The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

My Dear "Raghu"

// Thank you very much for your not so NICE words, I am very serious about this,.....I seriously started this topic on an INNOCENt thought, well if you have been offended by this, then I am terribly sorry, as that was never the intention.//

Once again I confirm my APPRECIATION for initiating this very Good Valuable topic... as a Separate thread

I reiterate that I am happy to note .... several people with Good knowledge are posting rich stuuf ... Quite-interesting by individual postings

I have never meant .. that I FEEL OFFENDED... Nor I offended others..

As one of the WELL-WISHERs towards the Successful continuation by making all concerned happy..

I commented only on the PERFORMANCE . AND NOT ON any PERSON.

So to say... the Present unpalatable TREND OF NON-COGENCY...

... Leaving every part of the Topic INCOMPLETE, being Left in the MIDWAY. .

... in spite of my repeated clarification... with UNFAILING. affection ... and Regard to all..

... I don't follow why you must feel upset by my Strightforward CRITICISM on the Unwelcome trend.... not only in the Readers' interest... but also others including you

//It will be imposible for me to start the mahabharath story from the begining to end,//

No Not that I mean.. But only COGENCY Without leaving any point taken-up INCOMPLETE

I request all my Friends here to reconsider my comments on the current Trend and try to make it duly purposeful by changing the Trend as you feel Proper and Better. Thanks

Duryodana’s FOUL- PLAY to KILL BHEEMA by Cheating.

Initially Krishna and Balarama were only the silent Spectators at the Battlefiled on the last day of war.... between Bheema and Duryodana with Gadhayudhas.

... until the Fight conformed to the Yudha- Dharma ... and...

Krishna did not interfere until the last moment... when Duryodana played a Cunning-Game.

On the persistent offensive onslaughts by Bheema.... Duryodana was becoming weaker.. since he could not face his Enemy's severe Blows... nor could counter effectively.

Then Duryodana declared ... “ Hae Bheema You know everybody has some part of the Body weakest than the rest of his Body. I will reveal the secret of my Weakest Spot of my Body... on which you can try to hit and defeat me .... And I challenge ... You cannot defeat me .. even then...

Whereas reciprocally you also must reveal your weakest Spot of your body... on which I will hit and defeat you... It is a challenge.. Can you accept my challenge and prove your might better than me?...

My weakest Spot in my Body is... my Chest .. ( IT WAS A LIE).. What about yours Bheema?

Bheema believed it ... and replied.... "OK I accept your challenge My weakest spot of my body is my Head (TRUE) Let us see... who is mightier... to withstand even by facing the hits at the weakest Spot of the body".

And immediately Bheema started hitting at the chest of Duryodana... believing his Enemy's words as true...

...but it could not make any impact because his whole body (Except Thighs)... was already FORTIFIED by Gandharis Spiritual-Look through her Naked-Eyes on him... just on the previous day.

Contrarily... Duryodana started hitting forcefully on Bheema”s Head... by frequent blows after blows... which could not be managed by Bheema...

He felt giddy .. since it was really his weakest part of his body... whereas Bheema's repeated hits on Duryodanas Chest were totally failing....

... and laughingly Duryodana stood Rock-like

All the Spectators could note Bheema getting weaker and weaker.

If left in the same trend.... within a few more minutes... Bheema would have collapsed... culminating in his death as well as Pandavas defeat....as innocent victim of Foul-play

But at that critical stage.... Krishna PATTED on his Thigh... and shouted...towards Bheema... “ Well-done Bheema... Go on”

... and repeatedly patted his own Thighs.. smilingly

Bheema was initially wonderstruck and confused... started thinking ..

..." What is it I have well-done?... Is Krishna mocking at me?’

Then in a few seconds he picked up Krishna's Clue of Patting his Thigh

.... Which reminded Bheema on his Vow... to hit at Duryodanas thighs

.. and that Blood will be applied on Draupathis Hair... a TOUGH-VOW

.... "Until then I will not drink water with my hands but only the water which sprinkles up, due to the Gadhayuda-blow on water-surface..."

Thus awaken by Krishna's Clue cum Reminder... Bheema managed to raise up himself with much difficulty... and hit a severe blow on his Enemy’s thighs which proved fatal

Thus making Duryodana’s FOUL-PLAY an Adharmic-attempt for fetching
a CHEAP-VICTORY through CHEATING.... by means of... ..

... Exploitation of .. the RIGHTEOUSNESS of Bheema.

Such a nefarious Intention... of wicked Duryodana... .was THWARTED. .

... by the Timely-intervention of Krishna.

Hi Raghu !

I heard a story often from my thatha patti !!

When Duryodhana wanted to fix an auspicious date for the war , Krishna goes to the river bank to perform "amavasya tharpan" ( sorry if thepronounciatoins are wrong). But the day was not Amavasya.

Duryodhana thinks that it is amavasya and fixed some date. But Suryan and Chandran got confused and came there to ask Krishna about it. Then krishna tells them that on Amavasya sun and moon will be together. And just they are together.. it is indeed Amavasya.

Is this story anywhere in Mahabharath ? Or just "paatti sonna kadhai" ?

I support HHWalrus and Blahblahst here.
.
Our Indian Epics/Puranas are no doubt among the greatest in the World. We all share this view.
.
But then, some chap comes running in, tries to appropriate them, and pollutes them with their funny views and ideology. The very intention is to encourage abuse and bad-blood...
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I would advise such people to leave our Hinduism and our holy Epics alone, and restrict themselves to their typical hate-filled ideological stuff...
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Let us not run down what each of us holds divine.

