Kamalhassan's Ideology in his films

A related note from elsewhere:

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Originally Posted by equanimus

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Originally Posted by HonestRaj

6) Kamal... Anbe Sivam-nu sonnaru (means LOVE is GOD).... Kadavul illaina.. anbu-ngara oru unarvai eduthu edhukku illadha onrukku equate pannanum?

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ada, ada... ennamA checku vekkuRInga! AnAl idhu avar kittaiyO thirumUlar kittaiyO kEtka vENdiya kELvi. Anyway, on Kamal (mind you, I'm just rambling), contrary to what most people say, I think he is a remarkably spiritual filmmaker. His films are pregnant with overt concerns about faith, God, spiritual reforms and so on. It makes more sense to call someone like Mani Ratnam a truly “atheist” filmmaker. The latter's films are free of concerns about God and faith in an organic sense, never mind the cuteness.

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Equa, the word you're looking for is indifferent/agnostic (at worst) in terms of Mani, so to speak. Not 'Atheist'. This is because of the overt academic interest that has hit evangelical proportions, and in turn let's the other side to deem it as another 'ideology' so to speak..

So it makes perfect sense to call Bergman or Kieslowski or Tarkovsky spiritual (need pointers on why you phrase Kamal one, when he very deliberately goes against fetishism of 'spiritual'), while Kamal, Woody Allen, etc are staunch atheists.

It is no coincidence that Kamal fans are the ones who invoke god the most often when discussing him or his films. Of course, there's a tongue-in-cheek angle to it, but the influence of Kamal's dialogue (with them) regarding the nature of god is not to be underestimated.

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Equa, the word you're looking for is indifferent/agnostic (at worst) in terms of Mani, so to speak. Not 'Atheist'. .

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Yes. Many have mistaken one for another. :evil:

Let's look at the most personal films these two have made:

Baba: Religious advertisement (hey, I'm one in 27 fellers who like this film).
Anbe Sivam: Spiritual journey.

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Originally Posted by Cinefan

Idhu engalukku credit-a ille KH-ukka :roll:

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ippadi pesuvatharkaana thairiyame avar kitta irunthu thaan vanthathu nnu ore podaa potrunga :lol:

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Originally Posted by equanimus

Seriously though, I think Kamal's case, like most people's, is much more complicated than a simple label that says Hindu or anti-Hindu.

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the same complication applies even for a muslim.

2 scenes -

dasa - the scene where balram naidu questions nagesh about his sons/daughters,
naidu; antha chinna piLLai, athi unkalthaa?!?
nagesh: aamaam, athula enna ungalukku doubtu

UPO - the scene where the muslim terrorist speaks about his wives and specifically his last wife of age 16,

i think in both cases he is trying to hit the population raise which ( may be ) caused by the more no of wives, and importantly a kid or two for each wife

on an interesting note, a recent report says Hindus slightly outnumber muslims when it comes to no of wives but most of the hindus are not towards having 3 kids. 2 itself is a big number

at the same time, in dasa, he ALSO portray the "all muslim could be terrorist" blame which is forced on muslim community

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Originally Posted by P_R

மத்தளம்னா ரெண்டு பக்கத்துலேர்ந்தும் இடி விழுகத்தான் செய்யின்.

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Originally Posted by Era_Murukan

உ.போ.ஒ வெளியான பிறகு ஜிமெயில், என் சொந்த இணையத் தள் அஞ்சல் ரெண்டையும் திறந்தால் கொட்டுகிற் கடிதங்களில் பாராட்டு தவிர கண்ணை ஈர்ப்பது - 'டே பா.பன்னாடை' ரக அன்பான அழைப்புகள். கருவறுக்கப் போவதாக மிரட்டல்கள். சகல பக்கங்களில் இருந்தும் மத வேறுபாடு இல்லாமல் வசவு மழை பொழிகிறவர்கள் கமல்ஹாசனையும் விட்டு வைக்கவில்லை.

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Originally Posted by equanimus

On the contrary, I seriously doubt that Cho is a match for Kamal in this regard. I've made this point before too, I think Kamal's films (which is precisely the prism through which we're reading him) are spiritual in the true sense of the word. At the end of the day, what matters is one's engagement with the idea of a god, not the conclusion one reaches.

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Cho is one personality who quickly came to my mind, since he has gotten quite famous in this regard recently, and moreover I find him reasonably satisfactory in debunking many lies about the structure of Hinduism (or perhaps Brahminism) which both theists and atheists have believe(d) in.

The present Dalai Lama was my second option, but honestly speaking, I look upon him as more than just another human being (probably he considers himself so, and would be indeed willing to clarify such 'doubts'), so I didn't bother to mention him here.

If I remember right, Kamal did mention on some stage that the religious conversations in his movies to be a reflection for the religious dialogue within himself. I guess his convictions are also reflected in his personal interviews or stage talks. Hence I base my ideas on his convictions on those.

As for Kamal's movies being 'spiritual', well, I disagree. They are humanitarian, sure. To me, God is beyond-thoughts-and-concepts. This is infact the view held in Hinduism and Buddhism (if one has looked reasonably deeply in either of them). This is also the view held by many Christian mystics, Sufis, even in old-time religion.

Now, was Kamal's 'anbu' in Anbe Sivam such an idea? No, it was only compassion. It is surely essential. It might lead to an experience of God (as that conceptless-entity). However, Kamal (or his characters) never claimed it does. IMHO It is fair to say that what he meant by his "Anbe Sivam" is that, it is enough if you have "anbu" and not bother about "sivam", which is not a spiritual viewpoint but only a humanitarian one. OTOH, Thirumoolar's "Anbe Sivam" is far more deep, it talks of unconditional Love, a la the Bhakthi of Andal or the Gopis, and actually equates it to that Conceptless entity called God. Human-affection and compassion is but a byproduct of this.

Love and Light.

Though already posted by Joe, this link gives relevant idea about his 'confusion' about god. This essay is surely an eye opener, inspite of its own bugs

http://www.virutcham.com/2010/02/%E0...E%95%E0%AE%B3/

There was a function at some Kovai College after VasoolRaja release(2005). Kamal was felicitated with some Man of Century title and students had chance to ask questions to him.

One question:- Kadavul irukkiraara
His Answer: Innum kandubidikkavillai, its in progress

At the same time, his recent quote"If all orphans are children of God, then God needs to undergo Family Planning " has no mistake or nakkal. Its his aathangam

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Originally Posted by anbu_kathir

Cho is one personality who quickly came to my mind, since he has gotten quite famous in this regard recently, and moreover I find him reasonably satisfactory in debunking many lies about the structure of Hinduism (or perhaps Brahminism) which both theists and atheists have believe(d) in.

The present Dalai Lama was my second option, but honestly speaking, I look upon him as more than just another human being (probably he considers himself so, and would be indeed willing to clarify such 'doubts'), so I didn't bother to mention him here.

If I remember right, Kamal did mention on some stage that the religious conversations in his movies to be a reflection for the religious dialogue within himself. I guess his convictions are also reflected in his personal interviews or stage talks. Hence I base my ideas on his convictions on those.

As for Kamal's movies being 'spiritual', well, I disagree. They are humanitarian, sure. To me, God is beyond-thoughts-and-concepts. This is infact the view held in Hinduism and Buddhism (if one has looked reasonably deeply in either of them). This is also the view held by many Christian mystics, Sufis, even in old-time religion.

Now, was Kamal's 'anbu' in Anbe Sivam such an idea? No, it was only compassion. It is surely essential. It might lead to an experience of God (as that conceptless-entity). However, Kamal (or his characters) never claimed it does. IMHO It is fair to say that what he meant by his "Anbe Sivam" is that, it is enough if you have "anbu" and not bother about "sivam", which is not a spiritual viewpoint but only a humanitarian one. OTOH, Thirumoolar's "Anbe Sivam" is far more deep, it talks of unconditional Love, a la the Bhakthi of Andal or the Gopis, and actually equates it to that Conceptless entity called God. Human-affection and compassion is but a byproduct of this.

Love and Light.

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anbu_kadhir :bow: :bow: