won't in the sense "won't anymore" right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
Because if you meant "wouldn't have worked" then I don't think it is the case because their partnership gave some great songs.
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won't in the sense "won't anymore" right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kiru
Because if you meant "wouldn't have worked" then I don't think it is the case because their partnership gave some great songs.
Ofcourse, othukka vendiyadhu thaan.
Karuthu azhagu, adhuvum marabula karuthu solradhu migavum azhagu.
Aana inga prachanaye... Karuthey illanradhu thaan. I used to be an audience for a while in Kaviyarangam that my dad conducts every month. All the poets reciting there are big fans of marabu, but most of the songs recited there sounded lifeless to me, because they lacked the content. That kinda chased me away from those gatherings. Like one of my dad's friend quipped "nalla alaveduthu thachha chokka madhiri irukku.. kavidhai madhiri illa". So the content is more important than structure to me, of course content with proper structure is of different quality altogether.
And yeah, here the basic grouse is about lack of content... if it comes with a good musical framework, all the more welcome :)
Nice observation. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Lava
Wrote this in some other thread..
Naadhan en jeevanae - Kaadhal Oviyam. One of the best of Raja, SJ and Vairamuthu. Especially Janaki! The bass line is intriguing.
Meeting point of the genius of a lyricist & music director – last line in the first charaNam. ‘விழியாகி விடவா?’. Stunning
Ohh.. I didnt observe it.. the review was by some other person who apparently doesn't even understand Tamil completely (sinhalese)Quote:
Originally Posted by AravindMano
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...884739#1884739
And yeah, Kadhal Oviyam is certainly one of the best albums. I had Sangeedha jadhi mullai in my mind when the talk of mettuku paatu arose. Brilliant lyrics, and yet written to a tune first.
My 2p worth.
On one hand we have the poet, whose imagination can give us some great poetry. Lot of the poets of earlier era wrote the poems first and the MDs set their tunes. Other than the great poets down south there are lot of lovely poetry in old Hindi songs and in some songs you can clearly make out that the poet wrote first and the tune was set later. (Infact it is said that Khayyam and Sahir Ludhyanvi fell out after 'Kabhi Kabhi' as each felt his contribution was central to the success of the songs. If you hear 'Main Pal Do Pal Ka' song you can clearly make that the poem came first and the mettu later).
The argument against this would be that the poet would write in a meter that most suits him and what he feels suits the situation and thus constrain the musical structure that the MD can provide. To an extent you can observe this is old songs. I mean you will rarely find any old song which flows so tortuously as 'Thanga Changli Minnum Painkili' or 'Vizhiyil Kadai Ezhudum Neramidu'. That is because the poet cannot conceive such a musical structure. There were exceptions of course but by and large this would have been the case.
People like MSV, KVM were masters in setting songs for poetry. SPB infact says that KVM particularly was a master in this regard. Whatever verse was given to him, KVM would set it to tune and not demand any change from the lyricist. Salil Da and Raja are known to be people who insist on the tune first and if they hadn't, we would probably not got the gloriously complicated tunes these two masters were able to produce.
As Plum says, a good poet must be able to write in both the scenarios. The sad truth is that in Tamil, there is no one now who matches the quality of Vairamuthu. Similarly, the MD also has to give quality when asked to set tune to already available lyrics. Raja's tune for Bharathiyar's 'Nirpadhuve' is amazing, given the structure of that poem. Similarly, C Narayana Reddy, the famous Telugu lyricist, in an interview said that for the song, "Vatapatra Sayeeki' (Swathi Muthyam) Raja had composed a tune first but K Vishwanath and C Narayan Reddy wanted Raja to tune the lyrics which were already written by C Narayan Reddy and he came up with that magical tune which was sung superbly, as usual, by Susheela.
I share the prejudice. I suspect so does IR. Besides, Kiru's point on backseat driving is very valid. I feel the same way, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prabhu Ram
un kuthama, en kuthama, yaara naanum kutham solla - may not be great lyrics, but with that tune, IR's inflections, and the orchestration, I dont think there could have been a better set of aesthetics for that particular moment in the movie...
Also, the oft-quoted MSV-Kannadasan chemistry. PonnenbEn in particular. MSV never tires of quoting it, and when Sridhar was alive, nor was he. Here's to the 'lyricals' in HUB: andha tune-ku vera lines ezhudhunga paapOm...heck, VairamuthuvaiyE ezhudha solli paarkaNum...ennA thErudhunnu.
Since I am biased towards music as an art over poetry, I tend to ignore the banality of lyrics in IR songs - I suspect I am his target audience.
The lyric to some extent reflects the state of the language in the society, IMO. (To quote an earlier tfmpage post, the change from 'nalanthAna' to 'sugam thAna' to 'sowkkiyamA' - none of these had any IR effect BTW)
If someone says IR cannot do decent 'pAttukku mettu', one can only laugh at such ignorance. I'd ask them to listen to 'ninnai charaN adaindhEn'. Period.
It's a question of "what is required for the movie". Do they need a catchy tune that will go well with the orchestration and mesmerize people regardless of the words? Or do they need a very thought provoking poem with no stress on orchestration but just a decent melody? In other words, who is the team lead?
It's obvious that IR wanted to be 'eppavum nAn rAjA' and poets had to service him. We're in a take-it-or-leave-it situation :-)
app - no we are not saying IR cant do mettu for paattu. No way!
We are just saying that in his philosophy, and mine, probably influenced by him, literary quality of lyrics isnt as important as the impact. If his music can make the impact, then the lyrics merely need to be functional. I concur with that view. Not that he has stated that explicitly but I infer that.
While this works most of the time, a "kanavil dhinamum vandhu kaNNadippAL" is jarring.
In the context of "BGM padathukku thevaiya" raised by Prabhu Ram, literary quality of lyrics padathukku thevaiya is an even more relevant question. It doesnt hurt to not have great lyrics but I can quite understand the POV if someone says that enhanced literary quality of lyrics enhances the quality of the movie.
(also, saying that, this gives me better empathy for PR's stand viz-a-viz BGM)
While I totally agree with you that there are a ton of such "jarring" verses in IR songs, do you think the lyrical quality of songs by his contemporaries including MSV of late 70's / 80's (or next gen) is "mostly greater"? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plum
While IR was a "big influence" on the Thamizh society in the way they look at films in general and film music in particular, I think the lyrics were actually influenced by the "Thamizh society" in general (which was in turn influenced by IR to some extent on this aspect).
While MSV had one good 'vidiya vidiya solliththaruvEn' in a movie, didn't he complement that with two horrible 'vAdA en machchigaLA, vengAyA bajjikaLA' & 'pOkkirikkuppOkkiri rAjA'? Why only single out IR? Remember who tuned "my name is billA", which apart from having kuppai lyrics also glorified the name of a brutal child molester / killer?