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The piece that gets the cake is the allegation that kamal was implying that cross saving vasu's kid. Shall we say asin was saved because she was chanting perumAL during tsunami?(And before that as well). Not to mention tightly hugging a perumal statue all through. Beat that for protection!
Seems plausible. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
simple logic, Asin was the heroine, she had to stay alive for commercial reasons :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Wah wah! Just shows we decide on something and look only for clues corroborating it while ignoring clues that negate it.
Ok let me open another front against kamal. Being a vaishnavite, he deliberately showed shaivites in bad light and reinforced the mahimai of vishnu with the statue saving the world(and asin and govind). The dalit christian dies for upper caste children which shows what kamal expects of dalits. The vishnu statue swallowed the visham(vial with virus) thereby even appropriating a shivan myth into vishnu. Kamal is actually a iyengar fascist :huh:
yeah, that suits both of us. Y couldnt poovaragan gifted the child something like chocolate or a teddy bear or simple 100 Rs note from his walllet? why KH the writer specifically wants poovaragan to gift his cross to the kid? why should KSR the director keep a tight close up for that so taht the audience shouldnt miss the connection? the truth is out for everybody to see, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
thats what people like charu claim him to be. wanna join hands with Chaaru? :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Mosque saved muslims
Perumal statue saved asin
Cross saved child
All religions covered-nga. ninga 1 and 3 mattum paarkaringa. 2 En unga kaNNukku padalai. It doesn't suit your narrative right?
The other question is why kamal would highlight divine protection. I remember posting in dasa thread about red herrings. Will try to find it
:notworthy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Mosque saved muslims: overtly acknowledged
Cross saved child: covertly acknowledged
Perumal statue saved asin: refuted
isnt this right?
Appo idhu varaikkum kamal padamaa edutha vishayangal ellaame personal and direct experience thaana? Plus from whatever he has shared abt his personal life he has lived a very aloof life compared to siblings with respect to traditional hindu upbringing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
negatives mattum illai positivesum sonna thaan oru community paththi balanced perspective irukkunnu solla mudiyin(ippadi ezhudhinaa dhaan hubla neraya perukku puriyudhu - kaala kodumai). Kamalukku hinduism paththi irukkaradhellaam kaamalai kan.
All this is because of an inferiority complex which he alludes to in Nammavar (with reference to a stammering boy) - mathavan kindaladikarathukku munnaadi naamale kindal pannittaa naan thaan nadu nelamai - eppadi en bourgeois secularism?
Kalyan, so your problem is that Kamal seems to imply that the "hindu" God is weaker than the "muslim" and "christian" Gods? Idhukku theLivA badhil sollunga. NAn ipdi kEtka oru kAraNam irukku
Jai, ningalum unga kuyhambina kuttaila meen pudikkara techniquem :)
:exactly: :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
yaenga - neenga thaan inga phlasapy wholesale rights vechirukeengala?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Hub writing is like a choir - only difference is that not all are required to sing the same song.... ;-)
Jai, I was just kidding. Adhaan :) ellAm pOttOmla!Quote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
Kalyan, that's monumental miscomprehension. I was deliberately being obnoxious to show that it is possible to paint any colours we want to Kamal via his movies. As it has been repeatedly pointed out, Kamal's spiritual views are quite complicated and cannot be easily bucketed. Joe had linked an excellent article analysing this. Adhai vida theLivA sollamudiyAdhu.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
What I am saying is that you are the other side of charu coin, trying to paint kamal leftist based on some vague clues while Charu tries to portray him as a rightist with a similar approach.
Ninga en kELvikku badhil sollunga appurm innoru charu bomb pOdarEn :)
Kalyan :shock:
Rape scene la "Narayana", naamam in another scene, idhellam endha kanakku?
:confused2:Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
If God is an intelligent protector then why unleash this havoc or rather 'why enable man to think of nefarious schemes' that will unleash havoc ? This is the question he asks. This was pretty much a non-denominational question.
"enna maadhiri design idhu?" appidinnu A.Ars kEtta adhE kostin dhaanE idhu.
With that question, Govind kinda refutes every 'saviour theory'. And Asin's response is there is probably some reason/design which is impossible for us to understand. Such an explanation is unacceptable to the rationalist Govind.
