEMY-GOD innate by birth, and so...
...if You TREAT and CONDUCT Yourselves as HUMAN.!!!
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