Violence against women

11 year old brother?????????

As Obelix would say, "These Mastois are crazy"

Nirosha,
Very sorry to hear abt the incident u mention! No doubt very shocking indeed.....but of course I've heard of similar 'revenge rape' cases happening even in Indian villages....and ultimately most hav the same ending- the culprits get away scot-free..... :(
Btw, my frend here tells me an equally brutal case of rape, of a ten-yr old girl tat happened aboard a train journey back in 1994......he cudn't rem. which part of India it hap'd but the worst part is this particular incident was never even reported in ne Indian newspaper/mag....guess y?? cos the 2 culprits who committed the crime together happened to be Army Officers, Lt. Generals or sumthing..... :x Turns out tat altho the 2 officers were found guilty for this act, the Army forbid the Indian press from reporting/publishing this incident in India fearing tat it'd turn out to be a disgrace to the Army....imagine! :evil: :evil:
But it was published in the Daily Tabloid, a UK newspaper, where my friend had found it.....turns out tat when the 2 officers were committing the crime, there was a junior officer/cadet in their train compartment who witnessed it but as his Seniors, they strictly forbid him from telling on them to neone.....but finally weeks later when he learnt of the agony the girl's parents were going thru, he decided to confess it all to their Army HQ, following which the culprit officers were court-martial'd or sumthing.....
But the irony is tat it still took quite sum time in this case for justice, plus the case was cleanly kept hidden from Indian public cos the culprits hap'd to be men of High rank/positions! Damn! :evil: :evil:
And I suspect there mite be a large no. of similar unreported cases in India...?
But if this is how officials of the Indian Army itself (who're supposed to protect our citizens, inc. women/children!) turn out to be, its surely the most pathetic disgrace of all! :evil:

Lordstanher,on the contrary,most of these crimes are reported in Indian media.This country certainly enjoys some press freedom and a bit more than really needed :evil: .The only thing is that it seldom helps.There is a hue and cry for a few days,the media celebrates it and thats it.People forget things fast.

I dont think the army in India is strong enough to dictate terms to the media or to forbid them from publishing anything.The only thing these powerful villains can do is to make sure that it doesn't reach the media. :wink:

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People forget things fast.

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A truer word was ne'er said!! People are so wrapped up in their own individual lives that they cluck their tongues in sympathy for a few days and then it is back to their own sad lives!!

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

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People forget things fast.

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A truer word was ne'er said!! People are so wrapped up in their own individual lives that they cluck their tongues in sympathy for a few days and then it is back to their own sad lives!!

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R all their lives sad?? :wink:
But yes, its true they certainly forget.....barring incidents where the victims r page 3 models! :x

Ugh Sick sick sick depraved people... :evil: :banghead: i could not believe what i was reading makes my blood just boil! do tell me what can we do?...i don't want to just cluck my tongue but what can i do?

Somehow this kind of violence is worst in Muslim societies around the world. Particularly, Pakistan, Bangladesh and all those Arab countries, Pa!! What a curse it is to be born a woman in these places!!

In African societies, it is female circumcision!!! God, why this obsession with private parts alone???? Circumcision is certainly that you know!! Nothing but mutilation, be it for men or women!!
Sigh.....

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

In African societies, it is female circumcision!!! God, why this obsession with private parts alone???? Circumcision is certainly that you know!! Nothing but mutilation, be it for men or women!!
Sigh.....

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I wouldn't bring male circumcision as it is less risky and is advocated by many religions,though I am very mush opposed to the practice.W have to consider the subject under discussion too.

But female genital mutilation comes from all wrong and sexist assumptions.It takes inspiration from a statement which is attributed to Prophet Mohammed[but never proved],when he says,'it brings radiance to her face'.Mostly this is followed in very orthodox Muslim society as people feel that the unwanted desires of the woman will be kept at bay as circumcision either reduces or eliminates pleasure in the act of sex.The very purpose of female circumcision is sexist and is to stop a woman from eating the forbidden fruit.
Ihave heard that in North Sudan 80%women are circumcised,but many of them opposes doing it for their daughters.It is evident that this was done against their will.

