TIRUVALLUVAR-EluPirappu and Vedas
Friends,
FSG twists what is not said by me,
EluPirappu is not Seven, but Several- or Precisely Eluthal Raise - AND I quoted Kural 339, means:
It is like Sleeping is Death- Vuranguvathu Pol Sakkadu and
It is like Birth is like Raising from Sleep- Vuranghi Vilipothu pole Pirappu.
Friends, how many times do we sleep and raise- certainly not just Seven times, and Elu is taken as Eelu(7) is meaningless, and saying Week has Seven Days are nothing connected with it and Twisting Tiruvalluvar out of what he has said, and ThenPulathar finally FSG, says is Direction which Koorram faces, and that is clearly Vedhic Tradition.
Vedas where called MARAI- as it is normally not writtend Hidden- Maraithal- this is because the Vedas are as per Internationally Concluded Opinion of 1000 OF uNIVERSITES, 2000-600BCE, whereas Panini wrote Ilakkanam only in 450-500BCE, and Vedas does have lot of variations and unless you get thru a Guru with Proper Interpretation, you would loose meaning- Hence VEDAS are then Unwritten- MARAI, and we
HAVE on Kural from THIRUVALLUVA MALAI, song by Velliveethiar,
Cheyyamozhikum Thiruvalluvar Mozhintha
Poiya Mozhikum Porul Ondre. Song 23, Thiruvalluva Malai.
Morethan 500 RESEarch papers have analysed and concluded that all References in TholKappiaym, Sangam and Post Sangam Literature are Vedas- Rig Yajur sama and Atarva, and I have given PAVANAR words on this earlier, and I repeat:
" Nalvetham or Nanmarai, Arangam Agamam enbana ellam Arya Noolkale enbathum, Thirukural thavira ippothulla Pandai Noolkalellam Anthanar enbathum Brahmararie Kurikkum Enpathu Sariye."
Page- 102 Tamilar Matham
Now HypoCrisy of 20th Century brought many Fradulant Scholars and few Speculated of Vedas coming from Tamil to Vadamozhi, Friends Give me One Quote from Ancient Sangam or other Literary Proofs and stop posting wrong and Proven Wrong Hypothesis as a big evidence.
Friends, One Neduncheliyan brought about First 4 Adikarams of Kural as Interpolations and FSG wants to Jump on it, and I WOUld take them in my next posting.
Please Read Valluvam from it and not impost your misviews on Valluvar.
MosesMohammedSolomon
Re: TIRUVALLUVAR-EluPirappu and Vedas
Quote:
Vuranghi Vilipothu polum Pirappu.
Ezhuvathu & Vizhipathu are different words. Infact Solomon twisted that word for his own wishful thinking. 'Ezhu' means 'Muzhumaiyakath Thondruthal". 'Vizhi" means "kan Vizhiththal". Solomon twists this meaning. One phrase "Vizhithu Ezhuthal" always used in tamil. This shows (Vizhikaamal) Ezhuthal is different from Vizhiththu Ezhuthal. Vedhic blind can not understand this. Who did actually twist ?
I quote from Thiruvalluva malai,
"Kadukaith thuzhaiTHEZH kadalaip pukuththi
Kurukath thariththa kural" -
"Anuvaith thuzhaiTHEZH kadalaip pukuththi
Kurukath thariththa kural"-
Ezhkadal specifies in both the 'Malai's the number seven. I expressed 7 days along with some other examples to show that no. 7 was thought as 'holy number' during olden days. 'Ezhu suram', 'Ezhu ulakam','Ezh Uoozh" were some other phrases used during that time. Valluvar specifies this unlike solomon wrongly interpreted.
I ask the readers to go through any dictionary of tamil to have "Kotram,Kootruvan,Kaalan & Eyaman" meaning and they clearly specify Arasan,Moothathaiyar,Munnor and none other like Inthiralokam or Chandralokam yaman God imaginated by Vedhics.
I again and again told "Krishnan,Inthiran & Varunan" are natural gods of tamil and there is no root in Sanskrit for these words quoting P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar & Ayothidasa Pandithar. These worship were copied with all imaginative stories in Vedhas.
Likewise tamil Occulstism was copied with newer imaginative stories in Chathur Vedhas.
Solomon accepts that Vedhas were not written and its oral tradition presumably told by Vedhics. When alphabets were there earlier than 1st century CE why they were not written before and written only after 1st century CE? Readers shall think it over.
Solomon here conform after written they are not Vedhas as per his wishful presumed meaning of Vedha. Why should we call them as Vedhas?
Vedhas does not mean as Solomon thinks. Whether written / unwritten Vedhas means "hidden things". Vedhic times so far detected by world guys is dependent on their literature namely persian,Egyptian and others. In a haste make up to date back their cultures they date back Vedhas also 5000 / 10000 /15000 years back. They tell one "Nondichakku" that Vedhas had oral tradition and so we can date back without considering their written timeline. Not all,some universities go on this hypothesis and myths
Quote:
Velliveethiar
Cheyyamozhikum Thiruvalluvar Mozhintha
Poiya Mozhikum Porul Ondre. Song 23, Thiruvalluva Malai.
"Cheyyamozhi" means natural language that is People's natural language. Cheyyaniram means 'eyarkai niram', Cheyyal means 'Thiru makal' (natural god)
Reader can note this in any tamil dictionary.
Hence Cheyyamozhi means people language. "Poiyamozhi" means
marai. Both words are "Eeru ketta ethirmarai peyarechcham" in tamil Grammar. Poiya means Poi (marai) mozhi Cheyya means cheithiyana,Vazhankappadukira -natural language both signifies negative aspect of words as per Grammar.
Hence 'marai and maraivatra' languages are same is the exact meaning.
These kind of words only helps solomon to claim Vedhic. But comparing other comtemporary happenings of history won't support this wishful thinking.
Solomon talks about tamil universities. The thinkers based on tamil are neglected in all universities because they think that all tamil based thoughts are against of Indian intergrity and this is the "INTENSION" backed among all universities.Former tamil university chairman Thiru Nedunchezhian now suffers a lot. Pavanar also suffered because he told that tamil is the ancient language. Now world scholars come to this. Forget about present tamil PhDs. and put all of them into dustbin.
Dr.Thaivanayakam research about Jesus theory in tamil culture is also accepted by these universities. You need not tell about Vedhic frauds accepted by them. Solomon "double tongue" is exibited by this.
Any research mind should question all the things meaningfully no matter how the scholar is famous. New thought shall come out from this. Valluvar specifies this in his "Epporull Yaar Yaar..... " At the sametime We need not undermine any scholar and take their research as basis and should continue our research further to exact conclusion. We should take Pavaanar's view also in this perspective.
We cannot expect this scientific temperament from "Vedha vakku" Vedhics :!:
TIRUVALLUVAR AND WHAT HE MEANS
Friends,
I Look Tamil Literature from Sangam Literature and look for its meanings from Kural only.
FSG posting here is totally meaningless and Unwarranted attacks because he doesnot know Sangam Literature and his completely ignorance is Proved Beyond Doubt, When FSG Read Arumarai as 6Marai, against actually it was with Idaina Ra, i.e., Unique or Special i.e., and God Given as per Tamil Sangam Literature Authors and that is his Level of Knowledge.
What is Vadasol in KURAL, and I Give PAVANAR :
I GIVE here waht Devaneyan has said:
Quote:
"Iyarsol Thirisol Thisaisol Vadasolen
anaithe seiul ittach Solle" -Tholkappiyam Solathi1
Merkuriya Iyarsol Thirisol Thisaisol ennum mundruda, Edaikalaga(Sangaha) Kalathil Puthithai Vanthu Valanghiyaoru sila Vada Sorkal Tamilil Kalntha Ayanmozhi endra vakayil vadasorkal endre Koorap pattana. Akkalathil tamilir Kalantha Ayanmozhi Vadamozhi Ondre. Immuraipadiy Ikkalathilum Tamilir Kalntha Angila sol, Portukesia sol, muthaliavarrai Avvam Mozhi peyalral Angilasol, Portukesiyasol enak kural vendume andri Thisai sorkal enak kooruthal koodathu.
Page 9,10-Thiravidathai
Tamil Only Movement Group went beyond all Truths and accused of meaningless things, which Archealogy and other Proofs have held us today. Every Layer added New Lies and Fsg goes on.
He has not given a Single Proof till date then what is NANMARAI in Tholkappiyam' Payiram, and Sangam Literature. Huge Discussions went on and it was held very clearly as VEDAS by PAVANAR and others. FSG keeps his tales and for that he back dated Sangam Lit. to 200CE etc., Friends Please read the complete thread for checking the number of Times He Ducked and twisted, all in Record.
Now NEDUNCHELIYAN - BrOUGHT another Point - Interpolations- in Kural - First Four 4 Athikarams as Later day insertions, this was first said by Thiru.Vi.Ka., when he was an Athiest, and later he became a Theist, but the old articles remained.
Friends, how to Verify Interpolations-
1.AutoGraph of Author
2. Comparting Earliest Manuscripts.
3. Comparing UraiAsiriyars
4. Internal Consistency.
The Kurals are dated by University Scholars to Ist Cen. CE, say 50CE (my view is it is 50BCE), The earliest manuscript goes to only 16th Cen, or later. Mr.Abdul Kalam recently wanted attempts to get the Oldest Manuscripts. And we do not have many Manuscripts to cross Check.
Uraiasiriars, if earliest had left them then it is possible, we don't have such.
Internal Consistency- PiraviPerungadal and Piravali in Kadavul Valthu is Repeated so many times and (FSG' bluff be forgetten),
that proves that VaLLUVAR HAS written all Kurals in First 4 Adigarams.
EluPirappu- We have some opinion in Bakthi Literature Period-Which says that Every Man- Starts as-1.Plant, 2. bird 3. waterborn 4. Insect-Urvana 5. Animal 6. Human 7.Visumbulor -I quote from Tirukural-iniya Eliya Urai by Mayiai Sivamuthu-Page20.
Certainly Valluvar did not mean this- Death is Like Sleep and Birth is like raise from Sleep, Please do not Pass Hatread words here. Every body has got their views, and I have kept to my views from day-1, and given appropriate Proofs, where as You have been Speculating without any proofs and NO Knoledge of SAngam Lit.
Please look Valluvar from Kural Glass and Not your Anti-Truth Views
MosesMohammedSolomon
Re: TIRUVALLUVAR AND WHAT HE MEANS
Quote:
FSG posting here is totally meaningless and Unwarranted attacks because he doesnot know Sangam Literature and his completely ignorance is Proved Beyond Doubt, When FSG Read Arumarai as 6Marai, against actually it was with Idaina Ra, i.e., Unique or Special i.e., and God Given as per Tamil Sangam Literature Authors and that is his Level of Knowledge.
Dear Vedhic Solomon, :!:
"Thakkar Thakavilar Avaravar Echchaththark Kaanapadum" is Valluvam. You can not tell this fellow knows this-that fellow knows this.
'Atakkum Amararul Uyikkum" :!: - Artificial pride-Vedhic solomons won't understand this.
You told Naanmarai. I may interpret shortly quoting Tholkappiam. For 'Arumarai' meaning go and visit my posting in 'Tamil is elder to Sankrit' thread.
I made query about Arumarai (idaiyina Ra / Vallina Ra) based on root words. For Example Aruvi & Aaru means same basically and actual meaning somewhat differs. When a river falls from mountain it is called Aruvi. When a river runs horizontally it is called Aaru. Aaru also means no. 6 and 'Vazhi'. All roots lies with 'Aru'.I have already talked about that in "Thinamum oru Vaarthai' thread.
Hence Ra,la in their various forms does not always follow different meaning. Even in poetry Vallina ra may turn into Mellina ra depending upon Ethukai / Monai used and this is allowed in poetry. You yourself eulosize 'literature giant' and you must know it.
My point here is You told 'Naan marai' then why Arumarai used ? Is their six marai since Naan is as 'Nanku' marai ? This is the basis of my question. You could have answered it differently. But you played with vallina / idaiyina type. Any tamil knowing fellow knows this difference and he need not be a literary giant. Infact you don't know the root words research or seems to be like that.
Quote:
"Iyarsol Thirisol Thisaisol Vadasolen
anaithe seiul ittach Solle" -Tholkappiyam Solathi1
Page 9,10-Thiravidathai- Paavanar
About Pavanar -My answer to this availble with my last post in this thread.
Quote:
Tamil Only Movement Group went beyond all Truths and accused of meaningless things, which Archealogy and other Proofs have held us today. Every Layer added New Lies and Fsg goes on.
Have you showed any archeological proof :?: . I showed archelogical proof of (1000 -500 BC) urns containing tamil script in Athichanallur. Can you show single proof for Vedhas like that :?:
Quote:
He has not given a Single Proof till date then what is NANMARAI in Tholkappiyam' Payiram,
I am in foreign country now and I am not able to refer tamil literature. Anyway I have found some online services.I will write about this shortly in 'Tamil is elder to Sanskrit' Thread. My time work load also should permit.
Quote:
Every body has got their views,
It seems your answer suits this as below.
"Now NEDUNCHELIYAN - BrOUGHT another Point - Interpolations- in Kural - First Four 4 Athikarams as Later day insertions, this was first said by Thiru.Vi.Ka., when he was an Athiest, and later he became a Theist, but the old articles remained."
Quote:
Friends, how to Verify Interpolations-
1. AutoGraph of Author
2. Comparting Earliest Manuscripts.
3. Comparing UraiAsiriyars
4. Internal Consistency.
Nothing above is available with Vedhaas :!: How do you date it to 1000 BCE :?: / 10000 BCE :?:
Quote:
goes to only 16th Cen, or later. Mr.Abdul Kalam recently wanted attempts to get the Oldest Manuscripts. And we do not have many ManuscriptThe earliest manuscript s to cross Check.
How many times you repeat this story :?:
Quote:
(FSG' bluff be forgetten),
I think you bluff something as below,
"Internal Consistency- PiraviPerungadal and Piravali in Kadavul Valthu is Repeated so many times and
that proves that VaLLUVAR HAS written all Kurals in First 4 Adigarams."
I quote from Tholkappiam for the meaning of 'Ezhu'
Since Tholkappiam is the oldest available literature in tamil for the word ‘EZHU’ for its clarity in meaning.
‘Kalaviyal -16
……………………………………..Aanku EZU Vakaiyan
Thokai Nilaipetrathu Enmanaar pulavar.
In this the meaning is Seven types.
Cheyyuliyal – 157
“EZHU nilathu EZHUNTHA Cheyyul Theriyan
Adi varai ellana Aaru ena Mozhipa”
Here we can observe that Ezhu is used two times to differentiate the meaning as first one is seven and the second one is verbial expression. If it has meaning as Solomon put forth that “Ezhumpothellam” two times it should not have been used.
Quote:
and I have kept to my views from day-1, and given appropriate Proofs, where as You have been Speculating without any proofs and NO Knowledge of SAngam Lit
You go on quoting solomon :!: but try to quote truths not bluffs :!:
f.s.gandhi