Eden,

Correction. Hehewalrus & blahblah are anti hindu.

If U post a topic supporting hindusim, U are pro RSS, fascist & communal, according to them.

For them, anti hindu is secular.

Friends
Let us keep this topic to discuss Mahabharatha.Thanks everyone for your understanding.

FOUL- PLAY by Duryodana... was DEFEATED.by Krishna ... (Continued).

"Why should you Krishna interfere.... and FAVOUR.. one side... It is NOT FAIR... So far you were NEUTRAL... Now you have become PARTIAL" .. said Balarama ... blaming Krishna.

"Yes... Even now I continue to be Neutral only... But I ask you one question on the RUDIMENTARY- PRINCIPLE in Life .....

....When somebody is trying to easily win over the other ..

... by means of CHEATING.... or telling UNTRUTH .. or .EXPLOITING the RIGHTEOUS persons .... .

...and such other WICKED-APPROACH... rendering INJUSTICE unfairly towards an INNOCENT ....

... Will You KEEP QUIET... just watching the Fun... as SILENT- WITNESSES... ?

... similar to the Great Dhrithrashtra, Bheeshma, Drona, Karna ... and such other persons considered to be of DIGNITY....

... Had SET A POOREST EXAMPLE ... in the Human-History... by allowing a SHAMEFUL INCIDENT...

... to openly derobe a Woman.. ESPECIALLY THE INNOCENT...Draupathi a respectable Queen ..in the Royal-assembly itself... which is the Court of Justice.

... and thus seriously defamed and insulted the Dignity of Throne committed to render due justice... to any common SUBJECT of the country....Not only Draupathi... Is it Not the Worst Crime asnd Shame?

... Under such crcumstances... while the due dignitaries of power in the high Chair... behave unfairly...

...Don't you have any Moral-duty to INERFERE .. correct the wrong path...?

I did only that ... RIGHT PATH... as per my Duty... as a NEUTRAL DIGNITY.... common for both.

... by correcting the False-message of Duryodana... and indicating the TRUTH...

... that the Fact is... his Weak-Spot is Not his Chest... but his THIGHS.

Had he not told that LIE ... intending a FOUL-PLAY... I might not have interfered at all.

.. So I conveyed the TRUTH... CORRECTING UNTRUTH of Duryodana...

... so as to NULLIFY the probobility of UNDUE Victory for adharma...

If I follow your Advice.. to keep quiet allowing the Wicked to act as they like...

... then nobody on Earth ... will believe .. God ... nor the Righteousness nor the...

Basic Life-Gospel: SATHYAM-AEVA JAYATHAE (Truth Only will TRIUMPH).

Sudhaama,

I've heard this before somewhere but want to confirm it..

As per rules of the war, a person should not attack the other person below the hips... when bheema hit dhuriyodhana on the thigh, that was supposed to be against the rules of the war... The reason that bheema hit dhuriyodhana on the thigh was because that was the area that dhuriyodhana covered with banana leaf (as per krishna's instructions) when gandhaari opened her eyes...

Also, did aswathama had to use the conch to signal end of the day's war for some reason? I know there was some trick involved in that one too...

Madhu, that was not some patti story.. its infact true.. krishna tricked sun and moon to meet to create amavasya, eventhough sahadev had given a different date for the same..

Thiru,
as per Amar Chitra katha, bheema broke Duryodhana's thigh since during the infamous game of dice, after Draupadi was sold, Duryodhana slapped his thigh indicating she sit on his lap having become a slave. A furious bheema recollected this during the war...
Thats what ACK said.

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Originally Posted by hehehewalrus

Thiru,
as per Amar Chitra katha, bheema broke Duryodhana's thigh since during the infamous game of dice, after Draupadi was sold, Duryodhana slapped his thigh indicating she sit on his lap having become a slave. A furious bheema recollected this during the war...
Thats what ACK said.

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How can you go with ACK , Tinkle & Gokulam :)

Thiru,
The south indian and north indian versions of indian epics have quite a few differences. As such ACK has been the best and most reliable. They have well researched narrations and in 85-89 ran a complete series on the Mahabharata running to close to a 100 issues.
Gokulam is incorrect, that I know :) Tinkle and ACK are both from India Book House, so contentwise they are the same.

"Thiru"

// Sudhaama... As per rules of the war, a person should not attack the other person below the hips... when bheema hit dhuriyodhana on the thigh, that was supposed to be against the rules of the war... The reason that bheema hit dhuriyodhana on the thigh was because that was the area that dhuriyodhana covered with banana leaf (as per krishna's instructions) when gandhaari opened her eyes..//.

There is a Yudhdha-sasthra... part of Raja-Dharma-Sasthra... which stipulates... varying YUGA-DHARMAS... varying from yuga to yuga...

For example Vanavasam in Ramayana 14 years... Mahabharatha 13 years.

In Thretha-Yuga... hitting at a NIRAAYUDHA-PAANI... was Unlawful...

But In Dwapara-yuga ... Kali-yuga... allowable.

Similarly... hitting below the hip was unlawful until Thretha-yuga End..

But subsequently during Dwapara yuga... it depends on the Vow taken at the time of completing his learning under the Guru...which too varies from one Guru to another... because the Guru... or the so called Teacher of Warfare... have been given the option. suiting to the situations.