It is sheer butchery; done by women shamans under very unhygenic conditions with rusty blades!! What torture for the young girls, Pa!!

For what reason??? Preventing them to enjoy what????? A non-responsive woman makes a frigid partner, Pa!! So, where do they get this notion from??? :shock:

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Originally Posted by blahblah

But female genital mutilation comes from all wrong and sexist assumptions.It takes inspiration from a statement which is attributed to Prophet Mohammed[but never proved],when he says,'it brings radiance to her face'.

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He never said it hence never proved. It's completely a wrong notion. I have done some wide reading and clarified with some Islamic religous scholars on this issue. It's just another false statement attibuted to Prophet Mohammed. It's a rule implemented by some un educated, male dominating societies.
Neither Quaran nor authentic Hadhiths mentions anything on female circumcision. Infact an Islamic Religious scholar told me that this practice is something "Haram" - prohibitted.

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Mostly this is followed in very orthodox Muslim society

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I dont know what you mean by orthodox here. There are orthodox Muslims in all parts of the world. As long as I know it is mostly practiced in Sudan ( as you said) and some parts of India. I have never seen or heard of such a practice among Muslims here in my country.

What ever the reason - it is indeed a highly condemnable act !!! Just another type of violance against women. :twisted:

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

Somehow this kind of violence is worst in Muslim societies around the world. Particularly, Pakistan, Bangladesh and all those Arab countries, Pa!!

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Um...not really all Arab countries.....Saudi Arabia I've heard is a relatively safe place for women.....altho of course they don't hav total freedom in sum aspects (eg. having to wear burka in public, forbidden to drive cars), they r known to hav far better security & safety there comp'd to women who hav more freedom in most other countries.....I believe the punishment for rape/molestation in Saudi is straightaway death sentence and a guy can get arrested if he gives more than a momentary glance to a woman passing by.....!
On the other hand, there r sum Arab countries tat aren't tat safe 4 women even tho they may seem so.....for eg. Dubai, which is known to be a highly cosmopolitan /advanced Arab nation......most of u mite know tat there were many Indian girls/women who were sold into prostitution over there (and then taken to other countries) in the last 2 decades until our Govt. finally woke up & put a stop to it..... :evil:

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

Circumcision is certainly that you know!! Nothing but mutilation, be it for men or women!!Sigh.....

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Again, as Roshan said, this practice is non-existant in most muslim countries, even in hardcore Islamic ones like Saudi......but yes I'm aware tat it still exists in Sudan and even Egypt (where I rem. they'd petitioned to ban the practice in 1997 but itwas declined! :evil: )

Roshan,it was just a typing mistake and what I meant was very orthdox muslim societies in the world.I didn't mean to call thw whole Muslim society orthodox or refer to them in general.No hard feelings please.

Male circumcision is actually being encouraged by doctors for better maintenance of hygiene. But the barbaric African practice of mutilating female genitals need to be condemned in the strongest terms. I remember reading a detailed article about the practice in Readers’Digest long ago. It was a blood curdling article with all minute details of the cruel procedure described in uninhibited frankness. The famous African model who found asylum in England, herself a victim is the loud exponent of this atrocious anti-human barbarity.

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

Somehow this kind of violence is worst in Muslim societies around the world. Particularly, Pakistan, Bangladesh and all those Arab countries, Pa!! What a curse it is to be born a woman in these places!!

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Nirosha, I thought you were a mature individual. Please avoid making such sweaping statements. Please try to analyse the facts properly before giving opinions and please remember the fact that Pakistan and Bangaladesh have elected women as their country leaders in the past and present.

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Originally Posted by blahblah

Roshan,it was just a typing mistake and what I meant was very orthdox muslim societies in the world.I didn't mean to call thw whole Muslim society orthodox or refer to them in general.No hard feelings please.

