Writer/Director - Christopher Nolan

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

If Murugadoss was to copy 'Inception' then he should've probably hired a dream stealer and extracted the idea from Nolan. Doesnt make sense..

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ajay
reviews(overseas) supera irukku...pathe aaganum..btw unge signature :thumbsup:

Compli,

Werent Fischer and Eames sharing the dream? In a shared dream, the initiator can make the other 'participants' dance to his tunes if i am not wrong.

Ariadne designs the platforms for each dream so that only the initiator and herself knows the solution of the maze. The platform should not be a replica of the reality is what Cobb instructs her. The hotel, the snow fields shudve been designed by Ariadne.

Yes. Makes sense about Ariadne. She is the architect and the dreamer populates with projections.

While people can share dreams, there probably has to be one primary dreamer. In the case of the snow fortress Eames is the decoy. Fischer (and apparently me) believes that it is Browning's (Eames in disguise) dream, but it is Fischer's dream - Hence the projection of Fischer Sr. on the bed etc...

OK. Still Kick and Limbo based qns to be understood. BTW its interesting that the 'mechanics' of the film are getting all the attention. At some point we'll have to get to the momentarily implied philosophical offshoots.

k-g, still reading...meanwhile, Mombasa is in Kenya isn't it. Not Morocco.

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Originally Posted by P_R

k-g, still reading...meanwhile, Mombasa is in Kenya isn't it. Not Morocco.

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Yeah, but there are men of Arabic origin here, with more of Moroccon styled attire, right? Yussuf is of Arabic origin too.

Btw, I mix up Adriane and Ariadne, in both cases it's Ellen Page's character. Will correct now..

My grouses are

1) It explains a little too much. Sometimes it feels like explaining jokes. Eg. The scene where the henchman falls of the Penrose steps has Arthur mention 'paradox' just in case we didn't understand. I groaned.

2) Some of the dialogues are incredible. People opening up in the first meetings. (this a complaint I have against many but I felt it too sharply hear).

Eg. The concept of inception brought up in one sentence. Arthur's reflex reaction is an explanation to Kaito (in reality to us) and Cobb moving from refusal to interest in under a minute upon Kaito's offer. That seemed very very simplistic to me. It seemed like Nolan was trying to introduce us to concepts, characters, motivations etc. a little too fast and it ended up looking unnatural - it happens in multiple places in the film.

3) Dialogues for effect.

Eg. the old man (presumably) working for Yusuf who corrects Kaito (they come here to sleep) by saying that they "come here to wake up" and proceeds to chastise him with arguably the most important line in the film (sic) "who are you to say it is not their reality?". Kaito didn't even question. And surely there is no 'need' for that man to speak that way in that scene, except Nolan wanted that line spoken.

These are the big things for me to swallow.

Apart from these I pretty much liked everything about the film including the showy parts like the dream big bazooka and Kaito's neat solution of buying the airline :lol:

I particularly liked how Nolan said 'everything'. Leave very little elbow room for alternative interpretations and suchlike. I have something to say, it is pretty difficult to say it, but I trust my craftsmanship enough to communicate this with precision. Don't bother crossing the bridge and meeting me midway etc. All I ask of you is your attention. Actually not even that. Don't bother, I will get your attention.That is MY job

Yeah, Arthur calling it 'paradox', having well dressed Levitt and Page to kiss on couch (although functional), bringing out bazooka, etc seemed childish.

And another showy throw away reference is 'Pegasus' Apartments in Level 1. It's prominently displayed in one of the posters too..

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Yeah, Arthur calling it 'paradox', having well dressed Levitt and Page to kiss on couch (although functional), bringing out bazooka, etc seemed childish.

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Wait...I want to distinguish the first from the others.

The first is, anxiety to be understood manifesting in a dialogue that the film could have done without. One wouldn't call these showy indulgences like one would label the others.

btw what Pegasus?

RGV is saying something about Inception and Nolan in Twitter. Interested ppl can read them..

Hope he is not remaking it in hindi...

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

Hope he is not remaking it in hindi...

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:lol: that would be the day!

but correctaa thaan solraaru rgv avarkal, 'with the biggest budgets they have, they make avatar and inception, and with the biggest budgets we have, we make blue and kambakht ishq" :D

appram 'we all third world, third class directors'-nellaam solraaru :oops:

Oh.. Appo budget irundha avaru Avatar and Inception maadhiri padam eduthu kizhichiduvaarama? Before pointing the fingers on Blue and KI, he better shud look at his own Aag and Agyaat.

I do not claim to tell a story as it ought to be told. I only claim to know how a story ought to be told - Mark Tuwain.

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

Oh.. Appo budget irundha avaru Avatar and Inception maadhiri padam eduthu kizhichiduvaarama? Before pointing the fingers on Blue and KI, he better shud look at his own Aag and Agyaat.

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:yes: :lol: ...VAI MATTUM ILLENA IVANE ELLAM NAAYI KAVITTU POIDUM

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Originally Posted by P_R

the non-triviality of choosing not to drink one's own bathwater was sufficiently profound for me

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Originally Posted by equanimus

Not sure what you mean by "the non-triviality of choosing not to not to drink one's own bathwater"

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The leap of faith.
Why can't you respect something you create? Why does the certainty of that seem less valuable than the uncertainties of 'reality'. In a world where one can can theoretically grant oneself immortality, where one can detail and tailor it to one's fine-ness (and not even Truman show like in being the hands of another, where the relationships are with straw men).

Does it come from one's lack of faith in one's abilities to play God well enough? What is it that we want if we don't the ability to get whatever we want?

Why does reality - a miserable, cruel place, where one is subject to chance - hold such a sway over us be picked again and again?

Cobb thinks Mal is wrong. Does he know for certain that what he believes to be reality is reality? Perhaps the objective observer, like you and me, yes. But to Cobb ? Even an infinitesemal probability that he may be wrong is sufficient to destabilize someone in such a position. It is impossible to imagine that he is "certain" that what he is going back to, the basis on which he is making the decisions, is the reality.

Someone like him cannot be certain. He will have to force certainty on himself. Through logic, through bulwarks like his children and what note. In essence his choice is unlikely to be as simple as a choice between one reality and the next. It is a choice between one belief and another.

He HAS to force himself to believe one. And he doesn't have to explain his choice to anyone.

Did the spinning top in the last frame (assuming it was on permaspin and wasn't going to die a moment after the frame closed) say that a cruel trick was pulled on him ? No, isn't it ?
At that level, by whatever logic he was driven, that was still a consistent decision to make.

Perhaps we will always have to make choices within our levels. Block out certain things and build our own realities. Believe in them wholeheartedly. We may still be wrong, but there is little we can do about it.

And so on....are the musings this film propels me on to.

P_R,
"anxiety to be understood manifesting in a dialogue that the film could have done without"
Okay. I get that.

Still, they are all crowd pleasing blarneys to attract certain age-group - all three scenes got its applause after closing phrase "Paradox" or "it's worth trying" or "Dream big", etc..

Well, Pegasus is just a word with its own history, saw it being prominently displayed in posters and for a brief moment in the film. Thought it could be some code. I guess not..

1. The first 2-3 minutes when Leo(Cobb) was escorted by the Japanese soldiers to a very aged Saito(Watanabe) is the "Inception planting" dream to plant an idea on Fischer (Cilian Murphy). Nolan may have kept scene out of order to give an idea of limbo and why one can age so quickly in limbo state.


2. The dream when Leo, JG Levitt and Saito (when they look young) immediately after the above is the start of the (movie)story. Leo, Arthur and Nass(??) try to steal some information from Saito for Cobalt Engg, but unfortunately he was trained for this sort of a mind heist and it fails.

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Originally Posted by Nerd

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Originally Posted by P_R

Some parts Nolan overexplains and makes convenient conversation (people talking too much or surface-y in first meetings), that didn't sit well with me. But overall highly excusable.

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Yeah. The multiple levels and the sedatives were explained 2-3 times at least. So andha parts ellaam fairly well understood but first 15 mins dhaan suththamaa puriyalai.. Where did the dream start, the purpose of it, the twist (audition) etc.. Should watch again.

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Thanks Feddy. I understood 1), but don't know how Saito managed to trick him as in 'You were only auditioning for me' to Cobb :? I have to admit that I was a little lethargic when the film started and I started concentrating only after Ellen's entry. But this was one of the very very rare occasions in which I did not look at my watch in a cinema hall and the film was about 2 hours and 30 mins long. Thoroughly arresting :bow:

The dream, before Cobb retrieves the confidential info to the 'reality', collapses. This is a failure in itself. Apart from Saito's training, poor architecture designed by the then architect (Ariadne's predecessor) accounts for the failure. I dont remember if Saito had bought out that architect before the audition. This is why Saito praises Cobb for living upto his reputation but warns him to select a better team for the 'inception'.

I Didn't understand few scenes,will read all the posts here and will watch the movie again..but the execution is awesome,mind-bending experience... Nolan :bow: :bow:

Booked for 10.05 PM show tomorrow! Bring on wednesday I say :evil:

Why nobody has uttered a word abt the film's soundtrack?

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Originally Posted by ajaybaskar

Why nobody has uttered a word abt the film's soundtrack?

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IMO,

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Zimmer tries his best to hold the pastiche together and gives emotional cues too. But, for all the greatness of elaborate orchestration, it's the minimal usage (almost zero) in the final shots, the "Top" whizzing down the table, that provides the most brilliant piece of cinema. Despite the deceit of it. That one scene proves Nolan's credentials in audio visual sense, but expected lot more rhythm, timing and patience in other sequences. However such minimalist usage of 'Top' in big budget grandscaleness is refreshing and ironic.

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Downloaded the soundtrack. Amazing on its own (on second time watching the film, I'm seeing why he's the one who binds every stage & makes it seem 'interwoven' so to speak) :clap:

My pick is 'Mombasa' apart from the main theme.

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Compiled my thoughts here..

The genre reduces Cobb's moral fallibility to its favor. For all the espionage, the thief himself, Cobb, has no sense of 'reality' and perhaps his guilt is possibly repressed/thieved out of him. And to Nolan's favor, the catharsis of the film doesn't bog the viewer at all. The fake ending, which calls attention towards its ambiguity, gives it a positive tone. If for whatever reason it goes against his favor, he'd be 'aware'. This ending pleases Cobb and the audience, to keep 'em cocooned to such a 'state of reality' and sustain the self-contained dream. And for the first time, there's an unison of delight on all our part(s)..

Addendum:
Multiple interpretations of the ending is less rewarding..As I said, the fake-ending is more 'spiritual' than we might think. It's the only moment of unison for all the audience, that's of delight. The slow-mo and slow, upbeat music is very 'transient'. Not a lot of words are spoken here. Saito begins the plan for Inception with a rhetorical question, Are you ready to take a leap of faith..Older Saito, in Limbo, repeats this question too. And both is sandwiched in the film by Mal uttering a similar rhetoric before committing suicide (all this according to Cobb), to take the leap of faith in uniting with her, in death...So perhaps the quest here is 'spiritual', how ironically, the whole film is of "Corporate" espionage. Where individuality has no face value.. Yet this film has existential themes of redemption and spirituality.

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On re-watch, one could find more currency in solipsist self-desires of the film. Characters are 'reflections' of one other, or in the film's own lexicon, projections in unconscious ways.

If not the recurrence of paternal sentiment, role reversal and 'dead ringer' registers are attempted - Saito and Cobb in particular.

In particular, they engage in duologue of completing each other's sentences, a repetition of their earlier conversation. It seems somewhat 'cyclic' feeling true of Limbo itself. That it serves to remind Saito of his association with Cobb is one thing. But especially how the key de facto motives are,
a) To take Leap of faith
b) Not to die an Old Man filled with regrets
It's a) (Saito belief in Cobb in Limbo and Cobb's belief in Saito in taking up Inception) that's imperative to service their causal imperviousness in short-circuiting b)

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Originally Posted by kid_glove

In particular, they engage in duologue of completing each other's sentences, a repetition of their earlier conversation. It seems somewhat 'cyclic' feeling true of Limbo itself. That it serves to remind Saito of his association with Cobb is one thing. But especially how the key de facto motives are,
a) To take Leap of faith
b) Not to die an Old Man filled with regrets
It's a) (Saito belief in Cobb in Limbo and Cobb's belief in Saito in taking up Inception) that's imperative to service their causal imperviousness in short-circuiting b)

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Very well put.

Regret is theoretically impossible in a world where one can build purely on one's will and consider those who populate as one's projections. When Cobb 'rejects' Mal, he says she is not his wife in all the richness of reality but a 'mere' projection. That seems to be his 'clincher' in rejecting her companionship in favor of 'reality'. But consider the richness of the reality is itself evanescent (as Mrs. Cotard famously observed: 'everybody disappoints'). So what then is lacking in such a seemingly desirable permanence? Does the inferiority stem solely from one's consciousness that this is not real? Isn't that itself something that one can, at best, be fairly certain about, particularly in relation to 'other realities' that are up on offer.

