A shame

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Originally Posted by nilavupriyan

the roots of this problem are three main reasons

1)television.....,which is telecasting some non-sense....especially certain english channels...

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Its not only English/foreign TV channels tat r casting obscene stuff but also sum of our "Indian" channels! Nowadays, sum local regional channels r telecasting programs w/ scenes from local (Indian-made) blue films & also their own vulgar xxx-based serials late at night on weekends! :evil:
Y r the authorities not doing nething abt such channels, instead blaming english/western channels alone?!!

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Originally Posted by nilavupriyan

2)internet....the major cause for these type of behaviours by adolescent age groups....they must bring on a rule that noone under 18 must be allowed to cafe.......and the parents must be keen on their children's work on internet(if the connection is at home)

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Actually even sum older ppl. browse porn stuff or hav xxx-chats in the cafes or even at home!

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Originally Posted by nilavupriyan

further...,the girls must also change......so closer relationship with boys in the name of friendship sometimes gonna finish in @#$%.......there must be a considerable distance between two sexes...so that each will feel that touching each other is not ordinary....its a wierd thing..

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I can point out tat one of the root causes of this problem is, as PP ma'm says, the attitude of today's parents, esp. the mothers!
Today even in middle-class families, mothers encourage their daughters to take up competetive studies/careers & r even ready to send them abroad w/out a 2nd thot, but hardly bothering to educate them abt the dangerous temptations/transgressions tat lurk in wait for them during adolescence! They r bent upon orienting them solely towards careers/status in society but not upon developing character or even knowing the basic distinction between good & bad! :evil:
Then at one point, after the daughter has gone beyond their control or puts them to disrepute they weep & moan!

It is just one of the strictures about dress code for girl students recently introduced in Anna University in Tamil Nadu- only sari & chudidhar allowed, no more tight jeans or provocative tops! This ruling by the administration has raised a lot of hue & cry as naturally expected & made good use of by the printed media! The other rulings are prohibition of cellphones inside the campus & no dance numbers from movies in cultural programmes.

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Originally Posted by Sandeep

In short ban is not on Vulgarity, but its on Modernity. You wear half saree or saree whichever way you want, the dress code wouldnt touch you. But wear a T-Shirt however well, its a SIN.

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Actually I must admit u (& NS) do hav a point in this one matter (altho I beg to differ on wat u call as "Modernity"; its not wearing T-shitrs/shirts or jeans/pants tat makes one modern but one's education & code of conduct).......altho I admire & am fascinated by Sarees, I feel it is rather biased & unilateral to insist tat wearing Sarees automatically guarantees modesty/decency while ALL western dresses don't........the Saree today has lost much of its dignity to 'bold' fashions & cinemas.....for eg. it has now become a common fashion to wear Sarees low on the waist & w/ deeply-low cut blouses tat expose nearly the whole back! :shock: , not only for the well-to-do/fashionable but also the "ordinary", middle-class women......heck, even our lowly maid-servant (who usually wears Half-sarees) wears such blouses for tat matter!
In such a scenario, a shirt w/ a collar tat covers the whole upper body from the neck onwards- if liked to be worn by a woman- wud be more acceptable....?
However, all the same, we mustn't be prepared to make -ve generalisations abt Sarees either! There r 'n' women out there who choose to wear it decently/in an "unprovocative" way! :D

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Originally Posted by PP ma'm

It is not every girl's munthani that falls!

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Exactly! :D In fact if u talk abt falling pallus, all working women who wear Sarees have, for the last couple of decades, had enuff caution to pin-up their pallus to their blouses at the shoulder......even housewives while going out r doing the same nowadays! And its also not every woman who exposes vast areas of her midriff/belly while clad in a Saree!

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

It is just one of the strictures about dress code for girl students recently introduced in Anna University in Tamil Nadu- only sari & chudidhar allowed, no more tight jeans or provocative tops!

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Um......Chudidaar makes sense but how many college girls like to wear Sarees (regularly) nowadays??!! :shock:
I was of the impression tat its near-extinct even in case of PG & Ph.d girl students! Atleast in the bigger cities.....? :lol2:

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

But of the Indian teachers, who chose the saree????? While most were well covered up, we had a number who delighted us to peek into their cholis and navels!!

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Yes this was unftly the case even in my old school.....while many of our teachers dressed in a very dignified way in Sarees tat made them look really professional & authoritative, there were also sum who were really bad at wearing them- due to ignorance or in sum cases, deliberately, as a personal misguided notion of looking "beautiful"!
I expect the situation wud've worsened lately w/ the onslaught of the currently fashionable low-cut blouses (which I feel r worse than sleeveless ones!).....imagine the situation where the teacher, while writing on the board, displays her near-total bare back to a class of adolescent students everyday! Which may be y there has been a dress-code in our ex-school for all teahcers to wear coats on (like doctors) during school hours.

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

In conclusion???? - Conservative dressing can be found in both Western as well as Eastern styles. I believe the University admin. has to sit down and spell out their guidelines clearly, without turning it into a East Vs West, bash! Or in this case, insisting only the saree and churidars as the only choice!!

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Also true.......the insisting of Sarees only as the dress code esp. wud also lead to problems nowadays, wat w/ the current fashion "trends" polluting it, as I ment'd above! :(
So IMO, if there r women who r comfortable wearing only Sarees for eg. it shud be a norm for them.....but to be fair, edu. institutions shud also insist tat they shud avoid wearing Sarees w/ those deep/low-cut blouses or diaphanous/low-hip sarees.....and leave the choice of other dresses to those who prefer them, w/ equal 'rules'......thus maintaining a uniform standard of decency despite different outfits, rather than insisting on only one form of attire....

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Sari gets its dignity from its wearer's sense of propriety. Bollywood girls wear it, People like Indira Gandhi, Sonia Gandhi also wear it. The same sari definitely gets different tones in both instances.

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Exactly PP ma'm! :wink: :D
U've typed out wat I myself feel abt this many times! While imposing a certian outfit may not be fair, we shudn't make -ve generalisations abt an outfit based on how its worn by a certain no. of individuals! I find many (inc. women!) who nowadays say tat Sari is a 'sexy' attire etc.! This is an undoubtedly biased view & ppl. w/ such views r obv. noticing only those women in movies as well as real-life who wear it improperly (as I said, due to ignorance or deliberately) but not those who wear it in a proper, dignified way & obviously respecting it/realising its value- not just Indira Gandhi, Mother Theresa- but many ordinary women as well!
Its mainly cinemas (esp. South) of the last decades & current fashion crazes tat hav maligned the image of the Sari as 'sexy'! :evil:

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

When an educational institution which has the main duty of shaping a student's personality into a dignified, educated, accountable citizen could not have Bollywood style in mind; only the decent sort known to our mothers & grandmothers.

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No doubt the institution wud hav such intentions....but unftly in this case the students may not nec. think the same! For eg. imposing of Sarees as a dress-code might even result in girl-students (or even staff) deliberately wearing them low-hip or w/ 'bare-back' blouses! Imagine particularly, the respect tat students wud hav for dress codes & regulations in their cases, if a lady professor teaching them comes to class everyday in a low-cut blouse or low-hip Saree (but is not caught by the management as she'd be basically wearing a Saree, an outfit tat is approved by the dress-code!) :shock:
Hence, while it wudn't be nec. to debate on traditional vs. Western dresses as appropriate dress-code, the authorities shud make sure tat watever type of outfit is chosen is governed by fair regulations of decency/modesty.
PS>> I've spent much too long time in this net cafe' today & not sure how soon I can revert again....but I'll be back! :D

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Originally Posted by lordstanher

Imagine particularly, the respect tat students wud hav for dress codes & regulations in their cases, if a lady professor teaching them comes to class everyday in a low-cut blouse or low-hip Saree (but is not caught by the management as she'd be basically wearing a Saree, an outfit tat is approved by the dress-code!) :shock:

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The students are there to study anyway. Does it matter what they study? Or imagine that (male) students come to classes dressed in saree of any style! How about that? Is it beyond your imagination?

