Suresh65, Naalum En Manam has a fantastic bass line...check it out.
Thanks for your kind comments. During the 80s, there were so many hit songs from hit movies, that many gems like these went unnoticed...Raja was so prolific.
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Suresh65, Naalum En Manam has a fantastic bass line...check it out.
Thanks for your kind comments. During the 80s, there were so many hit songs from hit movies, that many gems like these went unnoticed...Raja was so prolific.
Shank,
'naalum en manam' came out in Telugu as 'prema ledhani' from the movie 'Abhinandana'. I have heard that song quite a few times. The whole 'Abhinandana' album is a gem. (Couple of the songs appear in Tamil movies as well.)
Very true about Raja in 80s. He was so prolific that even his die-hard fans are still finding new gems!!
Naalum En Manam is a superb song.. one of my all time favorites.
The movie nilavu suduvadhillai that had fantastic songs such as 'pAri jAtham pagalil pooththadhu' and 'nALum en manam' was directed by K Rangaraj, who was somebody those days (assistant of BR, did unnai nAn sandhiththEn & udhayageetham with motherland pictures - the producer who got great songs from IR regularly).
This movie obviously was a non-starter (either never got released or bombed at BO).
K Rangaraj got another splendid score later on for the movie unakkAgavE vAzhgiREn, that had the classic 'kaNNA unaiththEdukiREn vA'.
Unlike ManivaNNan, the other assistant of BR, however, K Rangaraj was not an IR loyalist as he did at least one with S-G even in his initial days.
One basic question: Can anyone tell me what is the meaning of the name of this thread? (i havent been visiting this thread because i am not able to get the context).
raagas,
I remember writing about the title when the thread was opened. In Tamil it says, " Illayaraja song that you enjoyed recently: Part 3". This is the continuation of the 'Latest Raja song heard thread'.
Plum: Can you put the translation in English for non-Tamilians?
Translation enna. EnglishlEyE pOttuttEn.
(VadiVel: adhAn indha threadu ivLO sulOw-vA pOi kittirundhudhA...)
Kadellam pichu poove - IR
indha paatuku romba romba kiruku naan.
Kadellam pichu poovu - IR
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00278&lang=en
Thanks Suresh & Plum. It definitely helps :-).. atleast for me!
No problem raagas but where is your song now that you know the thread title :)
Vennilavin Pera maatrava from Ramana: http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00558&lang=en
What an amazing composition! If you notice, all the pieces are actually the 80s Ilaiyaraaja ideas only, but executed on new instruments with absolute technical finesse that it sounds absolutely contemporary. The bass guitar (or slap bass) has such strong presence. I would rate this song and "Meetadha Oru Veenai" as two absolutely stunning fusion driven songs in his post 2000 works. Yes, there are many as well, but these two work largely within the "old wine in new bottle" construct! brilliant!
What a coincidence suresh! was just writing it and as i post it, your post appears!
raagas,
Thanks for Vennilavin. romba munnadi 3 time kaetu iruken.
Beautiful fusion...
enna enna ragam iruku indha paatula?
IR had done some killing numbers...this is the one from this category..whenever you hear..you will be lost...
Nee Paartha Paarvaikku from Hey Ram...
as per app, even though its from old lady.... :)
May be it's my "conditioning" problem, but the songs of HR, while decent, do not give me the kind of "total satisfaction" as in the case of regular IR numbers :-( I used to listen to them frequently when the CD came out but over the years, not much interest is left for them.
'nee pArththa pArvaikkoru nanRi' also falls in this category, though it's way better than 'rAman ANdAlum' or 'pollAtha madhana bANam'.
I'll rank it along with 'Ram Ram' (fantastic percussion work) and 'isaiyil thodanguthammA' (great singing) - good songs that can be compared with the best of any current MD but not with the good ones of IR (see, I'm not even comparing with his best / great works).
These lack possibly because of the circumstances (last minute fill-in and the songs were basically "BGM-like"). Sure it was a challenging situation musically to IR and he came out decently but the free-flowing creativity (like what one sees with even MMKR kind of album) is missing.
Any day I prefer 'annalakshmi kaiya vachchA' , 'kombula poova suththi' & 'onna vida' to 'nee pArththa / Ram Ram / isaiyil' - if we take IR-KH(direction) combo songs:-)
Ofcourse, I love pAtti singing than the pathetic HH in nee pArththa pArvai (actually, the best part is the BGM when the poem is being read out). Also, unlike many who go gA-gA over the piano score in this song, I'm not that impressed - quite average/underwhelming in comparison to what piano scores I regularly hear (mostly non-TFM).
If I compare HR with TIME (came out just about the same time period), it'll be like this:
Time - 7.5/10
HR - 5/10
oops, sorry for the long blA-blA :-(
App, I won't give rating to IR albums. as frequently I used to change the ratings from time to time....
