Ramayana - Another Great Epic

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. Salient Message of Ramayana to Humanity.!!!
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Originally Posted by Raghu

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Originally Posted by CLUELESS

Further, the characters like Rama, Lakshmana, Sita and others are projected as 'caricatured' by artists in the distant past. They should be depicted as normal human beings with features representing the temperament as told in the original versions.

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Correct, this is what i was trying to explain, this is very evident in the latest(2007) version of Ramayana, here Rama is shown as Supernatural (GOD) in one episode and a Human in another episode, esp there was a scene where Rama Acknowledge 'Maheshwar' through his 'special vision' and shows human emotions , such as despair, anger, sad, frustration when sita is kidnapped, surely if one has special vision to see 'Maheshwar' or ' see the future' surely he must be able to see who kidnapped sita, where she was taken etc etc... no logics in the latest version, it is all makeup, computer graphics and contradicting issues and views

Sudhama sir

What are your views on this ???

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My Dear Raghu,

Because You have specifically addressed me... I duly honour your wish and expectation from me and reply herebelow...

...Otherwise I am NOT INTERESTED to enter into Shiva-Vishnu Controversies... every now and then...

...under irrelevant contexts... of the Topic you have well-started and conducting it alive and enthusiastic so far.

In brief... I request you to confine to the Topic as per the Title Ramayana... without diversions or side-tracking anymore.

There are various Ramayanas written by different Authors... all over India and abroad too... contradicting each other too.!

We will become mad... if we start applying our Thoughts towards such disparities.

So we should confine our Thoughts to the Moola-Text of Ramayana by Valmiki... which alone is AUTHENTIC... as well as SACRED...

...and called as the India ITHIHASA... which word means..."It happened so."

One Irking point I must clarify... on your Shiva-Maheshwar faith...

...conforming to VEDIC PRINCIPLES clearly and commonly laid down.

Well I am happy to know of your intimate faith and staunch belief on the Great Lord Shiva... One of the Vedic Gods.

Because you are radically convinced on the purpose of God-faith and conduct... as a Saivite. Well, You can continue so.

But let us not indulge in the Thoughts... as who is Supreme.? Shiva or Vishnu.?

If You believe Shiva is the Parameshwar more than Vishnu... well, you can continue to have such a state God-faith...

..rather as your PRIVATE BELIEF... on which others have no Moral right to dispute... because it is entirely personal.

Nothing wrong in it.

But please do not try to make others to fall in line with your personal faith.

Because Vedic Doctrines... have laid down Seven sorts of devotion... towards one Common Vedic God...

..and each devotee has to choose and decide by his own preferencial consideration based on ones own practical experience of return in life... in reciprocation to devotion towards the God-form and pursuit as per his/her individual choice.

How and Why.?

I can very well claim, declare and boast to others... that my Mother is Great.! My Mother-land is Great... My profession is Great.!!

..but can I say... my dear Raghu, Your Mother is Not Great... or at least to the degree of my Mother.?

..Because I do not know your Mother... NOR CONCERNED.

And Can I say Malaysia is Not Great nor any other Country than my land India.?

No. because I am NOT CONCERNED with other Nations... nor had an opportunity to be served as much as my Motherland India.

So is the case of any aspect of Personal belief, Faith and attachement... applicable to anybody in the World.

Vedic doctrines are highly Optimistic, Large-hearted and Generous towards the Mosaic form of Global Humanity...

..Thus everyone of the devotees has the right one choice... apt to his Soul-propensities.

So we should be satisfied on our individual conclusion and devote our mind towards the broad spectrum of Vedic spirit...

...in a Common forum like this... without vivi-sectioning or confining to tiny pocket-thoughts.

In brief the Goal of Vedas... stressed in Ramayana... is to UPLIFT the Humanity on the whole...

...and NOT TO DIVIDE... nor create animosity nor killing the purpose of God-faith and devotion...

..So to say... the Mankind is the SUPREME BIRTH on Earth...and so he should not follow the Animal-life...

..but make use of high Wisdom towards higher perspective of Global Humanity... and Unity in Diversity...

..which sort of devotion and Mind-culture alone will lead him/her towards higher grade of Soul-Might...

..which is vital to get the access with God the Supreme Power...

... as also gain His benign grace... for Success, Prosperity and Happiness.. basically and further towards the Bliss.

Such a divine Message has been enacted by a Drama of Lord Rama..

...at each and every move and stage of the Story...

...categorically depicting the Hero Rama... as the Emulative Mankind... of UNIVERSAL-LOVE...

...exemplary to the Posterity of GLOBAL HUMANITY.!!!.
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(1) the points mentioned above are well taken.
let each one think of god as they know him.

(2) i am again coming back to the main point of discussion, :arrow: i.e. the dialogue between rama and vali during vali's dying moments.

Sudhama sir,

I beg to differ, I am not arguing who is better god, that is childishm, I have my views just like everyones views, i just expressed, sorry if i have hurt any one.

but please answer this

Why in Some places Rama is described as Mankind and a GOD in other places in Ramayanam???

I can understand Krishna was regarded as GOD in Mahabhartha, but here in Ramyana raama is regarded as an 'Ordinary Human being' so surely he can not have supernatural powers?

Remember Lord Bhrama's boon to ravana was that no body (God, demons, animal..etc) can not kill him, Ravana due to his ARROGANCE regarded human the weakest, hence Human was not involved in the boon . This was the reason for Lord Vishnu to incarnate as raama as an 'Ordinary Human Being ' to slay Ravana

So Rama was prince a normal noble human being, but he is shown as god in some circumstances and a human in other, hence there is no logic in this,

pls correct my ignorance , if any

i wish to withdraw from this discussions.
thanks.

Clueless

I cant remember the dialogues, if i do, i will surely put it here

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Sudhama sir,

I beg to differ, I am not arguing who is better god, that is childishm, I have my views just like everyones views, i just expressed, sorry if i have hurt any one.

but please answer this

Why in Some places Rama is described as Mankind and a GOD in other places in Ramayanam???

I can understand Krishna was regarded as GOD in Mahabhartha, but here in Ramyana raama is regarded as an 'Ordinary Human being' so surely he can not have supernatural powers?

Remember Lord Bhrama's boon to ravana was that no body (God, demons, animal..etc) can not kill him, Ravana due to his ARROGANCE regarded human the weakest, hence Human was not involved in the boon . This was the reason for Lord Vishnu to incarnate as raama as an 'Ordinary Human Being ' to slay Ravana

So Rama was prince a normal noble human being, but he is shown as god in some circumstances and a human in other, hence there is no logic in this,

pls correct my ignorance , if any

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Very Good point... all have to remember.

Yes... According to Valmiki... Rama declares openly...

...Aathmaanaam maanusham manyae... meaning, "Among the Creations I am a HUMAN-BEING"

And so he exhibits the normal basic Manly feelings... generally.

...including Desires, Disappointment, Weaping, Lamenting, Anger etc.

In no other Awathara... any God has openly WEPT...

...except Rama Awathara... a clear proof of weakness of Mankind.

And Rama demonstrates by action... by subjecting Himself along with His emulative Wife, Seetha...

...what are the main causes of Human-Suffering.?

There are Six causes... the most important, prominent.. are the Two..

..Anger and Avariciousness.

The whole Ramayana episode is built on these TWO HIDDEN ENEMIES ... as detrimental Inner qualities.

If we analyse the characters which caused the miseries to others and themselves...

..be it Dasaratha, Kaikeyi, Mandara, Vali, Soorpanaka, Ravana and so on.

Even the Hero and Heroine are not the exception.

Main content of the whole misery picks up fast... from the AVARICIOUSNESS / GREED of Seetha...

... to secure the unusual Illusory Deer... for Herself... who is NOT QUALIFIED to aspire for anything...

...since leading the Saintly-Life of Celibacy... secluded away from the regions of Human-inhabitancy of Towns and Villages...

... but forced to live in the Forest... amongst the Animals and such other Sub-Humans.

This is the Major Failure.. and Crux of the whole Ramayana...

..followed by Rama's blunder... in losing temper, got angry and killed the Deer...

...which was not His purpose of chasing...

...besides that Deer had done no harm to Rama, to justify fatal attack by an arrow.

If Seetha would not have been GREEDY... and if Rama would not have UNNECESSARILY become angry...

...there would not have been any suffering for the couple.

Similarly, there are many.

Valmiki clearly depicts Rama as a Man... but a GREAT MAN of Noble Qualities...

...iinnate with IDEAL HUMAN CHARACTER... rather an Exemplary Man.. emulative to Mankind to confront all sorts of Ups and Downs...

..coupled with the Onslaughts of Fate ... so called God's plan.

Thus has imparted a Lesson to Mankind as well as a Silent Message...

"Oh Man.. look at our experiences... POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE...!!!

...when we performed in the right Dharmic path... we were glorified and all of us could be happy.

..Contrarily... when anyone or more of us have burnt our fingers... that eventual fire...

...affect all the persons as INNOCENT VICTIMS.

So my dear Human-brethren... learn Life from our Lesson.. do not unduly suffer like us....

...Never lose control of yourselves by being subjected to be OVERPOWERED by your Inner Enemies... Six bad propensities

...especially GREED AND ANGER.!!
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excellent interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Clueless

I cant remember the dialogues, if i do, i will surely put it here

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dear raghu,
i did not mean the dialogues.
i meant the points raised by vali, and which were answered by rama.

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All CLUELESSes can have Human-CLUES here.Welcome.!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CLUELESS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Clueless

I cant remember the dialogues, if i do, i will surely put it here

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dear raghu,
i did not mean the dialogues.
i meant the points raised by vali, and which were answered by rama.

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Dear CLUELESS... I whole-heartedly appreciate your curiosity on one particular point of COMMON-CONCERN...

...applicable to any Human.

And so I am sincerely interested to answer your Questions and Clarify on your doubts.

...May be... perhaps you are now.. CLUELESS.!.?... on this one of the MOST IMPORTANT part of Ramayana...

...provided as a highly VALID LESSON for Humanity on the whole ETERNALLY...

...irrespective of Religion, Nationality or some such Man-made divisions of One Supreme-Birth on Earth.

But you have already been answered... under this Thread earlier... elaborately by arguments and counter-statements by many of us...

...including my friend, the Tamil-Scholar Mr Hari-Krishnan, the learned Author on this subject... both of Valmiki and Kamban

I too had participated in it... quite actively.

Such a lively debate... raises and answers all the probable and possible questions from anybody by the variety of Wisdom.

I wish you and such others... who are sincere and eager to appease their Common-Curiosity... must read and understand that sensible discussion.

Mr Badri the Moderator, Mr Raghu, myself and others.. are repeatedly suggesting you to refer such relevant pages already covering your question...

...but I am unable to understand.. why you are ignoring our suggestion in YOUR INTERESTS...

...of appeasing your Thirst for Knowledge.

So I reiterate... please search the past relevent pages...

...[as we search a Dictionary to get a meaning of a word]...

I am sure you will be glad to go through... since you can find it INTERESTING for any wise man.

And then quote any part of such postings... raising your further questions and doubts as you may feel relevent and necessary.

We all are prepared to reply and extend our discussions further...

... on that interesting and important Moral-Lesson for Mankind.

Yes my dear CLUELESS... somehow you will get the CLUES...

...I am with You.!
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dear sudhaama,
thanks for the tips and the support.
let me scan the 'dictionary' and revert.
regards
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i went thru each of the 33 pages.
mr harikrishna refers to his link in <chennaionline>.
but unfortunately their "services are not available"'
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what to do ?????