Mr PaulThomas:
(deleted)
??Quote:
I am surprised by attacks on me even from Dravdian Scholars as Mr.fsg and mala
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Mr PaulThomas:
(deleted)
??Quote:
I am surprised by attacks on me even from Dravdian Scholars as Mr.fsg and mala
Dear Friends,
Thirukural refers to Vedas in several Kurals and names Hindu God names more than 25 times, and no single Christian name here.
Bis.mala says- I am unable to accept Dr Deivanayagam's views and his thesis…. The learned doctor's views are not unusually convincing to me for me to embrace it! Certain things are best left untouched”
Why Bismala- say your views on Pulavar Deivanayagam’s method- IF He is wrong or right. There is nothing in the world; that can’t be discussed.
Convince or Getconvinced, If one IS Wrong Who it is? Let us Analyse; I am collecting books of him. My views would be here shortly, may be from my retd.Professor Maam, herself.
PT- Please do not Boast about JESUS as Historical, and till date no single evidence- acceptable to Unbiased Scholar infavour of Gospel is received.
The Churches today uses Common Era and Before CommonEra, and not BC, AD as Christ is not historical and his year of birth and death are more than one within gospels. I do not want to go any further in to it, as I want to respect other Faiths, but as per Gospels Jesus remained as Jew till death and died Crying- MY GOD! MY GOD! Why you have abandoned me?
PT- It is absolutely not possible today with the latest informations coming from Archeology and other sources to date Thiruvalluvar beyond middle of 2nd Century or later, and Christianity entered INDIA, only from 4th Cen.
It would be ideal for us to put Deivanayagam’s views and discuss, and throw which ever is the wrong view.(Kamil Zevilabil dates Kural 575CE)
Uppuma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uppuma
But please give your inputs and make it interesting.
Regards.
SIVAPERUMAAN LOVES ALL CREATURES , HUMANS and PLANTS.
kumaari Sivamaala.
There are roughly about 511 or more kuRaLs which can be compared or contrasted in substance and meaning between ThirukkuraL and Bagwat Gita.
The Gita was composed after RaamayaNa. There are references to Rama in Gita. "bavana bawathamasmi raama" says Gita.
Gita was also composed after the era of sangap pulavar Kapilar, "sitaanaam kapilO muni" says Gita, a clear reference to kapilar, the sangam Tamil poet.
Some kuRaL concepts found their way into Gita and this much is clear.
Is there anyone who has more informtion of this subject? Please comment.
There are no references to KrishNa in kuRaL. None on Rama, as far as it is known. But there is reference to Indra in kuRaL.
Please feel free to comment on the above preliminary view.
"¦À¡È¢Å¡Â¢ø ³ó¾Å¢ò¾¡ý ¦À¡ö¾£÷ ´Øì¸
¦¿È¢ ¿¢ýÈ¡÷ ¿£Î Å¡úÅ¡÷"
þ¾¢ø ÅÕõ '³ó¾Å¢ò¾¡ý' ÀüÈ¢ò¾¡§É ¿ñÀ÷ §¸ðÊÕó¾¡÷. ¦Áö, Å¡ö, ¸ñ, ãìÌ, ¦ºÅ¢ ±Ûõ ³óÐ ÒÄý¸ÙìÌõ, ¦À¡È¢¸Ç¡É °Ú, ͨÅ, ´Ç¢, Á½õ, ´Ä¢ ±Ûõ ³ó¾¢¨ÉÔõ «Å¢ò¾Åý(who destroyed) ³ó¾Å¢ò¾¡ý. þ¾É¡ø «Åý ÁÉõ «Æ¢Â, ¦À¡ö Ţĸ, ÓبÁÂ¡É ´Øì¸ ¦¿È¢Â¢ø ¿¢ýÚ ¿¢¨Ä¦ÀüÚ Å¡úÅ¡ý. þì¸ÕòÐ ¨ºÅõ, ¨Å½Åõ, Òò¾õ, ¨ƒÉõ ±øÄ¡ÅüÚìÌõ ¦À¡ÐÅ¡ÉÐ. ¬É¡ø ¸¢ÕòÐÅõ þ¾¨É ÅÄ¢ÔÕò¾Å¢ø¨Ä ±É ¿¢¨É츢§Èý.
«ýÒ¼ý,
†Ãý.
This means that raamayaNa is just a fairy tale!Quote:
Originally Posted by bis_mala
Valluvar Said this, for an Uneducated man, to wishing to speak in an educated people forum is like a Girl without any breasts who wants to show her beauty. The show by a Breastless lady would not be attractive and similarly the Man without proper Knowledge to speak.
Kallathaan Sol Kaamuruthal mulai irandum
IllaathavaL peN kaamuRRARRU.— Kural 402.
¸øÄ¡¾¡ý ¦º¡ü¸¡ ÓÚ¾ø ӨĢÃñÎõ
*øÄ¡¾¡û ¦Àñ¸¡Óü ÈüÚ. 402
Friends, Dr.Deivanayagam, with the Church funding exploited the Political and Practical Situation of the Day, with the Rationalist’s Government, and domination and the extreme eagerness on every Tamil Scholar to write differently Kural was given lot of interpretations un-acceptable; but as most used the Terms- Tamils or Dravidian- Proper protest were not made, and Deivanayagam, took various interpretations of Tirukural and selected what suits him and made a Theory. Deivanayagam also Twisted Bible for this purpose.
Thiruvalluvar refers many Vedic and Puranic Gods. Indiran was one, Lakshmi- wife of Lord Vishnu is referred in many Kurals.
The world where Lord Vishnu stays is referred as Vaikundtam and Valluvar calls it as Tamarai Kannan Vualgu. Valluvar also uses the term Adialanthan- referring the Thiruvikrama Avatharam.
Valluvar specifically avoids using direct God names in Kadavul VAzhthu, but most of them represent Hindu Purana Traditions, but surprisingly even does not have Murugar or Korravai referred in Tholkappiyam.
Valmiki Ramayan is dated to around 1000BCE, and Mahabaratha to 600 CE, however Critical Scholars put Geetha as later around 100BCE to 200CE.
But Valluvar cannot be dated earlier than even the Critical dating as Valluvar could be 3rd Century CE, or later only. Thiuvalluvamalai further tells lot of information on this, that Thiruvalluvar wrote Thirukural to give Ideals of Vedas, to Tamils in Tamil.
devapriya
This was what I was told when I went into a Lanka discussion forum some time back, telling them Ramaayanam was proof that Tamis were in Sri Lanka from antiquity.Quote:
Originally Posted by karuvaadu
According to Prof Vanamaamalai, Ramaayaana stories were old tales, collected and presented as epic by Vaalmiki!!
Why did not you add Uppuma to the Creatures, Humans and plants? Is it because uppumaa is created in the Kitchen and with kurunaaz (correct?)?Quote:
Originally Posted by bis_mala
I like the kuRuna uppuma. Also ravaa uppuma.Quote:
Originally Posted by KoH
Devipriya wrote:
I like Devipriya, Such a nice name.Quote:
Thiruvalluvar refers many Vedic and Puranic Gods. Indiran was one, Lakshmi- wife of Lord Vishnu is referred in many Kurals.
The world where Lord Vishnu stays is referred as Vaikundtam and Valluvar calls it as Tamarai Kannan Vualgu. Valluvar also uses the term Adialanthan- referring the Thiruvikrama Avatharam.
Valluvar specifically avoids using direct God names in Kadavul VAzhthu, but most of them represent Hindu Purana Traditions,
Let's hear from her some evidence for the cited passage from her posting presently, whilst consuming uppuma or whatever -ma for breakfast.
Devipriya, please carry on. I am all ready to hear.......
¾¢ÕìÌÈû Ò¾¢Â ¯¨Ã, §ÀẢâÂ÷: Dr ¿Åሠ¦ºø¨Ä¡, M.A., D.Ltt., D. Ed. ±Ø¾¢ÂÐ. þ¾ýÀÊ:
«ó¾½ý = ?
«ÈÅ¡Æ¢ «ó¾½ý: (ÌÈû 8) ¸ð¼¨Ç þθ¢È ÅøĨÁ ¦ÀüÈ ÌÕ.
«ó¾½÷ ±ý§À¡÷ «È§Å¡÷: (ÌÈû: 30). «Æ¸¢Â ¾£ÀÁ¡¸ ´Ç¢÷(ÀÅ÷).
À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¸û: ÓÉ¢Å÷.
þÅ÷ ¯¨Ã «ÈòÐôÀ¡ÖìÌ ÁðΧÁ ¦ÅÇ¢ÅóÐûÇЧÀ¡ø (Nov.2000) §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ. (ሧÁ¡¸ý À¾¢ôÀ¸õ, 8, §À¡Ä¢Š ÌÅ÷ð¼÷Š§Ã¡Î, T.¿¸÷, ¦ºý¨É, 600017, ¦¾¡¨Ä§Àº¢: 4342232).
If the commentary for porudpaal has been published, please let me know.Thanks
¬¾¢À¸Åý ±ýÀÐ Ýâ À¸Å¨Éì (À¸Å¡¨Éì) ÌÈ¢ôÀÐ ±ýÀÐ Ó¨ÉÅ÷ ¿Åሠ¦ºø¨Ä¡ «Å÷¸Ç¢ý Å¢Çì¸õ.
¬ >¬Ì > ¬ì¸õ (¬Ì +«õ)
¬ > ¬¾¢ (¬+¾¢). ¾¢ ±ýÀÐ suffix À¢ý¦É¡ðÎ «øÄРŢ̾¢.
±É§Å ¬¾¢ ±ýÀÐ ¾Á¢§Æ¡Ìõ ±ýÀÐ þÅ÷ ¸ÕòÐ ±ÉÄ¡õ.