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No hard feelings at all. I'm not that sensitive as regards religion :) So nothing to worry. I was just trying to point out the fact that - female circumcision has nothing to do with the religion. Besides I very well know that you are one of those who have a broard mind and understanding on such sensitive issues. I have always admired your unbiased views even when it comes to your own religion. I really appreciate that. So no hard feelings at all. :D

Cheers !! :D

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Originally Posted by lordstanher

On the other hand, there r sum Arab countries tat aren't tat safe 4 women even tho they may seem so.....for eg. Dubai, which is known to be a highly cosmopolitan /advanced Arab nation......most of u mite know tat there were many Indian girls/women who were sold into prostitution over there (and then taken to other countries) in the last 2 decades until our Govt. finally woke up & put a stop to it..... :evil:

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lordstanher,

I agree but on the other hand UAE is a libaralized Muslim country where women can just move around without any controls and restrictions. Unlike Saudi Arabia, women can wear whatever clothes they like as long as it's decent. Besides the government has implemented several plans for women's education and the number of local women seeking employment is also increasing.

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Originally Posted by pavalamani pragasam

Male circumcision is actually being encouraged by doctors for better maintenance of hygiene.

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Yes true !!! I remember a detail answer given by writer Sujatha in his book 'yEn yethaRkku yeppadi" on male circumcision. In that he had said, that usually in the US, doctors tend to encourage circumcision when a male child is born (no matter what religion the child belongs to).

Woh!! Roshan???? What's bringing abt this tirade??? Female circumcision is indeed happening in the world, Pa!! And yes, it is only Muslim society that does it although in differing degrees. Some countries do them as total mutilation while others say it's merely a minute slice of the labia!!

I live in a Muslim country Pa!! This was a topic I had a chat with Muslim lady-friends and they said that it was indeed encouraged in their religion but not necessarily after reaching puberty!

Perhaps, they do not choose to talk abt it, primarily because it is a religious issue. The only reason it's been brought to notoriety is because of the publicity that the West has given it and the numerous testimonials that victims themselves have given.

More on Mukhtar Mai's sad tale of horror : Today's papers gives a detailed account on how she was dragged out of a Council meet which had summoned her father and 13 yr old brother.

Mai is from the Gujar clan while her assailants are from the Mastoi clan. Apparently, her 13 yr old brother was allegedly sexually molested by the Mastoi men. So in order to cover up their crime, they cooked up a story abt her brother having had relations with a Mastoi woman!

They had set up a council meet and had tried to drag out her little brother there which was protested by her father, and were both hauled up before the council. In accompanying them there, the defenseless woman was suddenly pounced on by one of the Mastoi men, and dragged away kicking and screaming into one of the houses. The rest of the onlookers merely laughed except for the helpless raving and rantings of her weeping father.......

Despite the recent verdict, Mai continues to appeal for justice! :cry:

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Originally Posted by nirosha sen

I live in a Muslim country Pa!! This was a topic I had a chat with Muslim lady-friends and they said that it was indeed encouraged in their religion but not necessarily after reaching puberty!

Perhaps, they do not choose to talk abt it, primarily because it is a religious issue. The only reason it's been brought to notoriety is because of the publicity that the West has given it and the numerous testimonials that victims themselves have given.

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Please try to understand that just because your friends say - it doesnt mean that it is said in the religion. May be your friends too are un aware or ignorant of such issues. I reiterate that female circumcision is NOT encouraged by the relgion. It's just another form of false belief and practice in the name of religion. For that matter no religion can be excluded of such beliefs and superstitions. If you go to question them they at once would attribute it to their religion or religious custom coz that's the easiest way of getting away with it. Like the 'thaali' issue of that 9 year old kid I mentioned before.

Hi Women hubbers,

For a change, it is time to celebrate-

AsatoMa Satgamaya
TamasoMa Jyothirgamaya
MrityonMa amrutham gamaya
Shanti, Shanti, Shantihi!

Oh Woman!
From untruth, lead me to the Truth,
From Darkness, Lead me towards the Light,
From Death, Lead me to Life Eternal.
Let there be peace, harmony and tranquility.

