Ramayana - Another Great Epic

'நிலை எடுத்து, நெடு நிலத்து நீ இருக்க, தாபதர்கள்
சிலை எடுத்துத் திரியும் இது சிறிது அன்றோ? தேவர் எதிர்
தலையெடுத்து விழியாமைச் சமைப்பதே! தழல் எடுத்தான்
மலை எடுத்த தனி மலையே! இவை காண வாராயோ

'While you rule the three worlds,atrocious human beings who think they are great did this to me.Oh Raavana,you cut the head of devas.Oh mountain like brother,You lifted the mount kailash of lord shiva.Will you not come to see how I look now?"

'ஆர்த்து, ஆனைக்கு-அரசு உந்தி, அமரர் கணத்தொடும் அடர்ந்த
போர்த் தானை இந்திரனைப் பொருது, அவனைப் போர் தொலைத்து,
வேர்த்தானை, உயிர் கொண்டு மீண்டானை, வெரிந் பண்டு
பார்த்தானே! யான் பட்ட பழி வந்து பாராயோ?

"Oh Indrajit...Indira sat on his elephent and opposed you with his massive army.You fought with him,defeated him.He sweated in fear and begged you for his life.You spared him and came back victoriously.Oh my great nephew,will you not come to see how I am suffering?"

'உருப் பொடியா மன்மதனை ஒத்துளரே ஆயினும், உன்
செருப்பு அடியின் பொடி ஒவ்வா மானிடரைச் சீறுதியோ?
நெருப்பு அடியில் பொடி சிதற, நிறைந்த மதத் திசை யானை
மருப்பு ஒடிய, பொருப்பு இடிய, தோள் நிமிர்த்த வலியோனே

"Even though these humans look handsome than manmatha,will they equal the dust in your sandals?Oh valianat Ravana,when ashtadig gajas walk in earth sparks will fly in air.They are so strong.You fought with those ashtadig gajas and defeated them."

'தேனுடைய நறுந் தெரியல் தேவரையும் தெறும் ஆற்றல்
தான் உடைய இராவணற்கும், தம்பியர்க்கும், தவிர்ந்ததோ?
ஊனுடைய உடம்பினர் ஆய், எம் குலத்தோர்க்கு உணவு ஆய
மானுடர் மருங்கே புக்கு ஒடுங்கினதோ வலி? அம்மா! "

"Did Ravana and his brothers lose the ability to defeat devas,who equal honey?These 2 humans are full of flesh,they are food for my race.Did my race lose the ability to kill these humans?Oh amma.."

"அரனேயோ? அரியேயோ? அயனேயோ?" எனும் ஆற்றல்
கரனேயோ! யான் பட்ட கையறவு காணாயோ?"

Oh my brother karan.You have the ability to defeat haran,hari and bhramman thmselves.Will you not come to see my sufferings?

'இந்திரனும், மலர் அயனும், இமையவரும், பணி கேட்ப,
சுந்தரி பல்லாண்டு இசைப்ப, உலகு ஏழும் தொழுது ஏத்த,
சந்திரன்போல் தனிக் குடைக்கீழ் நீ இருக்கும் சவை நடுவே
வந்து, அடியேன் நாணாது, முகம் காட்ட வல்லேனோ?

"Oh Ravana,in your sabha Indra,bhramma and other devas will be your slaves and ask you to give them work.7 worlds will worship you and hail you.You will sit like chandran under your umbrella in the sabha.If I come there and show my face,will it not be a shame to me?"

'உரன் நெரிந்துவிழ, என்னை உதைத்து, உருட்டி, மூக்கு அரிந்த
நரன் இருந்து தோள் பார்க்க, நான் கிடந்து புலம்புவதோ?
கரன் இருந்த வனம் அன்றோ? இவை படவும் கடவேனோ?-
அரன் இருந்த மலை எடுத்த அண்ணாவோ! அண்ணாவோ!!

Than naran(human) kicked me and rolled me in floor.He then cut my nose.I am crying while he is enjoying.Isnt this the forest of karan?can such things even happen here?You lifted the mount of lord shiva,oh anna,oh anna.....(anna=brother)

(The above said verse is a very popular verse in kambaramayanam)

'நசையாலே, மூக்கு இழந்து, நாணம் இலா நான் பட்ட
வசையாலே, நினது புகழ் மாசுண்டது ஆகாதோ?-
திசை யானை விசை கலங்கச் செருச் செய்து, மருப்பு ஒசித்த
இசையாலே நிறைந்த புயத்து இராவணவோ! இராவணவோ!!

I lost my nose.Because of my shameless nature I suffered this humiliation.Will not this insult spoil your reputation?You defeated astadiggajas and destroyed their pride.You are king of music and filled the earth with your music,oh Ravana,oh Ravana....

'கானம் அதினிடை, இருவர், காதொடு மூக்கு உடன் அரிய,
மானமதால், பாவியேன், இவண் மடியக் கடவேனோ?-
தானவரைக் கரு அறுத்து, சதமகனைத் தளை இட்டு,
வானவரைப் பணி கொண்ட மருகாவோ! மருகாவோ!!

In a forest lived two (cheap) humans.They cut my ears and nose.I lost my pride and am going to die here like a sinner.You destroyed the family of devas and put indira and his son in chains and made them your slaves.Oh such a great marumagane,marumagane....

'கல் ஈரும் படைத் தடக் கை, அடல், கர தூடணர் முதலா,
அல் ஈரும் சுடர் மணிப் பூண், அரக்கர் குலத்து அவதரித்தீர்!
கொல் ஈரும் படைக் கும்பகருணனைப்போல், குவலயத்துள்
எல்லீரும் உறங்குதிரோ? யான் அழைத்தல் கேளீரோ?'

Kara,dhooshana..You all were born in the rakhasa family with pride and honor and made it great.Oh my Rakshasa relatives are you all sleeping like kumbakarna.....dont you all hear my call for help...?

soorpanaka shouted and called all her relatives in rage.kamban writes even devas shivered after hearing these great names.....

Soorpanaka walks in lanka's streets and Lankans are shocked to see her.kamban narrates is as follows

தங்கையும், அவ் வழி, தலையில் தாங்கிய
செங் கையள், சோரியின் தாரை சேந்து இழி
கொங்கையள், மூக்கிலள், குழையின் காதிலள்,
மங்குலின் ஒலி படத் திறந்த வாயினள்.

Ravana's sister appeared in the way,with hands holding her head,with mutiliated body parts and a wail in her mouth.

முடையுடை வாயினள், முறையிட்டு, ஆர்த்து எழு
கடையுகக் கடல் ஒலி காட்டக் காந்துவாள்,
குட திசைச் செக்கரின் சேந்த கூந்தலாள்,
வட திசை வாயிலின் வந்து தோன்றினாள்

The one whose mouth was filled with evil words(soorpanaka),came complaining as king for justice.Her voice even silenced the sea.Her hair was redder than even the morning sun.She appeared in the western gate of Lanka.

தோன்றலும், தொல் நகர் அரக்கர் தோகையர்,
ஏன்று எதிர், வயிறு அலைத்து, இரங்கி ஏங்கினார்;
மூன்று உலகு உடையவன் தங்கை மூக்கு இலள்,
தான் தனியவள் வர, தரிக்க வல்லரோ?

The moment she came,Rakshasa women of the ancient lankan capital recieved her with unbounded sadness.They hit in their stomachs and cried."How can we see the sister of the one who ruled 3 worlds without her nose and in distress?" they cried.

'இந்திரன் மேலதோ? உலகம் ஈன்ற பேர்
அந்தணன் மேலதோ? ஆழியானதோ?
சந்திரமௌலிபால் தங்குமேகொலோ,
அந்தரம்?' என்று நின்று அழல்கின்றார் சிலர்

"Did a powerful force than Indra do this?" wondered rakshasas."Did a powerful force stronger than the bhramin who conceived the world(Bhramma) do this?After such an atrocity will even the chandramouleeswara supoport this world?" they wondered.

'செப்புறற்கு உரியவர் தெவ்வர் யார் உளர்?
முப் புறத்து உலகமும் அடங்க மூடிய
இப் புறத்து அண்டத்தோர்க்கு இயைவது அன்று இது;
அப் புறத்து அண்டத்தோர் ஆர்?' என்றார் சிலர்.

"Who is powerful enough to do this?In all the 3 worlds we know there isnt anybody who is powerful enough to do this.maybe some aliens from outside world did this" said a few rakshasas.

'என்னையே! "இராவணன் தங்கை" என்றபின்,
"அன்னையே" என்று, அடி வணங்கல் அன்றியே,
உன்னவே ஒண்ணுமோ, ஒருவரால்? இவள்
தன்னையே அரிந்தனள், தான்' என்றார் சிலர்.

"After soorpanaka said 'I am Ravanans sister' who could have dared to do this?After hearing such words one can only fall at her feet and praise her as "oh mother".Instead of doing this is it possible to even imagine such an atrocity?Maybe she cut her nose by herself"-said some rakshasas

'இனி ஒரு கற்பம் உண்டுஎன்னில் அன்றியே,
வனை கழல் வயங்கு வாள் வீரர் வல்லரோ?
பனி வரும் கானிடைப் பழிப்பு இல் நோன்புடை
முனிவரர் வெகுளியின் முடிபு' என்றார் சிலர்

"The person to do such a daring act is yet to be born.Currently no swordsmen have this ability.Or is this because we threatened rishis?" wondered some

முழவினில் வீணையில், முரல் நல் யாழினில்
தழுவிய குழலினில், சங்கில் தாரையில்
எழு குரல் இன்றியே, என்றும் இல்லது ஓர்
அழு குரல் பிறந்தது, அவ் இலங்கைக்கு அன்றுஅரோ

So far lanka has heard only the pleasant noises of musical instruments like veena and yaal.For the first time in history a wail in sorrow was uttered there.

SOORPANAKA FALLS AT THE FEET OF RAVANA

என்று, இனைய வன் துயர் இலங்கைநகர், எய்த,
நின்றவர் இருந்தவரொடு ஓடு நெறி தேட,
குன்றின் அடி வந்து படி கொண்டல் என, மன்னன்
பொன் திணி கருங் கழல் விழுந்தனள், புரண்டாள்

Entire Lanka wailed in sorrow.Soorpanaka fell like a mountain at the feet of ravana and cried and rolled.

மூடினது இருட் படலம் மூஉலகும் முற்ற;
சேடனும் வெருக்கொடு சிரத் தொகை நெளித்தான்;
ஆடின குலக் கிரி; அருக்கனும் வெயர்த்தான்;
ஓடின திசைக் கரிகள்; உம்பரும் ஒளித்தார்

Expecting the rage of Ravana, entire world was covered with darkness.Even Athi Sesha trembled his head in disbelief.Mountains shook,asta dig gajas ran away and devas ran away and hid in fear.

