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CR, adhe adhe. Enna naan indha vishayathula konjam fundamental-a, despotic-a think pandraen when it comes to giving special rights for genius musicians - like I'm removing that clause about "but anyone has the right to disagree with such a view and express displeasure " in your post :-)
Now, can we justify the title of this thread. I am forgetting what i am talking in which post. Relax guys. Lets get back to news.
I had a chat with one instrumentalist (don't want to reveal his name here for obvious reasons) who plays for him. This is how he works, he will give the main melody and ask him to play whatever he thinks good for it, he won't even be there for recording with the instrumentalist....mostly his assistants will be with him and record. He picks the bits he thinks right for the track at a later date and include them. If he thinks the bits gel with another melody, he will use it for that one. So the instrumentalist doesn't know on which track his music will be. It can come out in any one of his tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by irir123
It is not just instruments - even vocals are cut and paste. A friend recently watched in horror at some concert where singers who owe their life to ARR sang in a talent show. He told me later that people are blasting Bhavatharini for her voice - but these singers can't even hold a shruthi. Atleast bhavatharini's sodhappals are not technologically glossed up - these singers no doubt owe their life to ARR.
Bala - regarding pop corn - Raja calls his own popular music in heydays as 'appalam and oorugaai' So this is a 360 degree guy. He knows he is not holier than thou - but he laments that today everything is popcorn - Even a sad song should not contain sobs these days coz it will spoil CD sales. And think of it thaimizh film music has had such a treasure cove of pathos -philosophical songs - where are they now? Who vetoes them down - where is emotional content in the songs of movies these days - Valid question from a legend needs to be answered by every music director of the current crop - his sons included.
side note: KR to his credit has the awesome 'Enaannu solluven' from Kudaikkul Mazhai.
Yeah like we are going to believe that. Its true ARR does get in stuff from technicians like a team effort but composing,arranging is all done by him right to the recording. His songs are evidence of this. Ithu yellam over.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJudge
Hulkster, you got to believe that. He is just a shrewd bits and pieces man, who just like an ordinary programmer would do cuts and pieces and try to create a song. And with the brand name that is associated with his music, it sells like hot cakes. ANd combined with the humility personified image, nobody wud even open their mouth for the truth. Becos, on the other side, u have IR who is a hardcore conformist to his style of music/work/relationship with other fellow technicians/artists. And to add to that, his music sells, and IR's music is no longer a market clincher.People wud never speak ill about success. I know for sure, when IR was at its peak, KJY spoke abt IR as his deivam(this was published in kumudam a few years back when a particular celebrity wud prepare that week's articles). But nowadays, he doesn't even mention his name in interviews etc.
You don't have to believe it but I do, because the talents and knowledge he possess and if I reveal the name, you will also believe. He doesn't need to cook up stories, btw he is a freelancer and has worked and played notes for Raaja also :) I got a chance to meet him accidentally, I asked these questions and he told the experiences he had with both MDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
ramk1 - I strongly disagree with your posting - IMHO, there is no need to find fault with someone without giving substantiated evidence to support the same - sometime back, there was this Apache Indian, Daler Mehndi n then Gurdas Maann n several others who made big names for a short while with the satellite TV revolution, but did they survive ? NO
ARR has stayed in the industry since 1992! he wudnt be here this long, if he were simply a 'shrewd bits and pieces man' as you suggest - even if he was/is indeed something like that, that doesnt matter, since he is accomplishing stuff in terms of commercial viability
We all have our individual subjective preferences for music, and ppl like his music, for reasons of their own - neither can we thrust our preferences over them nor can they - lets leave it at that
PS: btw, I still think a gentleman by the name Vishal Bharadwaj is one heck of a talented composer, but somehow, Bollywood denied him enough space to blossom into a full-fledged composer - and he could have most likely taken the mantle of the next great composer from Bollywood, but somehow it didnt happen for reasons unknown to us- but ARR has stayed, tats wat matters
"Who vetoes them down - where is emotional content in the songs of movies these days -"
Jai, good question. This bothers me. This is what prevents an emotional connect for me to current songs. Vaaranam Aaayiram, - nice plastic feel-good music but even that love feeling seems manufactured than 'real'. 10 times kettappuram...oru salippu.
But I cant question it if a 'current youth' doesnt want that sort of emotion that IR produces(like thalattu ketka naanum).