When Arjuna... hesitates to hit at Karna... being a Niraayudhapani... attempting to manage to restore the stuck-up chariot...

( since his Charioter Salyan... had deserted and eloped... leaving Karna helpless)

Krishna urged Arjuna to attack Karna... irrespective of his armlessness... since the object of war itself is to make the Enemy... HELPLESS... and Accept the Defeat....

... Or else the Enemy to be eliniminated by Finishing him... as per Law of War.

Similarly... in case of Duryodana... on the instigation of Karna... Bheema patted on his Thigh and called Draupadi to sit on his lap... because she had become his Slave....

Then Bheema... became FEROCIOUS... on this Insult... took a vow.. that with bhis Gadhjayudha... he will hit on the same thigh... and kill him... until then ... will not drink water by hands... but only the sprinkled water caused by hitting on the water-surface... with the Gadhayudha..

Draupadi took a vow... that she will not tie her Hair... until.. she smears the blood from Duryodanas thigh (which was shown by Duryodana as her seat) on her hair..

Both these vows were fulfilled by Bheema... by hitting at Duryodanas thigh... and applying the blood on Draupathis Hair.

Knowing this possible Danger to her son... Gandhari... tries make him stronger by passing on her spiritual powers through her Eyes... but due to Krishna's trick.. Duryodana... violated his mother's instructions to stand before him naked, after his morning-bath...since he covered his Upper-Leg-regions with Banana-leaves... as per advice of Krishna...

Thus his Thighs... could not be fortified... and became VULNERABLE... to suit the Vows of Bheema and Draupathi... all because of the timely trick played by Krishna

Part of this story... although I had written in this thread... just yesterday... I have repeated here once again for your convenience.

Please go through that posting... which gives more details and justifying points... on the embarassing circumstances... due to theFOUL-GAME played by duryodana... an attempt to cheat and kill Bheema...was solved by TRUTHFUL means.

Stories vary from author to author.... so we should rely opon the Moola-paatam ... Mahabharatha by Vyasa... which only is authentic... based on which I have furnished the particulars here.

Thanks sudhaama for the clarification..
btw, I read vyaasar virundhu when I was young but my parents strictly told me that I shouldnt read it because not anyone can just read it...
Me and my sister didnt heed to their advise and started reading it... and we both suddenly started getting boils in our body all of a sudden and people started blaming our reading of vyasar virundhu for it... Though it seems crazy and funny now, we had to drop our efforts in reading the full book.. has anyone heard something like that?

Mr. Thiru,

"Vyasar-virundhu' by Rajaji has been republished... in the name ofMaha-bharatham by Rajaji.

He has correctly written strictly conforming to Vyasa... without any addition of his own Fictions... but true to the Original of Vyasa .. unlike some others . who have deviated ..from the Original ... at a few places.

So Vyasa Virundhu is wholly dependable... but it is only a brief version in a story-form... without the aspect of justifications.

Mahabharatham at Home?

There is a unfounded belief ... amongst Tamilians... that the Mahabharatha-upanyasam should not be conducted at Home... and if violated it will cause undue misunderstandings amongst brothers of that Family.

But Ramayana is not so... since auspicious for the Family... if Upanyasam conducted at Home.

But I have not heard from anybody in my life... about the Stipulation of

... BAN TO READ MAHABHARATHA by anybody at Home...

Only the Upanyasam is banned ... Not reading the Book... or discussing...

Your Illness has nothing to do with reading Vyasar Virundhu...

ILLNESS after .READING it.... Kaakkaa utkaara Pazham vizhundha Kadhai...

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Your Illness has nothing to do with reading Vyasar Virundhu...

ILLNESS after .READING it.... Kaakkaa utkaara Pazham vizhundha Kadhai...

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I know.. but when you are 10 years old, you dont have the say :)

In my Opinion ... Illustrated Indian-Epic-Stories ... aiming towards educating children ... are in some aspects APPRECIABLE... especially for their venture to enlighten the Budds of tender-stage... and as healthy-seeds.. on our Great Indian-Heritage...

... But at some places... their versions are far-deviating from the Originals

... as also in some respects ... TOTALLY WRONG AND MISLEADING...

Perhaps because they give more importance to the Subsidiary Literatures sprouted from the Original-Epics....

So to say ... they are based on Thulsidas Ramayana.... in case of Raamayana... in preference to Valmiki...

How can I say... some parts .... of Pictorised Children's stories... as WRONG .... and MISLEADING ?

.... [In this country America... these Children's Stories in English... especially... illustrated..... on Indian-Heritage... are VERY POPULAR... amongst Indians here...

And with my embaraasing expereience with my Grand-children.... who have grasped the contents verbatim... as it is in the books... are raising some WISE-QUESTIONS to me..... I find often placed in embarassing position ... Neither I am able to say... they are Wrong... Nor I am able to explain to them... in a convincing manner... logically... and perceptibly to Wisdom.]....

For example in Ramayana.. it says... that the King-Janaka ... sent calls to different countries... inviting the various Raja-kumaras

... to prove their best Challenge ... to TIE-UP THE CHORD... of SIVA-DHANUSU... a TOUGH-TASK...

.. on a STIFF BOW... So difficult and challenging on the Might of a Warrior.... even to BEND IT... just the Primary-process.... for the sake of tying its Chord.... and then hold it at the same stage with a single hand... that too... LEFT HAND... leaving the RIGHT-HAND FREE...enabling to Tie-up with the other end of the Bow....