HAPPY WOMEN"S DAY :thumbsup:

And to you dear Scorpio! :D

Wonder how much we have come so far, in our rights as citizens of the world, Pa?????

There are still women out there who die a thousand deaths each day from mental and physical torture of all kinds. Let's spare them a thought as we ruminate on this special day! :(

Niro,
do u rem. there was an equally brutal rape case in an Indian village (can't rem. where or which state :? ) back in 1982/83.......there were 5 guys who gangraped a woman and even tho she took the matter upto court, they were all left scot-free! :evil: And worse- they even took 'revenge' on their victim by killing her once & 4 all! :evil: :twisted:

PS- Happy Womens' Day to u - didn't know it was today!

Just a follow up on the female circumcision matter

Both male and female circumcision is not a religious requirement.
Rather it is encouraged due to health reasons. :roll:

Circumcision for the girl child is done when she is in her infancy due to obvious reasons.

Anyways, there are 3 hukums (deeds).
i)Wajib
Hukum that falls under wajib are compulsary and are found in the Quran.
Failure to do is very sinful.
Examples of wajib, praying and fasting

ii)Sunat
It is good if you do the deed, where you earn your blessings if done. Otherwise, it is not a sin if you fail to do it.
Example:Circumcision

iii)Makruh
Deeds that are not categorised as sinful or blessings are called Makruh.
Example:Smoking


***words in italics are in malay

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Originally Posted by Roshan

I agree but on the other hand UAE is a libaralized Muslim country where women can just move around without any controls and restrictions. Unlike Saudi Arabia, women can wear whatever clothes they like as long as it's decent. Besides the government has implemented several plans for women's education and the number of local women seeking employment is also increasing.

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Yea I'm aware of tat.....was just trying to explain to Niro tat unjust acts against women don't necessarily happen only in countries tat r more 'restrictive' and dominating towards women, just bcos they happen to be Islamic ones. :wink:

azhagana ratchasi,

You are always an azhagi (meaning great here) when it comes to analysing matters and trying to look at the facts properly. All what you have said is correct and I would like to make a small addition to the following. Hope you woudn't mind :)

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Originally Posted by a.ratchasi

ii)Sunat
It is good if you do the deed, where you earn your blessings if done. Otherwise, it is not a sin if you fail to do it.

Example:Circumcision

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According to the religion, here circumcision means only male circumcision. Infact male circumcision is encouraged by all Abrahamic religions - Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Even now Jews practice it as much as the Muslims do.

Anyways, I think we have had enough on this issue and lets move on to something else. :)

Lordstanher,

Thanks. I understand your point !! :)

Yes, let's move on folks!!! We are all aware of what's happening in societies, regardless of what the Ulamas say!

Ratchasi in particular should know what's happening in the M'sian context despite vigorous denials by authorities concerned. Recent arrest of those young Malaysian women in a famous nightspot is a case in point!!

Sadly, no matter what atrocities are done in the name of God, He/She could never be put in the docks with the rest of us, mere mortals, Pa!!

Niro, yes, I am indeed aware of what is happening locally.

Dont let the zealots' action influence you.
That incident you have mentioned was and is still being condemned by the majority of Malaysians.

I am not going to blame it on religion.
What those fellas did touched perversion at its max.
They are nothing more than a bunch of sick minds trying to play the role of 'moral' police.

Hi Ladies,Happy women's day!It may be a bit of commercialisation, but makes me feel good to say it!
Enjoy yourselves!I was wondering what little thing I can buy for my wife, then thought that I will reach home early and go out with her than falling prey to Archies or Hallmark :wink: .

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Originally Posted by blahblah

Hi Ladies,Happy women's day!It may be a bit of commercialisation, but makes me feel good to say it!
Enjoy yourselves!I was wondering what little thing I can buy for my wife, then thought that I will reach home early and go out with her than falling prey to Archies or Hallmark :wink: .