Mathabadi, it is tough to take "I met a friend who had a friend who saw IR composing..." seriously.
You can fool some people all the time, all the people some time, not all the people all the time. 16 years of continuous, progressive wowing of TN, North India and the World certainly calls for talent. While I am with Jai, who is trying to rebut the mud-slinging on IR, I cannot simply say that ARR is mere hype and a music editor. He is a bonafide composer. Please check out his work with an open mind to realise that. If you are saying IR is a greater composer, thats an opinion, and I share it. But this doesnt need bringing ARR down to zero. That seems churlish to me.
I hope posting this news on this 'IR news and titbits' will not be considered as criminal, as this is not fully about IR.
http://www.tamilcinema.com/CINENEWS/...ry/250209a.asp
He lost his ground in TN long time back probably around 2000, that is just 8 years for him. Now everyone has the lastest mac with them, he can never ever gain back the same status he had here. TN is over for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Mr Jude and Ramk1, Calling ARR a good sound engineer/programmer has been a familiar catcall for IR fans when they judge his work. But as Plum said he certainly is extremely talented.
As i said although he does work in a team and encourages them to put in their own ideas, it aint certainly as bit and pieces as it sounds. Rahman has extremely good knowledge of WCM and carnatic music and as much as his technicians join in it is Rahman who decides the tune,flow and arrangement as every song that Rahman does has a trademark style which only he can do.
If what you said was true, he would not have been able to compose WOHE or even Elizabeth the golden age. Really speculative i tell you.
We must not forget to understand the basic difference in their environments.
IR was 'music assistant' in real sense, and grew into composer and hence the growth was in a particular dimension.
ARR was a musician, who used to jam with other musicians. He was part of Bands he had formed such as 'Nemesis', 'Roots', 'Magic' at different times, apart from being a session musician for film composers. Also, we must not forget that ARR did not even dream about becoming a film composer. He was just enjoying his bands and performances in a 'Team', which even included playing along L.Shankar, L.Subramaniam, Zakir Hussain etc. And add to that, he branched into Ad jingles and later, films just happened. Remember what ARR told SPB (as narrated by SPB) - "i dont think i will survive beyond 5 years". I myself read his interview during Bombay in which he said "There will be some other person 5 years down the line and i might not be in the field.My music is working now, but it wont be the same always". He himself did not 'decide' in those days. Just that he was giving something different and it was working bigtime and since it was working, he was again giving. Thats why he even did Vandemataram(ever wondered why he did not do any other non-film album after that??, if we leave Bombay Dreams etc,which also had film songs only). Slowly he felt that this is his field in which he will stick or a confidence that he can no longer delink from films. and he kept on moving. so, the whole system in which he operated and his own modus operandi was in different dimension ever since he was a kid may be. Now, we cant question his choice of working that way because thats the way he had been. For me, what matters is the output. if i like it, i like it or else, Light!!! Thats why there have always been ARR scores which i liked and disliked, and liking or disliking happened on their own, without any comparisions with IR or expectations to make music in certain way.
I think ARR is strongly into collaborative environment and thats how he has been always. So, there is no point in finding fault with it today as such. It would be like saying "Pt.Ravi Shankar uses too much of classical music on sitar and tabla for films" (only an example).
And i agree with hulkster, it wouldnt be easy to score for WOHE and The Golden Age, both impressed me a lot, without comparing to any work by any other composer or IR. Golden Age too, was in collaboration with Craig Armstrong. (btw, listen to the track 'Dr. Dee Pt.1' in it, it distinctly reminds us of IR, seriously).
One question Jai: Sad/philosophical/pathos songs are classics and a "Tholin Mele" is not??? Or a "Madai Thirandhu"? I don't buy that, sorry, even if its Ilaiyaraaja's opinion. [Ippo irukkara ella 'happy', 'jolly', 'hip' songs ellam classics-a nu kekkadheenga, adhu vera vishayam]Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
Ippo "emotional" song-e varadhillaya? Nalla love-duets varradhillaya? Bhakthi-adippadaila varradhillaya? I mean there are examples for this. Do you deny this? Do you enjoy only one kind of songs? one genre? Do you not listen to other MD songs? If your answer is yes, there is no way you can agree with the popcorn thing. Is there not an A.R Rahman song composed 10 years back that you listen to now?
P.S: What we prefer the most, what we would die for etc - thats a diff issue
From what IR says, his reference of popcorn music is the jamming of guitar like in heavy metal songs by nowadays english breakaway artists and most R and B stuff where their music is derived from catchy loops and programming.
He does not hate pop music and all but he hates the fact that our youngsters(indian) are so interested in their type of music which has no "culture" or proper composing skill(like a song just made to sound catchy with sounds added in there and here).
Quote:
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
I am sure Jai didnt mean that only Sad/philosophical/pathos songs are classics all other are junks. What he mentioned was these Sad/philosophical/pathos songs are becoming a thing of past.
One of the important reason for this from my point of view is, this current generation is not like the angry young generation of 70's who celebrated the philosophical songs and definitly not like the 80's young generation who really enjoyed the love/sad songs.
As they say this 'vibrant' young india loves the happy/cheerful songs mostly. Theres no part for 'sad' in their life, atleast thats what they are trying to belive.
nanchil/Jai/Hulk,
At a general level, i agree. The kostin is, idhellam Ilaiyaraaja sonnadha illa neenga (Jai, Hulk) solradha? :)
Anyway, i think this has dragged on for far too long (enna oru nyanodhayam!). Free-a vida vendiya neram vandhiruchu... Plum sonna 'conclusion' ku vidradhu dhaan best pola irukku... :)
Avaru ennaikku ethai pathhi pesirukkaru, eppavum pola mouna samiyaruthan, namalaathan ithu mathiri ethavthu 'karuthu' sollikittu irukkomQuote:
Originally Posted by crajkumar_be
(kannu theiyathavan etc yaanai thadavi parthu karuthu sonnadhu pola).
Ithu ellathukkum mutru pulli vaikka vendiya neram vandhachhu...... nan intha arguments a sonnen ( ella adiyayum vangikittu vadivelu solra mathiri)
crajkumar_be, this one for u
http://archives.chennaionline.com/mu...0ilayaraja.asp
"On the current trend of re-mixes, Ilayaraja said he had nothing much to say. "There will always be different kinds of music available. Re-mix is like fast food. Some may not like it, others will like it." It is not for us to judge music in its varying moods and forms -- different formats will be available. One can choose whichever form one likes and relish it, said the maestro. Prophetic words, indeed. He has no quarrel with the world and with those who seek fast music. Have your pick and enjoy music, he seems to say."
(ellam mudinjathukku apparama, vadivelu ethavadhu munumunuppaar illa, adhu mathiri ninaichikittu ithoda niruthiruvom.)
Good that everyone has agreed to stop this and hadn't gone 'mudhala avana nirutha sollu' (More like how Vivek would say it :)
What did we stop here :roll: As there were multiple activities happening in various threads for the past few days It was really difficult to follow :( Good that one thread is put to silence now :oops:
I haven't heard any tracks from the movies you have quoted. Whatever I wrote is strictly applicable for songs alone. I don't know how he works for BGM, so don't assume and conclude something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkster
What's this????
http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies...ar-rahman.html
Ithathan naan ARR section-la sonnenQuote:
Originally Posted by buggle
Sila per tham thoom-nu kuthichanga
BTW Rahman :notworthy:
May be old (Sibiraj marriage / reception), but interesting to see IR in a function like this. May be the reception had people attending at different times and easy to avoid "some" people :
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http://www.kumudam.com/images/gal_images/l_597.jpg
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If this is the case every tom, dick and harry can easily create hits and win awards including oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramk1
Pls do not belittle his achievements.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/02/27/stor...2753850400.htm
YSR mailed ARR to convey IR's wishes, this report says:-)
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
If tom, dick and harry works with any english director, they have a chance, I mean it seriously. The future generation will do it with ease is my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle
MrJudge - there is no point, IMHO, on the part of IR fans to remain constantly in a self-denial mode
It doesnt matter how ARR won the award - what matters is he was/is ambitious and works towards his ambition with a single-minded determination - and he is reaping the benefits of those efforts
You and I may not like his style of composing, but ppl like it and today he is popular throughout India and slowly increased his popularity across the world as well
AM not discussing the merits of ARR as a composer - thats beyond the purview here - what matters is even if there was someone a 1000 times as talented as IR, if that person does not make any effort whatsoever, or is not ambitious to get awards, he is not going to get it!
whichever you look at it, thats the way the world is - IR is musically very ambitious, but when it comes to reputationn et al, he is not
We have to live with it - why would this man devote his life-time ambitious project TiS to a non-entity like Fr.Gasper ?? what prevented him from joining hands with someone like Bharat Bala ?? had ARR handled a TiS-like project, he wud have taken it to unimaginable heights - not interms of quality, but in terms of the product reaching the max no of people with fanfare et al -so whose fault is it ?
True, any tom, *ick and harry with any english director, stands a good chance of winning any award in the future ?? whats wrong with it ? thats the way things have always worked
When Randy Newman contested with Vangelis for the Oscars the latter won for CHARIOTS OF FIRE! even today in the US, there are many who are not happy with it - thats the way it is
OTOH, as an IR fan let me ask you, in the last 5 years, how many times have IR fans bought original CDs of IR's releases ? i mean those that were actually available and could have been purchased, and yet, many decided to download the same from dubious sites and there are sites that shamelessly still maintain his tracks/albums!
I understand that one of the main criteria for awards like Oscars, is the record of no of CDs/albums sold! popularity is the key component - how many CDs of IR's have been sold in the last 5-6 years compared to ARR's ? do we have a statistic to prove the actual number ?? even IR does not care about his albums once they are released, at least gives such an impression
IR gave a stunning album filled with Jazz in Mumbai XPress in 2005 - today I cannot get hold of even one COPY of MX online or elsewhere - why ? coz, Kamal and IR badly mismanaged the CD production of MX - whose fault is this ??
Being a prodigiously talented genius is one thing, but being unprofessional, completely oblivious to whats happening to ones own creations is another - cant IR hire a decent professional management team to manage his projects ?? he can but he wont! why ? only his creator knows
Did ARR or his fans or the present Oscar/Grammy committee prevent IR from releasing his much-publicised SYMPHONY of 1993 ?? we dont even know for sure if such a Symphony actually exists or not!! in 1993-1994, IR took all the credit for a work which he didnt not even show to the world - I still remember an interview in 1994, when asked about the symphony, IR said 'it will never come out'! what the heck ??? while at least ARR is getting credit for something that everyone could actually hear!
he wont DO a single thing thats required of present times, but fans like us want him to be awarded bigtime - how is it going to happen ??
so, IMO instead of cribbing about someone else's success (howsoever it might have been achieved), if we ask the above questions, it will dawn on us that if IR did not manage an award of significance, thats his OWN CHOICE! we dont even have the right to find fault in it
Who is this man who is an ardent fan of IR and close to Mani Ratnam ?
http://www.hindu.com/fr/2009/02/27/s...2751240400.htm
He is a film critic of Kannada films in Hindu. He was the one who earlier wrote about going with Myskin for Nandala shoot and later also wrote about recording done by Illayaraja. He had ended that article with "If music is a religion, Illayaraja is GOD".
sures , without seeing that link, let me guess - is that Shivakumar?
irir123, agree with you on not belittling Rahman's achievement and the lack of business sense of Raja and his groupies. I still dont understand why Rahman has to be downgraded to appreciate Raja. Sari, adhu avanga avanga ishtam.
It is frustrating when you cant get a original CD anywhere -even a Naan Kadavul, 1 week after release, cant be found in Mumbai. I mean, forget US. This is India, man. I havent still heard Nandhalala. Had to postpone a Chennai trip and that means I cant hear NL until then.
Any Tom, Dick and Harry cannot win an Oscar when he scores for an 'English' director - this is so obvious that I dont need to repudiate this :-)
irir123: You spoke my mind. I guess.. we need to stop with one sentence..IR is a musical genius...that is it
Rahman says "IR is bigger than Oscars "
http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies...ar-rahman.html
சரியான முறையி்ல் அவரது இசை எடுத்துச் செல்லப்பட்டிருந்தால் எப்போதோ அவர் ஆஸ்கர் விருதினை வென்றிருப்பார் என்று புகழாரம் சூட்டினார்.
raja_fan,
http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/movies...-coverage.html
Full interview is here!
...And also I noticed there is a opinion poll on who is the best composer in tamil. I wanted to see how the trend is and voted for Raaja and saw that Raaja leads by a huge margin :lol: Nammalunga ellam oscar'e vaangittu vanthaalum ARR'a vida Raaja thaan best'nnu vote podraanga, ithu pothum thalaivarukku :notworthy:
Rajasaranam,
Where is the opinion poll ?
If it is in thatstamil, that cannot be trusted !
Also did any English media report what ARR said about IR ?