தென் திசை நமன்தனொடு தேவர் குலம் எல்லாம்,
'இன்று இறுதி வந்தது நமக்கு' என, இருந்தார்,
நின்று உயிர் நடுங்கி, உடல் விம்மி, நிலை நில்லார்,
ஒன்றும் உரையாடல் இலர், உம்பரினொடு இம்பர்

Including the Yema who rules south all devas and their whole clan thought 'this is our last day' and trembled in fear.THey literally lost their life in fear and their bodys shook.They spoke nothing to each other in fear.

மடித்த பில வாய்கள் தொறும், வந்து புகை முந்த,
துடித்த தொடர் மீசைகள் சுறுக்கொள உயிர்ப்ப,
கடித்த கதிர் வாள் எயிறு மின் கஞல, மேகத்து
இடித்த உரும் ஒத்து உரறி, 'யாவர் செயல்?' என்றான்

From Ravan's mouth,nose and ears smoke came out in anger.His moustache shook in rage.Like a thunder he roared in rage 'who did this?'

'கானிடை அடைந்து புவி காவல் புரிகின்றார்;
மீனுடை நெடுங் கொடியினோன் அனையர்; மேல் கீழ்
ஊனுடை உடம்பு உடைமையோர் உவமை இல்லா
மானிடர்; தடிந்தனர்கள் வாள் உருவி' என்றாள்

(kamban makes soorpanaka praise rama even now)

"they live in forest and guard the world.They equal pandya king in valor.Their body is filled with eatable flesh.But their beauty has no equilant.They were humans and they did this' said soorpanaka

(kamban uses 'meenudai nedun kodiyon anayar' meaning 'they equal the one with a fish in his flag'.Does this indicate pandya?I doubt it.But who else had a fish in his flag?kamban sung this in chola regime.pandyas were cholas enemies.So I dont know who this refers to.Is anygod there with a fish flag?)

'செய்தனர்கள் மானிடர்' என, திசை அனைத்தும்
எய்த நகை வந்தது; எரி சிந்தின; கண் எல்லாம்,
'நொய்து அலர் வலித் தொழில்; நுவன்ற மொழி ஒன்றோ?
பொய் தவிர்; பயத்தை ஒழி; புக்க புகல்' என்றான்

'humans did it' after hearing this ravana laughed in disbelief and in rage.8 disas shook by that laugh.Sparks flew from his eyes."can humans do such thing?Dont be afraid.Avoid lying.Tell the truth" said Ravana.

Whenever kamban describes Rama,he starts praising him.Now soorpanaka describes rama to ravana as follows

'மன்மதனை ஒப்பர், மணி மேனி; வட மேருத்
தன் எழில் அழிப்பர், திரள் தாலின் வலிதன்னால்,
என், அதனை இப்பொழுது இசைப்பது? உலகு ஏழின்
நல் மதம் அழிப்பர், ஓர் இமைப்பின், நனி, வில்லால்

'Their beauty rivals manmatha.Their body equals precious navarathnas.Mount meru thinks that it has gijantic peaks,but the shoulders of these men will humble mount meru to shame.I am not even able to describe it.They will destroy the arrogance of 7 everybody in 7 worlds within a second by their archery skills' said soorpanaka.

'வந்தனை முனித்தலைவர்பால் உடையார்; வானத்து
இந்துவின் முகத்தர்; எறி நீரில் எழு நாளக்
கந்த மலரைப் பொருவு கண்ணர்; கழல், கையர்;
அந்தம் இல் தவத் தொழிலர்; ஆர் அவரை ஒப்பார்

They will only worship rishis.Their face rivals moon in sky.Their eyes equal lotus flower.They do endless tapas. oh..who is equal to them?...nobody"

'வற்கலையர்; வார் கழலர்; மார்பின் அணி நூலர்;
விற் கலையர்; வேதம் உறை நாவர்; தனி மெய்யர்;
உற்கு அலையர்; உன்னை ஓர் துகள்-துணையும் உன்னார்;
சொற் கலை எனத் தொலைவு இல் தூணிகள் சுமந்தார்

They know all martial arts.They wear sacred thread across their body.They are unmatched in arhcery.vedas reside in their tongue.They are truth personified as humans.They keep their words and speak beautiful words.

'மாரர் உளரே இருவர், ஓர் உலகில் வாழ்வார்?
வீரர் உளரே, அவரின் வில் அதனின் வல்லார்?
ஆர் ஒருவர் அன்னவரை ஒப்பவர்கள், ஐயா?
ஓர் ஒருவரே இறைவர் மூவரையும் ஒப்பார்

How can two manmathas live in one world?But they appear like two manmathas.Which valiant soldier can answer their bow and arrow?Who is there to equal them? ayya....One of them is equal to all Thrimoorthy's (ayya=sir)

Thus praised soorpanaka about Ram and Lakshmana.

thanx vigop for the english translations with the tamil :D just one question what are astadiggas....not to throw you off topic...please do continue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

I have no clear idea about Ramanaya,

but i personnaly think that it describes a war between Tamil speaking ppl and Sanskrit speaking ppl.
It's what Nehru trusted too...

So can someone say and answer me .

thank you.

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:banghead: , Aiyo Aiyo Iswara Iswara, it is not between Languages or ethnic minorities, but a war for justice. moral, dharma between Good and evil, Ram is NEVER described as Lord in ramayana, but an avatar of Lord Vishnu, this epic teaches human moral/priciples/dharma/adaharma/karma...etc

Querida
i think it is ashtadiggajas(8 huge elephants)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raghu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eelavar

I have no clear idea about Ramanaya,

but i personnaly think that it describes a war between Tamil speaking ppl and Sanskrit speaking ppl.
It's what Nehru trusted too...

So can someone say and answer me .

thank you.

---

:banghead: , Aiyo Aiyo Iswara Iswara, it is not between Languages or ethnic minorities, but a war for justice. moral, dharma between Good and evil, Ram is NEVER described as Lord in ramayana, but an avatar of Lord Vishnu, this epic teaches human moral/priciples/dharma/adaharma/karma...etc

---

An example of the kind of Brainwashing that's been going on in TN for Decades!

Viggop,
Thank u Infinatly for those posts!! When I read it, it played like a movie in my head, which is very effective!! :D 8)

Dear Mr."Surya"

// [quote="Eelavar"] I have no clear idea about Ramanaya, ...but i personnaly think that it describes a war between Tamil speaking ppl and Sanskrit speaking ppl... It's what Nehru trusted too...So can someone say and answer me .... thank you.//

// [quote="Raghu"]... :banghead: , Aiyo Aiyo Iswara Iswara, it is not between Languages or ethnic minorities, but a war for justice. moral, dharma between Good and evil, Ram is NEVER described as Lord in ramayana, but an avatar of Lord Vishnu, this epic teaches human moral/priciples/dharma/adaharma/karma...etc.//

Whether anybody believes Ramayana as a True-Story or as a Fiction..

Nobody can deny nor refute the high MORAL- LESSONS imbued in that Immortal-Epic of India...

... a Guidance for Humanity... of any country... of any group.. of any Age.

What is there to BRAINWASH ?... Whom ? For Whose Benefit?..

It is SUICIDAL to blame this Great Unparallel DEPICTION of Life- Realities.... so CHEAP.

In brief... when Good persons apply their Mind and Intellect Wrongly... all concerned become INNOCENT- VICTIMS

There Occurs Ramayana... the Triumph of Good over the Evil-powers...

... whatever MIGHTS one might have gained by other means.

It is not o War between any two countries or the People... but between two Kings... one the Embodiment of Righteousness

... while the other the Great Devotee ... mighty Warrior... STOOPED down too low....as an UTTER- CRIMINAL (Pollaa-Arakkan)

People who glorify Ravana... let them imagine... any Enemy who...

.. dares.to stealthily...Capture another man's wife ... and other Properties..

... as also takes law in his own hands to play havoc on all others and.... justifies his claim of..

.. Superiority... IRRESPECTIVE OF SOCIAL- JUSTICE AND HUMAN- MORALITY!!!

Sudhamma Ji, :shock: :shock: :shock:

Really shocked. I'd think that u'd know my stance on Hindu Epics by now!! :shock:

I was refering to the post by Elavar, about Ramayana being a war between ppl of different languages rather than a high moreal epic, which really happened. :cry: The brainwashing of dravidian extremists by distorting it into a war of the lingos. :)

My Dear "Surya"

// Sudhamma Ji, :shock: :shock: :shock://

Yes... Now I have caught your point.... Earlier it was not clear as to what you meant Really...

In fact I was shocked to note such an ambiguous BLUNT-REMARK ...

... from You... my well-knowledged Friend ... my dear Surya.

I agree with you... on such sick-minded Brain-washing amongst the budding innocent Youth
.

Thanks. Yes, I should have quoted Elavar's post, rather than Raghu ji's. :)

Yeah, It's really sad, because many teens in TN are brought up taught those things even today. :(

Yeah, sadly, some people have also distorted epics in other ways as well. Some extremists have distorted the Mahabharat to make it look like a war between different races and they have distored the Ramayana to make it look like the Ramayana tried to insult people form southern India by calling hte ones who helped Lord Rama.

... Killing VALI by. Rama hiding ! JUSTIFIED ? .. HOW ?

(1) Lord Indra was one of the worst affected due to the Onslaughts of the Wicked- turned Siva-Devotee cum Mighty warrior Ravana.. So he was given a role as Vali with a rare and greater might to defeat his Enemy. Whereas, instead of antagonising his Worst-Enemy, he fell in line with Ravana and made friendship with him quite contrary to the very purpose of his birth as Vali.

Added to such a Wicked-role aligning with Ravana, and capturing his own Brother Sugriva’s Kingdom along with his Wife too

Further he was misusing his Unique might of Invincibility towards his Selfish intentions quite contrary to the Social-Law of Righteousness especially being a King duty-bound to set an example for the Subjects.. by means of Self-discipline

And such a Logical cum Moral duty is the Prime-commitment of the so called God, Indra. Whereas not only he failed in his commitment but also behaved in counter to the Scope itself.

Thus proving so cheap and denigrative un-worthy to be named as the Indira-awathara ... but deserved to be treated only as the Worst TRAITOR.

According to Dharma-Sasthras any Traitor is the Worst-criminal, worse than even the Wiuld-Animals///

.. and so do not deserve any such condideration of the Laws and Regulations applicable to a Warrior or King or of any Human-Status.

.. Other than the only Status as the Social-Enemy alongside the God’s Enemy///

... being the Antagonist to the Moral- Law of Righteousness towards the Well-being of the Humanity.

(2) After getting hit, Vali asked “Oh Rama, I could have easily got back your wife Seetha to you, by my commands to Ravana as also making him apologise by surrendering at your feet. Why have you antagonised me? I am not your Enemy.!!!

For which Rama replied “I do not need any help from you... nor interested in the friendship of the Wicked Enemy to Righteousness... however mighty he mnay be to serve my purpose.

If I do so. it will not mean me as a Royal-birth,... Not even a Warrior... Not even a Man worthy enough to be named as Human

(3)“Then why Rama, you made Friendship with my brother Sugreeva. And after all , we brothers’ quarrel and misunderstanding is our Internal-matter rather our Family-affair. Why you, an outsider should interfere and take sides?

For which Rama replied ”Every Human , the so-called Good-man abiding by the Divine-Law of Righteousness as well as the Moral-code of Humanity, has a bounden duty to protect such Laws in practical-life in the Society around whether directlty concerned to him or not When some Injustice is being practised any Law-abiding Righteous man cannot afford to be a Mute-Spectator...

Otherwise anybody and everbody may take the Laws into their own hands and fool others... stating it as an Internal or Family-affair

And such a duty is more to a Royal-born. So I had to interfere... when you are doing a serious injustice to your own brother.

Besides, when your brother Sugreeva an innocent Victim of grave injustice to him sought my support and help, I had to assure and keep up to my Moral-duty towards Righteousness.. Which I did.”

You are worse than any Wicked Wild-animal, for killing which no Human-Law is applicable.”

(4) Besides, you possess the Unparallel Boon-power of gaining the additional-might from your Face-to-face Combatant So it will become a delicate factor for me either to make that power true in my case or not. So I had to avoid facing you straight.

On hearing such a detailed justifications, Vali was well-convinced and repeanted for his folly as also apologised to Rama.

Accepting the Surrender, Vali was granted Moksha (Liberation from Re-births), .. ignoring all his past sins... which rare gesture benign grace is a rare privelege normally granted only to the Righteous persons of Past-Good-deeds

Whereas for Vali ... it was the Greatest-Favour from the Merciful Rama.

Dear Sudhaama
I thought Vali was born as a hunter and his arrow finally killed Krishna during that yugam.

Thats what kamban writes.Ram and seetha met and fell in love.Rama left with Viswamithra,but poor seetha suffered the pangs of love.She immediatly had a disease called as 'kadhal noi"(love sickness).What was the nature of that sickness?

It was the wound caused by a sword and rope of yama writes Kamban.

பருகிய நோக்கு எனும் பாசத்தால் பிணித்து,
ஒருவரை ஒருவர்தம் உள்ளம் ஈர்த்தலால்,
வரி சிலை அண்ணலும் வாட்கண் நங்கையும்,
இருவரும் மாறிப் புக்கு, இதயம் எய்தினார்

Their looks acted as the pasa(rope) which binded each other and tied both hearts together.The annal(great man) who equalled an idol entered heart of the sword eyed woman and she entered his heart.

LOVE DISEASE:

பிறை எனும் நுதலவள் பெண்மை என் படும்?-
நறை கமழ் அலங்கலான் நயன கோசரம்
மறைதலம், மனம் எனும் மத்த யானையின்
நிறை எனும் அங்குசம் நிமிர்ந்து போயதே

Kamban writes "nayana kosaram".It means seetha stood watching Rama till he went away from the boundaries of her view.Until he became a small speck in the distance and completely disappeared from her eye sight,seetha kept on looking at him.Her mind which was equal to an unconquered elephent was conquered by an angusa writes kamban.

How did seetha look at Rama disasppearing from her eye sight?She stood like a painting without moving her eye lids writes kamban.

பைந்தொடி, ஓவியப் பாவை போன்றனள்;
சிந்தையும், நிறையும், மெய்ந் நலனும், பின் செல,
மைந்தனும், முனியொடு மறையப் போயினான்

She stood like an "oviya paavai"(painting of a beautiful woman).The oviya paavai kept on watching the blue colored theif, till he crossed her nayana kosaram.(limits of eye sight)

After this she had a disease.The symptoms of that disease were horrible.

Sudhamaa wrote:

Quote:

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Lord Indra was one of the worst affected due to the Onslaughts of the Wicked- turned Siva-Devotee cum Mighty warrior Ravana..

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Why was Ravana wicked?? Because he kidnapped Sita to revenge Rama for mutilating his sister? If Ravana was wicked, why didn't he rape Sita while she was in his custody?

There is some silly logic here, that you people talk! Bye!

Actually Ravana was not a very good character.He was a serial offender against women.The reason he did not rape Sita was because of a curse as explained below.

This is a copy and paste
=========================

He raped 2 women. One is Punjikasthala - a celestial women and is cursed by Brahma. The other is Nalakubara's wife 'Ramba' which is what you have mentioned. This curse (of Brahma) is revealed to Janaki through Vibishana's daughter. Due to this curse, Janaki feels confident that nothing will happen to her and she is safe.

When 'Punjikasthala' was violated, The curse was given by Brahma, not by Punjikasthala herself. And Punjikasthala was the mother of Hanuman in her next life. She was re-born as Anjali and gave birth to Hanuman with Vayu as the father. She was re-born due to a curse by a rishi.

Read all the links given below and learn the nitty gritty details.

Links:
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/yuddha...haitrans13.htm

Quote:
Once I saw a celestial nymph, Punjikasthala(by name) flashing like a flame, concealing herself in the sky and proceeding towards the abode of Brahma. She was made unclothed by me and was enjoyed forcibly. Thereafter, appearing like a crumpled lotus, she went to the abode of Brahma. I think that the matter was made known to the high soled Brahama and then the enraged Brahma spoke to me the following words: From today onwards, if you revel with any other woman forcibly, your head then undoubtedly will break asunder into a hundred pieces. Fearing the curse given in this manner by Brahama, I am not violently making Sita the daughter of Videha, to mount on my beautiful bed forcibly.


http://www.dalsabzi.com/Language_Fes...an_jayanti.htm

Quote:

The mother of Hanuman was Anjani who initially was a very famous courtesan in heaven named Punjikasthala.

Punjikasthala was cursed by a sage, who she had insulted and so she was born as a female monkey named Anjani.

Anjani performed penance in order to beget a powerful and swift son, which she did and who came to be known as Hanuman.


Quote:

Ravana himself tells the story of the curse on him to Mahaparswa who advises him to revel in Sita without waiting for her consent. On hearing from Puñjikasthalä what Ravana did to her, Brahma was enraged, says Ravana. "Highly enraged, the creator forthwith addressed the following words to me: 'If you (happen to) violate any other woman henceforward, your head will be forthwith split into a hundred pieces; there is no doubt about it.' Hence, afraid (as I am) of his curse, I do not violently put Sita, a princes of the Videha territory, on my charming bed by force." (Valmiki Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda, Canto XIII, Sloka 13 - 15)

The Uttara Kanda mentions another curse on him. This was the curse of Nalakubara, the son of Kubera. Since Kubera is the half-brother of Ravana, Nalakubara is - in our tradition - to be considered as his own son. Ravana violated the wife of Nalakubara, Rambha, the celestial nymph, that is to say, his own daughter-in-law, and received a similar curse from Nalakubara as well.

The point is, this was the most vital of all information that preserved the life of Janaki in the isolated prison of Asoka Vana, giving her the confidence that Ravana cannot come near her as far as she is firm in her resolve. As Hanuman observes, that Vibishana's daughter passed the information to Janaki was the main reason that strengthened her and continue to wage her lonely war against Ravana. Now, there might arise a question as to what would she have done in the absence of such a curse. Well, it is a matter of hypothesis. In such circumstances, as she herself tells Hanuman and even Ravana himself, she might have burnt him to ashes.

Quote:

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He was a serial offender against women.

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how?? how many victims?? who are they??

enna mannikavum... :(

naan dravida extremists illai.

ennaku theriyum ella indian akkal ore ore manitharkal endu.

i'm sorry for this question. i accept it was a stupid one. And luckily i understood why.

anna verra oru keelvi kekalama ??

ramanayayil enna anda vimana kal ??

i want just to know if they talk about architecture of temple or flying object ?
as I am a science lover... i read some part of Vymaanika-Shaastra...

in the ramanyana, Rama had a flight trip from the Adams Peak towards India, is it only mystical or real fact...??

Have we only just consider Ramanyana as a religious and moralous scripture, or can it too be used as a scientific tool ?

Uthapam
He molested 2 women before kidnapping Sita.They were Punjikasthala and Ramba.Please see the story i posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Uthapam
He molested 2 women before kidnapping Sita.They were Punjikasthala and Ramba.Please see the story i posted.

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Er...logical flaw here!

Ravana molests P, he is cursed that the next time he does something like this, he dies.

Then, he molests R, and receives the same curse.

Looks like the first curse wasn't very effective, was it?

Unless of course, he committed the crimes simultaneously!!

:roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Uthapam
He molested 2 women before kidnapping Sita.They were Punjikasthala and Ramba.Please see the story i posted.

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There must be a 'healthy', positive view of Ravana's action! That's how people interpret when Rama and his 'good' godly kins commit sins!

sbadri
I think different versions of ramayana have different stories.but i guess this curse is what prevented him from trying to molest Sita.
ANyway,even if the curse is not there,Sita would have burned him to death with her chastity.As in Kamba ramayanam,even the fire could not bear the heat of her chastity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

sbadri
I think different versions of ramayana have different stories.but i guess this curse is what prevented him from trying to molest Sita.
ANyway,even if the curse is not there,Sita would have burned him to death with her chastity.As in Kamba ramayanam,even the fire could not bear the heat of her chastity.

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If different versions have different stories (in this case, even contradictory), which then is the correct version? Obviously, as pointed out by me, both cannot be true, so clearly, one is just fiction! Which one?

Why not both, then?

Will laxmi ever become poor?She can become poor it seems.When vishnu is seperated from lakshmi,she becomes poor.That is what Kamban says

இமையவர் கடைய, யாவையும்,
வழங்கிய கடல் என-வறியள் ஆயினாள்

After seeing Rama,seetha lost her heart.Like how the occean which gave everything it had after devas and asuras churned it,seetha too gave everything she had to Rama and became poor.

seetha then wonders about who Rama might have been.

'நெருக்கி உள் புகுந்து, அரு நிறையும் பெண்மையும்
உருக்கி, என் உயிரொடு உண்டு போனவன்
பொருப்பு உறழ் தோள் புணர் புண்ணியத்தது
கருப்பு வில் அன்று; அவன் காமன் அல்லனே!

He who entered my heart and took away my life,he did not have a bow made of sugarcane.So defenitely he wasnt manmatha himself.

'உரைசெயின், தேவர்தம் உலகு உளான் அலன்-
விரை செறி தாமரை இமைக்கும் மெய்ம்மையால்;
வரி சிலைத் தடக் கையன், மார்பின் நூலினன்,
அரசிளங் குமரனே ஆகல்வேண்டுமால்

He looks like a deva.But certainly he wasnt a deva.I know this because he blinked his eyes.Devas dont blink their eyes.So he certainly must be human.He also had a cross belt over his shoulders.So he must be a prince.

when it became evening sky became blue.seetha thinks that,because everybody thought about the blue color of Rama,sky became blue

அவர்தம்
நீல நிறத்தை எல்லோரும் நினைக்க, அதுவாய் நிரம்பியதோ

Everything appeared blue to her.She saw blue in occean,rain water,neelotpala flower and emerald

'கடலோ? மழையோ? முழு நீலக் கல்லோ? காயா நறும் போதோ?
படர் பூங் குவளை நாள் மலரோ? நீலோற்பலமோ?

Rama's situation was no different.He lost his heart to her.He started to tell his pangs to lakshmana.

But what was Rama and seetha's marriage?Was it love marriage or arranged marriage?Did rama knew that he will marry the same woman who he loved when he broke the shiva danusu?Was seetha ready to marry anoybody who broke the shiva danusu?

"No,its a love marriage" says kamban.

what did Rama think when he broke the shiva danusu?Did he know that it was seetha who he was about to marry?What was seetha's mindset when many kings were trying to break the danusu and get her

sbadri99
We can then follow Valmiki Ramayan as the authentic version.
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/yuddha...haitrans13.htm
does mention Punjikasthala :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

sbadri99
We can then follow Valmiki Ramayan as the authentic version.
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/yuddha...haitrans13.htm
does mention Punjikasthala :)

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Yes, that is right! The reason being Valmiki's version got the official "seal of approval" from Rama himself, having been sung in his presence by the twins Lava and Kusha.

I'm surprised that Ravana inspite of being a tapasvi,shiva bhakth,knower of all literatures & music,master of sama veda still cannot control his senses.
the proverb "Those whom Gods want to destroy, he first makes them mad". sounds true in Ravana's case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

Uthapam
He molested 2 women before kidnapping Sita.They were Punjikasthala and Ramba.Please see the story i posted.

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Yes this is so true, had he gone near Sita Devi, Ravana was bound to be killed by the curse imposed upon him

Sbadri annae

Pls reply to my pm, I sent u about 2 weeks ago :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by viggop

I'm surprised that Ravana inspite of being a tapasvi,shiva bhakth,knower of all literatures & music,master of sama veda still cannot control his senses.
the proverb "Those whom Gods want to destroy, he first makes them mad". sounds true in Ravana's case.

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Correct Ravana being an Extreme Mahaeswhar bhaktha had many flaws, another similar example is Banasur from Dwaparak Yuga, during Krsihna avatar

but both(ravana /banasur) of them had super EGO, and SUPER DEVOTION towards Eshwar!!

அவர்தம்
நீல நிறத்தை எல்லோரும் நினைக்க, அதுவாய் நிரம்பியதோ

Very beautiful isn't it? Kambar is to Thamizh what Kalidasar is to Sanskrit.

Quote:

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super EGO,

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This is the only problem of everyone. One can be well versed in scriptures or talents, but if this Ego is not transcended then everything is lost. Mastering ego one gains everything. Ravana is a typical example that by birth and life style he was a very learned person. He also was a great warrior but could not master his ego and battle with it. If we understand that all spiritual practice is to master the ego , then we reap the benefits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pradheep

Quote:

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super EGO,

---

This is the only problem of everyone. One can be well versed in scriptures or talents, but if this Ego is not transcended then everything is lost. Mastering ego one gains everything. Ravana is a typical example that by birth and life style he was a very learned person. He also was a great warrior but could not master his ego and battle with it. If we understand that all spiritual practice is to master the ego , then we reap the benefits.

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Exactly, well said pradheep :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Super Ego-2

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The opposite is Rama who transcended this Ego and so was able to give up easily his kingdom for his family (dad and step-mom's wish) and later in life gave up family (sita) for kingdom. This is how a person acts when he or she transcend's the Ego. Ravana on the other hand sacrificed both his family and kingdom for his Ego. This is the essence of Ramayana.

Questions arise of of whether Ram and seethas marriage was love marriage or arranged marriage.When Rama broke the bow he did not know that he is about to marry the girl he saw yesterday evening.Seetha should have married anybody who broke the bow.Rama broke the bow.What if somebody had broken the bow?

Was seetha ready to marry anybody who broke the bow?'No.She wasnt' writes kamban.

Rama and other princes are ready to break the bow.Seetha doesnt care about what was happening .She was talking to herself.She even starts scolding Rama.She even questions his manhood."Are you a male" she asks Rama.

'பஞ்சு அரங்கு தீயின் ஆவி பற்ற, நீடு கொற்ற வில்
வெஞ் சரங்கள் நெஞ்சு அரங்க, வெய்ய காமன் எய்யவே,
சஞ்சலம் கலந்தபோது, தையலாரை, உய்ய வந்து,
"அஞ்சல்! அஞ்சல்!" என்கிலாத ஆண்மை என்ன ஆண்மையே?

Then she hears the news that somebody has broken the bow.What was her mentality?

Seetha's friend neelamalai tells her that the bow was broken.But from her description seetha knows that it was rama who broke the bow.But she swears to herself that if it was somebody else she will commit suicide.

'கோமுனியுடன் வரு கொண்டல்' என்ற பின்,
'தாமரைக் கண்ணினான்' என்ற தன்மையால்,
'ஆம்; அவனேகொல்' என்று, ஐயம் நீங்கினாள்-
வாம மேகலையினுள் வளர்ந்தது, அல்குலே!

'சொல்லிய குறியின், அத் தோன்றலே அவன்;
அல்லனேல், இறப்பென்' என்று, அகத்துள் உன்னினாள்

Neelamalai said that the one who broke the bow came with the saint and was as blue as a cloud.She said he had eyes like lotus.