While every choice is motivated by one's aim to minimize regret, the only way-regret is avoided by most people is by blocking out thoughts about the 'what ifs'. When one considers with an open mind every possibility, it is virtually impossible to be satisfied with one's choices. Yet we choose. We have to. And it is our choice that makes what we choose a reality and what we leave behind a dream.

saw it last night at bloody INOX :hammer: theateraa adhu? Naansense!
Movie was WOW! Vaaippillaamai. One gud thing for common people like me is they tried to explain concepts thru dialogues. Nolan :notworthy: kaalai kaattunga sir.

bit too much info for me. I could see myself trying an inception on my own mind acting as separate entity, in dream during my sleep last night! Mental aayitta maadhuri oru feeling. Thala suththudhu.

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Originally Posted by P_R

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Originally Posted by kid_glove

In particular, they engage in duologue of completing each other's sentences, a repetition of their earlier conversation. It seems somewhat 'cyclic' feeling true of Limbo itself. That it serves to remind Saito of his association with Cobb is one thing. But especially how the key de facto motives are,
a) To take Leap of faith
b) Not to die an Old Man filled with regrets
It's a) (Saito belief in Cobb in Limbo and Cobb's belief in Saito in taking up Inception) that's imperative to service their causal imperviousness in short-circuiting b)

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Very well put.

Regret is theoretically impossible in a world where one can build purely on one's will and consider those who populate as one's projections. When Cobb 'rejects' Mal, he says she is not his wife in all the richness of reality but a 'mere' projection. That seems to be his 'clincher' in rejecting her companionship in favor of 'reality'. But consider the richness of the reality is itself evanescent (as Mrs. Cotard famously observed: 'everybody disappoints'). So what then is lacking in such a seemingly desirable permanence? Does the inferiority stem solely from one's consciousness that this is not real? Isn't that itself something that one can, at best, be fairly certain about, particularly in relation to 'other realities' that are up on offer.

While every choice is motivated by one's aim to minimize regret, the only way-regret is avoided by most people is by blocking out thoughts about the 'what ifs'. When one considers with an open mind every possibility, it is virtually impossible to be satisfied with one's choices. Yet we choose. We have to. And it is our choice that makes what we choose a reality and what we leave behind a dream.

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This is a typically fecund comment, P_R. There isn't much to disagree here. You've mused it well..

k-g/ajay, can someone provide me the link of the soundtrack? :roll:

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Originally Posted by jinju

k-g/ajay, can someone provide me the link of the soundtrack? :roll:

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Option-1: torrent download
Option-2: Share a dream space with Zimmer and extract the music notes from his brain

I downloaded via torrents.

I dwlded via torrents too. I listened to it again on the way back home. As is my case with Zimmer, the tracks wear down, unlike contemporaries like Newman (his association with Mendes), Giacchino (especially Up), Desplat (Host of French films, especially A Prophet, to his Hollywood ventures from Syriana to The Ghost writer) and Jon Brion's (the stuff he does for Kaufman and PT Anderson) to name few. :oops: This devolution of Zimmer is pretty similar to my experiences with Greenwood (There will be blood), Philip Glass and to some extent, Clint Mansell. That is to say, they exude a bit excessively than what the visuals warrants so as to let the BGM bind together as in case of Inception where we have different levels coalesced and linked. But on subsequent exposure, the effect is reduced. There are exceptions. For example, Zimmer's minimalistic work in "As Good as It Gets". This type of overbearing composition needs more precision in its nuances one feels. It's not such orchestration don't appeal to me. Likes of John Williams and Ilaiyaraja don't turn out to be 'recursive' and seem perennially inviting.

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Originally Posted by jinju

k-g/ajay, can someone provide me the link of the soundtrack? :roll:

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Here you go.

http://d01.megashares.com/?d01=upUS43h

Not as impressive as the DVC or A&D though, which I adore :D.

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Originally Posted by k-g

Desplat (Host of French films, especially A Prophet, to his Hollywood ventures from Syriana to The Ghost writer)

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Awesome soundtrack this !

Yes, Pity that I've only listened to Desplat's OST, without having watched the darn film. :sigh2: Dvd release date (3rd august) announce pannitanga. Can't wait for the rip..

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Yes, Pity that I've only listened to Desplat's OST, without having watched the darn film. :sigh2: Dvd release date (3rd august) announce pannitanga. Can't wait for the rip..

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Rip is out k-g. I have seen it :P :D. The OST is a perfect fit to the movie

Damn! When did it come out? Last time I check there were only fake ones in torrents. Please post the torrent you downloaded (if you can)..

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Originally Posted by kid-glove

Damn! When did it come out? Last time I check there were only fake ones in torrents. Please post the torrent you downloaded (if you can)..

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Pmed..

Tried to explain the story line to one of my colleagues. Reply - "Machi, Video Game maadhiri yEdho try pannirukkaannu sollu". I was :shock: