Islamic Invasions ! Hindus Persecutions !

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Originally Posted by kannannn

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Originally Posted by Surya

Kannan,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Ayodhya

That link says that there were Carvings of Vishnu on some of the pillars.

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1. Wiki doesn't provide any credible references to substantiate the info on pillars.
2. The findings themselves have been mired in controvery and even the courts have stayed the use of any archeological evidence in arguments.
3. There were no pillars found on the site. Only what look like pillar bases. Even on this point archeologists differ.
4. See here for an alternate view on the so called evidence:
http://www.countercurrents.org/comm-habib110703.htm
5. More importantly, there are many other places in Ayodhya, where Ram is believed to have been born. Why go after this particular site.

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The archeological discoveries that VHP makes are endless. The discovery of horse bones in Harappa also tells a similar story.
They employ distortion techniques to write their own history, the history they want instead of the history that was. The numbers of people distorting our history to fulfill their own selfish needs are increasing by the day. I wouldn't mind if they publish such things in their own journals, but changing history books in schools is a bit too much even by their standards.
As a result no one is able to review our history impartially. Most of our accepted theory is very Euro-Centric and the new ones are saffron-centric (which results in threads like this). Give us a break. Can’t we explore history for the sake of it and know what really happened and for Heaven’s sake accept it and move on, instead of being stuck in a muddy pool. Bring on the geneticists and archeologists who have a passion for the subject and not for politics and revenge.

dsath, here is the link:
http://pd.cpim.org/2002/june02/06022...rkar_story.htm
It is from the website of CPI, but what does it matter as long as it is true!

Another one from Frontline (doesn't produce the full letter, but gives many interesting points):
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl21...5001808300.htm

and yet another one on the rejection of the mercy petition. This sure is interesting:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl22...8001903700.htm

Thanks Kannann.

Regarding critics abt Hinduism, i came across this article. Strangely its written by an American educated Pakistani and these are his observations on a single historical figure. But some of his general observations of the Hindu society in general are interesting.
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cg...end=319&page=1
In a sense the saffron brigade wants revival while the rest of the society wants reform.

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Originally Posted by kannannn

dsath, here is the link:
http://pd.cpim.org/2002/june02/06022...rkar_story.htm
It is from the website of CPI, but what does it matter as long as it is true!

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<diggr>
Wow People's democracy in the net. Its ages since i read one. Thanks again for directing me to the link Kannann. :)
</diggr>

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Originally Posted by dsath

Regarding critics abt Hinduism, i came across this article. Strangely its written by an American educated Pakistani and these are his observations on a single historical figure. But some of his general observations of the Hindu society in general are interesting.
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cg...end=319&page=1
In a sense the saffron brigade wants revival while the rest of the society wants reform.

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Interesting article dsath. Just left me wondering. What is it about Maharashtra that so many freedom fighters and reformists have emerged over the years from this state?

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Originally Posted by Surya

Rohit,
Welcome back..Long time. :)

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Thanks Surya. Yes, it is long. :wink:

Who are the Hindus?

Advaita, Qualified Advaita and Dvaita are the three central doctrines of Hinduism that are mutually incompatible with one another as the names themselves clearly indicate. However, there is one element that is common in all three doctrines and that is, they all categorically reject the creation of the universe and life from the outset and use the concept of absolute monism, qualified monism and dualism as their respective bases for their respective doctrines.

Advaita, for the very nature of its adopted base of the absolute monism, cannot accommodate the doctrines of karma and reincarnation. If it ever did, it would instantly collapse and falsify itself, for karma involves action while reincarnation requires one to be born and reborn; both of which absolute monism must be devoid of, if it has to remain valid within its doctrinal boundary. Now when karma, which involves action, and reincarnation, which requires birth and rebirth are both incompatible with the Advaita doctrine, the question of genocide not only becomes devoid of any context but it also becomes absolutely non-existent for anyone who truly holds Advaita as a valid doctrine.

Though, the doctrines of Qualified Advaita and Dvaita are perfectly compatible with the tenets of karma and reincarnation, any genocide of the believers of Qualified Advaita or Dvaita is, by default, attributable to their past karma; and therefore their genocide becomes an absolute non-issue. Tolerance is the only option available to the surviving rest in order to exhaust their karmic account until it becomes completely empty of all the bad karma.

The only possible way to recognise the genocide of the victims is to treat them as human beings, as either created beings, but they must belong to a Non-Hindu religion that prescribes a perfect Creator God; or else, treat them as naturally evolved human beings. In either case, the case of genocide of Hindus becomes absolutely baseless and is not contestable on the religious ground.

On the other hand, secular human beings with limited tolerance to provocation have the rights to defend their identity and self-respect depending on the situation and provocation encountered.

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Originally Posted by Badri

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Originally Posted by Surya

*Sanskrit Mantras Must Not Be Used In Hindu Temples!!!! This Is Tamil Nadu, And People Should Only Use Tamil Mantras, Regardless Of What Importance Sanskrit Has In The Religion!!! ARRRGH!!!!

I wonder where Mr. KK got the Idea that the Islamic Prayer things that flow out of the Loudspeaker are Tamil... Why not tell muslims that Only Tamil Islamic Religious Songs should be used in Tamil Nadu? This is an example of Psuedo Secularism....Which basically means A rule for the Majourity, and another Rule for the minorty (Favoring It).

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Hmm, this is a point worth thinking deeply over!!!!

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Yes Indeedy!! :mrgreen: :P

Dsath & Kannan, :)

I see that it isn't giong anywhere about Hindutva and the Ram Temple Movement. There is no point in trying to justify the acts of hindutva forces, because it's a completly different type of ideology, to what secular people are used to. What we see are just blunt facts, which have repeted in history.

No matter how you try crucify Hindutva, the fact still remains...

U take the number of Hindus murdered by Muslims all over the world, and the number of Muslims murdered by Hindus all over the world, the death of Hindus easily Outnumber the Muslims. Starting with the Mogul Invasions to the murder of Innocent Hindus last month. Thus this thread.

I feel that Hindutva doesn't have to be justified to anyone. It's a feeling that rises in the minds of many hindus, it also depends on the enviorment one is brought up in. Rather than trying to Justify it, I'm going to embrace it and move on. (i will TRY not to justify it. ) :P

Reg Hindutva in Tamil Nadu:

I do not agree that Hindutva will not have a strong foothold in TN. When I was in India this march, I saw a significant increase in the number of youngsters who attend the Everyday RSS Shakas, as ooposed to the number of youngsters who attened when I went there in 2004. And this is in Chennai. Other Areas like Vandhavasi, Nagarkoil, even Kovai (Dsath, I don't know what yuo mean about the ppl of Kovai not forgiving Hindutva, after the Kovai Blasts, the number of RSS supporters in Kovai has increased Significantly in many areas.) have an increase in their number. Other southern states, like Andra and Karnataka also have an increase in the number of people who attend their shakas. Norther Support for Hindutva doesn't need to be explained. 8-) I'm not going to argue on this, u can believe it if you'd like, or discard it, it doesn't really matter.

A couple things about The Thread:

*Even if look @ hindutva forces as Fanatics, (I don't) why is it that Hindu Fanatics are getting a tougher treatement and getting curcified, more than Islamic Fanatics? This thread is about Hindu Persecution, and somehow it's the hindu that get blamed for everything. This is what annoys me to the core.

*I don't see why this thread is a result of Saffronizing history. Are you denying the fact that Religious Persecution against hindus NEVER Happened?


If changing the title of the thread to "Islamic Aggression, which resulted in Hindu Persecution." will make this thread discuss what it was meant to discuss, then so be it..I hope Eelavar changes the title to that. :)

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Originally Posted by Surya

Are you denying the fact that Religious Persecution against hindus NEVER Happened?

If changing the title of the thread to "Islamic Aggression, which resulted in Hindu Persecution." will make this thread discuss what it was meant to discuss, then so be it..I hope Eelavar changes the title to that. :)

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Surya, please define precisely what do you mean by Hindus. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Rohit

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Originally Posted by Surya

Are you denying the fact that Religious Persecution against hindus NEVER Happened?

If changing the title of the thread to "Islamic Aggression, which resulted in Hindu Persecution." will make this thread discuss what it was meant to discuss, then so be it..I hope Eelavar changes the title to that. :)

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Surya, please define precisely what do you mean by Hindus. :thumbsup:

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Rohit, :)

In this case: The same definition the Govt uses when taking it's statistics.

People who call and called themselves as Hindus (U know what I mean by calling themselves as hindus, I know the term hindu is new and all, but u get the idea.) and those who worshipped gods who are defined today as Hindu Gods, like Shiva, Ram, Krishna, Muruga, Sudalai Maadan, Karuppu Sami etc.