My god! Though interesting, it is very difficult to navigate back and forth to post replies and go back to the original page to continue. May be I will continue some later. :-)
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My god! Though interesting, it is very difficult to navigate back and forth to post replies and go back to the original page to continue. May be I will continue some later. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Krishnan
Mr. HariKrishnan,
Why should that Brahman curse Karna specifically on the wheel of his chariot ... I wonder why should he take that particular aspect to curse on Karna....
Normally while cursing, its natural human tendency to come out with whatever that one gets into his mind...
Can you pl enlighten us on this ..
Mr. HariKrishnan,
Why Karna could not get another Chariot ? ( I had raised this query earlier )… As a Commander of the Kaurava force, he should have had adequate back up and reserves… Also, if Saliya had ditched him in between, Karna should have had back up for that as well…Was it not a tactical blunder by Karna….
or probably at that time, the force was reduced bare minimum...
If Draupadhi was so admirable character, why did she comment on Duryodhana like…. THE SON OF A BLIND MAN IS ALSO BLIND … etc etc ( I am not getting the exact wording but she had conveyed similar to this it seems )Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Krishnan
Was it a spontaneous reaction ….There was no other news after that Draupadhi apologizing to Duryodhana for having uttered such insulting words on his Father…
Besides, Draupadhi uttering of words on Karna when he comes to participate in the contest to marry her….
There is no doubt that disrobing Draupadhi is a sinful act... but the above incidents might have provoked and triggered both of them to think and react negatively against Draupadhi ??
Karna had picked up a quarrel with Salya, who was his charioteer at that time. You know the saying 'a bad workman quarrels with his tools.'Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Balaji
The chariot getting stuck was just one of the reasons behind the defeat of Karna and was not the only one. Of course, replenishments were on way for Karna. If one remmbers that it was the 17th day of the war, one can see easily that they (on either side) were not left ith much resources. But, Krishna advices Arjuna (this is there explicity in Bharata) 'Kill him before he ascends another chariot.'
I agree that Karna was a great philonthropist et al. But it is also true that Vyasa classes him as one among the 'dushta chathustra' - evil four. The worst rogues ever. Karna's character is a mixture of the good and the evil. The evil side was high.
I am amazed at the kind of arguments that have taken place here. Please do not get carried away by cinematic/TV portrayals.
On the friendship of Duryodhana and Karna. There is not a single line in Vyasa Bharata to the effect 'edukkavO kOkkavO.' I welcome anyone to disprove me.
This particular incident is depicted in Bharata Venba. As far as Vyasa Bharata is concerned, even this good streak is not noteworthy. If he was such a great friend of Duryodhana, please do tell me why he ran away from the battlefield, when the Gandharva Chitrasena tied Duryodhana to his chariot wheel and dragged him along? Why he - once again - ran away from the battle field when Brahanala (Arjuna) fought with all of them, single handedly.
At least six or seven instances can be quoted when Karna deserted Duryodhana, in times of need.
Number one: A character is not assayed on the basis of an isolated incident. Every character has its plus and minus points. It is like what Valluvar said, 'guNam nAdi, kutramum nAdi..... mikka koLal.' What I said above is based on this 'mikka koLal.' This incident of Draupadi laughing at Duryodhana is a bit exaggerated one. Everybody laughed at the way he behaved that day and she was one among them.
This subject cannot be convincingly explained in a single post. I will give a complete description of the incident later.
Why would you expect Draupadi to apologise to Duryodhana later? Did Duryodhana apologise for any of his attrocious ways? From the first plot to kill Bheema, Arakku Maligai et al?
It was true that Duryodhana was disappointed at not being able to get Draupadi. And that was at the root of all the troubles, as far as Duryodhana-Draupadi incidents are concerned.
You mention about the words of Draupadi about Karna. One should not forget that it was Swayamvara. Which means, the bride is free to choose her groom. But from the persons who first qualify, stringing the bow and striking the target. She has every right to reject a person whom she did not like. I do not see anything wrong in what she uttered.
'I won't marry you Suta, even if you string the bow and strike the target,' was what she said. Now, tell me what's wrong about it? The reference to the unknown birth? Or the word Suta? Suta does not mean Sudra, please. That is another popular myth.
You are welcome to tell me how these incidents were at the root of all the troubles that Draupadi and Pandavas faced later.Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Balaji
[quote="Hari Krishnan"]
Correct. A character should not measured by an isolated incident..Quote:
Number one: A character is not assayed on the basis of an isolated incident. Every character has its plus and minus points. It is like what Valluvar said, 'guNam nAdi, kutramum nAdi..... mikka koLal.' What I said above is based on this 'mikka koLal.' This incident of Draupadi laughing at Duryodhana is a bit exaggerated one. Everybody laughed at the way he behaved that day and she was one among them.
but was it true that she uttered such words...
In my opinion, anybody will get furious if someone utters wrong about their parents .... I expected some respectable behaviour and treatment to someone WHO WAS THEIR GUEST...
I think we should not equate Draupadhi with others as Duriyodhana was known for his wickedness. and bad character...Quote:
Why would you expect Draupadi to apologise to Duryodhana later? Did Duryodhana apologise for any of his attrocious ways? From the first plot to kill Bheema, Arakku Maligai et al?
but Draupadhi need not follow the same path...
I FEEL IF SHE HAD APOLOGISED TO DURYODHANA... THE VARIOUS EVENTS WHICH FOLLOWED WOULD HAVE BEEN AVERTED..I MEAN.. THE ACT OF DISROBING... AND ALSO THE WAR....
Pls comment...
Do you mean that Duryodhana also wanted to marry Draupadhi ?Quote:
It was true that Duryodhana was disappointed at not being able to get Draupadi. And that was at the root of all the troubles, as far as Duryodhana-Draupadi incidents are concerned.
Agreed... it was a swayamvara and Draupadhi had the right to choose her choice...Quote:
You mention about the words of Draupadi about Karna. One should not forget that it was Swayamvara. Which means, the bride is free to choose her groom. But from the persons who first qualify, stringing the bow and striking the target. She has every right to reject a person whom she did not like. I do not see anything wrong in what she uttered.
'I won't marry you Suta, even if you string the bow and strike the target,' was what she said. Now, tell me what's wrong about it? The reference to the unknown birth? Or the word Suta? Suta does not mean Sudra, please. That is another popular myth.
Was there any eligibility criterion that a non Suta only can participate.. Was it part of the criterion set by Durupadha...
If Draupadhi is known for her wisdom.... THE SOURCE AND THE ORIGIN OF ONE'S BIRTH SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR AT ALL..TO DETERMINE ONE'S RIGHT OR CHARACTER OR TRAITS..
This is my humble opinion...
[quote][quote="Hari Krishnan
I am amazed at the kind of arguments that have taken place here. Please do not get carried away by cinematic/TV portrayals. [/quote]
Sorry Mr. Harikrishnan...
Atleast my postings are not with reference to Cinematic / TV portrayals..
I am not sure about the source for others ...
Most of my references are from either Chakaravarthy Rajagopalarhari or from other sources but not from what you had mentioned as TV or Cinema...
Balaji
If duryodhana had also apologised , and renounced the kingdom etc., then too nothing would have happened.Duryodhana wanted kingdom and moreover he wanted to get rid of panadavas.the kingdom alone will not satisfy him.when yudishtra built indraprastha, why did Duryodhana want that too. he wanted everything for himself + pandavas to be gone for good.
Harikrishnan Sir
The story of Vidura accdepting the banana peel was shown in TV serial only. :oops:
I welcome you to present the right facts about Draupadi so that we get more knowledge.I've not read the Vyasa original mahabharatha.I've read Rajaji's english translation of Mahabharatha.