The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

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21st August 2005, 09:27 PM
S.Balaji

Raghu,

If you talk about adharma being adopted by Arjuna doing the war,, the list is endless :

1. Bhishma .... was defeated ( but not killed ) through the shield of Shikandi...
( I had written a posting on the background of Shikandi )
2. Drona... Was about to use Bramastra and destroy the entire pandava army when ... under Krisha's advise.... Bhima will kill an elephant by name Aswathaama and shamelessly tell Drona that he had killed Aswathama... Drona .... for him ... Aswathama was life and he will reconfirm with Yudhistira who will also shamelessly say that yes... Aswathama is killed... but in a mild tone.... an elephant... Drona will not hear the second sentence of Yudhistra and will give up arms and will lay in yoganishta when Drishtadyuma will cut his head..
3. Karna..... You know the whole story...
Karna's curse was momentary as he will forget all the skills what he had learnt from Parasurama... but Arjuna could never have killed Karna as he is equally matched in skills...
Arjuna had to kill him while Karna was trying to lift his chariot wheels.
4. Duryodhana...... The whole world knew that he cannot be beaten in mace fight..... and as per the war rules.... one should not hit before hip.....
Beema ... under the advise of Krishna will hit his thigh and he will also collapse.
5. I have mentioned already about ... Poorisiravas.
6. Bagadhathan was an old brave warrior... and known for elephant fighting and is a specialist.... Due to his ageing... he will wear a cloth to hold the extra flesh which was coming before his eyes....
At one stage. Bagadhatha will use the Ankush and chant Narayan astra... and will throw at Arjuna... but krishna will appear before him and will absorb that astra... .WHICH OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE KILLED ARJUNA INSTANTLY.
As this was Narayana Astra... Sri VIshnu's astra.... Krishna happily will absorb it and will protect Arjuna.
Arjuna will cut the cloth which was protecting the eyes of Bagadhatha...
This will make Bagadhathan virtually blind as he will not be able to see anyting.
At this time... Arjuna will send an arrow which will kill Bagadhathan....

The above are all what pandavas did....

The one adharma what Gauravas did was.... killing abimanyu as a group .... when he was without arms.....

But for this episode... the war was won by pandavas purely but wicked and adharma methods...
21st August 2005, 09:32 PM
S.Balaji

Dear Raghu..

You have created 2 wonderful threads….. Ramayana and Mahabaratha…

I suggest onething….. Shall we take up topic by topic in both the epics… and analyse…so that it will form a sequence…. It will also be easy for others to follow..

What do you feel ??
21st August 2005, 09:50 PM
S.Balaji

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surya

Raghu Ji, :D

I have a question.

Arjuna wasn't supporting adharmavadhees, he was fighting them, but used some adharma ways while doing it. "beat them with their own tool" kind of thing.

Isn't all that justified since Arjuna was fighting for Dharma even though he did some things that are considered as Adharma along the way?

Regards. 8)

Surya...

I think what Raghu is driving is ....... Arjuna is known for his mastery over warfare..... A great warrior.... He should have won over his rivals by adopting YUDHA DHARMA.... while he followed YUDHA ADHARMAAA... to kill all his rivals....
I am sure... but for that act.. he could never have killed Karna / Bhishma.....
Both were skilled archers and great warrior.s
22nd August 2005, 06:34 AM
Badri

Raghu: In the case of Arjuna, again it is the classic case of ID vs FD. What he did may look adharmic, but that is from an ID point of view. As a soldier, as a warrior, he had to follow a personal code of conduct, which is ID in this case. But as a citizen of the world, in the general interests of all, the Dharma Yuddha was being waged. It was his duty as a Dharmic person to overcome the forces of Adharma. Hence, this is Fundamental Dharma.

Besides, while all of argue or point out Krishna'a apparant "adharmic" suggestions, we must also not forget the opinions of all the people, including Drona, Bhisma, Sanjaya, Gandhari, Dritharasthra etc. that

Yathra Dharmo thatra Krishna
Yathra Krishno thatra Jaya

meaning, where there is Dharma, there is Krishna, where there is Krishna, there is victory.

That even the so-called enemies acknowledged the fact that Krishna would be dharmic gives us no real authority to question or discuss any adharma on the part of Krishna. Again, as Krishna himself declares in the Gita, he is Dharmakrit, the author of Dharma.

Also, one must understand that the influence of Kaliyuga was already being felt during the war. Every Yuga has a Yugadharma. And as the story goes, Dharma stands on all 4 legs during Kritha Yuga, 3 during Treta, 2 in Dwapara and only one leg during Kaliyuga.

So, when all these collective influences, and the entire concept of individual vs fundamental dharma is considered, only then can one truly understand the real significance of Krishna's actions during the war, his advice and suggestions to the Pandavas. In isolation, in the absence of these facts would only lead to erroneous conclusions.
22nd August 2005, 09:36 AM
viggop

The entire war started because of Adharma only.If only Duryodhana had given the rightful share of the kingdom back to Pandavas(atleast 5 villages!). but he refuses to do that.Sudhaama Sir had already explained the death of Duryodhana.It was duryodhana who was adharmic and lied to Bhima on his weak spot while Bhima told the truth.Hence,Krishna pointed it out to Bhima that the weak spot was the thighs.

As We all know, the Lord was the SuthraDhari.He moved his pawns(characters in mahabharatha) in all directions as per his wish.All the world is a stage!
22nd August 2005, 11:38 AM
Raghu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surya

Raghu Ji, :D

I have a question.

Arjuna wasn't supporting adharmavadhees, he was fighting them, but used some adharma ways while doing it. "beat them with their own tool" kind of thing.

Isn't all that justified since Arjuna was fighting for Dharma even though he did some things that are considered as Adharma along the way?

Regards. 8)

Surya :D ,

Yes it is, Lord Krishna clarifies this in Gita
22nd August 2005, 11:42 AM
Raghu

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Balaji

3. Bagadhathan

BalaJi AnNe

This is the first time, I am hearing about Bagdhathan, can you pls tell me a bit more bout him?

thanks :D
22nd August 2005, 11:45 AM
Raghu

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Balaji

The one adharma what Gauravas did was.... killing abimanyu as a group .... when he was without arms.....

But for this episode... the war was won by pandavas purely but wicked and adharma methods...

correct, 100% correct!
22nd August 2005, 11:47 AM
Raghu

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Balaji anNe

Dear Raghu..

You have created 2 wonderful threads….. Ramayana and Mahabaratha…

I suggest onething….. Shall we take up topic by topic in both the epics… and analyse…so that it will form a sequence…. It will also be easy for others to follow..

What do you feel ??

Yes please :) , but i don't know where to start :? , so please have the honours :)
23rd August 2005, 01:42 PM
S.Balaji

Quote:

Originally Posted by viggop

The entire war started because of Adharma only.If only Duryodhana had given the rightful share of the kingdom back to Pandavas(atleast 5 villages!). but he refuses to do that.Sudhaama Sir had already explained the death of Duryodhana.It was duryodhana who was adharmic and lied to Bhima on his weak spot while Bhima told the truth.Hence,Krishna pointed it out to Bhima that the weak spot was the thighs.

As We all know, the Lord was the SuthraDhari.He moved his pawns(characters in mahabharatha) in all directions as per his wish.All the world is a stage!

Dear Viggop,

I think the Duryodhana episode goes like this….

When Draupadhi was treated very badly in Rajyasabha… at One stage… when Draupadhi was pulled in by Dushashan, Duryodhana will ask her to sit on his thighs…. This will prompt Bhima to take a vow that during the war, he will break the thighs of Duryodhana and take revenge. (He will also take a vow that he will kill the entire 100 kauravas).
The same vow will be reminded very tactfully by Krishna when the fight between Bhima and Duryodhana reaches a peak stage. Duryodhana will emerge very stronger and that stage Krishna will realize that this fight should it get extended… Duryodhana will emerger victorious and will decide to apply that ploy of hitting below thigh . Duryodhana was so confident that Bhima will not stoop down to such levels that he will break the war rules of mace fighting but it will come a deadly blow to him.
Leave apart the dharma angle…. It was a shameful act by the entire Pandavas for having adopted negative approach to killing their main rivals.
My point is that Bhima and Arjuna are well known warriors and superior in their craft. They should not have ventured into timid tactics.

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