Global recognition for IR's music.......

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Originally Posted by irir123

AM not denying that - however, there are already enough composers in hollywood who can easily take up the challenge of doing such a score for such a film! they simply do NOT NEED someone like IR to score for them !

thats not the case here in India! if someone were to make a historical with a solid script, IR wud be the automatic choice!

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I think Indian composers have an edge. Rahman is an example. We are very good at "tunes". I dont think westerners can create as many tunes like we do in Indian film music. Now, with classical music, only compositions which had a tune like flow were popular hits. So somebody like IR who can create complex/polyphonic music, but also have the tune-smithing skills has a very good advantage. BTW, it is very difficult for even westerners to do counterpoints. IR is one of those people who can do this very well. Counterpoint though is only one of the various techniques, it paves the way for learning/do other classical music techniques. So I am waiting for a duel with John Williams and IR :-)

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Originally Posted by kiru

Venkiram, I dont think IR will have problems collaborating with others. He did very well with Lazlo Kovacs, the conductor of the Budapest Symphony Orchestra.

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தனிப்பட்ட சொந்த ஆல்பம் சம்பந்தமாக ஒருவரை தேர்ந்தெடுத்து அவருடன் பணியாற்றுவது வேறு.. ஹாலிவுட் படங்களுக்கு இசையமைக்கும் பணி என்பது வேறு என நினைக்கிறேன்.

இணையத்தில் படித்து தெரிந்து கொண்டதுவரை, ஹாலிவிட்டில் ஒரு படத்தின் இசையமைப்பாளர் எனத் தேர்வு செய்வது நம்ம நாட்டில் Govt Tender விடுவதுபோல, ஒரு ஒழுங்கு முறை. படத்தின் கதையும், கதைக்களனும் பரிசலிக்கப்பட்ட இசையமைப்பாளர்களுக்கு தெரிவிக்கப்பட்டு, அவர்களிடமிருந்து படத்தின் சாராம்ச இசை பெறப்படுகிறது. John williams-கூட விதிவிலக்கல்ல.. அந்த முறையில் ஆட்படுத்தப்பட்டே, அதில் இயக்குனர்களுக்கும், மற்ற சம்பந்தப்பட்ட கலைஞர்களுக்கும் திருப்தி அளிக்கப்பட்டால் மட்டுமே தேர்ந்தெடுக்கப்படுகிறார். மேலும், இசையமைப்பாளரின் எல்லா பின்னணி இசைக் குறிப்புக்களும் அப்படியே படத்தில் இடம்பெறப் போவதில்லை. இயக்குனர் மற்றும் இறுதித் தொகுப்பை உருவாக்கும் கலைஞர்கள் தேவையில்லாத பட்சத்தில் சில இசைத் தொகுப்புக்களை நீக்கிவிட்டு, தேவை என உணர்வதை தேர்வு செய்து படக்காட்சியோடு சேர்க்கிறார்கள். கோடம்பாக்கத்தில் ராஜா செய்துவரும் வேலைகளுக்கும், ஹாலிவுட்டில் நடத்தப்படும் வேலைகளுக்கும் சொந்தக் கருத்தை செயல்படுத்துதல் மற்றும் அதிகார பங்கீடு என்ற முறையில் பார்த்தால் கூட நிறைய வித்யாசங்கள் தென்படுகிறது.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

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Originally Posted by kiru

Venkiram, I dont think IR will have problems collaborating with others. He did very well with Lazlo Kovacs, the conductor of the Budapest Symphony Orchestra.

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தனிப்பட்ட சொந்த ஆல்பம் சம்பந்தமாக ஒருவரை தேர்ந்தெடுத்து அவருடன் பணியாற்றுவது வேறு.. ஹாலிவுட் படங்களுக்கு இசையமைக்கும் பணி என்பது வேறு என நினைக்கிறேன்.

இணையத்தில் படித்து தெரிந்து கொண்டதுவரை, ஹாலிவிட்டில் ஒரு படத்தின் இசையமைப்பாளர் எனத் தேர்வு செய்வது நம்ம நாட்டில் Govt Tender விடுவதுபோல, ஒரு ஒழுங்கு முறை. படத்தின் கதையும், கதைக்களனும் பரிசலிக்கப்பட்ட இசையமைப்பாளர்களுக்கு தெரிவிக்கப்பட்டு, அவர்களிடமிருந்து படத்தின் சாராம்ச இசை பெறப்படுகிறது. John williams-கூட விதிவிலக்கல்ல.. அந்த முறையில் ஆட்படுத்தப்பட்டே, அதில் இயக்குனர்களுக்கும், மற்ற சம்பந்தப்பட்ட கலைஞர்களுக்கும் திருப்தி அளிக்கப்பட்டால் மட்டுமே தேர்ந்தெடுக்கப்படுகிறார். மேலும், இசையமைப்பாளரின் எல்லா பின்னணி இசைக் குறிப்புக்களும் அப்படியே படத்தில் இடம்பெறப் போவதில்லை. இயக்குனர் மற்றும் இறுதித் தொகுப்பை உருவாக்கும் கலைஞர்கள் தேவையில்லாத பட்சத்தில் சில இசைத் தொகுப்புக்களை நீக்கிவிட்டு, தேவை என உணர்வதை தேர்வு செய்து படக்காட்சியோடு சேர்க்கிறார்கள். கோடம்பாக்கத்தில் ராஜா செய்துவரும் வேலைகளுக்கும், ஹாலிவுட்டில் நடத்தப்படும் வேலைகளுக்கும் சொந்தக் கருத்தை செயல்படுத்துதல் மற்றும் அதிகார பங்கீடு என்ற முறையில் பார்த்தால் கூட நிறைய வித்யாசங்கள் தென்படுகிறது.

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i think directors can and always have overrided this aspect.
Classic example is the music composer selection of Serpico, blade runner and 'The mission'. Directors wanted a composer to compose and got their choices approved. concerned composer has to simply go and register their names in hollywood union. thats all.
The rules and processes always apply to 'general' talents. Hollywood has never denied special talents its doors. They were more than ready to work with Ray.

venkkiram and others:

1. new composers keep coming up in Hollywood, YES - thats true, however, they come up through proper channels - the industry is highly structured and follows certain protocol - name/fame/reputation of any other composer outside their ambit WILL NOT entice them to hire an 'outsider', unless, if the 'outsider' makes an honest effort to reach them!!

2. ARR did the 'reaching out' very meticulously, in an organized manner, and hence ended up scoring for Danny Boyle

3. In spite of this, ARR will not simply get an oppurtunity to do scores for, say, a "Robinhood", or a James Cameron, Robert Zemeckis film etc, since they all have standard preferred composers and they plan well and way ahead of time - 2-3 years down the line, ARR might get hooked up with a major production house for a major director etc, if he continues in this same meticulous fashion! we are talking about the different approaches (of IR and ARR) towards furthering ones ambitions in this field, thats like daylight and night!

4. What am doing is out of sheer passion - the odds of some Hollywood agent listening to IR's scores (through my efforts), then getting interested in IR's music, then approaching IR, IR saying "yes" to that agent, and then the agent getting hold of a production house to get a project for IR - its like investing $50 in a casino gambling game in vegas, hoping to make 5 million dollars!

5. There is an even more remote possibility that some Hollywood director, or a producer from a big production house, happens to listen to IR's scores (through say this radio show), or, read abt IR on AllAboutJazz.com and get hooked and then decides entirely on his/her discretion that IR shd be hired for that studio's next production - and thats like investing $5 in vegas, hoping to make 50 million dollars!

6. we are talking about remote possibilities and half-chances - hollywood DOES NOT work that way, fyki - the industry is highly structured and things are done in a very professional manner - even if a Hollywood rep wants to contact IR, there is not a single source through which he/she can contact IR! he/she would have to spend at least a month trying to contact IR! our side of the story speaks/smacks of such profound unprofessionalism

Its my sincere wish that IR first gets nation-wide popularity in India and then probably with a bigger NRI network watching more Hindi films than regional ones, IR might become popular and this popularity might attract production houses

Tamil Nadu is not the center of the earth and even now, majority of people from the other side of Andhra Pradesh have not even heard of IR (despite cheeni kum, paa etc etc)

being optimistic is ok, but it helps keep ones feet grounded, being a realist!

irir123,

Very aptly put. What you say is the reality. As you said, the situation is that Hollywood is definitely not looking towards India to give them a composer. It is very true that unless Raja has the ambition and then the necessary PR bandwagon behind him, there is no hope of breaking through in Hollywood. That is a given. So it all depends on Raja's own wish and desires, of which we have no control.

Having said that, what you have been doing is definitely an effort in the right direction. It is bound to bring more people to notice and appreciate Raja's work. It is not necessary to be labelled a great composer only if you compose for Hollywood. All of us know Raja's calibre and what he has delivered and his capability to deliver top class music even now. If we are able to pass on this enjoyment to more people, as Raja fans we would have done our job. Everything else is a bonus. Of course, this is my individual stand and I know you may want more people to recognize Raja and give him some work which can showcase his talents to a world wide audience.

Anyway, I had passed on the podcast link to my college mates group, and lot of them heard it and were quite taken in by the compositions, especially the instrumental ones. All these guys are the children of 80s but haven't heard NBW and HTNI!!! In that way, the podcast can also reach our own people who do not know what Raja has done!!!
(A small digression. The podcast discussion in my college group ended up with one person asking me to write about old movie songs from Indian films and to showcase other composers as well. So I have started a new series on my blog. Interested people can check it out at: http://sureshs65music.blogspot.com. Sorry for this self plug.)

I would like to remind people here raaja had already once scored for an hollywood movie though the movie is produced by another indian ashok amirtharaj. He worked as a co - composer (?) his name appeared in the title card.

The music in the movie bloodstone unfortunately failed to create an impression even among the HCIR fans. That time the talk was that he plan to score a an album the way generally western musicians do but that also never materialized.

Even today its not very difficult for him to get a chance to score one hollywood movie... he has enough connections to make that as a reality. It is not as tough as its been projected here. But the real question is whether our man would be interested... he lost that interest long time back...

He once said thiruvannamalai is the only reason he prefers to be here all the time..otherwise he would settle in a western country and produce music... what can anybody do if he is so much spiritually grounded here...

irir123,

What you said is 100% true "being optimistic is ok, but it helps keep ones feet grounded, being a realist!"

we were grown with IR when IR was growing in the Tamil film so whatever the music we listen, IR is personal touch for us. like this everybody in the world has their personal touch which we cannot deny and cannot expect IR should be the personnel touch for everyone and this does not mean that we (I) won't listen and appreciate others work.


I feel you had done (Radio Show)the show based on this personal touch.

the choices made by you on that show was excellent which can understand by everyone.

To have a feel of complete work done by IR, a person should have greater understanding of our culture and the life, which is impossible for others outside south India.(as you said, even in Andra its difficult)

In my opinion and the person observing IR for the past 30 yrs. I can tell that IR is the person knows only Music and he is giving that whoever is asking from him as a music. He won't care when someone is getting music from others and some one not turned back..

As I told earlier in the forum, IR used to tell."Music is always good. there is no bad and good music..its all whether you like it or not"

ARR approach was very clear and focused on Global rego. aspect. I want to say that ARR has not achieved this in a simple way..he had put the effort which is required for that.

Finally..This is what IR..This is what I like with IR

If a person has to listen IR music in his life time..he will listen..no one cannot deny that and no one cannot enforce the same.

Let us see widely and listen all musics and have a personal touch of IR.

Seriously, if IR is showing 100% interest, there are enough people to get him connected to HW. May not be the big ones like those making avatar etc but there're tons of others and it's really no big deal to get "just a movie".

IR has enough admirers among Indians of various languages & Thamizh Srilankans worldwide (not necessarily only TN folks). And these groups are not totally without Hwood connections.

In any case, like irir123 said, IR has no habit of reaching out and that closes the whole possibility.

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Originally Posted by eagle

I would like to remind people here raaja had already once scored for an hollywood movie though the movie is produced by another indian ashok amirtharaj. He worked as a co - composer (?) his name appeared in the title card.

The music in the movie bloodstone unfortunately failed to create an impression even among the HCIR fans. That time the talk was that he plan to score a an album the way generally western musicians do but that also never materialized.

Even today its not very difficult for him to get a chance to score one hollywood movie... he has enough connections to make that as a reality. It is not as tough as its been projected here. But the real question is whether our man would be interested... he lost that interest long time back...

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Ashok Amritraj and Bloodstone - sigh - Bloodstone does not even qualify to be a "D" grade tamil masala film - who cares if IR scored for that film, or not ??