Whereas the pictorial children story says... that the challenge was to BREAK THE SIVA-DHANUSU...

Will any King INVITE THE WARRIORS... to BREAK a Bow.. a Holy-weapon

... Especially... the BLESSED ONE ... received... from Lord Siva Himself?

Valmiki says the former... and further justifies... that Rama... proved His Might one step higher and beyond... the MINIMUM STIPULATION...of only ..JUST TYING UP THE CHORD...

Valmiki also justifies... why unusually and unconventionally... Janaka stipulated this Bow-Challenge?...

Because .. one day while Seetha-devi was playing the Ball-throw and Catch-play along with her Friends in the Garden...the Ball thrown by Seetha was so forceful... that within a few seconds... it reached INCREDIBLY too far... the very REMOTE... Aayudha-Godown .. through its window.... and beneath the Box of Siva-dhanusu....

...All the play-mates followed by Servant-MALE-MEMBERS...searched and found it hiding beneath the Bow-Box...

But none of them ... EVEN JOINTLY... could not lift or even just to move the Bow-Box ...

... Then Seetha said... what all of you the MALE MIGHTY WARRIORS... employed to protect we the ladies... Can't you even lift this Single Box...?

.. Saying thus... she CASUALLY LIFTED UP the Bow-Box just with her LEFT-HAND ... and Retrieved the Hiding-Play- Ball.

,,,Just at that moment... the King Janaka passing by at a distance... noticed all this Episode.. and got AMAZED to note such UNUSUAL AND INCREDIBLE VALOUR of... an AFTER-ALL A Weaker-Sex... LADY!!!..

Then he .. decided... to carve out a plan of... Judging-Test on Might and Valour... on the same Bow....

.. to select the APT MATCH ... of UNUSUAL MALE-MIGHT... to suit...

... for his Daughter Seetha...of Proven... UNUSUAL FEMALE-MIGHT.

Which one amongst these Two different versions are BETTER CONVINCING?....

Similarly...such UNREASONABLE... and MISLEADING VERSIONS...

...on.. Mahabharatha too... have spread in the Society... contrary to the Originals.

For examnple... I ask one Question ...on Mahabharatha...??????

While Yudhistra or the so-called Dharma-puthra... the eldest brother of Pandavas... were getting CHEATED by the onslaughts of several Wicked- tricks... especially during the Chess-game...

... Dharma innocently and ignorantly was YIELDING to all the NEFARIOUS MACHINATIONS... of his Enemy... in the Robe of so called ...Bothers

... and thus became a SCAPE-GOAT ... and pitiable VICTIM... not only himself but also his affectionate brothers... who honour their eldest brothers words as Veda-Vakku ...

... On such situations... what was the reaction of the brothers... ?

Was it CORRECT and JUSTIFIED... just to SUCCUMB... ignoring one's OWN- WISDOM?

Here Vyasa... and other Authors differ.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Whereas Amar-chithra-katha says... that that the challenge was to BREAK THE SIVA-DHANUSU...

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Same thing was shown in Ramanand sagar's Ramayan(Feb 1987).
Congrats to Arun Govil :D

thiru wrote

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btw, I read vyaasar virundhu when I was young but my parents strictly told me that I shouldnt read it because not anyone can just read it...

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It is your parents way of telling you to stay away from adults only stories. Considering the subject matter of Mahabaratha it definitely classifies as something only mature people can comprehend. In fact the stories are so tumultuous that even mature minds are not able to digest major portion of mahabharatha.

"jaiganes"

....Considering the subject matter of Mahabaratha it definitely classifies as something only mature people can comprehend. In fact the stories are so tumultuous that even mature minds are not able to digest major portion of mahabharatha.//

Yes.. that is the GREATNESS cum Mystery of Mahabharatha... giving adequate...

... Scope for HUMAN -WISDOM-APPLICATION... to understand the DIFFERENCE...

... Between the TRUTH and REALITY... in Life ... where we meet Beastly-Men... alongside Godly Human too.

... Indian-Epics are the Great Eternal Lessons for the Global-Humanity...

If Good-people ... do mistakes... it leads to BLUNDERS from others...
.. is the EXLUSIVE Message of Ramayana...

... where Nobody amongst the Main-characters were basically the BAD ...including Kaikeyi, Mandharai.. and even RAVANA..as also Dasaratha...

But all these people ... slipped a little out of the way at one stage... which lead to a big History and Purana...as Ramayana...

Even the Lord Rama... God... slipped...ONLY ONCE... which lead to worst consequence.... of capture of his Divine-wife...

Thus God himself shows to posterity... Oh my dear Children.. How others and I burnt our fingers... due to our mistakes which lead to subsequent Blunders and unnecessary sufferings for all...

... while at some other stages others and I have stood like Rock ... to establish .

..... the High-values of RIGHTEOUSNESS... and such other Rich Human principles...

... to make YOUR OWN LIFE MEANINGFUL... WORTHY...and SUCCESSFUL

Similarly... if Bad-people come to power... what will happen?... ..

... MAHABHARATHA.... in which Ramayana-Lessons are subtly INCLUSIVE.

And even with all the various sorts of Mights and Supports ... cunning-games ... Foul-plays...Invincible Greats by Dharmic-power coupled with Warrior- Talents ... all those cannot Win ...

And ... in such cases... God will DEFINITELY INTERFERE by coming as the Total-supporter to the Righteous section of Mankind...