¬ì¸§Á ¦¾¡¼ì¸õ. ¬¾¢§Â ¦¾¡¼ì¸õ.
þó¾î ¦º¡ø ¾Á¢úî ¦º¡øÄ¡ì¸ Ó¨È¸Ç¢ýÀʨÁó¾ ¦º¡øÄ¡Ìõ.
¬¾õ ±ýÈ ¦º¡ø¨ÄÔõ "¬" ±ýÈ Ó¾É¢¨Ä§Â¡Î þÅ÷ ¦¾¡¼÷Ò ÀÎòÐÅЧÀ¡ø ¦¾Ã¢¸¢ÈÐ.
À¸× + «ý = À¸Åý ±ýÚ À¢Ã¢òÐûÇ¡÷.
¦Á¡Æ¢»¡Â¢Ú §¾Å§¿Âô À¡Å¡½÷, ÒÄÅ÷ ÌÆó¨¾ ¬¸¢§Â¡÷ §À¡ø, þÅÕõ þ¡ø¨Ä «¨¼Â¡Çõ ¸ñÎûÇ¡÷ ±ýÀÐ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ò¾ì¸Ð.
Dr ¦ºø¨Ä¡ ÓõÓ¨È þó¾¢Â §¾º¢Â Å¢ÕÐ ¦ÀüÈÅ÷ ±ýÀÐõ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ò ¾ì¸Ð.
§ÀẢâÂ÷ ¿Åሠ¦ºø¨Ä¡ «Å÷¸Ç¢ý ¯¨Ã¢ø ÀÄ Ò¾¢Â §¸¡½í¸Ç¢Ä¢ÕóÐ ¦À¡ÕûÅ¢Çì¸õ ¦ºöÐûǨÁ ÒÄôÀθ¢ýÈÐ.
Áí¸Äõ ±ýÀ Á¨ÉÁ¡ðº¢ ±Û󦾡¼ì¸òÐì ÌÈÙìÌ, Áñ¸Äõ ±ýÈ À¡¼§Á ¦¸¡ñÎ ¯¨ÃÅÌòÐûÇ¡÷. «Å÷ À¡÷¨Å¢ø Áñ¸Äõ > Áí¸Äõ ±ýÚ ¦¸¡ñÎûÇ¡÷ §À¡Öõ.
Dear Friends,
We have a Peculiar situation; with Bismala wants to make Tiruvalluvar to say what they want to Mean and there by twisting Tirukural and Making it meaningless. I quote:
//«ó¾½ý = ?
«ÈÅ¡Æ¢ «ó¾½ý: (ÌÈû 8) ¸ð¼¨Ç þθ¢È ÅøĨÁ ¦ÀüÈ ÌÕ.
«ó¾½÷ ±ý§À¡÷ «È§Å¡÷: (ÌÈû: 30). «Æ¸¢Â ¾£ÀÁ¡¸ ´Ç¢÷(ÀÅ÷).
À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¸û: ÓÉ¢Å÷.//
Bismala can you show me a Single “À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¸û” either for Tirukural or THolkappiyam- like the one and name the Urai Asiriyar. you have said or the author you have claimed said. I have given you that as per Maxmuller and Gilbert Slater that Casteism is not the part of Vedas.
ÁÛÅ¢ø ÌÈ¢ì¸ôÀðÎ þýÚ ÅÆ츢ÖûÇ º¡¾¢ Ó¨È §Å¾í¸Ç¢ý Á¢¸ô ÀƨÁÂ¡É ºÁÂò ¾òÐÅí¸Ç¢ø þ¼õ ¦ÀÚ¸¢È¾¡? "þø¨Ä" ±ýÈ ´§Ã¦º¡øÄ¢ø ¿¡õ «¨¾ «Øò¾Á¡¸ ÁÚòÐÅ¢¼Ä¡õ. ¦ÀÕﺢì¸ø Å¡öó¾ º¡¾¢ «¨ÁôÒ Ó¨Èò ¾¢ð¼òÐìÌ §Å¾ Ýì¾í¸Ç¢ø ±ò¾¨¸Â ¾ÃÓõ þø¨Ä. «Ð §À¡Ä§Å Ýò¾¢Ãâý þÆ¢¾¨¸ ¿¢¨Ä¨ÁìÌ ¾¡Ã§Á¡; Àø§ÅÚ ÅÌôÀ¢É÷ ´Õí§¸ ÌØÁ¢ Å¡Æ, ´Õí§¸ ¯ñ½ô ÀÕ¸ò ¾¨¼ Å¢¾¢ìÌõ ±ó¾î ºð¼§Á¡; Àø§ÅÚ º¡¾¢Â¢É÷ ¾õÓû ´ÕÅÕ즸¡ÕÅ÷ Á½ ¯È× ¦¸¡ûŨ¾ò ¾ÎìÌõ ӨȨÁ§Â¡; «ò¾¨¸Â Á½ ¯ÈÅ¡ø ÅÕõ À¢û¨Ç¸ÙìÌ Å¢Äì¸ ÓÊ¡¾ ¾£ìÌȢ¢ðÎð ¾£ñøò¾¸¡¾ÅḠ´Ð츢 ¨ÅìÌõ ¸ðÎôÀ¡§¼¡; ±Ð×õ «ÅüÈ¢ø þø¨Ä. «òмý º¢Åý, ¸¡Ç¢ ¸¢ÂÅ÷¸Ç¢ý «îºó ¾Õõ ¦ºÂø Өȸ¨Çô ÀüÈ£§Â¡; ¸ñ½É¢ý º¢üÈ¢ýÀì ¸Ç¢Â¡ð¼õ ÀüÈ¢§Â¡; .. ... §Åò¾¢ø ´Õ ÍÅÎ Ü¼ì ¸¢¨¼Â¡Ð. ¸¼×ÙìÌâ Á¾¢ô¨Àò ¾¦Á¦¾Éì ¦¸¡ñÎ ÀÆ¢ÝØõ ´Õ ÌÕÁ¡÷ ÌØÅ¢ý Å£õÒâ¨Á¸û, ÁÉ¢¾ þÉò¾¢ý þøÄí¸¨Ç Å¢Äí¸¢Éí¸Ç¢Ûõ ¸¢Æ¡¸ þÆ¢× ÀÎòÐõ Ó¨È ¸¢ÂÅü¨È ¾Ã¢ìÌõ ±ó¾î ºð¼Óõ «ÅüÈ¢ø þø¨Ä. ÌÆó¨¾ Á½ò¾¢üÌ ¾Ã§Å¡, ÌÆó¨¾ Å¢¾¨Å¸û Á½ò¨¾ò ¾¨¼¦ºö§š ¸½Åý À¢½òмý ¯Â¢ÕûÇ ¨¸õ¦Àñ½¢ý ¯¼¨ÄÔõ ¨Åò¦¾Ã¢ìÌõ ¦À¡øÄ¡ô ÀÆì¸ò¨¾ ¾Ã¢Å¢ì¸§Å¡ «¾¢ø ´Õ Å¡º¸í Ü¼ì ¸¢¨¼Â¡Ð. þ¨Å ¡×õ §Å¾ò¾¢ý ¦º¡øÖìÌõ ¦À¡ÕÙì̧Á Á¡ÚÀð¼¨Å." Quote fr0m Maxmuler “þó¾¢Â ¿¡¸Ã¢¸ò¾¢ø ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ô ÀñÒ”- ¸¢øÀ÷𠺢§Äð¼÷, ¾Á¢ú ¸¡.«ôÀ¡Ð¨Ã. Àì¸õ 40,41.
NOW SAYINg this word is Tamil, by trying to work out some root, in most cases the pattern which is used does not consider the Historic Linguistics- the usage of the relevant period Sangam Literature or others. And whether these roots follow Tholkappiyam rules of WordS.
In most cases - No ? why You go by assumptions and not by Actual HISTORICAL Truths.
Now on Kurals where valluvar referred Anthanar, and what does it mean- there is no use quoting various Authors- who tells what MAla wants. For the Benefit of all Viewers - I take from Madurai Kamarajar University’s Kural Peedam established by Mu.Varadarajanar, and Peedam selected Lecturer. Selvi.Kamatchi Sinivasan, who was born in a Saivite family in Srilanka, came to India, served various collages before Joining the Kural Peedam. She had converted to Christianity also. She was of highest repute for integrity, and Peedam asked her to bring Books
1. ÌÈû ÜÚõ ºÓ¾¡Âõ
2. ¾¢ÕÌÈÙõ ŢŢĢÂÓõ (Tirukural and Bible)
3. ÌÈû ÜÚõ ºÁÂõ ( Religion of Tirukural) and One more also.
The books were published by Peetam after the death of the Author, i.e., the views represented edited by A team of Experts who made final Edition.
The Author was selected for Her Strict Integrity, being a Christian Convert- as that was the time Deivanayagam was making with the political support of DMK rule and Pavanar links that Tiruvalluvar was Christian and Tirukural is a book based on Bible. The end result was that the Author Madam lost her beliefs on Christianity on researching Bible. Now let me come to the references of Anthanar in this.
«ó¾½÷ ±ý§À¡÷ «È§Å¡÷Áü ¦Èù×¢÷ ìÌõ
¦ºó¾ñ¨Á âñ¦¼¡Ø¸ Ä¡ý. 30
The author of the book analysises the Relligious situation in Tholkappiyam to and takes all references of every song in Sangam Literature, Tholkappiyam, Silapathikaram and Manimekhalai and confirms the research view.
I QUOTE:
«ó¾½÷ Ñ¡üÌõ «Èò¾¢üÌõ ¾¢Â¡ö
¿¢ýÈÐ ÁýÉÅý §¸¡ø. 543
«ó¾½÷ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡üÌ ±ù×¢÷Ìõ ¦ºó¾ñ¨Á âñ¦¼¡Ø̧š÷ ±É ÅûÙÅ÷ ÜȢɡá¢Ûõ þíÌ «î¦º¡ø À¢ÃÁ¡½¨Ãì ÌÈ¢ôÀ¾¡¸ì ¦¸¡ûŦ¾ ¦À¡ÕóÐõ. «ó¾½÷ áø ±ýÀÐõ §Å¾õ ӾĢ ºÁÂëø¸¨Ç§Â ±ÉÄ¡õ. þùÅ¡§È À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¡º¢Ã¢Â÷¸û «¨ÉÅÕõ ¦À¡Õû ¦¸¡ñ¼É÷.
«Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ ±É º¢Ã¢Â÷ ÌÈ¢À¢ð¼Ðõ À¢ÃÁ¡½÷¸¨Ç§Â ¡¾¡ø §ÅñÎõ. µ¾ø, µÐÅ¢ò¾ø, §Åð¼ø, §ÅðÀ¢ò¾ø, ®¾ø ²üÈø ±ýÛõ Ú ¦¾¡Æ¢ø¸û «Å÷ìÌâ ±ýÀÐ ºí¸ ¸¡Äò¾¢ø Óý¦À ÅÌì¸ôÀð¼Ð. þùÅ¡Ú ¦¾¡Æ¢ø¸û À¾¢üÚÀò¾¢ÛûÙõ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ôÀðÎûÇÉ.
µ¾ø §Åð¼ø «¨ÅÀ¢È÷î ¦ºö¾ø
®¾ø ²üÈø ±ýÚ ÚÒâóÐ ´ØÌõ
«Èõ Òâ «ó¾½÷ .. .. À¾¢üÚÀò¾Ð 24.
¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢ÂÕõ
“ «ÚŨ¸ôÀð¼ À¡÷ôÀÉô Àì¸Óõ ¦º¡ø-75
±Éô À¡÷ôÀÉâý «Ú¦¾¡Æ¢¨Äì ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ð¼¡÷. §Å¾õ ӾĢ ºÁÂáø¸¨Çì ¸üÀÐ º¢ÈôÀ¡¸ «ó¾½÷ (À¢ÃÁ¡½÷) ¸¼¨Á ±É «ì¸¡ÄòÐ ¿¢ÄŢ ¸Õò¨¾ ÅûÙÅÕõ ²üÚì ¦¸¡ñ¼¡÷ §À¡Öõ.
µÐÅ¢ò¾Öõ «Å÷¸û ¦¾¡Æ¢ø ¨¸Â¢É¡ø «ó¾½÷ «øÄ¡¾ À¢È÷ìÌõ
(ÁýÉÅ÷ Ž¢¸÷ ÌÄò¾Åá?) §Å¾õ ӾĢ áø¸¨Çì ¸üÀ¢òòÅ÷ ±Éì ¸Õ¾Ä¡õ.
ÀÂý ÌýÚõ «Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ Ñ¡øÁÈôÀ÷
¸¡ÅÄý ¸¡Å¡ý ±É¢ý. 560
Áì¸û Å¡ú쨸¢ø §Å¾õ ӾĢ º¨ÁÂáü¸øÅ¢ìÌ þ¼õ ¯ñÎ, «¨Å Áì¸ðÌ ¿ý¨Á ÀÂôÀÉ ±ýÈ ¸ÕòÐ ²üÚì ¦¸¡ûÇô ÀΞɡ§Ä§Â «Åü¨È ¾Ã¢ôÀÐ ÁýÉÉ¢ý ¸¼¨Á¡¢üÚ.
¸¡ÅÄý ¸¡Å¡¦ÉÉ¢ý «Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ Ñ¡øÁÈôÀ÷ ±É ±îºÃ¢ì¸ô ÀÎÅÐõ ºÁ áø¸û ÁÈì¸ô Àξø ºÓ¾¡Âò¾¢üÌ §¸Î ±Éì ¸Õ¾ô ÀΞɡ§Ä§Â.
ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ µòÐì ¦¸¡ÇÄ¡Ìõ À¡÷ôÀ¡ý
À¢Èô¦À¡Øì¸í ÌýÈì ¦¸Îõ. 134
þìÌÈû À¡÷ôÀ¡¨ÃÔõ «Å÷ µÐõ §Å¾ò¨¾Ô§Á ÌȢ츢Ȧ¾ýÀÐ ¦¾Ç¢×. “ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ µòÐì ¦¸¡ÇÄ¡Ìõ” (134) ±ýÈ ¦¾¡¼Õõ À¡÷ôÀ¡ý µò¨¾(§Å¾õ µ¾ì¸üȨ¾) ÁÈò¾Ä¡¸¡Ð. ´Õ¸¡ø ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ Å¢¨ÃÅ¢ø ¾¢ÕõÀ µ¾¢ì ¸üÚì ¦¸¡ûÇø §ÅñÎõ ±ýü ¸Õò¨¾ò ¾Õõ
Àì¸õ-194,195.
On Kural which was interpreted as Valluvar being against Vedas, the Peedam Author again confirms
«Å¢¦º¡Ã¢ó ¾¡Â¢Ãõ §Åð¼Ä¢ý ´ýÈý
¯Â¢÷¦ºÌò Ðñ½¡¨Á ¿ýÚ. 259
¾£ ãðÊ ¦ºöÂô ÀÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¨Âì â ÅÆ¢À¡Î ӨȨ§ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ô Àθ¢ýÈÐ. §¾Å÷¸ÙìÌ ¯½Å¡¸ò ¾£Â¢Ä¢¼ÀÎõ ¦À¡Õ¨Ç§Â ż¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø †Å¢Š ±ýÀ÷, «Ð§Å ¾Á¢Æ¢ø “«Å¢” ¡¢üÚ, .. «Å¢ô¦À¡Õû¸¨Ç ¦¿ÕôÀ¢ø ¦º¡Ã¢óР¢Ãõ §ÅûÅ¢ ¦ºöŨ¾ Å¢¼ ´ýÈ¢ý ¯Â¢÷ ¦ºÌòÐ «¾ý °¨É ¯ñ½¡¨Á ¿ýÚ ±É ÅûÙÅ÷ þíÌ ÜȢɡ÷. þ¾É¡ø §ÅûÅ¢ ¾£ÂÐ ±É ÅûÙÅ÷ ¸Õ¾¢É¡÷ ±Éø ÌÁ¡? §ÅûÅ¢¨ÂÔõ ¿øľ¡¸ì ¸Õ¾¢ò¾¡§É §ÅûÅ¢ ¦ºö¾¨Ä Å¢¼ì ¦¸¡øÄ¡¨Á ¿ýÚ ±ýÈ¡÷. .. .. â §ÅûÅ¢ì¸Çò¾¢Ö§Á ¯Â¢÷즸¡¨ÄÔõ Å¢ÄíÌÀÄ¢Ôõ þø¨Ä. ÀÍ¡¸õ ±ÉôÀÎõ º¢Ä §ÅûÅ¢¸Ç¢ø ÁðΧÁ Å¢ÄíÌÀÄ¢ÂÇ¢ôÀ÷. ¦¿ö, À¡ø, ¾¡É¢Âí¸û ¾¡É¢Âí¸Ç¢É¡ø ¦ºöÂôÀð¼ ¯½×ô ¦À¡Õð¸û ¸¢ÂÅü¨È ¦¿ÕôÀ¢Ä¢ðÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¸û ¦ºöÅ÷ ( Author quotes this from " INDIA OF THE AGE OF THE BRAMANAS" book-iii, CHAP-2, The forms of Sacrifice- by Basu, Dr.Jogiraj.). ±É§Å ¯Â¢÷ì ¦¸¡¨Ä¢ýÈ¢ þùÅ¡Ú ¦ºöÂôÀÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¸û ÅûÙÅ÷ìÌ ¯¼ýÀ¡Î ±ý§È ¦¸¡ûÇÄ¡õ. Àì¸õ - 192,193.
FSG, Bismala, Idiyappam etc., has a peculiar problem, of denying the Indian Heritage, and the part played by every section of Indians.
Tiruvalluvar must be viewed by what Valluvar said, and Not by Misinterpretting Tirukural.
I intend to cover in History section of Indian Heritage- as to how Vedas are touched in Sangam Lit. and Tholkappiyam and also views of Pavanar etc., on this. I certainly do not believe Casteism is right or that any caste is superior, and though I Had this book for long, I did not want to put these, as Mala-FSG-iDIYappam-mahadevan etc., views in page no 6,7 as unwarranted blabbers need to be ignored, in spite of Anchaneya giving Verbatim of MuVa and others Vurais. As Mala started to quote again from Partial Author’s views, I have put this.
All references of Vetham, Naalvetham, Maarai etc, in Sangam Lit. only refers to Inidan Vedas, and I intend to give more on this in appropriate threads.
Leave Kural from these few Couplets if that is not to your liking. Ofcourse knowing these E.V.Ramasamy Naicker of Dravidian Movement said- “ ¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢Âý âÂì ÜÄ¢. â ¾÷Áò¨¾§Â ¾Á¢ú þÄ츽Á¡¸î ¦ºöРŢð¼ Á¡¦ÀÕõ ЧḢ.
¾¢ÕÅûÙÅý «ì¸¡Äò¾¢üÌ ²üÈ Å¨¸Â¢ø â ¸ÕòÐìÌ ¾Ã× ¦¸¡ÎìÌõ «ÇÅ¢ø ÀÌò¾È¢¨Åô ôüÈ¢ ¸Å¨Äô À¼¡Áø ¿£¾£ ÜÚõ ӨȢø ¾ÉÐ Á¾ ¯½÷§Â¡Î ²§¾¡ ÜÈ¢î ¦ºýÈ¡÷. ôì¸õ 7 ¾Á¢Øõ ¾Á¢ÆÕõ.
Take views of Valluvar on Vegetarianism and God fearing and speaking truths, please,and more and more evidences can be added, but please stop with misinterpretations.
DEVAPRIYA.
OK, Devapriya aka Uppumaa aka Soloman!!Quote:
FSG, Bismala, Idiyappam etc., has a peculiar problem, of denying the Indian Heritage, and the part played by every section of Indians.
You must first determine when the BrahmaNas were first ordained and where.
Were they a section of the Tamil community, selected from within the community in the Tamil-speaking region or were they from outside Tamil areas?
You have to determine these and few other basic questions first.
I have already said in my post that Dr Navaraj Chelliah's urai is "Puthu Urai". He is not following any old commentary. So why do you bring in the old commentaries, I do not understand. You are not prevented from reading old commentaries. You are free to do so. Si what's your problem?Quote:
We have a Peculiar situation; with Bismala wants to make Tiruvalluvar to say what they want to Mean and there by twisting Tirukural and Making it meaningless. I quote:
//«ó¾½ý = ?
«ÈÅ¡Æ¢ «ó¾½ý: (ÌÈû 8) ¸ð¼¨Ç þθ¢È ÅøĨÁ ¦ÀüÈ ÌÕ.
«ó¾½÷ ±ý§À¡÷ «È§Å¡÷: (ÌÈû: 30). «Æ¸¢Â ¾£ÀÁ¡¸ ´Ç¢÷(ÀÅ÷).
À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¸û: ÓÉ¢Å÷.//
Bismala can you show me a Single “À¨Æ ¯¨Ã¸û” either for Tirukural or THolkappiyam- like the one and name the Urai Asiriyar. you have said or the author you have claimed said. I have given you that as per Maxmuller and Gilbert Slater that Casteism is not the part of Vedas.
//ÁÛÅ¢ø ÌÈ¢ì¸ôÀðÎ ..........................................“þó¾¢Â ¿¡¸Ã¢¸ò¾¢ø ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ô ÀñÒ”- ¸¢øÀ÷𠺢§Äð¼÷, ¾Á¢ú ¸¡.«ôÀ¡Ð¨Ã. Àì¸õ 40,41.//
What's the relevance? This thread is about kuRaL and not manu and vedas!!
//NOW SAYINg this word is Tamil, by trying to work out some root, in most cases the pattern which is used does not consider the Historic Linguistics- the usage of the relevant period Sangam Literature or others. And whether these roots follow Tholkappiyam rules of WordS.
In most cases - No ? why You go by assumptions and not by Actual HISTORICAL Truths. //
Is the word "anthaNar" a Sanskrit word according to you? What then is the root according to your historical linguistics? What are the Tolkaappiyam rules on words?
I have told you many times before that such words are not used in the casteist sense in Sangam Lit.
//§¾Å÷¸ÙìÌ ¯½Å¡¸ò ¾£Â¢Ä¢¼ÀÎõ ¦À¡Õ¨Ç§Â ż¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø †Å¢Š ±ýÀ÷,//
It is quite clear to me that avi means aviththal (thiiyiduthal). It is a Tamil word and not the other way round. You are probably the author of the book in disguise and under a different name!!
//«Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ ±É º¢Ã¢Â÷ ÌÈ¢À¢ð¼Ðõ À¢ÃÁ¡½÷¸¨Ç§Â ¡¾¡ø §ÅñÎõ.//
This is the writer's opinion. Anyone can express any opinion. It is a free world with freedom of speech.
Please do a research for me. Read the Rig Veda and find out if the six jobs (aRuthozil) is mentioned in it!! Then let me have the quotation.
//Leave Kural from these few Couplets if that is not to your liking.//
You leave it alone if it is not to your liking and please close shop.
"§Å¾õ ¿¡ý¸¢Ûõ ¦Áö¦À¡ÕÇ¡ÅÐ" ±ýÈ ¦¾¡¼Ã¢ø, "¿¡ñ¸¢Ûõ" ±ýÀÐ "¿¡ý¸¢¨ÉÔõ ¸¼óÐ" «øÄÐ "¿¡ý¸¢¨ÉÔõ Å¢¼" ±ýÈ ´ôÀ£ðÎô ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø Åó¾Ð ±ýÚ ÓýÒ ´Õ ¾¢Ã¢Â¢ø ¦¾Ã¢Å¢ò¾¢Õó§¾ý.
"¿¡ñ¸¢É¢É¢Ûõ" ±ýÚ Åó¾¡ø¾¡ý ´ôÀ£ðÎô ¦À¡Õû ±ýÚ º¢Ä÷ «È¢Â¡Ð ÁÚòШÃò¾É÷.
þô§À¡Ð «ôÀÊ ÁÚôҨà ¦ºöÅÐ ¾ôÒ ±ýÀ¨¾ Å¢ÇìÌÓ¸Á¡¸. þÕ ÌÈû¸¨Çò ¾Õ¸¢§Èý.
"¾õÁ¢ý¾õ Áì¸û «È¢×¨¼¨Á" ±ýÚ ¦¾¡¼íÌõ ÌÈÇ¢ø, ´Õ "þý" ÁðΧÁ Åó¾Ð. þý ±ýÈ ¯Õ§À¡Î ¯õ ÅÃÅ¢ø¨Ä.
"¾õÁ¢ü ¦Àâ¡÷ ¾¡Áá ´Ø̾ø
Åý¨ÁÔø ±øÄ¡õ ¾¨Ä".
¾õÁ¢ý ¦Àâ¡÷ ±ýÀÐ ¾õ¨ÁÅ¢¼ô ¦ÀâÂÅ÷ ±ýÈ ´À£ðÎô ¦À¡ÕÇ¢ø ÅÕ¸¢ÈÐ. þÃñÎ =þý §¾¨Å¢ø¨Ä ±ýÀÐõ þýÛ¼ý ¯õ §¾¨Å þø¨Ä ±ýÀÐõ ¦ÀÈôÀÎõ.
Many times earlier in this thread the wrong meaning of kural expressed by Vedhic pratogonists were clearly explained by me with adequate historical & linguistic facts.
And Hats off :!: to bis_mala taking pains to explain now the exact meaning of kural in this thread.
One Vedha manthra that these pratogonists follow is "Repeating lies again and again will come believable truth". This has been done by them all along their propogation centuries to centuries. In world history "koyabales" of Nazi Germany is an example.
However, for sample, I want to give the exact meaning of "Aruthozilore" as under. Anybody who wants to know the exact meaning of kural kindly go through www.tamilvu.org. Readers can also follow this website for exact meaning of kural.
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In the above Devaneyap Paavaanar refers "Thivakaram Nikandu" - a dictionary of tamil which clearly specifies six types of people of six jobs.
f.s.gandhi
Hello Mr. FSG,
Nice to see back in forum after a long time. I definetly felt void with your absence in this section. Please keep in constant touch with this section for the good of Tamil Enthusiasts like me...
Nandri, Vanakkam
Thank you FSG for the wonderful explanation and excellent references you have given. You have hit the nail right on the head and demolished the lies. It is our good fortune you found time to visit and explain. Best regards.
Here are 2 kuRaLgaL
epporuL yaar yaar vaay kEtpinum apporuL
meyporuL kaNbathaRivu
epporuL eththanmai yaayinum apporuL
meyporuL kaNbathaRivu
I find these two kuRaLs are almost same!
Anybody disagrees with me :?:
The first one refers to materials reaching you from others, whoever those persons are.Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger
The second one refers to "whatever the inherent qualities, properties, or nature etc of a subject-matter before you for your consideration, analysis, opinion, treatment etc.,, " you should ascertain the "truth" contained in it. MeipporuL has a wider and deeper meaning than just "truth" and so I put in inverted commas.
The first one: is a "consumer rule".
The second one is an "originator rule".
That wld probably make it clearer.
I would not want to translate "meipporuL". The term also appeared in "vEtham naanginum meipporuL".
Thanks Mr. Chappani & Miss. bis_mala. I always like to keep in touch with you friends. I went native TamilNadu for my vacation. I enjoyed pongal. I hope everybody enjoyed pongal.
I could not visit hub often because of my held up. Sorry!
f.s.gandhi
Quote:
Originally Posted by bis_mala
Thanks, mala :)
Well, I am fine, meyporuL means "truth".
"epporuL yaar yaar vaay kEtpinum" : I thought it meant an explanation offered by a someone or a statement given by someone ( a teacher or a critic or a parent or a lunatic or any genius including thiruvaLLuvar :)).
Dont worry who said that, just carefully see the "truth" no matter who says it.
Am I right or wrong here :?:
You are right; and the meaning can be expanded, "Yaaryaar vaaik kEtpinum" can be expanded to all kinds of hearsay, materials from any teacher or preacher or other persons directly instructing. and intermeddiaries through which such statements traverse.Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger
vaai means mouth (oral) as well as "way" or "medium:, vaai > Latin via.
So it is not just mouth here as I mentioned and it is more than that!Quote:
vaai means mouth (oral) as well as "way" or "medium:, vaai > Latin via.
Thanks, I got you now! :smile2:
Sorry, I had to attend to something in between and had to leave my desk for more than half an hour.
keetpinum : the word kEL refers to simple hearing of something as well as hearing instructions, discourses, lectures etc of higher quality.
Consider:
¸üÈÄ¢ü §¸ð¼ø ¿ýÚ,
¸üÈ¢Äɡ¢Ûõ §¸ð¸!
¦ºøÅòÐû ¦ºøÅõ ¦ºÅ¢î¦ºøÅõ. «î¦ºøÅõ....!
The main medium of imparting knowledge in the days of VaLLuvar and beyond was by listening to a guru than by reading. There weren't many copies of treatises to put one in every student's (for that matter any other's) hands. So VaLLuvar considered that it was (is) important to devote one kuRaL solely and specifically to cover such situations and events (The greater incidence of "kELvi" alone would demand a separate and specialized treatment of the matter, if not for any other reason. ). My guru ¾Á¢Æ¡º¢Ã¢Â÷ was quite clear on this point when I was reading and learning Tamil with him.
Also, kELvi ( a method of learning) was always contrasted with ¸øÅ¢ kalvi (another method of learning). The interaction between guru or aasiriyan and maaNavan was emphasized a great deal in Tamil tradition, (may be in other traditions too). (Even among the Chinese).
So, you go to a guru, he doesn’t give you a copy of Tolkaappiyam but gives you one verse a day and explains, whacks you so that you memorize it and do not forget it and in the end you have the whole Tolkaapiyam in your head and when you become a teacher yourself, you will instruct from your memory.....even if you do not have a copy of Tolkaappiyam which was enormous task in those days to make. Not everyone could write large volumes like that with the ±Øò¾¡½¢!
I have more to say on "kEtpinum". We shall discuss - some other time.
According to Confucius, people know a person from what he says. So a Chinese has a business talk with you, he will listen carefully, looking for hidden meanings, trying to understand you thoroughly.
Do you read your tamil script??? I could not unless I cut and paste in the word and use e-kalppai to read.
How did you set up your fonts in internet option to read the tamil script given here???
Thanks! :)
Well done DEVAPRIYA,
HAVE BROUGHT THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY OF Tirukural Interpretation, If I REMember correct, M.Karunanidhi suggested for Universities to form Kural REsearch units and the Peetam was formed and you have got the excellent reference.
For the Benefit of all Viewers - I take from Madurai Kamarajar University’s Kural Peedam established by Mu.Varadarajanar, and Peedam selected Lecturer. Selvi.Kamatchi Sinivasan, who was born in a Saivite family in Srilanka, came to India, served various collages before Joining the Kural Peedam. She had converted to Christianity also. She was of highest repute for integrity, and Peedam asked her to bring Books
1. ÌÈû ÜÚõ ºÓ¾¡Âõ
2. ¾¢ÕÌÈÙõ ŢŢĢÂÓõ (Tirukural and Bible)
3. ÌÈû ÜÚõ ºÁÂõ ( Religion of Tirukural) and One more also.
The books were published by Peetam after the death of the Author, i.e., the views represented edited by A team of Experts who made final Edition.
The Author was selected for Her Strict Integrity, being a Christian Convert- as that was the time Deivanayagam was making with the political support of DMK rule and Pavanar links that Tiruvalluvar was Christian and Tirukural is a book based on Bible. The end result was that the Author Madam lost her beliefs on Christianity on researching Bible. Now let me come to the references of Anthanar in this.
«ó¾½÷ ±ý§À¡÷ «È§Å¡÷Áü ¦Èù×¢÷ ìÌõ
¦ºó¾ñ¨Á âñ¦¼¡Ø¸ Ä¡ý. 30
The author of the book analysises the Relligious situation in Tholkappiyam to and takes all references of every song in Sangam Literature, Tholkappiyam, Silapathikaram and Manimekhalai and confirms the research view.
I QUOTE:
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ÀÂý ÌýÚõ «Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ Ñ¡øÁÈôÀ÷
¸¡ÅÄý ¸¡Å¡ý ±É¢ý. 560
Áì¸û Å¡ú쨸¢ø §Å¾õ ӾĢ º¨ÁÂáü¸øÅ¢ìÌ þ¼õ ¯ñÎ, «¨Å Áì¸ðÌ ¿ý¨Á ÀÂôÀÉ ±ýÈ ¸ÕòÐ ²üÚì ¦¸¡ûÇô ÀΞɡ§Ä§Â «Åü¨È ¾Ã¢ôÀÐ ÁýÉÉ¢ý ¸¼¨Á¡¢üÚ.
¸¡ÅÄý ¸¡Å¡¦ÉÉ¢ý «Ú¦¾¡Æ¢§Ä¡÷ Ñ¡øÁÈôÀ÷ ±É ±îºÃ¢ì¸ô ÀÎÅÐõ ºÁ áø¸û ÁÈì¸ô Àξø ºÓ¾¡Âò¾¢üÌ §¸Î ±Éì ¸Õ¾ô ÀΞɡ§Ä§Â.
ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ µòÐì ¦¸¡ÇÄ¡Ìõ À¡÷ôÀ¡ý
À¢Èô¦À¡Øì¸í ÌýÈì ¦¸Îõ. 134
þìÌÈû À¡÷ôÀ¡¨ÃÔõ «Å÷ µÐõ §Å¾ò¨¾Ô§Á ÌȢ츢Ȧ¾ýÀÐ ¦¾Ç¢×. “ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ µòÐì ¦¸¡ÇÄ¡Ìõ” (134) ±ýÈ ¦¾¡¼Õõ À¡÷ôÀ¡ý µò¨¾(§Å¾õ µ¾ì¸üȨ¾) ÁÈò¾Ä¡¸¡Ð. ´Õ¸¡ø ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ Å¢¨ÃÅ¢ø ¾¢ÕõÀ µ¾¢ì ¸üÚì ¦¸¡ûÇø §ÅñÎõ ±ýü ¸Õò¨¾ò ¾Õõ
Àì¸õ-194,195.
On Kural which was interpreted as Valluvar being against Vedas, the Peedam Author again confirms
«Å¢¦º¡Ã¢ó ¾¡Â¢Ãõ §Åð¼Ä¢ý ´ýÈý
¯Â¢÷¦ºÌò Ðñ½¡¨Á ¿ýÚ. 259
¾£ ãðÊ ¦ºöÂô ÀÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¨Âì â ÅÆ¢À¡Î ӨȨ§ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢¼ô Àθ¢ýÈÐ. §¾Å÷¸ÙìÌ ¯½Å¡¸ò ¾£Â¢Ä¢¼ÀÎõ ¦À¡Õ¨Ç§Â ż¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢ø †Å¢Š ±ýÀ÷, «Ð§Å ¾Á¢Æ¢ø “«Å¢” ¡¢üÚ, .. «Å¢ô¦À¡Õû¸¨Ç ¦¿ÕôÀ¢ø ¦º¡Ã¢óР¢Ãõ §ÅûÅ¢ ¦ºöŨ¾ Å¢¼ ´ýÈ¢ý ¯Â¢÷ ¦ºÌòÐ «¾ý °¨É ¯ñ½¡¨Á ¿ýÚ ±É ÅûÙÅ÷ þíÌ ÜȢɡ÷. þ¾É¡ø §ÅûÅ¢ ¾£ÂÐ ±É ÅûÙÅ÷ ¸Õ¾¢É¡÷ ±Éø ÌÁ¡? §ÅûÅ¢¨ÂÔõ ¿øľ¡¸ì ¸Õ¾¢ò¾¡§É §ÅûÅ¢ ¦ºö¾¨Ä Å¢¼ì ¦¸¡øÄ¡¨Á ¿ýÚ ±ýÈ¡÷. .. .. â §ÅûÅ¢ì¸Çò¾¢Ö§Á ¯Â¢÷즸¡¨ÄÔõ Å¢ÄíÌÀÄ¢Ôõ þø¨Ä. ÀÍ¡¸õ ±ÉôÀÎõ º¢Ä §ÅûÅ¢¸Ç¢ø ÁðΧÁ Å¢ÄíÌÀÄ¢ÂÇ¢ôÀ÷. ¦¿ö, À¡ø, ¾¡É¢Âí¸û ¾¡É¢Âí¸Ç¢É¡ø ¦ºöÂôÀð¼ ¯½×ô ¦À¡Õð¸û ¸¢ÂÅü¨È ¦¿ÕôÀ¢Ä¢ðÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¸û ¦ºöÅ÷ ( Author quotes this from " INDIA OF THE AGE OF THE BRAMANAS" book-iii, CHAP-2, The forms of Sacrifice- by Basu, Dr.Jogiraj.). ±É§Å ¯Â¢÷ì ¦¸¡¨Ä¢ýÈ¢ þùÅ¡Ú ¦ºöÂôÀÎõ §ÅûÅ¢¸û ÅûÙÅ÷ìÌ ¯¼ýÀ¡Î ±ý§È ¦¸¡ûÇÄ¡õ. Àì¸õ - 192,193.
We need to look Tirukural as what Valluvar said and not what Fsg or his milder avatar Bismala wants in it.
Your Research has brought the cat out. well done.
Pavanar's interpretation itself is the best proof,as how he has moved away from his earlier book and totally written on false assumptions and without any Scriptural support from Sangam to Manimekhalai.
You have been using very different sources than what Brother Solomon used, can you check library and give how Pavanr as a Missionary duped Tamils in this falsehood interpretation and helped Deivanayagam
well done devapriya, the Authorities you have quoted are marvellous. continue.
Readers are requested to visit my post in this column on 10th August, 2005 for the forgery done by solomon/Uppuma.
As I said 'Koyabales' misleading propoganda continues by various Avatars of Solomon.
f.s.gandhi
Uppuma = Devapriya = Pavitra = Solomon = Ancheneya = PaulThomas. Keep on saying the same thing..
You said Maxmuller was paid to do his job!! Can you tell us who among those quoted by you had also been paid?
The term anthaNar during Sangam age did not refer to any BrahmaNas. Now it may or may not depending on context.
In the North, the word BrahmaNa itself did not mean a caste, in the beginning. It later became a closed group and rigid. In Tamil Nadu, when the BrahmaNas came after the Sangam Age in large numbers and settled, they took over the title anthaNar etc. Please read our posts in which we have explained.
There are no magical words in the kuRaLs and in other references quoted by you and all your avatars. AnthaNar is a simple word.
If you had quoted the author correctly, then, the author is simply wrong.
My interpretation is reaffirmed.
Dear Miss. bis_mala,
I may write about the historical facts Pertaining to this in separate thread.
f.s.gandhi
Dear fsg,
¿¡õ ºí¨¸ °Ð§Å¡õ!!
¾Ã½¢ì¦¸¡øÄ¡õ ±ÎòÐ µÐ§Å¡õ!!
¬É¡ø, ¯ôÒÁ¡ «Å÷¸Ç¢ý¸¡Ð,
±ôÀʦÂýÚ ±ÉìÌò ¦¾Ã¢Â¡Ð!!
ÁüÈ ¿ñÀ÷¸û ÀÂɨ¼ÂðÎõ!! ±ÎòÐ¡øÖí¸û.
Hi, I just downloaded the Murasu Anjal Font, Ensure that Murasu Editor starts with your windows o.s. With that, I think there should not be a problem. Try....Quote:
Originally Posted by stranger
Regards.
Friends,
Thiruvalluvar wrote Kural during a period between Sangam Lit. and Twin Kaapiyams. Tholkaapiyam is written in the middle of The referred Sangam Lit.Period, say close 50-100BCE.
Tholkaapiyar has given very clear classification of Four Varna Classification of Indian Society and gives detail of each Branch its duties and denies most rights to the Fourth Varna. First Varna is named in Tholkaapiyam as Anthanar- Brahmins or AruThozilaar, the last meaning Shadakarma Nishadar. The earlier written before than TholKappiyam, PuraNanuru and all Sangam Lit calls them as Aruthozilar or Aruthozil Anthanar quiet frequently, and in most cases with references with Vedas and MaRais.
¦ºÚÅ¢ü âò¾ §ºÂ¢¾úò ¾¡Á¨Ã,
«Ú¦¾¡Æ¢ø «ó¾½÷ «ÈõÒâóÐ ±Îò¾
¾£¦Â¡Î Å¢ÇíÌõ ¿¡¼ý, Å¡ puram397
“§ÅÚ§ÅÚ º¢ÈôÀ¢ý §ÅÚ§ÅÚ ¦ºöÅ¢¨É
Ú «È¢ ÁÃÀ¢ý «È¢ó§¾¡÷ ¦ºöÔÁ¢ý “ Manimekhalai 1:55
“¡ôÒ ¯¨¼ ¯ûÇòÐ ±õ «¨É þÆ󧾡ý
À¡÷ôÀÉ ÓÐÁ¸ý ÀÊÁ ¯ñÊÂý ..
ż ¦Á¡Æ¢Â¡Ç¦Ã¡Î Åէšý ¸ñÎ ®íÌ..
"¡í¸Éõ Åó¾¨É ±ý Á¸û?" ±ý§È
¾¡í¸¡ì ¸ñ½£÷ ±ý ¾¨Ä ¯¾¢÷òÐ íÌ
µ¾ø «ó¾½÷ìÌ.. “ Manimekhalai 5
Å¡ÉÅ÷ §À¡üÚõ ÅÆ¢¿¢Éì ¸Ç¢ìÌõ
¿¡ýÁ¨È ÁÕí¸¢ý §ÅûÅ¢ô À¡÷ôÀ¡ý
«ÕÁ¨È ÁÕí¸¢ý «Ãº÷ì §¸¡í¸¢Â
¦ÀÕ¿ø §ÅûÅ¢ ¿£¦ºÂø §ÅñÎõ
¿¡¨Çî ¦ºöÌÅõ «È¦ÁÉ¢ø ý§È
§¸ûÅ¢ ¿øÖ¢÷ ¿£í¸¢Û ¿£íÌõ Silappathikaram 28:175-180
«ÕÁ¨È Âó¾½÷ íÌÇ÷ Å¡ú§Å¡÷
¦ÀÕ¿¢Ä ÁýÉ §À½ø¿¢ý ¸¼¦ÉýÚ Silappathikaram 26
ÒýÁ¢÷î º¨¼ÓÊô ÒÄá ×Î쨸
Óóáø Á¡÷À¢ý Óò¾£î ¦ºøÅòÐ
þÕÀ¢Èô À¡Ç¦Ã¡Î ¦ÀÕÁ¨Ä Âúý Silappathikaram 25
¿£Î¿¢¨Ä ÁÄÂõ À¢üÀ¼î ¦ºýÈ¡íÌ´ýÚÒâ ¦¸¡û¨¸ ÕÀ¢Èô À¡Ç÷Óò¾£î ¦ºøÅòÐ ¿¡ýÁ¨È ÓüÈ¢³õ¦ÀÕ §ÅûÅ¢Ôï ¦ºö¦¾¡Æ¢ø µõÒõ«Ú¦¾¡Æ¢ Äó¾½÷ ¦ÀÚÓ¨È ÅÌì¸
¿¡ÅÄí ¦¸¡ñÎ ¿ñ½¡ §Ã¡ðÊôÀ¡÷ôÀÉ Å¡¨¸ ÝÊ ²üÒÈ¿ý¸Äí ¦¸¡ñÎ ¾ýÀ¾¢ô ¦ÀÂ÷§Å¡ý¦ºí§¸¡ø ¦¾ýÉý ¾¢ÕóЦ¾¡Æ¢ø Á¨ÈÂÅ÷¾í¸¡ ¦ÄýÀ à§Ã «ùç÷ô Silappathikaram 23
µ¾ø §Åð¼ø «¨ÅÀ¢È÷î ¦ºö¾ø®¾ø ²üÈø±ý(Ú) ÚÒ¡¢ó(Ð) ´ØÌõ«ÈõÒ¡¢ «ó¾½÷ ÅÆ¢¦Á¡Æ¢ó(Ð) ´Ø¸¢»¡Äõ ¿¢ýÅÆ¢ ´Ø¸ô À¡¼øº¡Ýú PathiRRupattu-24ஆறு அறி அந்தணர்க்கு அரு மறை பல பகர்ந்து, தேறு நீர் சடைக் கரந்து, திரிபுரம் தீ மடுத்து, Kalithogai 1 and much more ..AruThozilar during Sangam and post Sangam Periods, i.e., during Valluvar days always referred Brahmins. Devaneyapavanar knew well and acknowledged it very clearly as in the verse quoted below, but Devaneya Pavanar a Christian as earlier Missionaries did tried to disintegrate the Hindu and the Godly Religion and Bismala I quote your words,
bis_mala wrote:
The following words and phrases in the first post by IndianXXX may be offensive to Muslims generally
The words of Devaneyan is totally upsurd and meaningless and higly speculative and offensive against Indian Integrity.
Agains Bismala quotes- //According to Prof Vanamaamalai,” //
Prof.Vanamamalai, a Communist Movement Scholar, has very clearly commented on the Thani-Tamil movement and about Tamil Chavunism very Ckearly and I give from his book ¾Á¢ú ÅÃÄ¡Úõ ÀñÀ¡Îõ, and his article in discussion was “¦Á¡Æ¢ôÀüÚõ ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÅÈ¢Ôõ”
À¡Ã¾¢¾¡ºý À¡¼Ä¢ø- À¢È ¦Á¡Æ¢¸¨Ç ¦ÅÚôÀ¨¾Ôõ, À¢È Áì¸¨Ç þÆ¢× ÀÎòÐŨ¾Ôõ ¾Á¢Æ¢ý ¯Â÷Å¢üÌ ¾¡ÃÁ¡ìÌõ §À¡Ð, À¡Ã¾¢¾¡ºÉÐ ±ØòÐì¸û ¾Á¢ú ¦ÅȢ¡¸ò ¾¡úóРŢθ¢ýÈÉ. Àì-58
¾Á¢ú ¯½÷×, ¾Á¢ú ÀñÀ¡ðÎ ÷Åõ ¾Á¢ú¿¡ðÎô ôüÚ þ¨Å §¾º¢Â ¯½÷Å¢üÌ ÓÃñÀð¼É «øÄ. É¡ø ¾Á¢ú ¦ÅÈ¢ ¾Á¢Æ÷ ÁüÈ þÉò¾¡Ã¢Ûõ ±øġŨ¸Â¢Öõ º¢Èó¾Å÷ (Regional Chavunism) ±ýÈ ¸ÕòÐ, §¾º¢Â ´üÚ¨ÁìÌõ ¾Á¢Æ÷ ÀñÀ¡ðÊüÌõ §¿÷Óý¡ÉÐ. Àì-60
Actually this article is written by Prof.Vaanamamalai, in response to an article by Mr.Thaninayagam Adigal in Tamil Culture Article.
“¿£Ã¡Úõ “ «Ð ÀüÈ¢- I Quote- “ ¾Á¢ú À¢È¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¢Öõ º¢Èó¾Ð. À¢È ¦Á¡Æ¢¸¨Ç þ¸úóÐ ¿ÁÐ ¦Á¡Æ¢¨Âô §À¡üڧšõ ±ýÈ ¾É¢¨Á ¯½÷¨ÅÔõ, À¢Ã¢Å¢¨É ¯½÷§Å ¾Á¢Ø½÷ìÌõ ¿¡ðÎô ÀüÚìÌõ «Åº¢Âõ ±ýÀÐ ±ýÀÐ Íó¾ÃõÀ¢û¨Ç¢ý ¸ÕòÐ, §ÁÖõ ±øÄ¡ô À̾¢ Áì¸Ùõ ´ýÚÀÎõ ÓÂüº¢ ÐÅí¸¢Â ¸¡Äò¾¢ø þì¸ÕòÐ ¾Á¢Æ¨Ãò ¾É¢¨Áô ÀÎò¾ ¯¾×õ ¸ÕòÐ. Àì 56
¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼Š¾¡ý, ¾É¢¿¡Â¸ «Ê¸û ÜÚÅÐ §À¡Ä ´Õ ¸ÕòÐ ¾¡.(concept) «Ð ŠàÄÁ¡É ¯ÑmþÂøÄ. «¾ý «ÊôÀ¨¼ í¸¢Ä ðº¢Â¢ý ±¾¢÷ôÀøÄ, ¿¡ðÊý Ţξ¨Äô ÀüÚÁøÄ. ¾Á¢Ø½÷ «ì¸Õ¨¾ ÅÄ¢×ÀÎòÐù¾¡¸¡Ð. ²¦ÉÉ¢ø ¸üÀ¨Éò ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ò¾¢üÌ ±ó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢Ôõ «ÊôÀ¨¼Â¡¸¡Ð. «Ð×õ ¾Á¢ú¦ÅÈ¢, ¦¾Öí¨¸Ôõ ¸ýɼò¨¾Ôõ Á¨Ä¡Çò¨¾Ôõ ±ùÅ¡Ú ¯ÈÅ¡ì¸ ¯¾×õ? þÐ
¾¡ý ¾£÷ì¸ ÓΡ¾ ÓÃñÀ¡Î. À¢Ã¢Å¢¨É þÂì¸ò¾¡Ã¢ý ¾Á¢Ø½÷× ¾Á¢ú ÁÃÀ¢ý ÅÆ¢ Åó¾¾øÄ.
²¦ÉÉ¢ø ¾Á¢úÉÐ ÀñÀ¡Î ±ø§Ä¡Õ¼Ûõ ¯È× ¦¸¡ñÎ ÅÇ÷ó¾Ð. Àì-59.
Another article, again the misinterpretation of History by Tamil Movement Scholars- Prof.Vaanamamalai- I Quote-“ ÅÃÄ¡üÚ ¿¢¸ú¸¨Ç ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ ¯Â÷× ±ýÈ ¸ñ§½¡ð¼ò¾¢ø þÅ÷¸û ¸ñ¼É÷... þáÁÂ½ì ¸¨¾¨Â â ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ô §À¡Ã¡¸î º¢ò¾Ã¢ò¾É÷. .. .. âÂ÷ ¾¢ì¸ò¨¾ ±¾¢÷ì¸ ¾¢Ã¡Å¢¼ ¿¡Î ±ýÚõ §À¡Ã¡ÊÔûÇÐ. þРŢξ¨Ä ¸¡ìÌõ ¯½÷× ±ýÚ, «ó¾ ãø ż¿¡ð¨¼ «¼ì¸¢Â¡ñ¼¡ý ¸Ã¢¸¡Äý ±ýÚõ, ¸É¸ Å¢ºÂ÷ ¾¨Ä¨Á¢ø ¸ø§ÄüÈ¢ì ¦¸¡½÷ó¾¡ý ¦ºíÌðÎÅý ±ýÈ ¾¢ì¸ô ¦ÀÕ¨Á §ÀÍÅ÷. âÂôÀ¨¼ ¸¼ó¾ ¦¿Î了ƢÂý ±ýÈ ¦À¨Ãì ¦¸¡ñÎ, ¦ÀÕõ §À¡÷ ´ýÚ ¿¼óò¾¡¸ ¾¡ÃÁ¢ýÈ¢§Â ¸Â¢Ú ¾¢Ã¢ôÀ÷. Àì 36, article- ¾Á¢Æ¸ ÅÃÄ¡üÚì ¸ñ§½¡ð¼í¸û.
On Maraimalai Adigal- þó¾¢Â Ţξ¨Ä §¾¨Å¢ø¨Ä. .. . ż¦Á¡Æ¢Â¢Ä¢ÕóÐ ¾Á¢¨Æô À¡Ð¸¡ôÀÐ , À¢Ã¡Á½Ã¢¼Á¢ÕóÐ ¾Á¢¨Æô À¡Ð¸¡ôÀÐ, í¸¢Ä ¦Á¡Æ¢ ¾¢ì¸ò¾¡ø ¾Á¢ú «Æ¢Å¨¾ì ¸¡½¡¾ ¸ñ¸û ż¦Á¡Æ¢ â¾ò¨¾ì ¸ñ¼É. ¾õ ±ýÀÐ ÁÉôÀ¢Ã¡ó¾¢ ¾¡§É? þøÄ¡¾ â¾ò¨¾ì ¦¸¡øÄ «Å÷ Å¡¨Çî ÍÆüȢɡ÷. þÐ ¾¡ý Á¨ÈÁ¨Ä «Ê¸ÇÐ ¾Á¢Ø½÷×, þó¾¢Â Ţξ¨Ä §¾¨Å¢ø¨Ä ±ýÚ ±ñ½¢ÂÅ÷¸û þó¾¢Â ´Õ¨Á¨Âô ÀüÈ¢ ±ýÉ ¸Å¨Ä þÕì¸ ÓÊÔõ? ¾Á¢ú ¦ÅÈ¢ìÌõ, þó¾¢Â Ţξ¨Ä ÷Åò¾¢÷Ìõ ´ðÎõ ¯È×õ ²Ð? ±É§Å ÓÃñÀ¡ÊøÄ¡¾ ¾Á¢Ø½÷× ±ýÚ ¾É¢¿¡Â¸ «Ê¸û «¨ÆôÀÐ À¢È ¦Á¡Æ¢¸¨Çô ÀÆ¢ôÀÐ. À¢È¦Á¡Æ¢ §Àͧš¨Ãô ÀÆ¢òÐ, ¾Á¢Æ¢ý ¯Â÷¨Å ¿¢¨Ä¿¡ðÎÅÐ ¾¡ý ±ýÚ §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ.. Àì 56,57.
“¿¡ø§Å¾õ «øÄÐ ¿¡ýÁ¨È, Èí¸õ, ¸Áõ ±ýÀÉ Ã¢Â áø¸§Ç ±ýÀÐõ, ¾¢ÕìÌÈû ¾Å¢Ã þô§À¡ÐûÇ ÁüÈ Àñ¨¼Â áø¸û ±øÄ¡õ «ó¾½÷ ±ýÀÐ À¢Ã¡Á½¨Ã§Â ÌÈ¢ìÌõ ±ýÀÐõ ºÃ¢§Â”.. Àì101, ¾Á¢Æ÷ Á¾õ. §¾Å§¿ÂôÀ¡Å½÷.
“¾Á¢Æ¢ý ¦¾¡ýÓÐô ÀƨÁÔõ «¾üÌ þ¨¼Â¢¨¼ §¿÷ó¾ ÀÄ ¦ÀÕó¾£í̸¨ÇÔõ §¿¡ìÌõ þ¼òÐ, «¸ò¾¢Â÷, ¦¾¡ø¸¡ôÀ¢Â÷, ¿ì¸£Ã÷, ¿îº¢É¡÷츢ɢÂ÷- Àâ¾¢Á¡ü¸¨Ä»÷ §À¡ýÈ Ã¢Âô À¡÷ôÀÉ÷ þøÄ¡Ð þÕôÀ¢ý, ¾Á¢ú Á¢¸ì ¦¸ðÎô §À¡Â¢ÕìÌõ.” ´ôÀ¢Âý ¦Á¡Æ¢ áø Àì 67. À¡Å¡½÷.
See the Fraud that PAvanar does here-Leaving Kural for hisinterpretation, and I quote from Pavanar's Tirukural Urai, where he confirms Thiruvalluvar refers Vedas.
ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ µòàì ¦¸¡Çø Ìõ À¡÷ôÀ¡ý
À¢ÈôÒ ´Øì¸õ ÌýÈì ¦¸Îõ.
þì ÌÈÇ¢üÌ À¡Å½÷- À¡Å¡½÷ µòÐ ÁÈôÀ¢Ûõ ¦¸¡Çø Ìõ. âÂô À¡÷ôÀ¡É¡É À¢Ã¡Á½ý ¾¡ý ¸üÈ §Å¾ò¨¾ ÁÈó¾¡ý ¢Ûõ «¨¾ ¾¢ÕõÀ µ¾¢ì ¦¸¡ûÇ ÓÊÔõ. À¢ÈôÒ ´Øì¸õ ÌýÈì ¦¸Îõ. .. ..
Now Pavanar is absolutely clear that VALLUVAR Referred to Brahmins and Vedas and as per Sangam Lit. iself what is PiRappu ozukkam for Brahmins:
µ¾ø §Åð¼ø «¨ÅÀ¢È÷î ¦ºö¾ø
®¾ø ²üÈø±ý(Ú) ÚÒ¡¢ó(Ð) ´ØÌõ
«ÈõÒ¡¢ «ó¾½÷ ÅÆ¢¦Á¡Æ¢ó(Ð) ´Ø¸¢
»¡Äõ ¿¢ýÅÆ¢ ´Ø¸ô À¡¼øº¡Ýú PathiRRupattu-24
IF a Brahmins continues to Read and Teach Vedas back; then VEDAS can be recollected. So Valluvar is absolutely clear. If for Paavanr aruthozilaar in every other works refers to Brahmins why fradulant translation here? Divakara Nikandu is of much Later period, and to quote it purposely wrongly proves his false attitude.
Whether MAXMULLER or Caldwell to Pavanar- all their Linguistic work were done to undermine Indian Unity and its Greatness.