Seetha remembered Rama's eyes.How can she forget them?Earlier Kamban wrote about meeting of eyes in many verses

கண்ணொடு கண் இணை கவ்வி, ஒன்றை ஒன்று
உண்ணவும், நிலைபெறாது உணர்வும் ஒன்றிட,
அண்ணலும் நோக்கினான்; அவளும் நோக்கினாள். 35

நோக்கிய நோக்கு எனும் நுதி கொள் வேல் இணை
ஆக்கிய மதுகையான் தோளின் ஆழ்ந்தன;

பருகிய நோக்கு எனும் பாசத்தால் பிணித்து,
ஒருவரை ஒருவர்தம் உள்ளம் ஈர்த்தலால்

So she easily identified the lotus eye.Even the descriptions like 'one who came witha saint' 'blue in color' did not satsify her doubt.

Not many of kings who came to the swayamvara would have come with a saint.None of them would have been blue in color.But even such peculiar descriptions did not satify her.Only the 'thamarai kannan' (lotus eyed one) satsified her doubt writes kamban.

'கோமுனியுடன் வரு கொண்டல்' என்ற பின்,
'தாமரைக் கண்ணினான்' என்ற தன்மையால்,
'ஆம்; அவனேகொல்' என்று, ஐயம் நீங்கினாள்

Thus this is love marriage says kamban.

"'கோமுனியுடன் வரு கொண்டல்' என்ற பின்,
'தாமரைக் கண்ணினான்' என்ற தன்மையால்,
'ஆம்; அவனேகொல்' என்று, ஐயம் நீங்கினாள்-"

Scholars say that these two words, 'கோமுனியுடன் வரு கொண்டல்',
'தாமரைக் கண்ணினான்' have distinct meaning and only kamban coulsd have brought out such profound meanings to these two words!
The first one, 'கோமுனியுடன் வரு கொண்டல்', signifies the human aspect of Seetha. being now in the human form, she was elated to know that the same handsome man whom she saw the previous evening when a saint entered the city of Mithila, followed by two men of whom she had looked at the one with the 'lotus eyes'!
Then the divine aspect of Seetha, who is none other than Lakshmi who has spent Her entire time sitting at His feet and looking at His "Lotus Eyes" all the time , back in vaikuntA , revealed it to her that this 'தாமரைக் கண்ணினான்' is the same Hari who has now come for her!
Thus, both the human and divine aspects of these two characters are explained in just two words by this great poet!

In an earlier verse of the previous evening, kamban also indicates the 'prior' relationship in "pirindhavar koodinaal pEsavum vENdumO?". In th eramayana story, that is the very first time Ramaand Seetha are seeing each other but Kamban saysas above, thereby subtly indicating to us that these two are none other than that Hari and Lakshmi!

it seem that somebody have problem to answer me...

in anyway, thank you very much.

Viggop , you do a great work of pasting , thank you too...

valmiki when writing about seetha being abducted by ravana,wrote that ravana lifted seetha by her hair and touched her legs.The parama bhagavatha in kamban couldnt tolerate this,How can he write that somebody other than Rama touched seetha?See how these 2 poets handle this incident.

Valmiki writes about this as

vaamena siitaam padmaakSiim muurdhajeSu kareNa sah
uurvoH tu dakSiNena eva parijagraaha paaNinaa

tataH taam paruSaiH vaakyaiH abhitarjya mahaasvanah
a.nkena aadaaya vaidehiim ratham aaropayat tadaa

(Valmiki writes as Ravana dragged vaidehi's hair, legs and waist and lifted her into the charriot)

How can the parama bhakthain Kamban tolerate this?

ஆண்டு, ஆயிடை, தீயவன் ஆயிழையைத்
தீண்டான், அயன் மேல் உரை சிந்தைசெயா;
தூண்தான் எனல் ஆம் உயர் தோள் வலியால்,
கீண்டான் நிலம்; யோசனை கிழொடு மேல். 72

கொண்டான் உயர் தேர்மிசை; கோல் வளையாள்
கண்டாள்; தனது ஆர் உயிர் கண்டிலளால்;
மண் தான் உறும் மின்னின் மயங்கினளால்;
விண்தான் எழியா எழுவான் விரைவான்

Kamban writes as ravana lifted the entire hut along with one yojana of land without touching seetha and carried it in his charriot.Kamban did not allow ravana to touch seetha.

kamban even loses his temper and abuses Ravana here.In other places he hails ravana.But here he calls him as "Theeyavan" meaning evil one.

1. Hanuman describing to rAman after his visit to Lanka


கண்டனென், கற்பினுக்கு அணியை, கண்களால்
தெண்திரை அலைகடல் இலங்கைத் தென் நகர்
அண்டர் நாயக இனீ துறத்தி, ஐயமும்
பண்டு உள துயரும், என்று அனுமன் பன்னுவான்.


Not satisfied with his efforts to stress the value of chastity, Kampan once again makes Hanuman to reinforce his points in the course of his report to rAman of what he saw in asOka Vanam and how SIthai was getting along. Hanuman said, " I did see SIthai with my very eyes; I did see SIthai, the embodiment of chastity, across the sea in ilankai. Please forget your sorrow and doubts".


2. Hanuman reassuring to rAman about sItha pirati


உன்பெருந் தேவி என்னும் உரிமைக்கும், உன்னைப்பெற்ற
மன் பெரு மருகி என்னும் வாய்மைக்கும், மிதிலை மன்னன்
தன்பெருந் தனயை என்னும் தகைமைக்கும் தலைமை சான்ள்
என்பெருந் தெய்வம் ஐயா இன்னமும் கேட்டி என்பான்.
(திருவடி தொழுத படலம் 25,26.)

To assure rAman that SIthai had not changed at all during her confinement, Hanuman continued, " Her behaviour was impeccable becoming of your wife, becoming of the daughter-in-law of King Dasarathan and becoming of the daughter of the King of Mithilai Janakan. Please rest assured she is all right".