I do not know its the problem with me or IR :)
Some more songs...
This is a beautiful song...
Naanirukkuam Andha - Azhagiye Kanne
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00070
Terrific groove...
Pookal Sindhungal - Nizhal Thedum Nenjangal
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00435
Superb song, amazing stanza negotiation...
Mangala Vaanam - Nizhal Thedum Nenjangal
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.php?ALBID=ALBIRR00435
Poothu Poothu Kulunguthadi Poovu from Kumbakkarai Thangayya - http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00311&lang=en
I got into listening to 90s village theme based songs. This is a decent album with lot of good songs. Nice to revisit after a while.
app,
Asha - paati nu soladhenga.... :(
two more Gems of Asha
Unnai Naan parthadhum - kannukoru vannakili
wat a composiiton............
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00273&lang=en
Meera -
All are Sweeeet ....
Pazhaiya
Oh butterfly
Pani vizhum - I love this song toooooooooo much...........
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00363&lang=en
app_eng,
My situation is very similar wrt to 'Hey Ram' songs except that I consider 'isayil thodangudhamma' a top class song which can be ranked along with Raja's best. Other songs have not made a major impact I would say. As you said, it could be that Raja had to force fit the song into something which was already picturized and probably did not have much leeway. Compared to the other Raja-KH albums like Guna and Virumandi, I listen to 'Hey Ram' less often and that too I listen mainly to 'isayil'.
good to see different opinion on HR...even though IR done it for already picutrised, I have a opinion that HR is one of the best from IR on the orchestration.
Sriranjani raagam!Quote:
Originally Posted by tvsankar
I couldnt understand the aspect of doing songs for picturised scenes. Lets look at the film/songs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaraagam
1. Ram Ram - Comes in the end, with no lip sync - Hence it might not have been that difficult for IR.
2. Chaahe Pandit Ho - Comes with full lip sync - If IR composed this song after picturisation, he would have gone to Guinness Book of Records. Because, practically speaking, it is impossible.
3. Janmon Ki Jwala (Nee paartha): Am not sure about this song. It comes like a montage with Rani Mukherjee reciting poetry. Do you guys think, this is a lip synced one?
4. Har Koyi samjhe (Isaiyil): Background song
5. Prem Baan (Marathi Lavani): comes with shots that have lip sync and shots that dont have lip sync - This could be a song which he might have composed after picturisation.
6. Sanyaas Mantra: It is more in dialogue form.
7. Vaishnava Janatho - Lip Sync - given that this song is short, there could be a possibility that IR might have composed it looking at lip sync.
What I am trying to say is.. composing songs looking at the screen and reading the lip movement is practically not possible. I never understood the claims that he did it looking at scenes. It is believable if he did it for scenes that do have lip sync (he did that many times before all along 80s, 90s). but composing a song that obeys the lip movement of the actors on the screen - too far fetched! impossible, practically speaking!
whats your take guys?
raagas,
I guess you do not know the background here. The songs of the film were first composed by L Subramaniam. From what we were given to understand from the press statements, these songs were picturized. Towards the time when the film was getting ready to be released, there were serious differences between Kamalahasan and L Subramaniam regarding the compensation to be paid. Since LS thought that what KH was proposing as a compensation was ridiculous, he walked out of the film. Kamal then surrendered himself to Raja, asking him to provide the BGM and give the songs for the movie. He couldn't use the songs given by LS. So Raja now had to re-create the songs using the lyrics as well as the lip movements and the scenes that were actually shot. Yes, it was an almost impossible thing but according to all reports, this was how it was done. Going by this background, you can see what Raja had actually pulled off. Kamal did not have to re-shoot the songs. (It would have been almost impossible given that the songs had people like Rani Mukherjee and Shah Rukh, who were the busiest people in HF that time!!)
I kind of back raagas here. I dont exactly understand how a lip-synced song can be set to a different tune, and if so, how different.
In a way, I feel, even if he did, it is kind of a mode where your choices are restricted and you choose. Like, there is only so much variation on tune you can do to that lip-sync and you choose one among those limited variations. Ofcourse, only a truly gifted composer can see those variations.
Unless we get to hear the LS versions, it is difficult to form an objective opinion on this. As a fan(atic), ofcourse, I'll uninhibitedly talk this up.
Usha Chechi,
Sorry if I hurt your sentiments. I'll refrain from the pAtti usage hereafter.
Latest IR number heard and ringing continuously in my ear : 'engEyO, EdhO, pAttonRu kEttEn'
(PS-SPB, nathiyaiththEdi vandha kadal)
Very sweet!