From my personal point of view only the rarity makes the difference and the beauty. If there is a black sheep among the white ones, I don't think that it is the mistake of the black one. It is only the wrong doing of those who stare at the abnormality!

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Originally Posted by lordstanher

PS>> I've spent much too long time in this net cafe' today & not sure how soon I can revert again....but I'll be back! :D

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Don't worry!
As you state PP Madame "types out" for you :lol:

WHAT I HAD QUOTED YESTERDAY ABOUT THE INDIAN ENGLISH MAGAZINES HOLDS GOOD FOR TAMIL MAGAZINES ALSO:

Here is what Kushpoo said in an interview to a Tamil weekly:

“Our society must free ourselves from expectations that all brides should be virgins…The educated will certainly understand my views. I am not bothered about the ones who misunderstood them…What is the culture that these people are talking about? Is there anybody in Tamil Nadu who is not aware of sex? How many men and women can you find who have not had premarital sex?”

And, I hear, they built a temple for her in Tamilnadu ! :lol:

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Originally Posted by rajraj

And, I hear, they built a temple for her in Tamilnadu ! :lol:

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Where they also once built a temple for Kannagi!!

Madam PP,

I would like to hear your wise views on Kushboo's comments :) . I personally would not endorse her opinion, :oops: please let us know your views Mam.

Thanks,

I think what Kushboo had meant to say has been taken out of context. She was merely referring to the waywards who had made an irrevocable mistake in life.

Her outburst was directed to the general public to stop being judgemental and let the err'd ones to lead their lives without any attached social stigma.

It is not a call to shed off one's binding morality.

Considering how much life is like in the fish-bowl of public life, which is what the cine world is like, I believe Kushboo was merely defending herself here!

No matter how checkered her life might have been, I do think she indeed is entitled to make her mistakes and learn from it. She may not be advocating such a life for others, just begging society to be a little more sensitive towards those who've made different choices!! 8)

And it's not her fault, if some idiots got carried away and built that temple in her name!! :x

PP Mam,

I would also like to know your view on Kushboo's statement.
Personally I feel sex premarital or otherwise should be between 2 people within 4 walls.No one else has the right to comment on whether it is right or wrong.It totally depends on the people involved and the feelings between them.Just my opinion :).

-deleted-

I dont think Kushboo meant anything wrong! Like "aunty" said she is defending herself, I suppose. I feel bad for her as she got into the "mess"! :cry: It is also possible that Kushboo is unaware of the fact that in India or TN even today not only a high percentage of women but also MEN are getting exposed to "shanthi" only after their marriage. It must have been her ignorance if she really meant "what is claimed as she said" by the media. Of course ignorance is not an excuse sometimes! There is a price she needs to pay for it. However I think PMK and Viduthalai siRuththaigaL are just politicising it in order to pay off Kushboo for her defense against the "outrageous statement" made by "another fellow cine artiste", namely Thankar "cockroach" (what kind of thamizh name is his last name anyway??? :roll:) Kushboo should have been careful when "airing" some sensitive issues to the world especialy just after using "pesticides" to take care of "the cockroach"! 8)

Kushboo's Clarification

News from home is heartening :) The people of Tamil Nadu did not take it lying down :D

Reply to ssanjanika:
The act of sex takes place within four walls, yes, at least continues to in our country-in most parts. We still feel not inclined to the follow the beasts to do it in the open. But this act taking place inside four walls has definite, serious bearing on the world outside, reflects a lot of cultivated, inherited habits of thought & behaviour, has indirect power to shape, design the fabric of social life of a people.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

News from home is heartening :) The people of Tamil Nadu did not take it lying down :D

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A thousand people in the world make a thousand comments! That one of them spoke with her foot in her mouth is made such a big issue and a hue and cry is made about it!

Pity at times like this, people don't recollect Jesus Christ's famous one about casting the first stone! I have nothing to say in support or against Kushboo's statement. It is her opinion, and she is entitled to it. She was foolish perhaps, in making it in a forum that has given it this much publicity, but to say she was even wrong to say it, encroaches upon freedom of thought and expression. But what I do find pitiable is that there is a whole segment of people in TN that are so aimless and jobless that they are literally waiting to chew anything that comes their way!

Mennuvatharku aval kidaikkumo ena kaathurikkum gumbal!!

What a total lack of social consciousness? Will nobody think about the slur cast on aspiring, educated, promising young men & women of a part of the world proudly going about its life righteously & purposefully?
What right has anyone to shatter the prospective peace & calm of the marital lives of lakhs of young people? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

I got to agree with PP on this Badri. Freedom of Speech doesn't end there. It comes with Responsibility.

It doesn't and cannot mean that one can say anything one likes, especially of other people. If Kushboo was talking about herself, what you have said will hold true. She cannot make generalised statements such as this and hide under the shadow of freedom-of-speech.

If you apply the "cast the first stone" theory on all issues, then we might as well tear down all pillars of civilisation, such as the judiciary and executioners like the police.

Thanx a lot, Nov :)

What NOV says about the first stone is right! And neither did I mean it in that sense as to tear down establishment becos the establishment is not perfect.

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous. As I said, she was foolish to have said it in a forum that made it so public, but what I ridiculed was the entire set of people jumping on to make a big mountain of it! That, to me was sadly plain sensationalism and hypocrisy and all pretenses to be culture or moral police will not sell!

As I said, I neither support her view nor condemn it. It is her view, she has every right to say it! If she wants to be insensible and state it where it can draw ire, that is also upto her. It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

What a total lack of social consciousness? Will nobody think about the slur cast on aspiring, educated, promising young men & women of a part of the world proudly going about its life righteously & purposefully?
What right has anyone to shatter the prospective peace & calm of the marital lives of lakhs of young people? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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What slur has been cast? All she said was people should be more open to these things. Does she say every married women today is a slut? I do not think so. Much as I am not in favor of her opinions, I would still insist that making such a fuss about this matter is unrealistic and unwarranted. If anything, it gave people who have under duress/temptation given into the act prior to marriage some hope too!

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous.

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Now you are treading on dangerous grounds.
Do you have any statistics to support this statement? Or is based on your circle of friends/acquaintances? I hope you see where I am driving at

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

That, to me was sadly plain sensationalism and hypocrisy and all pretenses to be culture or moral police will not sell!

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Sensationalism is correct. But sensationalism by itself is not wrong; how to whip up support if not for it? :)
I think this one makes more sense that stirring up issues such as English names for movies or SJ Surya case.

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

As I said, I neither support her view nor condemn it. It is her view, she has every right to say it!

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:banghead:
Read my earlier post again.

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.

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Hasn't the issue settled down after her apology? :huh:

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Originally Posted by NOV

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous.

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Now you are treading on dangerous grounds.
Do you have any statistics to support this statement? Or is based on your circle of friends/acquaintances? I hope you see where I am driving at

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Is'nt a survey the very reason why Kushboo is in the limelight now?

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Originally Posted by NOV

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

But as regards the big hue and cry about something that for all we know is pretty much the state of affairs in today's world, that is ridiculous.

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Now you are treading on dangerous grounds.
Do you have any statistics to support this statement? Or is based on your circle of friends/acquaintances? I hope you see where I am driving at

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Nov you seem to have missed the part of why Kushbu made this comment.

An opinion poll was conducted by Outlook and published by India Today and Outlook about sex outside marraige which showed that most are not so righteous in India as they claim to be. Kushbu was responding to a query by India Today on this opinion poll.

So whether good or bad her comments have statistical backing.

But come on let us all punish her 'for she has cried out the forbidden truth'.

Thanx, once again, Nov. :)

When the dust settles down, we should say with resignation, "let barking dogs bark". People bent going the way of the temptations of the flesh are not going to listen to reason or sense. Let them go damn themselves. It is a pity, however, like a speeding car splashing mud on the innocent pedestrians. We cant expect thick-skinned, depraved people to appreciate the delicate nuances of decent, meaningful, worthwhile life.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Thanx, once again, Nov. :)

When the dust settles down, we should say with resignation, "let barking dogs bark". People bent going the way of the temptations of the flesh are not going to listen to reason or sense. Let them go damn themselves. It is a pity, however, like a speeding car splashing mud on the innocent pedestrians. We cant expect thick-skinned, depraved people to appreciate the delicate nuances of decent, meaningful, worthwhile life.

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Agree with you on this except the 'speeding car splashing mud' part.

Nobody is splashing mud on others. They are only rolling themselves in mud.

Since we dont like mud we should just keep away.

Yes, but clean people cant help being angered by mud-slingers! :evil:

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An opinion poll was conducted by Outlook and published by India Today and Outlook about sex outside marraige which showed that most are not so righteous in India as they claim to be. Kushbu was responding to a query by India Today on this opinion poll.

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You-all believe that "Opinion poll"????

India today came up with an opinion of poll of "high class" people or "kushboo class". I even remember the article, "maaRivrum Indian women's sex awareness or of that sort" I remember reading a similar article about 10-15 years ago from the same India today. Trust me, It was nothing but BS!

You believe that opinion poll conducted on this kind of issue??? How many women will go talk about sex to some strangers ???

They dont know anything about the reality. Kushboo should have been taught the "right scenario" by C Sundar. May be, he does not know the reality either! I still believe she was ignorant!

Whether the opinion poll was baised or not the fact remains that Kushboo was out of line speaking about such a sensitive issue publicly in the manner she spoke.She should have had more forethought than that..should have realised how the issue would snowball since she is such a public fig.She is ofcourse entitled to her opinion and what she said was not necessarily bad or wrong..just the way she put it is came out crass I think.

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Originally Posted by stranger

You-all believe that "Opinion poll"????

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stranger,
In a country with a population of more than 1 billion, polls take considerable preparation in selecting a sample size and distribution of poll participants. This poll is statistically insignificant, I am sure. Ask any statistician. If it was confined to urban areas like Delhi,Bombay, Madras and Calcutta you can be sure the results do not apply to the general population. If the poll taker ever went to rural areas and asked those questions, he/she probably won't return home alive.
Even some Indians living in the US do not allow their daughters to date. You can imagine how it is in Madras, a conservative metropolis.
India is changing. I see that everytime I visit India. But, not that fast! :)

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Originally Posted by rajraj

stranger,
India is changing. I see that everytime I visit India. But, not that fast! :)

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You made your point clearly and beautifully, raj! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by kumar in Kushboo Controversy thread

As for Kushboo; basically she gave her own opinion on premarital sex and women in TN who practice this. I think she should have thought carefully about this before making such a statement publicly. Common sense would say that some people, genuine and pseudo moralists alike, will take issue with this. After Thankar’s gaffe, Kushboo should have known better to just shut up. The last thing people need to hear after Thankar’s gaffe is someone trying to sound cool, liberal and indifferent on women and pre-marital sex.

As for Thirumavalavan, this man basically needs to be put in his place. This self proclaimed moral police should seriously start re-examining his political stance and future. (In fact I think voters should take a hard look at his political stance. Does he have any thing to offer the common man to make their lives better?) And does anyone see his hypocrisy in all this? He’s against Kushboo’s statement as it attacks the morality of Tamil women. Yet he was silent on Thankar’s insult on actresses. Aren’t actresses women too? It’s quite obvious that he was very vocal on Kushboo’s statement due to his support of Thankar- it’s almost like revenge. It’s pathetic and childish actually.

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I couldn't help posting this here from the Kushboo controversy thread. Not only because it adequately captures my own thoughts and feelings but also is such a logical and well-balanced statement by Kumar! It is the views expressed in the second paragraph of this well-written piece which I tried to endorse. Instead of taking Kushboo apart for a statement which, as Sandeep and A.Ratchasi have both pointed out, was based on the results of a well-publicised poll, people with common sense should have condemmned Thirumavalavan's immature vindictiveness. That was the only point I was trying to make. The wrong tree is being barked at!

Thanks Kumar for this well-balanced view! Sorry, I "suttufied" it like this!

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

Thanks Kumar for this well-balanced view! Sorry, I "suttufied" it like this!

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"Suttufying" accepted, Badri. No problem at all. :wink:

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Originally Posted by NOV

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

It is making a big fuss over it, despite her tendering an apology and stuff is what is idiotic.

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Hasn't the issue settled down after her apology? :huh:

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No, NOV! I beleive someone has filed a defamtion suit against her for having hurt the sentiments of many women!!

Defamation suit?

:rotfl:

Interesting article by Sudhish Kamath in the Hindu!

http://www.hindu.com/2005/09/29/stor...2916020300.htm

Why we Tamilians are so hypercritic and not even tolerate or allowing an actress to tell her opinion? She is not saying that pre-martial sex is the most correct one than maintaining virginity. Even if she had said some thing opposite to our current so-called social values, it is her views and she has full right to express it.

As Badri rightly put it, if we consider the virginity as the status of purity of mind, then most of people from our society may not have the right to throw the stones. When we compare the crime against women (in the form of eve teasing, sexual harassment, illegal/forced prostitution, unaccounted abortion, dowry deaths, female fetus aborting, killing of female babies) and sexually distributed AIDS cases, we Indians may beat many European countries, where pre-martial sex is not a big issue. For example, I would like to quote the latest study by a social scientist Gregory Paul ( http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/con...5/s1470370.htm ) based on the data from the International Social Survey Program, Gallup and other research bodies, in which he concludes that more open society like France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries are most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion. aS i WROTE BEFORE, another best example is about the matriarchal tribal society of China called Mosuo ( http://my.execpc.com/~wmvoice/paper/momnews.htm ), where virginity is not the baseline for a healthier family and crime free society.

Among Tamils (even among their Gods), the virginity is the term only related to women. It very clearly indicates that this is invention of male dominated society with the aim to ensure very own offspring, just like all other animals. “Peyyne peyyum mazai” “Kallanum Kanavan pullannulam purusan” sort of proverbs only indicates how women are brainwashed to believe the golden cage as a beautiful place to live.

Our present day marriage system is losing its value. The “Agananutru Kaadal”, where love is the whole hearted reason to devout ones life and body for his/her lover, is nearly vansihing. What we have is the remains of a marriage system, which is primarily based on the financial and social status of brides and grooms, fixed through the many matrimonial columns. The current difficulties to attain such social and financial status takes away the great youth hood where hormonal activities are very active. Hence I feel it is unnatural to expect highest quality of personal integrity for such financial deal called “marriage”.

I am not supporting perverted society or animalistic way of living or a society where sex is considered as object to sell. What I support is a very open society where the individuals have the chance to live as per their wish (without hurting other’s feelings or harming others physically or emotionally just to satisfy individual happiness), not forced or feared to live as per the opinion of prejudiced views of society. I feel the basic aim of sex is keeping progeny not just pleasure. If two individuals are matured enough to understand and accept the outcome (bringing up the children as long as they are physically and mentally dependent) of such act, then they have the full right to act as per their own interests.

Can anyone, those who oppose her views, explain how her views affect the society?