Dear Pradheep
Karna's Character is the MOST complicated one MBH, I would try and get back to you tomorrow on this one, sorry very busy migrating SQL server databases to another Server, so once this cools down a bit, I will get back to you. :D
thanks
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Dear Pradheep
Karna's Character is the MOST complicated one MBH, I would try and get back to you tomorrow on this one, sorry very busy migrating SQL server databases to another Server, so once this cools down a bit, I will get back to you. :D
thanks
Dear Pradheep & others
in Gita it says
janma karma ca me divyam
evam yo vetti tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti so 'rjuna
Meaning:
One who knows the transcendental nature of Iswar's appearance does not upon leaving this body takes another birth but attains Iswar's eternal abode, o Arjuna
so does this mean Gnana alone takes one into Mukti??, but in another verse which I can recall now it says Bhakthi attained from gnana is the only way, could some one pls enlighten me thanks
There are two ways to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raghu
1. If there are two ways then the whole gita is wrong.
2. If you get the gnana of contradiction then the gita is wrong.
Dear Pradheep
What are your views on the above verse from Gita?
thanks
Dear RaghuQuote:
One who knows the transcendental nature of Iswar's appearance does not upon leaving this body takes another birth but attains Iswar's eternal abode, o Arjuna
Very good verse you brought for discussion.
Life basically for everyone is to alters between two different worlds. We wake up from sleep in the morning and we do all action with the thought of reality and then when we sleep we get into the dream world and there also we do all actions thinking it as reality. So we basically alter between these two worlds. But the reality is different (discuss later). Conclusion: we wake from one world to another and keep alternating in it- this is samsara.
What I am trying to tell you is that, the last thought when you are going to sleep basically dictates the events (mostly) in the dream while asleep. While about falling asleep you will have thought of a robber and then the dream will be of events that leads to soem robberry. When you wake up you might remember some and not all. So it is the last thought at the time of exiting from this world to the dream world that matters.
Same way Krishna says in Gita that the thought at time of death, decides how you are born next. If you have the thought of being unhealthy , then next birth you will be health conscious. If you think you are not rich enough next birth you will struggle for it. If you think you did not have enough spiritual knowledge so be the next birth. So the last thought at time of death (entering into the next world) is the most important factor for the events in the next life.
Krishna says if you have thought of “Me” , which means if you identify yourself with me, you will be me in the next life and that is eternal. if you think of me then you are me (Ishvara) then you become me (ishava). If you have a thought of being a devotee then you will be a devotee of me next birth.
In the first case, when you think of me as one and the same at death time, you will not have any more births and death and no samsara cycle, because I am the one free from birth and death. So if you become me then there is death and life for you either.
But if you think you are a devotee, you are born as a devotee and being born as a devotee you still are in samsara. So Mukthi comes only when you think of me as yourself and not different from me (Tat Tvam Asi).
But how to remember ishvara at time of death? This is the whole purpose of spiritual practice…. you cannot remember ishava at death because you are so attached with the thought you are this body and so you will be born again with this body. You have so many attachments (possessions) that you will think only of that and not of IShvara.
So all the spiritual practice we do is only for the moment of death to get out of the samsara cycle. Death is the cross road of either getting liberated and the back door again to this samsara. To get to that moment is the proper understanding we need practice. Like in school, the end of the school day is exam. If you fail you have to repeat the same class.
Now we friends are not ashamed to fail repeatedly and be in same class because we are amidst our same friends, who are all failed. Suppose everyone graduated and we are the only one who failed and when we sit with new members we will feel ashamed. (This is why most of the people are not interested in Moksha...they keep failing and playing around here).
Okay, so the whole schooling is meant for the last day of graduation (exam). If I am student who is so obedient and spend my school days praising my teacher without studying , will I pass?. Of course my teacher is happy with my behavior but not at my studies. But what matters is only knowledge (studies). Schooling is for creating discipline to gain knowledge. Without discipline no knowledge can be got leave alone spiritual knowledge. In spiritual class, we discipline the mind to receive the knowledge of the Self. Bhakthi is devotion and bhakthi finally culminates in knowledge – Tat Tvam Asi. A devoted student finally understand he and his teacher are one not at the body level but at knowledge level. This is bhakthi.
So Gita is clear, no different path, only one. Knowledge of the self only liberates and nothing else. Rest is all the means to get this knowledge. Bakthi and all the stuff is to discipline the mind to receive the knowledge of Self (Ishvara).
We will continue with this discussion and once we are clear, remind me of Arjuna getting pasu-pathastra-----it symbolizes the weapon to cut the attachments. Death is so connected to this symbolism.
If this vicious cycle keeps repeating itself, when will everyone attain moksha? Without everyone attaining moksha, who will the world come to an end? Kalki avathar? So the result of all the sins commited by humans, the world just comes to an end through Kalki?
Excellent analogy!! :DQuote:
Like in school, the end of the school day is exam. If you fail you have to repeat the same class
when one understand the Self, this question vanishes, then there is no question of when will everyone attain moksha. Who is Kalki, the conquering mind is Kalki, the one with the arms and weapons to fight the Ego.Quote:
If this vicious cycle keeps repeating itself, Without everyone attaining moksha, who will the world come to an end? Kalki avathar? So the result of all the sins commited by humans, the world just comes to an end through Kalki?
When everyone is drowning, first we have to save ourselves first before we save others. If not we will drown ourselves with the other one whom we want to save. When we save ourself (attain Moksha) this question will cease to exist. That is the catch-20 in this situation.Quote:
when will everyone attain moksha?
Dear PradheepQuote:
Originally Posted by pradheep
Yes in Gita it is Clearly Explained, your next body & life is decided upon ur desire at the time ur atma leaves this perishable body, this makes perfect sense.
but sorry to divert the topic slightly, u mentioned about dreams, yes to a certain extent, u would dream about thinks which are in ur subconsiousness but some time u dream about things which you never ever thought about, how would you explain this?, do u think these thoughts could have been bought along with ur atma from ur previous life??
Dear RaghuQuote:
think these thoughts could have been bought along with ur atma from ur previous life??
In dream state there is no sense of the "I" (body), but the mind that is active still clings on the thoughts it has generated and weaves further thoughts - dreams. Like in awaken state how the mind can bring about thoughts totally unrelated, in the dream state also mind can generate that.
When there is only one Atma, where is the question of ur atma and my atma that brings thoughts from previous life?