PAULThomas boasting about Deivanayagam- saying VALLUVAR AS Christian- needs separate Thread, but it would be too much about History of Christianity, and may not be that easy, to put it fully secular without going into the Church play with Tamil etc., and Paavanar’s Tamil Books are One such- fully loaded against Truths. All this are possible 50 years back, fsg, bismala please stop this fradulant offending opinions. Deivanayagam’s book along with PAAVANAR looks completely show both had a common editing help, and DEIVANAYAGAM’S first work was published in 1969, and Paavanaar till his death 1981, has he commented a bit- any friends can tell me. Pavanr work perfectly goes with what Bharathiyar wrote:
and MahaKavi Bharati condemens it in his Short ARTICLE called Á¾¢ôÒ
þó¾¢Â¡¨Å ¦ÅÇ¢Ôĸò¾¡÷ À¡Á羺õ ±ýÚ ¿¢¨ÉìÌõÀÊ ¦ºö¾ Ó¾ü ÌüÈõ ¿õÓ¨¼ÂÐ. ÒÈì¸ÕÅ¢¸ û ÀÄ.
ӾġÅÐ, ¸¢È¢ŠÐÅô À¡¾¢Ã¢. «¦Áâ측ŢÖõ ³§Ã¡ôÀ¡Å¢Öõ º¢Ä
¸¢È¢ŠÐÅô À¡¾¢Ã¢¸ û, ¾í¸û Á¾ Å¢„ÂÁ¡É À¢Ãº¡Ãò¨¾ ¯ò§¾º¢òÐ ¿õ¨Áì ÌÈ¢òÐô ¦Àâ ¦Àâ ¦À¡ö¸û ¦º¡øÄ¢, þôÀÊ𠾡úóÐ §À¡ö Á¸ð¾¡É «¿¡¸Ã¢¸ ¿¢¨Ä¢ø þÕìÌõ ƒÉí¸¨Çì ¸¢È¢ŠÐ Á¼ò¾¢§Ä §º÷òÐ §Áý¨ÁôÀÎòÐõ Òñ½¢Âò¨¼î ¦ºöž¡¸î ¦º¡øÖ¸¢È¸û. ¢
þóÐì¸û ÌÆ󨾸¨Ç ¿¾¢Â¢§Ä §À¡Î¸¢È¡÷¸û ±ýÚõ, Šòâ¸¨Ç (Ó츢ÂÁ¡¸, «¿¡¨¾¸Ç¡öô ÒÕ„÷¸¨Ç þÆóÐ ¸¾¢Â¢øÄ¡Áø þÕìÌõ ¨¸õ¦Àñ¸¨Ç) ¿¡ö¸¨Çô §À¡Ä ¿¼òи¢È÷¸û ±ýÚõ ÀÄÅ¢¾Á¡É «ÀÅ¡¾í¸û ¦º¡øÖ¸¢È¡÷¸û. ¿õÓ¨¼Â ƒ¡¾¢ô À¢Ã¢×¸Ç¢¦Ä þÕìÌõ ÌüÈí¸¨Ç¦ÂøÄ¡õ â¾ì¸ñ½¡Ê ¨ÅòÐì ¸¡ðθ¢È¡÷¸û. þó¾ì ¸¢È¢ŠÐÅô À¡¾¢Ã¢¸Ç¡§Ä ¿ÁìÌ §¿÷ó¾ «ÅÁ¡Éõ «ÇÅ¢ø¨Ä. Barathiyar, ¸ðΨÃ- Á¾¢ôÒ
Paavanaar wrote so much against Hinduism- absolutely UNHISTORICAL and Unethical without any basis, has he commented about Bible or Historical Jesus, against which tons of Proofs are mounting, all proving his highly biased attitude.
Tiruvalluvar wrote Kural to highlight Dharma- or Aram, avoiding God names in Kadavul Vazthu, but has used Hindu God references in morethan 25 odd Kurals and I shall give them now on.
Please Read Kural to know what Valluar said.
He has of course given very clear classification but you are muddled up and even his clarity did not help you at all. The four varnas were implemented in North India. The last varna in North India comprise Sudras. Whereas the four divisions that naturally occurred in Tamil Nadu substantially differed from those in North India. There were no Sudras. The Velalars mentioned in Tolkaappiyam were not Sudras. The four divisions in Tamil Nadu were based on economic activity but they were not hierarchical. Most of the Tamil kings married brides from the veLLala economic division. Of the last 7 philanthropist rulers (vaLLalas) in the Tamil country, all were veLLaLas. In times of war, they supplied the armies that food by which they marched to their battlegrounds. They also fed the people. Therefore they were exempted from all forms of other services including military service or enlistment. The similarity between the first three occupational divisions in Tamil country then and that which existed in North India was a mere coincidence. Even in Japan there existed occupational divisions, for example the samurai. Even in England, there was this division between Lords and Commons. But these are not varnas. Many civil services of the world even today have four divisions of officers, These are not casteist divisions. There are gazetted and non-gazetted ranks. The civil service ranks of today are hierarchical but not the Tamil divisions of olden days. The Kings were protectors and therefore had authority to rule and administer.Quote:
Tholkaapiyar has given very clear classification of Four Varna Classification of Indian Society and gives detail of each Branch its duties and denies most rights to the Fourth Varna. First Varna is named in Tholkaapiyam as Anthanar- Brahmins or AruThozilaar, the last meaning Shadakarma Nishadar.
AnthaNar was not Brahmin. The Brahmins of later ages took over the Tamil title.causing confusion.
I have explained the other terms.before.
Much of what you have written is not relevant to this thread. As they have been covered elsewhere in my as well as fsg’s replies, I shall not repeat.
We are not interested in Vanamaamalai’s attack of Bharathithaasan. Irrelevant to us.
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Devapriya:
I believe we can discuss thirukuRaL without your vedic bs or casteist remarks.
If you cant just LEAVE from here! :twisted:
Devapriya wrote:
//¦ºÚÅ¢ü âò¾ §ºÂ¢¾úò ¾¡Á¨Ã,
«Ú¦¾¡Æ¢ø «ó¾½÷ «ÈõÒâóÐ ±Îò¾
¾£¦Â¡Î Å¢ÇíÌõ ¿¡¼ý, Å¡ puram397
“§ÅÚ§ÅÚ º¢ÈôÀ¢ý §ÅÚ§ÅÚ ¦ºöÅ¢¨É
Ú «È¢ ÁÃÀ¢ý «È¢ó§¾¡÷ ¦ºöÔÁ¢ý “ Manimekhalai 1:55//
I have not checked the book Manimekhalai now, but it is clear to me you have left out the letter "¬" in this quotation. "¬ÈÈ¢ ÁÃÀ¢ý" does not refer to any Brahmin caste. The lines mean "those who know the 6 activities could perform them." §ÅÚ§ÅÚ º¢ÈôÀ¢ý means each of those six activities has its own significance. There is no caste reference here.
//“¡ôÒ ¯¨¼ ¯ûÇòÐ ±õ «¨É þÆ󧾡ý
À¡÷ôÀÉ ÓÐÁ¸ý ÀÊÁ ¯ñÊÂý ..//
"À¡÷ôÀÉ" refers to those who were looking after places of worship, these in olden days could be under the banyan trees. ¬ÄÁÃò¾Ê, from which the word ¬ÄÂõ is derived. ¬ÄÁ÷ ¸¼×û means ¬ÄÁÃò¾Êì ¸¼×û. þó¾ þ¼ò¨¾ò àö¨ÁôÀÎò¾¢ ÅÕ¸¢ÈÅ÷¸ÙìÌî §º¨Å ¦ºöÐ À¢¨ÆìÌõ ±Ç¢ÂÅý "À¡÷ôÀ¡ý" ±ÉôÀð¼¡ý. This job was not performed by any rigidly closed, then not-existent, category marrying among themselves and claiming to be higher than others. The vadama brahmins came to Tamilnadu one thousand or more years later. Do not confuse. Óú¨ÈÔõ§À¡Ð «Åý Óú¨È§Å¡ý ( «¾üÌâ ¦À¨à þô§À¡Ð ¦º¡øÄ Å¢ÕõÀÅ¢ø¨Ä ), §¸¡Â¢¨Äô À¡÷ìÌõ§À¡Ð «Åý À¡÷ôÀÅý. ÀÊÁ «øÄÐ ÀÊÅ ¯ñʦÂýÀРŢþ¡Ú. Ţþõ ±Îò¾Å¦ÉøÄ¡õ þ측Äô À¢Ã¡Á½É¢ý Óý§É¡ý «øÄý. ÅûÙÅì ÌÎõÀò¾¢É÷ «øÄÐ §ÅÚ¡Õõ À¡÷ôÀ¡É¡¸ ¦¾¡Æ¢ø §Áü¦¸¡ûÇÄ¡õ, ºí¸ ¸¡Äò¾¢ø.
Every nation had its own clergy, please note that having a clergy or references to such clergy would not by itself mean that a caste system was in place.
The Brahman or Brahmin of the north acknowledged Brahma as his god and that was why he was called a Brahmin in those days. Just like Christ > Christian, Mohammad > Mohammedan (now not used). In later days, all clergymen were absorbed into this category, causing the confusion in which you are now trapped and unable to extricate yourself.
As to AnthaNar and its meaning, please see my previous posts.
//Paavanaar wrote so much against Hinduism- absolutely UNHISTORICAL and Unethical without any basis, has he commented about Bible or Historical Jesus, against which tons of Proofs are mounting, all proving his highly biased attitude.//
PavaaNar had not written against Hinduism except to expound historical truths. Much of what he wrote was on etymology and philology. Hinduism is not synonymous with Brahminism. Hinduism is not synonymous with Vedic. You seem to be attacking all those who do not subscribe to your line of thinking. PavaaNar proved that Sanskrit is a hybrid language which you hate to hear. So do not try to turn all Hindus against PavaaNar.
PavaaNar said Kumari Kandam was the birthplace of humanity, which goes against biblical teachings. He did not care whether it conflicted with those teachings or not.
PLEASE STOP WRITING ABOUT BRAHMINS. You are instroducing what the hub administration has prohibited.
̽õ ¿¡Ê ÌüÈÓõ ¿¡Ê «ÅüÈ¢ø
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Could you guys read this :?:
But I could not! :(