... and that God will SELFLESSLY go to any extent to Protect the inerests of such Righteous people... establishing the Moral-Values... in Human Life.. as a Society... irrespective of His fetching ILL-FAME.

... Further showing that God will even accept the BLAMES...UNDUE CRITICISM... for the sake of Righteous people...

...and will even be preapred to become a SINNER BY RECEIVING the Sins of others.... and suffer for it unduly....

... just to save RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE... including Pandavas and Karna.(the Right-Man at the Wrong place)

"You my dear Children on Earth... better take the lessons".....God Says and Shows.

... as ETERNAL-LESSONS by action more than Words ... Divine Message through Mahabhaaratha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hehehewalrus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Whereas Amar-chithra-katha says... that that the challenge was to BREAK THE SIVA-DHANUSU...

---

Same thing was shown in Ramanand sagar's Ramayan(Feb 1987).
Congrats to Arun Govil :D

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HHW, Ramanad sagar's Ramayan was made in 1987 :shock: , what about his other epic 'Krishna' was that filmed in 1987 too, have you seen this.

Dear Sudhama sir,

Thanks for the clarification about Dhuriyodhana and bheema, please bare my mistakes, as I post everything based on Ramand Sagar's Krishna, Tamil Film Karna and last but not list books by 'His Divine Grace Sripala Bhakthivedananta Swami Prabhuda'.

Now that Dhuriyodhana & Bheema, Karna & Arjuna issues have been cleared, please answer some of this questions.

1) Who was Shishupala?

2) Why was Kripachrya not allowed to command the kaurava army, after Karna, why was Aswathama appointed as the commander?

3) Why didn't barberik(bheema's grandson, gadotkajah's son), take part in the war, but he was able to see the war through his divine eyes like Sanjaya :?

4) what was Karna's Father in law's name, did he take part in the battle?

thanks

Sudhama ji,

Please reply to my PM asap, thanks

I came across this online version of Mahabharatam. It's translated by a Kisari Mohan Ganguli.

The common English translations usually begin with Santanu (SECTION XCV) but this online version goes beyond that.

Mahabaratha

Do note that it is highly comprehensive.

A.Ratchasi,

thanks for the link.

Thanks to .Ms. Ratchasi for posting the useful INFORMATION for the Hubbers

"Raghu"

// (1) Who was Shishupala?... (2) Why was Kripachrya not allowed to command the kaurava army, after Karna, why was Aswathama appointed as the commander?.....(3) Why didn't barberik(bheema's grandson, gadotkajah's son), take part in the war, but he was able to see the war through his divine eyes like Sanjaya :? ....(4) what was Karna's Father in law's name, did he take part in the battle?//

Dear Mr. Raghu,... You know..... on every major Subject... similar to Mahabharatha.. carrying valuable and intricate mysterical Substance imbued or implicated... openly or subtly hidden... for anybody... there arise several Questions...

.... broadly to be classified... under the Captions.... WHAT-?.... WHY-??............HOW-???

"What"... part of Questions... may be known to many... but remembered sharply..

.. even on the insignificant part of the Subject by some like... Mr. Badri 9999999999999*... !!!...

.. And perhaps he may be able to answer if you ask him... any such Questions like.... "What is the Name of Nakula's Brother-in-law... and How many children he had... and What are their Names?..."... on which points... I am BLANK..

Alternatively.... You can try Online... as Ms. Ratchasi has quoted hereabove....But...as I have already told you... I don't pay much attention to such Miscallaneous aspects. The areas I am interested to convey, as also discuss with you all, are on...

... WHY-? and HOW-??...sections only... which approach alone can lead us towards the better side of the subject... more interesting containing the most purposeful substances.... worthy for Life.

... from this Greatest Moral-Epic on Truth Vs Reality in Life... alongside the Lessons from various challenges dramatised by multifaceted Characters.

//... Amar-chithra-katha says... that that the challenge was to BREAK THE SIVA-DHANUSU..//
//Same thing was shown in Ramanand sagar's Ramayan(Feb 1987).... Congrats to Arun Govil //

We have to remember that the Programme you are referring to, was in Hindi... mainly intended for North-Indians... for whom Sant Thulsidas is more important than Valmiki and Thulsidas Ramayana is deemed authentic and Greater than the Original-text... Valmiki Ramayana... We cannot blame or Criticise or under-estimate anybody on such a spirit... People are so dedicated to Thulsidas Ramayana... more than anything... Rather it is their Faith we have to HONOUR... being a Religious aspect.

So anybody cannot deviate from Thulsidas amongst such people ..and if violated... especially if it is in Hindi medium and even in any language... and pushed amongst North-Indians... such a story will have NO MARKET.. especially in the Hindi-belt.. Such is the People's high veneration to the Great Sant Thulsidas.

A lot more to say HIGHLY about Sant Thulsidas... I will say later at an appropriate place...

Almost all the Regional authors in other Languages... including Kamban in Tamil.. have deviated from the Original content of Valmiki.... suiting to their individual angle and outlook... perhaps.... compatible to the respective Regional peoples' unique Psychology.

As per the Original Texts Ramayana and Mahabharatha.... by Valmiki and Vyasa... Rama and Krishna are shown on both sides ...as God by Spirit on one side...as well as an ordinary Man by thoughts and weaknesses on the other side...

Whereas Kamban depicts Rama... as an EXEMPLARY ... IDEAL... HUMAN ... with nil-weaknesses...as well as Seetha... the MODEL IMMACULATE WOMAN... in a greater degree than the picturisation by Valmiki...

