An issue

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Originally Posted by Cygnus

She loved her husband and wanted to have a baby with his genes. She would go any length to make that happen.

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Tell me Cygnus, for a woman does loving a person invariably mean having a baby from him? Aren't desire for a child and loving a person two different things? If a woman doesn't want to have a child from her lover/husband does it mean that her love is incomplete?? Honestly I donot know.
Your intellectual analysis of the issue is highly impressive. But how simple or how complex (complicated!!) life could be depends on how you approach life.
If you don't have a child, adopt ... simple. If you love the child it is yours.
Everyday we hear crimes committed by genetically related people against each other. We see cases of old parents left unattended by their genetic children. We see child abuse by the parents..yes even in US. So to eulogise desire for a child of ones own genes is hogwash.

Thanx, Cygnus for your explanation. That only recalls the very first response in this thread by Sudhama. As for healthy couples opting to adopt, don’t you see many exemplary hubbers around us? AND while recalling SB’s films why did you leave out the film where the deceased actress Jayalakshmi got her “adaimozi” “fadafat” to equalize aborting an illegal baby to an act like snapping the finger and the “wonderful” lady doctor who wanted a baby without the botheration of a husband and wedlock in “PaarthaalE paravasam”? There are a host of his films where he has wantonly, flagrantly, perniciously sullied, degraded everything that is grand, wonderful, unique, noble, enchanting, self-respectful in WOMANHOOD. Well, it would not be forgotten how mentioning SB is blowing off the lid for me, it is as hot as Etna, just a spark can blow it off!!!

Cygnus,

Wonderful analysis. I am really happy to see atleast one of the hubbers who support surrogacy like me! I somehow strongly endorse the view that there is no joy in the world as compared to having a bundle of joy which is entirely 'yours' in flesh and blood. After a tiresome gestation and painful delivery, the mother forgets them all by the first sight and first touch of the baby she had delivered. Is it not the same contentment one will cary to receive their 'own' child albeit it was carried all along by someone else? Even when the child grows, this situation is easy to explain to him/her and with today's scientific advancement, it can go well with the child that he/she was only carried by someone just because the mother was physically disabled to do so.

Purists may claim what is motherhood without undergoing the pain of labour but gestation and labour alone is not motherhood if the 'bearer' is well aware of the fact that the child is not hers but someone else's. The same detachment sets in in case of mothers carrying babies unwanted by them. The surrogate is educated about her role and the needy mother experiences a virtual bonding with the child that grows in someone's womb. The only thing that will hurt in the whole surrogacy is, it should not become a fully commercialised affair like buying apparels every year , with the woman renting her womb every 10 months.

On the question of the surrogate mother giving birth to a child with defects, no doubt, the child belongs only to the genetic parents and there is no question of dumping the child on the head of the surrogate. Law must come into helping the surrogate in this regard and the couple opting should be totally aware of the risks associated with it even before they agree to such option.

Now, for the outside sperm / ovum issue. If the woman can accept a child that is genetically her husband's plus someone else's, no doubt the other way around is also fully justified. The question of doing 'it' the natural way then, to avoid lab cost is totally absurd and obscene. Artificial insemination becomes adultery in that case with no morality attached to it. Why medical assistance at all, when you can achieve what you want by simply 'swapping' for a night?

Whether the sperm is from outside or the ovum, if it happens with the full knowledge and consent of both the wife and husband without any physical involvement, there is no crime being done to shout from the top of the roof. When PP madam raised the question of artificial fertilization with the mother's egg and a donor's sperm, quite expectedly, the male gender got wild at such an idea. It only reflects the maturity of the society we live in and sadly, even in this 21st century, it is male dominated.

Cygnus,

I think I have cleary mentioned my stand on this issue. My point of view was mainly on ethical and moral grounds . There may be exceptions but as long as I know in majority of the cases money and monetary needs play the major role in surrogacy and it is a well known fact that brokers and middlemen are involved in the process. I personally consider it a total disgrace to my own gender.

Anyways let me say a few words to the questions raised by you before winding up.

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All I see in this discussion is, we sit on a high horse and tell people to adopt children
but NOBODY answered my question of if one would adopt a child even without fertility issues?????

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I dont understand your point here. Do you think that only those who have resort to adoption or intend adopting can express their opinion here against surrogacy? Besides, here the discussion on surrogacy is based on fertility issue and in my humble opinion it is only appropriate to discuss adoption within the same context.

Anyways, in response to your question posed (in case you have missed my intial post here), I would like to mention about our friend Shekhar - who is one of those who is against the idea of surrugacy and has got a biological son and an adopted daughter -but he is humble enough not to mention it . As for others not providing an answer , it may be due to their humbleness or some other constraints. Or else as I said before , even they may have thought - that the question raised - is something out of context - as far as the issue discussed here is concerned. What would your opinion be - if I - with genuine intentions say - "yes I would adopt a child even without fertile issues" ? I'm sure everybody would think "nallA katha vudurA" :x I'm not complaining about it coz, that's the human nature and thats why many of us hardly express the good things that we do or intend doing.

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After all, compassion is supposed to spring out of willingness, NOT when cornered into a situation of no choice, right?

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Exactly !! and there are hundreds and thousands of people like Shekhar, my neighbour, a family friend of mine and many more around us who have got that willingness.

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I don’t know if such a thing exists in our society, but in North America, people often enlist themselves with the social service agencies and provide temporary homes for children who are abandoned or orphaned due to a variety of reasons.

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Yes it does exist in all parts of the world but in different ways with their available facilities and resources. The authorities of the ladies hostel where I was boarded a couple of years back run a home for orphan girls as well. There, each child is sponsored by various affordable people. Schooling, clothing, medical and all their other needs would be taken care of by these sponsors. Each child is maintained a separate bank account and the sponsors from various parts of the world ( they are all sri lankans, mostly migrated) transfer funds to the relevant account on a monthly or annual basis. In some cases after a certain period the child is taken for adoption by the respective sponsors.

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Why am I reminded of K Balachander's 'Sindhu-Bhairavi' and 'Kalki' here? :wink:

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May be to start another 'sindu mudithal' I think :wink: :lol: naan varalpA intha viLaiyaattukku :shock: PP madamOda kObam innum theerala. Still giving me a 'cold shoulder' by calling me 'somebody'. :P

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Originally Posted by shakthiprabha

One can also cosider living issueless. Its not a big deal after all..!

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Wow !! the point, all of us missed to mention !!

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Originally Posted by shekhar

for a woman does loving a person invariably mean having a baby from him? Aren't desire for a child and loving a person two different things? If a woman doesn't want to have a child from her lover/husband does it mean that her love is incomplete??

Everyday we hear crimes committed by genetically related people against each other. We see cases of old parents left unattended by their genetic children. We see child abuse by the parents..yes even in US. So to eulogise desire for a child of ones own genes is hogwash.

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I agree fully!!

Shekhar, see.. you cannot get rid of the hub ! :wink: :lol: glad this topic brought you back despite your deadline projects :D

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Originally Posted by scorpio

When PP madam raised the question of artificial fertilization with the mother's egg and a donor's sperm, quite expectedly, the male gender got wild at such an idea. It only reflects the maturity of the society we live in and sadly, even in this 21st century, it is male dominated.

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Hey scorpio!! the question was raised by me though I dont mind the credit being given to PP madam :D Anyways my views are same as yours on this. But that doesn't mean that I'm in favour of sperm insemintaion of an outsider. I strictly am against it as much as I'm against the idea of surrogate mother of any kind.
:)

Aiyo Roshan, vayasu aayiduchu, maradhi, mannichukonga!

hey paravailla.. I was just kidding :)

I agree with shekhar completely. Love is never incomplete because we dont get to see any flesh and blood of our loved ones.

Its all in our mind set which is tuned to thinking, 'LIFE OF A COUPLE, esp woman, is utter waste if its childless'.If we are able to think beyond this, THERE IS NO ISSUE AT ALL for any ISSUES or non-issues.

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Originally Posted by Cygnus

let’s think about this issue in a different light, shall we? The child is biologically your wife’s, no matter if the sperm came from some other man. [b]Shouldn’t it be EASIER to love this child than to love an adopted child, who is ENTIRELY some other set of parents’?

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I wish to disagree,Cygnus.I feel it would be easier to love an adopted child than living with the feeling that you allowed your wife's womb to carry another man's child.When I consider myself in that position,I feel I will never allow that and will feel a sort of aversion to my wife if it happens.It is hard to live with the feeling that she is carrying a 'forign element'.

I am quite a sentimental person and a bit selfish at that specially when it comes to my wife.May be there are men with a different perspective too. :)

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Originally Posted by blahblah

[I am quite a sentimental person and a bit selfish at that specially when it comes to my wife.May be there are men with a different perspective too. :)

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Blahblah,

I am sure if I ask my husband this question, he'll answer the same way as you did!

As Ratchasi said somewhere, MEN!