Islamic Invasions ! Hindus Persecutions !

Talking about a portion of Indian History is Islam Bashing?! :banghead: How do u guys come up with this stuff?? :roll: And why the hell are you bringing in chaste into all of this? Who was being Castiest? :?

Why don't you go back and take a look @ who brought Hindutva into this in the first place! :roll:

Also take a look @ who was being discussed before Hindutva was brought in! It was Mainly Mogul Kings and the Kashmiri Terrorists! :roll:

NOW:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO DEBATE TO DISCUSS A SECT OF INDIAN HISTORY IN THIS FORUM? WHY IS THIS TOPIC FROWNED UPON IN THIS SECTION? :banghead:

IF WE SAY THAT WE WILL NOT MAKE ANY REFERENCES TO PRESENT DAY MUSLIMS, WILL YOU STILL HAVE A PROB WITH THE TOPIC?

WHY WOULD THIS TOPIC OFFEND MINORITIES IF THEY THOUGHT THAT THE MOGUL KINGS WERE BARBARIC IN TREATING HINDUS??

Please answer these questions before you try to STEER this debate into a different Direction in which you people seem to be excellent in doing. PLEASE!!

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Originally Posted by Surya

I feel that Hindutva doesn't have to be justified to anyone. It's a feeling that rises in the minds of many hindus, it also depends on the enviorment one is brought up in. Rather than trying to Justify it, I'm going to embrace it and move on. (i will TRY not to justify it. ) :P

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Well, heart rules over mind!. All discussions are futile if no one justifies his/her stand. If everyone is cosy in their own beliefs, unwilling to give a thought to others' points and arguments, what is the need of this thread? Remember reading this somewhere - When the master is asked why he doesn't debate with anyone, he replies:"what people look for in debates are points that strengthen their own beliefs rather than points that may cast a doubt on their beliefs and force them to question themselves".

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Originally Posted by Surya

Selva,

What is provocative? Weren't Hindus Being Persecuted for their religion a result of the Islamic/Mogul Invasions in India? :huh:

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Surya :)
There were so many invasions on India.. Be it from the west or from the other side. but this title makes everyone feel as if India was invaded only by Muslims.
Then what can you say about the western people. Atleast, the invading by Muslims didn't had its presence on every province of India whereas the western invasion was quite atrocious.!
So, Considering that, I feel that this thread had been renamed just to
"Bash Muslims alone for everything and to project them alone in this"

P.S: I request the MODS to rename this thread or do the needful !

selva,

In fact no other invasions was bloody and destructor as the islamic invasions in India.. It is surely the biggest destruction caused to Humans without looking his color or religion..

This subject is so important for the world history not only Hindus..

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

selva,

In fact no other invasions was bloody and destructor as the islamic invasions in India.. It is surely the biggest destruction caused to Humans without looking his color or religion..

This subject is so important for the world history not only Hindus..

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So much more important because Francois Gautier thinks so too . :?

dsath,

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So much more important because Francois Gautier thinks so too .

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Have you already read the book ?

Gautier is not the sole who think and say that !
Look what Danielou and Koenraad Elst , two indologists, say !

Look even Sri Aurobindo one of our greatest modern philosopher !

Indians are the worst people when they must blame and condemn a crime !

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Originally Posted by Surya

Hmmm..Not sure.

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Exactly that is what the point is. There is no technical definition of Hindu in the Indian Constitution.

However, there is judicial definition of Hinduism given by the Indian Supreme Court in 1966. The first criterion is 'Acceptance of the Vedas with reverence as the highest authority in religious and philosophic matters.'

Irrespective of whether the Vedas recognise the term 'Hindu' or not, which it doesn't anyway, the law of karma and the doctrine of reincarnation nullifies whatever the claims of "Genocide of Hindus" or "Islamic Invasions! Hindus Persecutions!" are made. According to the defined Hinduism itself, all kinds of sufferings and tortures, whether they are caused through invasions, genocide or persecution, are attributable to the bad karma of the past.

If that is what it eventually comes to, why a true Hindu should shy away from accepting what he truely believes is the truth as preached?

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Originally Posted by Surya

Why does it matter to the discussion, if we're going to use that definition for the discussion?

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Which definition are you talking about Surya? So far, I have neither seen nor read any definition of the Hindu anywhere.

If there is no definition of Hindu, then it is much easier for someone to misuse the terminology and misapply where it is absolutely unfit for purpose. The whole scenario becomes much more prone to unfair bias and distortion by the one who talks so much about X but doesn't know what X exactly means!

Anyway, it does matter and it doesn't, depending on what purpose one wants serve through such discussions. It does matter if one truly wants to know what were the real causes behind all these perceived effects. It doesn't matter if people simply wants to sweep all relevant facts, situations and detrimental factors under the carpet and blame others for the hopeless consequences brought up by nothing else but the heedless and nonsensical acts of the past (read it as bad karma). :) :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

dsath,

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So much more important because Francois Gautier thinks so too .

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Have you already read the book ?

Gautier is not the sole who think and say that !
Look what Danielou and Koenraad Elst , two indologists, say !

Look even Sri Aurobindo one of our greatest modern philosopher !

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Eelavar, i don't care what 'indologists' think or feel abt India. These Indologits are not Indians, even though they have lived in India and know a lot abt India. Do we always require outsiders to dictate what is important/unimportant for us? Their relationship with India esp Gautier's work reminds me of Hitler's views abt India.
Did Sri Arubindo say that Hindus have been persecuted a lot and we have to continually remind ourselves abt it?

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

Indians are the worst people when they must blame and condemn a crime !

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Eelvar compassion and change is what enabled India to carry on her culture. Whenever there were twists and bends we adapted and adopted suitably.
While other old civilizations have died, Indian civilization continues to evolve and flourish. If we start on the road of intolerance and blame game then we are sure to join the other older civilizations. If not today, its bound to happen tomorrow.
Despite many inadequacies (which pizzalot has written a lot abt) i am sure we will continue to reform and survive if we abstain from embracing extremists/fundamentalists.
We have had many reformists who have been successful in the past, what we require is more of them and their sensible voices to be heard amidst all the noise created by fundamentalists.

Rohit,
I was talking about this Definition:

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People who call and called themselves as Hindus (U know what I mean by calling themselves as hindus, I know the term hindu is new and all, but u get the idea.) and those who worshipped gods who are defined today as Hindu Gods, like Shiva, Ram, Krishna, Muruga, Sudalai Maadan, Karuppu Sami etc.

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On what Criteria does the Indian Census Beurau determine one as a Hindu then?

Selva,

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but this title makes everyone feel as if India was invaded only by Muslims.

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I don't see how it makes people think that...:?

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Atleast, the invading by Muslims didn't had its presence on every province of India whereas the western invasion was quite atrocious.!

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True...Maybe we should start another thread to discuss that then! :)

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"Bash Muslims alone for everything and to project them alone in this"

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We're not bashing present day muslims. That wasn't even the intent of the thread. The intent was to discuss the invasions, and the persecution that the people of India went throught for their religion, along with discussing Kashmiri Terrorism, and other acts of terrorism. :) Has nothing to do with present day innocent muslims. I see that they were dragged into this, but that too only because a certain hubber unneccerily steered the discussion into a whole different direction for whatever reason. :)