Similarly... Vyasa... depicts Krishna as an EMBODIMENT OF VIRTUES even under the worst Critical-moments... SELFLESSLY...

... while Villiputhoorar charactereises Krishna...as a Complex-character of Highest Divinity coupled with Most EMULATIVE- HUMAN to a greater degree than that of Vyasa.

In Literatures and Epics... such varying outlooks by different Authors commensurate with the fertility of their Thoughts and Imagination... are quite common ... and rich enough to enjoy the various sorts of Mosaic-beauties of Literature alongside such other parallel perceptions. relevent to Humanity.

//Now that Dhuriyodhana & Bheema, Karna & Arjuna issues have been cleared, please answer some of this questions.//

How do you say so... .even after noting my mention under Karna... as ...."TO CONTINUE"... And on Duryoodana too... a lot more

...and on Arjuna... the Great Siva-Bhaktha... well-graced by Him... in different forms... especially by granting Paasupadha-asthram... for which Arjuna could go to Siva-lokam... as well as accompany Krishna to Vaikuntam... To and fro.. an unimaginable previleges for Human-beings...

Oh ! ... I have not even started so far ... a lot lot lot to say on that ANOTHER Complex-character... Arjuna...Lessons for Human-Life

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Thanks to .Ms. Ratchasi for posting the useful INFORMATION for the Hubbers

"Raghu"

// (1) Who was Shishupala?... (2) Why was Kripachrya not allowed to command the kaurava army, after Karna, why was Aswathama appointed as the commander?.....(3) Why didn't barberik(bheema's grandson, gadotkajah's son), take part in the war, but he was able to see the war through his divine eyes like Sanjaya :? ....(4) what was Karna's Father in law's name, did he take part in the battle?//

Dear Mr. Raghu,... You know..... on every major Subject... similar to Mahabharatha.. carrying valuable and intricate mysterical Substance imbued or implicated... openly or subtly hidden... for anybody... there arise several Questions...

.... broadly to be classified... under the Captions.... WHAT-?.... WHY-??............HOW-???

"What"... part of Questions... may be known to many... but remembered sharply..

.. even on the insignificant part of the Subject by some like... Mr. Badri 9999999999999*... !!!...

.. And perhaps he may be able to answer if you ask him... any such Questions like.... "What is the Name of Nakula's Brother-in-law... and How many children he had... and What are their Names?..."... on which points... I am BLANK..

Alternatively.... You can try Online... as Ms. Ratchasi has quoted hereabove....But...as I have already told you... I don't pay much attention to such Miscallaneous aspects. The areas I am interested to convey, as also discuss with you all, are on...

... WHY-? and HOW-??...sections only... which approach alone can lead us towards the better side of the subject... more interesting containing the most purposeful substances.... worthy for Life.

... from this Greatest Moral-Epic on Truth Vs Reality in Life... alongside the Lessons from various challenges dramatised by multifaceted Characters.

//... Amar-chithra-katha says... that that the challenge was to BREAK THE SIVA-DHANUSU..//
//Same thing was shown in Ramanand sagar's Ramayan(Feb 1987).... Congrats to Arun Govil //

We have to remember that the Programme you are referring to, was in Hindi... mainly intended for North-Indians... for whom Sant Thulsidas is more important than Valmiki and Thulsidas Ramayana is deemed authentic and Greater than the Original-text... Valmiki Ramayana... We cannot blame or Criticise or under-estimate anybody on such a spirit... People are so dedicated to Thulsidas Ramayana... more than anything... Rather it is their Faith we have to HONOUR... being a Religious aspect.

So anybody cannot deviate from Thulsidas amongst such people ..and if violated... especially if it is in Hindi medium and even in any language... and pushed amongst North-Indians... such a story will have NO MARKET.. especially in the Hindi-belt.. Such is the People's high veneration to the Great Sant Thulsidas.

A lot more to say HIGHLY about Sant Thulsidas... I will say later at an appropriate place...

Almost all the Regional authors in other Languages... including Kamban in Tamil.. have deviated from the Original content of Valmiki.... suiting to their individual angle and outlook... perhaps.... compatible to the respective Regional peoples' unique Psychology.

As per the Original Texts Ramayana and Mahabharatha.... by Valmiki and Vyasa... Rama and Krishna are shown on both sides ...as God by Spirit on one side...as well as an ordinary Man by thoughts and weaknesses on the other side...

Whereas Kamban depicts Rama... as an EXEMPLARY ... IDEAL... HUMAN ... with nil-weaknesses...as well as Seetha... the MODEL IMMACULATE WOMAN... in a greater degree than the picturisation by Valmiki...

Similarly... Vyasa... depicts Krishna as an EMBODIMENT OF VIRTUES even under the worst Critical-moments... SELFLESSLY...

... while Villiputhoorar charactereises Krishna...as a Complex-character of Highest Divinity coupled with Most EMULATIVE- HUMAN to a greater degree than that of Vyasa.

In Literatures and Epics... such varying outlooks by different Authors commensurate with the fertility of their Thoughts and Imagination... are quite common ... and rich enough to enjoy the various sorts of Mosaic-beauties of Literature alongside such other parallel perceptions. relevent to Humanity.

//Now that Dhuriyodhana & Bheema, Karna & Arjuna issues have been cleared, please answer some of this questions.//

How do you say so... .even after noting my mention under Karna... as ...."TO CONTINUE"... And on Duryoodana too... a lot more

...and on Arjuna... the Great Siva-Bhaktha... well-graced by Him... in different forms... especially by granting Paasupadha-asthram... for which Arjuna could go to Siva-lokam... as well as accompany Krishna to Vaikuntam... To and fro.. an unimaginable previleges for Human-beings...

Oh ! ... I have not even started so far ... a lot lot lot to say on that ANOTHER Complex-character... Arjuna...Lessons for Human-Life

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Dear Sudhama sir,

Thanks for the post, please reply to my PM asap, many thanks

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Originally Posted by Raghu

1) Who was Shishupala?

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Raghu, Rukmini was to be wedded to Sisupala by her evil brother Rukmi, though the maiden herself was very much in love with Krishna. Krishna comes just in time and saves Rukmini from marrying Sisupala. Thus, the animosity between Sisupala and Krishna grew further as Sisupala was not fond of Krishna even before.

That's the primary reason why Sisupala insulted Krishna during Yudhisthira's Rajasuya when Krishna was chosen to grace the Agrapooja.

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Originally Posted by a.ratchasi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raghu

1) Who was Shishupala?

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Raghu, Rukmini was to be wedded to Sisupala by her evil brother Rukmi, though the maiden herself was very much in love with Krishna. Krishna comes just in time and saves Rukmini from marrying Sisupala. Thus, the animosity between Sisupala and Krishna grew further as Sisupala was not fond of Krishna even before.

That's the primary reason why Sisupala insulted Krishna during Yudhisthira's Rajasuya when Krishna was chosen to grace the Agrapooja.

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Thanks Ratchasi, I remember the Rukmani Suyamvaram now :D

EXCELLENT THREAD!!! Although I haven't participated much, I'm a vivid reader of this thread. And it's rememinded me of many facts about Mahabarath which I had forgotten lately. :thumbsup:

Thanx A.Ratchasi for the english version..will be sure to read up on it! :D

Can God be CURSED by anybody...?... And Can God DIE.. ?

Yes... both these mysteries have occurred in Mahabhaaratha... in case of Lord Krishna.. who was cursed by Gandhari... which had befallen on Him and His posterity innocently...

And this is the only Awathaara... where God Himself DIES during the Awathaara.. that too a cruel-death !!

How then Krishna deserves to be named as God or God's incarnation?

A Punyaathma or a Saint cannot be cursed and if cursed ... it will boomerang back on the Curser.... Then about God it is needless to say.. that it will definitely boomerang by the multifold degree.

But it has not... in case of Krishna .. Why?

Until Mahabhaaratha War... Krishna was immaculate... free from even the least extent of Sin.

Whereas... after Krishna received the Sins and Virtues of Karna...as Dhanam... Krishna became a Paavi (Sinner)... similar to any Ordinary man on Earth .

So Curse can reach an ordinary Man Sinner... easily...the dire consequence of which had to be unduly faced by Krishna... just because of His good intentions to save Karna from an indefinite stage in between Life and death on Earth....

But for Krishna's grant of Mukthi to Karna... he would have been rotting on Earth as a handicapped... Valetudinarean... with the support of a littlle quantum of Punya(Virtues) he had gained on one side...

...alongside the comparatively large amount of Sins on the other side...

Such grave sins since taken over by the God Krishna... He had to die out of Cruel punishment as an innocent victim for an inadvertent hit by a hunter

Thus God Krishna had sacrificed Himselves... just to save an INNOCENT AND IGNORANT Criminal Karna.. basically a Noble-Man.

Sudhaama Sir
Is not Krishna's death also a part of HIS divine play? When he felt the need to leave the earth, he shed this mortal body.As per the law of Karma, the hunter who shot the arrow aiming at Krishna's toe was Vaali in his previous birth.Rama killed Vaali by foul play and he too had to die likewise according to Law of Karma.

According to some versions of Ramayana, Rama too died by committing suicide by jumping into river Sarayu.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

Can God be CURSED by anybody...?... And Can God DIE.. ?

Yes... both these mysteries have occurred in Mahabhaaratha... in case of Lord Krishna.. who was cursed by Gandhari... which had befallen on Him and His posterity innocently...

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yes this happened after the war, when Ghandari, dhiritharatchar, kunti and lord Krishna visits the battle field, and ghandhari was very upset by seeing many perished bodies, and the weeping of all the widows, mothers,..etc.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

And this is the only Awathaara... where God Himself DIES during the Awathaara.. that too a cruel-death !!

How then Krishna deserves to be named as God or God's incarnation?

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yes, but GOD has taken an avatar as a human, his death proves that no body escapes from the vicious cycle of Karma

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

A Punyaathma or a Saint cannot be cursed and if cursed ... it will boomerang back on the Curser.... Then about God it is needless to say.. that it will definitely boomerang by the multifold degree.

But it has not... in case of Krishna .. Why?

Until Mahabhaaratha War... Krishna was immaculate... free from even the least extent of Sin.

Whereas... after Krishna received the Sins and Virtues of Karna...as Dhanam... Krishna became a Paavi (Sinner)... similar to any Ordinary man on Earth .

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Yes, one becomes a sinner, when one deprives the property of another

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Originally Posted by viggop

According to some versions of Ramayana, Rama too died by committing suicide by jumping into river Sarayu.

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Yes, I saw that bit Ramanad Saagar's Ramayan, but I did not know Rama Committed suicide :shock:

"viggop"

//....According to some versions of Ramayana, Rama too died by committing suicide by jumping into river Sarayu.//

Oh ... how painful it is to hear this sort of CHEAP look ... on the Divine-approach!!!.... Similar outlook may also give a like-meaning that Seetha jumped in Fire..... Twice.... to commit Suicide!!!"

According to Valmiki... Rama invited all the people who were with him... including the whole lot of Ayodhya people... asked them to PURIFY themselves... by getting the ablusions with the Punya-Nadhi Sarayu River...

... and Rama bestows all of them Mukthi / Moksha... the Liberation from further births....

Except Hanuman... who wants to preferably SERVE in Earth... continuing his duties for the Devotees for EVER...

And Dasaratha... deemed UNFIT at that stage... for Moksha... but only SWARGA..

... followed by subsequent Rebirth on Earth... to clear off his Karmas. during Rama-Awathaara.

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

"viggop"

//....According to some versions of Ramayana, Rama too died by committing suicide by jumping into river Sarayu.//

Oh ... how painful it is to hear this sort of CHEAP look ... on the Divine-approach!!!.... Similar outlook may also give a like-meaning that Seetha jumped in Fire..... Twice.... to commit Suicide!!!"

According to Valmiki... Rama invited all the people who were with him... including the whole lot of Ayodhya people... asked them to PURIFY themselves... by getting the ablusions with the Punya-Nadhi Sarayu River...

... and Rama bestows all of them Mukthi / Moksha... the Liberation from further births....

Except Hanuman... who wants to preferably SERVE in Earth... continuing his duties for the Devotees for EVER...

And Dasaratha... deemed UNFIT at that stage... for Moksha... but only SWARGA..

... followed by subsequent Rebirth on Earth... to clear off his Karmas. during Rama-Awathaara.

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Yes, sudhama sir is correct, viggop, the whole of ayodhya went along with Lord Rama.

Sudhama sir, I am asking you this many times,please reply to my PM regarding bhramins, Your message was not intended for me, but some one else, but accidently, you have sent it to me, for which I have replied, so please kindly reply back, thank you.

Thanks Sudhaama for this clarification. Sorry if I had pained you by my meagre knowledge and false interpretation of the story.

Is .Sarayu-River. of such a SANCTITY to get PURIFIED from ALL Sins?

For this Question our Acharyas render a beautiful reply. Worthy for Human-Life.

If we want to get milk from the Cow we can get it ONLY FROM ITS TEATS. And Nowhere else even though the Milk is the Transformation of the Cow’s Blood spread over its whole body.

Similarly even though God’s every part of His Body is Holy for us we can get His Grace ONLY FROM HIS HOLY-FEET.

Krishna says in Bhagawad Geetha

Sarva-dharmaan parithyajya …“MAAM-YAEKAM SARANHAM” vraja
Aham thvaa Sarva-Paapaebhyoa Moksha ishyaami MAA- SUCHAHA.

to mean “ When you are placed in such a GRAVE SITUATION unable to decide what to do LEAVE IT TO ME by Surrendering at my FEET. I will save you from ALL YOUR SINS and also ..Liberate. DO NOT WORRY .””

… A High Sense of Hope and Assurance… by God to Humanity.

Same sense applies here in case of Rama who took all his family –members as also the Ayodhya People along with Him to Sarayu-River…. by Leading them

… Rama FIRST walked into the Sarayau-River… then… STANDING WITHIN Knee-deep water . addressed all His followers

… All of you Come Now… take BATH in this Punya-Nadhi which will purify you free from all Sins thus Qualifying you to attain Mukthi / Moksha following me thereto.

How could He say so?... Because Rama was standing on the River-bed.. His holy-Feet IMMERSED in Water

Because of contact of His Feet with the water while the people concurrently take bath His Grace reaches them to purify free of Sins.

Thus all the people could get QUALIFIED to accompany Rama to His Abode Vaikuntam.

The Secret behind “Mukthi” Liberation from SINS and Cycle of BIRTH or..

while under. UNSURMOUNTABLE DIFFICULTIES in Human-Life.

Sudhaama,

In mahabharatha there is a sequence when Hanuman meets Bheema.. Can you elaborate on the significance of this meeting? Also, I read somewhere that Hanuman and bheema were almost like brothers (hanuman was born to vayu & bheema was born by the grace of vayu)...

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Originally Posted by Thiru

Sudhaama,

In mahabharatha there is a sequence when Hanuman meets Bheema.. Can you elaborate on the significance of this meeting? Also, I read somewhere that Hanuman and bheema were almost like brothers (hanuman was born to vayu & bheema was born by the grace of vayu)...

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Yes, Lord Krishna wanted get rid of bheema's ego, so during the Pandavas's vanavasa,
he resquests Hanuman, to take an avatar as a very old & weak monkey, so hanuman ji did
and was sitting , under a tree, bheema came in contact with him, and he had to cross hanuman ji,
bheema full of ego, starting saying how greater warrior he was and this old monkey does not know him and respect him,
all hanuman ji said was, I am an oldand weak monkey, I am unable to get up, please move my tail and go pass me, bheema thougt that a greatest warrior like him was being insulted by an old monkey.
so he got angry and tried to move the Old monkey's tail and he could not even move it at all, he realsied that this monkey is indded a mahaatma, and appologises for his sin and hanuman ji shows his true form and blesses bheema.