Plum,
Very true about the restrictions when you are retuning for an already tuned song. It will really be an interesting exercise to compare what LS had tuned and what the tune of Raja was. I am sure no one is going to release the LS version. Given the circumstances then, I do think this happened and Raja did compose for those already tuned numbers and ensured lip sync.
Isayil Thodangudhamma - One of Raaja's very best (Singing of the highest order too)
Raam Raam - 8 shots of adrenaline and awesome singing to boot
Nee Paartha Paarvaikkoru - Beautiful song
The only bad song is "Raamar Aanaalum", which is rank bad even by Srikanth Deva's standards...
I second what Suresh mentioned. I have personal knowledge that what Suresh described is true. There were also some idealogical differences besides the compensation issue.
That's why it's mind boggling to even imagine what Raja did for Hey Ram.
Also, here's an old KH interview that I chanced upon...
http://www.screenindia.com/old/feb04/cover.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shank
Typical of Raja :-)Quote:
How have you succeeded in getting such fabulous results out of Ilayaraja?
It’s not only because of our longstanding association. I’ve worked extensively with other composers as well. This man is on his own trip. He’s a colossal talent. He saw the rushes of the film and decided what he wanted to do.
உனை நானே அழைத்தேனே
உயிர் நீதான் இளமானே
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00091&lang=en
ஓல குடிசையில பழஞ்சேலையில்
ஊஞ்சல் ஆடும் குயிலுக்குஞ்சு
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/album.ph...R00445&lang=en
Ola kudisailey is good one. complete raining effect will be there.
Suresh & others,
I know the background... the whole payment issue between KH & LS and how IR was roped in. I also know that LS composed songs and they were picturised. And that KH decided to scrap the LS songs bcoz of copyright issues or whatever and asked IR to start afresh. I read that interview long back, during the time before Hey Ram's release and that interview got me excited about the music back then. I was excited about KH roping in LS and then i read about the problem and IR's entry. I agree till here. But my question is, which songs were those that were composed looking at the lipsync? There were hardly any songs that had lipsync firstly.
Vaishnava Janatho (short song) & Chahe Pandit ho are the two songs that have complete lipsync. The Marathi Lavni has few lipsync shots and few montage shots.
If you look at Chahe Pandit Ho song, it is a energy packed song, fast paced number. Now, if LS had composed a song for that situation and KH,SRK had already shot that song, Then Composing a new song reading their lip sync and expression (according to the lyrics) is something unimaginable. And it is too far fetched. The composer needs to have same metre and same aalaap at places that would match the actor's aalaap expression (try the word "Sun Zaraa" that comes in the song). And the actors are dancing there. Thats impossible guys! The song looks like any normal song - composed first and picturised later. Because, there are no long shots to cover up some technical issues etc. All are close-ups. You can see actor's lipsync in each and every line of the song. I request you all to watch the song once and try imagining if such a feat is actually possible. I somehow dont buy it.Logically speaking, it doesnt seem possible.
Secondly, I agree if the number of lipsynced songs are more and repicturisation gets difficult. If the only song was "Chahe Pandit Ho", i dont think it would have been a big deal to re-shoot the song for freshly composed tune. Afterall, the whole song was shot in a set.
I suspect it could be the Marathi Lavni song that has partial lipsync and partial montage shots (that could have been used to overcome the hurdle)
raagas,
Only KH or IR or someone who has worked closely in the film can clear this mystery. As to which was an already picturised song for a LS tune for which Raja retuned. Till then we can only speculate :)
While I guess KH and LS must have broken off the relationship after this, the relationship between LS and Raja seems to be quite strong. Read an article recently which said that LS introduced Raja to someone saying that Raja is a genius.
Yes Suresh, It all seems bit weird. Come to think of it, if IR really composed new tunes looking at lip-sync, he would have ended up with Guinness Book. I guess when KH was saying "already picturised songs", he meant the songs that were not lip-synced.
And yes, both LS and IR have mutual admiration for each other. IR admired not only LS, but his brothers L.Shankar and Late L.Vaidyanathan (who passed away few months ago and IR visited the family to express condolences) too. IR worked with LV infact (under G.K.Venkatesh). I dont know if IR worked with LS anytime. On the other hand, ARR did work with LS.
Shank,
'naan irukkum' is superb. Vintage Raja. Fantastic tune. I can't think of any other MD even dreaming this!!!
I have heard the terrific 'Nizhal Tendum Nanjangal' songs earlier based on a reco here. What a groovy guitar and sax in 'pookal sindhungal' !!
He in fact pointed to Raja and told that "God of Music" is here in that function.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65
I heard/read somewhere that, IR got confirmation from KH that, LS compositions should not be released in any format to avoid comparison. Only KH & IR knows the differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Sureshs65