There we go again!Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesh79
:lol: This is getting endlessly awkward and insane :lol:
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There we go again!Quote:
Originally Posted by ganesh79
:lol: This is getting endlessly awkward and insane :lol:
Answer me this you Mr.Erudite. How can you trust a study from an agency that doesnt' have any clue what's going on Iraq. Is presenting studies the aim of UN or controlling the war? If you are unpartisan and bash India, why cite UN, which is the most inefficient of all? This is what I exactly termed as partisan attitude, in one of my earlier posts.
Linking the attitude of an agency on a war fought by independant nations to the effectiveness of the statistics it report is absurd.
In any journal/global conference/state sponsored forums UN statistics are highly respected and is infact considered the leading indicator.
Are you telling me you dont trust India is ranked 127 in HDI because of UN's non-intervention in Iraq War? How easy it is to call that indicator fake and say "Im Indian and My India is leading and not doing as bad as these UN folks make it out to be"! Please dont run away from the truth. Talk to any developmental economist and they will agree with the UNDP stats.
Guys
1. Pls do not "quote" the entire post when repsonding a particular point. The posts become ridiculously long and is visibly irritating. Everyone will read all posts, and most of the time would know what you are responding to.
2. Generally criticism of own kind (in this instance, country) is accepted, while criticism (non-positive) of another, is not. That is what Thiru was saying. You dont have to bash another to make yourself feel good.
3. Criticism of own kind should not be taken as bashing. It is just self-inspection. Improvement can only take place after introspection. Denial will not take one any where.
Some of you have refered to Malaysia in your posts.
Let me offer some food for thought.
1. Malaysia is much smaller than India and thus easier to manage. But you can't carry on forever with this thought. Who was it who said, show me one man who can be changed and I will change the entire nation. A country begins with the individual, then a family, a community, a village/town, a city, a state and finally a country.
2. Malaysia is all nice and lovely - from the outside.
Not many people know of the rot inside. Of how minorities are discriminated against, how who-you-know is more important than what-you-know. In fact, we are just a bubble waiting to burst.
3. India needs to be proud of its democracy. We dont have such independent press here. Everyone kowtows to the big boss - the ruling malay party. In fact, the government is supposedly made up of all races, when actually it is UMNO that throws pittance here and there for the non Malays. In fact for the non-Umno too.
4. Due to its heavily tipped policies, there is a severe brain-drain in Malaysia; the government is now attempting to bring them back - by dangling carrots.
5. Finally, the grass is always greener on the other side.
Maybe Shankar is sending a message in Anniyan. Maybe not. But remember that it is a story at the end of the day. And Anniyan is a mentally unhinged person - so quite impossible to justify his actions.
However the underlying message is: the difference should begin from YOU.
NOV,
An excellent post and true facts laid bare in a nutshell. I'm your neighbour :wink: , and I know exactly what you mean.
Having said that, the degree of democracy varies in just that-in degrees. True change can only come from within, and until then when the people of a country do not know how to handle freedom, the blame will always be put on some one else. Democracy or no democracy.
And that trait-of blaming others, is what Shankar has tried to portray in Anniyan.
Humans, when driven sufficiently, take on different personas, and in this particular case of multiple personalities, Shankar did a fairly decent job thro Vikram.
It was also refreshing to see the portrayal of various puraanams and the recommended punishments. That all religions have a common belief of good vs bad, and the bad will be punished if not here, then in the hereafter.
I dont think Anniyan was so much about patriotism per se, which "Indian" was, I think.
I'm wondering whether the message sent out from Indian reached the masses better, or whether Anniyan touched base better. It's not about box office collections I'm talking about.
The major disappointment was Sada. She reminded me of the woodeness of Trisha. And some one who can keep the likes of Nayanthara company in the department of how NOT to tie a sari! Other than that the cast was good and did a good job.
Dialogues were good-wish Shankar paid attention to the cast slipping up on the specific "dialect" they were speaking.
Songs-well..nice and peppy, dance floor type songs. Memorable-no, nothing stayed like say, Ra Ra (Chandramukhi).
Shoba
Two years ago, in some part of this planet earth outside India, some governing authority put nearly 300 IT pros in jail for unknown reasons and harrased them. What kind of arrogance is this? Whatever the mistake be, you cannot put a big group of nationals in jail, without a proper inquiry. Forget illegal immigrants. India is not even able to take action against border intruders without any criticism and hue and cry far from even mars. I dont' know why people who consult with UN to learn about statistics on India, forgot these issues? Human rights wing of UN sleeping? Of course, these issues offer no monetary gain to the west.
Half the world's proselytizers from the west are roaming free in India. They are the reason for the communal imbalance in India. Who questions them? They easily convert people and make them minorities and go back to their respective countries. But who takes care of those converted minorities? The Indian government. And, they will accept no less than the most special treatement. Quota for jobs, colleges, ministry; separate civil code; protection of their rights and what not. The entire India should work for them.
Singers and artists from our friendly neighbor are minting money here. I don't think even in the super-power there will ever be a minority president or vice-president. But in India? You may argue that it is part of the caste politics of Indian politicians. Most certainly you will. But atleast for political reasons minority enjoy in India. Elsewhere, the minorities don't even enjoy this politics driven status. But still India is being targetted for not showing respect to minorities, in several occasions by the foreign media.
These, along with few others, are some of the most serious issues that warrants action by the Indians and the Indian government. Let's worry about neat roads, good railways and strict traffic rules later!
Great posts people! Very educative and interesting.
NOV, I presume you are based in malaysia(from reading your post). I would like to know whathappened to the Prime Minister or the PM-to-be who was jailed with the charge of sodomy? I have studied Malaysian governance (or the lack thereof) while researching international policies. SOme of the things you mentioned are very true.
Ganesh79,
Interesting way to allude to me as the person aligned to statistics. I indeed am receptive to statistics but more on interpretation of statistics. I have learnt about the incident you mentioned and I do not condone any part of it. But I am doubtful whether the United Nations is responsible for such things when there were bigger issues to deal with this year with regards to UNPROFOR, oil-for-food scams and Security council debates. It is sad that such things hapen and India does not get the support it deserves.
About the religious conversion of minorities, it is a sensitive issue. I personally do not support it. One reason this is so easy to perform in India is because the minorities have nothing to lose as they have been ill-treated here and they easily buy the promises that are made to them by these "messengers". Caste system is still prevalent in our country not only legally but also through thought. The quota system though it sounds controversial is like the affirmative action in the US. India needs it but I am not very confident on the way it is implemented and the way the minorities abuse it.
You make it sound like the maximum problems are inflicted from outside and that is our primary focus-to-be. Whether I agree with this or not I certainly agree with the message in Anniyan that whatever we aspire to do and whatever we aim for we can do that while on the other side we can still follow the civic responsibility, respect for one another and good citizenry. These things are not hard and are easier to follow in our day-to-day lives. Shankar did not ask anyone to lobby for conceret roads or super highways in Anniyan. HE showed that maintaining regard for the country, society and its property alone goes a long way in helping our nation progress. If we can do this, then nobody including the UN or any outside state can stop pur local improvement. Improvement has to come from within and it has to come form every citizen in this country. We all can definitely change our country and improve our lives by just following our duty and sticking to discipline. This is what I got from Anniyan. I canot say whether it changed the movie goers, but it defnitely taught me something and I am willing to follow it! Therein lies an immediate victory to Shankar through Anniyan I must say!
but of course. I live here, don't I? My point is dont get over excited by the glossy brochures and beautiful picture being painted by the PR people. Reality can be some thing else.Quote:
Originally Posted by UnlimtedMeals
The Deputy PM, Anwar Ibrahim, has been freed. He is a shadow of his former self and hardly a threat to the government any more. In all his interviews (all overseas), he has been nothing but a bundle of contradictions.
As for Ganesh's point on the IT people who were arrested, paraded and disgraced, well it happened in Kuala Lumpur. It pained me to the core that the Indian government hardly reacted to it - after all it has given so many projects to Malaysian government bodies and buys a lot of edible oils from Malaysia. Surely it could have sent a strong signal, but it didnt and Malaysia issued a short apology and all matters came to rest.
ganesh&unlimited;
Reading your posts I get the feeling that both of you are trying to tell the same thing,it's only unlimited's dependence on UN's statistics which is bugging ganesh.
As I told in my earlier post there is no need to compare India with any other country or depend on statistics,keen observation of soceity will tell us where the corrections are required&which are the things which need to be encouraged.
Finally a point,If someone points out mistakes in our system, doesn't mean they are unpatriotic.Self evaluation is required from time to time,for an individual,family,soceity,state&country.In fact a person who understands mistakes&takes corrective action thereby contributing his/her bit towards the improvement of the country at large is more patriotic than a chest thumping individual who does just that¬hing else.(A general comment¬ aimed at any hubber :) )