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Blahblah, I dont know if your greetings would have made my day, but your intention to take your wife out to celebrate the day certainly did! :D

Have a splendid evening! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by a.ratchasi

Blahblah, I dont know if your greetings would have made my day, but your intention to take your wife out to celebrate the day certainly did! :D

Have a splendid evening! :thumbsup:

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Yes !!! :)

AWWWWW how sweet great idea what better way to celebrate than the spend time with your better half :D

Was told to continue here from other topic: crimes against women.

I don't think the crimes against women discusssed and violence against women are the same things. The former refers to physical and psychological injury and theft of property, while the latter talks about physical abuse only. Any way, I did not notice this thread before.

http://www.ctv9.ca/topnews.jsp?id=/n...0050622-04.htm

http://www.canada-city.ca/canada-imm...messageid=3698

Clash of cultures related to murder.

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Originally Posted by blahblah

Hi Ladies,Happy women's day!It may be a bit of commercialisation, but makes me feel good to say it!
Enjoy yourselves!I was wondering what little thing I can buy for my wife, then thought that I will reach home early and go out with her than falling prey to Archies or Hallmark :wink: .

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Why couldn't u take ur mom or sisters out for women's day?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Just joking. :wink:

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Originally Posted by Surya

Why couldn't u take ur mom or sisters out for women's day?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Just joking. :wink:

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Hey machi...u do hav a point man! :D Yea y not mom or sister.......they're women too......can always take ur wife out for Valentine's Day (if u believe in it....I don't!)......or of course ur wed. anniversary! :wink: :lol2:

PS- sorry for the digression!

:lol2: Exactly! Where is our friend BB? :?

Ok, reverting to the topic of the thread......I just read in msn groups abt an incident in bbay where a 16 yr old boy raped his own mother!! :shock: :evil: Tat is simply disgusting......can't find enuff words to describe it! Yuck! How perverted cud u get.....!! :evil: :evil:

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Originally Posted by lordstanher

***** his own mother!! :shock: :evil: Tat is simply disgusting......can't find enuff words to describe it! Yuck! How perverted cud u get.....!! :evil: :evil:

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Sorry Lordshander,
As he3 had pointed out earlier, you can't select some rare cruel events/incidences (call center issue, house wifes becoming victim of internet porno, Dr. Prakash's scandals etc..) and discuss those as the public or general issues.

I feel that this thread will be meaningful, if we talk about sufferings of women due the illogical practices of/mistreatement by a large segment of society (honor killing, dowry issues, fanatical laws/religious beliefs behind cruel punishments to woman etc etc).

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Originally Posted by r_kk

Sorry Lordshander,
As he3 had pointed out earlier, you can't select some rare cruel events/incidences (call center issue, house wifes becoming victim of internet porno, Dr. Prakash's scandals etc..) and discuss those as the public or general issues.
I feel that this thread will be meaningful, if we talk about sufferings of women due the illogical practices of/mistreatement by a large segment of society (honor killing, dowry issues, fanatical laws/religious beliefs behind cruel punishments to woman etc etc).

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U may be right in saying tat wat I mentioned was a rare/isolated incident & not one of a regular/general basis........but I did notice tat sumtimes even an isolated incident involving an 'ordinary' individual is mentioned here & becomes the subject of a discussion relating to a general/public issue.......? :?
Neways, if its considered irrelevant here, I wudn't mention it......! :D

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Originally Posted by lordstanher

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Originally Posted by Surya

Why couldn't u take ur mom or sisters out for women's day?? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Just joking. :wink:

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Hey machi...u do hav a point man! :D Yea y not mom or sister.......they're women too......can always take ur wife out for Valentine's Day (if u believe in it....I don't!)......or of course ur wed. anniversary! :wink: :lol2:

PS- sorry for the digression!

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So here are two big bullies trying to protray a noble act of self sacrifice in bad light. :lol:

You Surya and lordstanher,you may understand that I do not have a sister and my mother stays more than 1500 kms away! Will that be enough reason for one poor fellow not to take them out on women's day????
:evil: :evil: