Islamic Invasions ! Hindus Persecutions !

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

For every one,

For me the real Hindu is the Hindu who pray Christ, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, etc.. Every god is worshipped by a Hindu..

Their Gods are too our Gods..

We reconize the divinity of every avatars..

Now if you don't agree i cannot nothing for you, it is my way of understanding Truth..

God is One but in the diversity...
Hinduism is a Monotheism different of the others..

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I do agree with this, and that is what I am, except for the avatar part. If Buddha was alive today, how would he have felt when people call him as avatar of Krishna and worship him ? Buddha was a atheist himself and everything he said was against the belief in God. But alas, today, he is an avatar of God himself.

Apart from religions , I also learn from sceince. And there is always something in you which makes you realize more than what you read or hear. That is what I wish to cultivate and everyone cultivates.

Anyway you are very close to my views in this post. You seemed surprised in the beginning to hear the Buddhists were a mojority in India, though.

If I misquoted you, it was a mistake. I did not mean to twist your views. Thanks for your clarification.

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Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram

So do I need to use, or do I qualify for, the prefix Anglicized ?

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Your confession seems to be in alignment to that of mine.
But I sympathize with you that you were impressed by the Gita's Karma's parts. Probably you were impressed by the style of its narration which by all means is great, I should confess.

Gita and Vedas are not the same. Gita is more of Buddhist idea and style, except the Karma and re-birth parts which are its core ideas though. Gita is the Vedic wolf clad in Buddhist lamb style of narration.

While Buddhists said men suffered because of their desire, Karma says men suffered because of their sins. The concept of re-birth means, all men who are seen suffering in this world deserve the pain and suffering and we should do nothing about it. Even when your concience and instinct asks you to give a helping hand to those who suffer, Gita will remind you that they were sinners after all and need not be helped. And Krishna, in Gita, goes on to the extent of saying it is He who makes them suffer and you have nothing to do about it. This idea pisses every one in the world including the anglicized Hindu, except the core Hindus.

Gita was basically patronized by kings to justify the superiority of certain people over others, the one idea that the Buddhists were opposed to tooth and nail. Gita is like a wolf clad in lamb's wool. The wolf inside is the Veda and the wool is the Buddhist style of narration.

Contrast this to the Christian way of thinking. It says a man who commits to sin will suffer only in hell. So if you see someone suffering in this world you will not associate his suffering and sin. You will help him instead of blaming him for his sufferings.

So you find St.Theresa and other Christian missionaries working among the leprocy and desease affected poor, while the Hindu religious institutions keep them away blaming them for their status and condition.

According to me and other anglicized Hindus, people who are seen suffering in this world are not ex-sinners. They deserve to be helped. It was the belief in Karma and re-birth prevalent in the society which had caused them the suffering in the first place and not their sins.

If you agree with me then you qualify for a anglisized Hindu. :P

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Originally Posted by Surya

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Originally Posted by Rohit

The persecutions or genocide are never committed on religions themselves, simply because they are intangible and conceptual entities. One can never catch a religion and physically kill it. Religions do not act; it is the followers of religion who act. Therefore, it follows that the law of karma and reincarnation are only applicable to the one who acts and not to the religion.

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So u suggest that we take off "Islamic" from the title and upt in Mogul or Muslim? Would that draw the line between The religion commiting the persection and those who follow it commiting the persecution?

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If your understanding really allows you to believe that religions, the intangible and conceptual entities, can commit genocide or be the persecutors, then, your suggestion for the swap is unnecessary. Else, yes.

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Originally Posted by Surya

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Originally Posted by Rohit

And as far as Hinduism is concerned, it strongly asserts that no karma goes without consequences. Every consequence has its own karmic history behind it. There simply is no first cause for the karmic deeds. A true Hindu can only hope to empty his karmic account of bad karma in his present life, for any action that qualifies for bad karma, carries dire consequences. There simply is no immunity against bad karma. Therefore, whether it is a religious persecution committed on a person or genocide committed on the masses, they all are the consequences and the they all are attributable to personal or collective bad karma. That is what happened in the past, that is what is happening in the present and that is what may happen in the future if one goes by the law of karma and reincarnation.

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What are you getting at Rohit? Are you sayign that these people who had their eyes dug out bu Mogul Kinds, those were were murdered by mogul kings had it coming due to their "bad karma"? :)

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My answer to your question was/is self-contained in the very quote you used:

"And as far as Hinduism is concerned, it strongly asserts that no karma goes without consequences. Every consequence has its own karmic history behind it. There simply is no first cause for the karmic deeds. A true Hindu can only hope to empty his karmic account of bad karma in his present life, for any action that qualifies for bad karma, carries dire consequences. There simply is no immunity against bad karma. Therefore, whether it is a religious persecution committed on a person or genocide committed on the masses, they all are the consequences and the they all are attributable to personal or collective bad karma. That is what happened in the past, that is what is happening in the present and that is what may happen in the future if one goes by the law of karma and reincarnation."

:) :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram

I don't think they say anywhere that Hindus (however one chooses to define them) were the only group to be at the receiving end. This thread deals with instances in history where they happened to be at the receiving end, that is all. And we can lay bare our sources and discuss the historical accuracy of the information posted.

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Dear Prabhu Ram,

If you care to notice, the initiator of the topic has made no such clarifying statement to restrict the discussion to just listing the specific and selective historical events and exclude altogether the analytical aspects that a proper history must include. If that were really the case, a chronological list of the selected events would have perfectly sufficed for people to make their own judgements.

On the other hand, a true history must cover all "what, who, where, when and why" aspects. :)

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

For every one,

For me the real Hindu is the Hindu who pray Christ, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, etc.. Every god is worshipped by a Hindu…

Their Gods are too our Gods.. We reconize the divinity of every avatars..

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According Islam, Allah is not a god but the one and only God, a Creator God, who is above everything and cannot be subjected to, or bounded within, any avataras.

And according to Christianity, Jesus Christ was/is a son of God.

Now, if all Hindus worshipped Allah exactly as postulated in Islam, the title of the topic wouldn't have been what it was and what it is now.

From which, it also follows that the unity of God is now broken for a selective purpose to include only avatars and leave out (human) reincarnations for special purposes.

Such hierarchical orders of God not only make Him contaminated with impurities but also divide Him in parts.

Not being able to know the serious implications of asserting contradictory sweeping statements is ignorance.

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Now, if all Hindus worshipped Allah exactly as postulated in Islam, the title of the topic wouldn't be what it was and what it is now.

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I don't think..
The intolerance didn't come from the Hindus who reconize Allah, but from the Islamic intolerance of Hindu's beliefs like worshipping Idols, which is banned in Islam.
For most of them if you are not a Muslim you are so an unbeliever..

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