The film grants no acknowledgement of 'saviors' whatsoever.
And, I keep mentioning every time, he has made frontal attacks on Abrahamic faiths too, which are centered around the return of the savior:
maRumuRai varuvadhaai solli
mAinthavar vandhadhE illai
thodarvadhu naamE - naaLai
varuvadhu vERoru aaLE
Lines from the title song in Hey ! Ram which he himself wrote.
Here he refutes the supposed divinity of anyone who says I will be back to save you, resurrect you etc: be it Krishna, Jesus or Mohammed.
I guess, what you are perhaps looking for is, nakkal/kindaL of Christian/Muslim faiths on the scale of Hindus. True he doesn't do that. And you are probably also right that that reason for that is the huge variance in the degree of tolerance.
But are you suggesting that that 'lack of tolerance' is a good thing?
Correct me if I am wrong, I sense something like 'if only we Hindus were as touchy' then no-one would dare etc etc. Did I get you wrong?
I, for one, feel it is quite important to have sivaperumAn blow bubbles and say "trolley forward" (Plum note this for mock essay: yet another instance of vaishnavite fanaticism!)
Let's seeQuote:
Originally Posted by jaiganes
Mahanadhi - yes, it was the experience of an innocent producer friend. Ofcourse, the friend didn't cut off his hands to kill a criminal. Friend daughter jailor son-ai kalyANamum kattikalainu nenaikkrEn
Chachi 420 - don't know what to say. I hope youu didn't include this in your question
Virumandi - ofcourse his personal experience of the milieu, culture and people is what makes the movie.
Anbe sivam - I find it hard to defend nasser's character in this movie. Not a favourite in particular for me. Fell free to open a discussiom and deconstruczion of kamal's motives based on this movie. I hope someone like feeyaar or kid glove will pitch in for this one.
Gunnaa - I"ll be frank. I haven't fully absorbes this movie. Till now. Which is why I hesitate to call myself a kamal fan. But again one can see his personal vision seeping through - again this is not google search but he has absorbed abirami andhaadhi at an early age. Don't forget that his influences, apart from his absolute brahmin of a mother include a drama troupe who would frequently have to refer to hindu tropes for their performances. Can he study quran and do similar stuff out of it, possibly blaspheming it to the delight of some here? Possibly but how can you replicate that absorption from young age - the engagement with that text at different points of his life, his perspective changing as he grows and all that culminating into this movie? Catch my point?
Hey Ram - perhaps, this was actually a google search movie in that Kamal actually painstakingly took efforts to present his complex vision of complex issues including spirituality and hs social study of the same. Again, this self-contains refutals to allegations of his pro-muslimness so perhaps he already has done the google search movie I was alluding to!
And I forgot a vehicle painted with either a variation of vishnu's name or nAmam appearing miraculously whwnever kamal/Asin jump from any height :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Actually, feeyaar, nInga avasara pattuttInga. IdhayE nAn "charuu bomb" levelku pOdalAmnu irundhEn once Kalyan answers my question on hindu gods and muslim gods. Sari ippOvE pOttudarEn.
Now, the cross saved the boy. Sari. Why didn't jesus, then, save poovaraaghan who has actually been Chrisitian for longer time and a believer in Christianity? The boy is just a accidental holder of the cross. AppO Jesus enna dumb-nu solraarA kamal? He is anti-christian I say!
(Don't forget that 2 out of 3 christian kamals die in the movie. Bush real life characterA pOyittar illaina avariyum pOttu thaLLi iruppAr indha Kamalahasan. And why "Christian" Fletcher? Why not David or Keith or Duncan? ChristianinAlE ulagathai azhikka nenaikkaravangannu kAtta dhAne apdi pEru vechAr?)
Or is Kamal is implying that even Jesus will save a hindu boy over a lifelong christian so is he actually covertly preaching people to convert to Hinduism?
:)
FYI anbe sivam marxism and the paintings scene is direct takeoff from a true historical incident involving rockefeller center controversy. It was neatly shown in the english movie Cradle will Rock.
But is that central to that movie's vision and kamal's anti-hindu stance?
P.S:ofcourse I knew that thing
ethu .. neenga mathakkalavaratha undu pannama pooga maatenga pola :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Sila kalagangaL thEvaiyAnavai. Ofcourse, I am being obnoxious there - consciously. If I can recognise when I am obnoxious without being cognizant of it, I probably need an equal and opposite obnoxious person to get me to understand my own obnoxiousness.
Again, if we tend to see such attempts to see both sides of the coin as kalagam inducing and sweep under carpet, that is when we'll forever be condemned to platitudes on bhai-bhai and manufacturing consensus, which will not last
Panchathathiram la solradhu madhiri.. Kelvi kaetkiradhu easy....Bathil solradhu kashtam.. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dinesh84
Kamal kitta direct ah indha questions ah kaetta kooda bathil kidaikiradhu kashtam..
:yessir:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Plum and P_R-Some good points there.
But I will stick to my stand that he adopts a much more simplistic/childish approach to religion in his movies(P_R has already given an explantion for this which looks likely) though based on some very insightful interviews,he is much more aware/well read.Makkalukku puriyadhu enra bayama ille simplistic approach with a strong anti-hindu/brahmin bias is the flavour of the season enra nenaippa theriyadhu.
The grouse atleast for me is that when you can be so ruthless with a particular religion/sect/community what prevents you from doing the same to the others.
I am not convinced by the explanation that he has more authority cos of his upbringing,regarding other religions he has to do google search/answer quiz(Plum might have said it in good humour but if taken seriously is pretty lame).
If he goes slow due to tolerance issues,then something is seriously wrong.Where is the famed unmai/nermai etc that he talks about while going around pandering to only certain sentiments.He looks hypocritical right?
P_R,in today's circumstances,many hindus have a feeling that they are being taken for granted while others have a sometimes violent touch-me-not attitude and so everybody licks their a#*,lack the guts to point out their filth and allow them to get away with anything.
These sentiments should be nipped in the bud by bringing in a semblance of balance in behaviour/talk/action atleast by people who matter.
DMK, ADMK maadhiriyaa :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
Let me put it this way. IppO kamal oru padam muslimsai bayangaramA nakkal/kindal paNNi eduthA all crimes forgiven/forgottenA? :)
avasiyame illai. hindu / brahmin bashing stop panninaale pothum
wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
excellent response sakala. :thumbsup:
entha paatti?!? the one which rationalist govind says "unga paattikkum sari, unga bagavaanukkum sari, (mind) just not there" nnu solluvare antha paattiyaa? ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)
To borrow and modify from Jaiganes "Govind enna vaLLuvarA?" Avar solradhu dhAn kamalOda real karuthA? pAtti vEsham pOttadhum kamal dhAne? Really, when she said that enakku maarula adichA maadhiri irundhadhu because my near and dear ones are like that :( (and it is not as if they are exceptions). Some people might have felt that Kamal was making fun of iyengars by making those characters like that. But enakku apdi thONalai.
Asin's character otoh was a strawman for govind to make his points just like Maddy was in Anbe Sivam. That, I agree.
And ninga solradhu irukkattum. Cinefan thodangi palar inge why can't he spoof or insult muslim texts-nu dhAnE kEttAnga? IppO goal post shift pannaa epdi?
Nevaire!Quote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
எல்லாரையும் திட்டணும்னு சொன்னா அதுல ஒரு நியாயம் இருக்கு. யாரையும் திட்டக்கூடாதுன்னா எப்பிடி.
Feeyaar, in englis plis!
Plum, in English please! :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
there are 2 states. either blame everybody or remain silent. but do you expect in any time will he bash muslims, christians, or the aruvaal castes of hindus?? angellaam potrippaadadi penne paadittu kadaisila thaan ubathesam solluvaaru. whereas cross belt communitynnaa straight bashing thaan.
athaan avangalai neradiyaave nakkal naiyaandi ellaame panniyaache! innum enna baakki irukku?!? inimelaavathu mouth close panninaa athuve pothumdaa saami
but, with what we smell, with marmayogi, again, he goes back to bash saivaites whom kazhuvetrified samanars.
ellAraiyum thittaNumnu sonnA adhula oru nyAyam irukku. yAraiyum thittakkoodaadhunnA eppudi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
kAttumirANdippaya koottam-nu thittiyum point-ai miss paNNi 'pOtri paadadi'yai anthem-A use paNNA ennA seyyuradhuQuote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
2 state ultimatum rejettedQuote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar