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"Anyway, I think we should not get too serious about this and move on. We can just hope that they (all the artists) realise their mistakes and dont repeat them."
...at least these `mistakes' prove that the concert was not a fake with CD being played and everybody `lip-sync-ing' or `acting as though they were playing instruments':-)
:!: ... :?: .... :!:Quote:
Originally Posted by app_engine
>>>>>
Hariharans actions also may be because of that reason.
<<<<<
Nah...He tries to show off, and its quite obvious.
Shankar,
You hit the bull's eye.
Hariharan was not sincere on the stage that day ! People come to these concerts to hear the songs in the original form but sung live. Not to hear the singer's own versions or damages !
So you will destroy the song to show that you are really singing, not acting ?? Rubbish reasons :)
SPB very well knows that IR would not like these things and behaved himself that day.
Well said Shankar and raja-fan,
HH did not impress the audience as a great singer in the live concert.
We all have heard and enjoyed the original songs in the movie and on the CD and it is natural for us to expect the same version on the stage too.
But, several singers have told me that as singers, they had to restrain themselves with the given version conceived by the MD at the recording, but as professionals, they do have their own version , given their musical talents, improvising on the original and many such singers choose and prefer to sing 'their' version at stage cocerts.
Sometmes, it clicks and sometimes may not!
More over, it is absolutely impossible to reproduce the original flavour on stage, given the various constraints, according to them.
I think what HH did was also similar to that and I don't blame him for that. He is entitled to that.
After all, if you want the original version, one can always listen to the CD!
"But, several singers have told me that as singers, they had to restrain themselves with the given version conceived by the MD at the recording"
More so, in the case of IR. SPB has mentioned it a few times.
// I watched the first part last week and will have to watch it again today to determine if it was a goof up or another imaginary invention. //
i hope you have had enough opportunities the past two days to watch it...and since you have not posted anything on this topic i assume you did figure out that HH goofed up...i understand if your ego does not permit you from accepting so in this forum...
//I dont remember HH and Saadhana making any embarassing mistakes like the one Shreya did. //
how does it it matter if it is embarassing or not...and whether you remember it or not doesnt really matter either...HH is far more experienced than Shreya, he sung songs which he has recorded before for IR...and how can he not know when to start singing his lines...i hope you are not giving excuses for HH's goofup just like i did for shreya's :-))...
//As for rating or determining goofs, I dont have to do it, the audience and IR did it in the show itself.//
well i was just pointing out what you did...i.e. rate the goofups in terms of blatancy...and the whole thing is a sliding scale...i dont really care about what IR or the audience think because you and me are the ones discussing this...BTW most of the audience here in this forum have expressed their disappoval of HH's performance in the concert in general, if at all it means anything...
//Also your earlier claim for HH being incompetent were based on his improvs which was clearly your preference and nothing to do with any singing goofups//
oh yes...i still think his improvs were incompetent...the goof ups just embellish the incompetence...
Thops, since you were missing in action here the past 2 days after my post, I did'nt reply further. But before you jump to any conclusions:
I did watch the programme again right now and IR clearly signals to HH to start singing at that point. HH starts off singing softly and then again sings the same words louder without even looking at IR. Clearly not any goofup on his part. If he had goofed he would have started singing loudly straightaway and wouldhave had to repeat it again. If you think that was a goofup you would have to blame IR the conductor, not HH.
"i hope you are not giving excuses for HH's goofup just like i did for shreya's "
definitely not, most of your allegations are imaginary, although I do agree that you are trying to hard to find excuses for Shreya. That you have agreed to doing it openly doesnt change anything.
".i dont really care about what IR or the audience think"
I do care, since we dont seem to agree, IR can be the standard of refernce here. The composer had to issue almost a public apology on Shreya's behalf and ask for the audience's forgiveness while the singer didnt even acknowledge her goof almost brushing it off aside playfully.
"well i was just pointing out what you did...i.e. rate the goofups in terms of blatancy...and the whole thing is a sliding scale"
thats fine, I wont feel bad for rating. After all evaluation is relative. If HH was incompetent because of his improvs(which you didnt like) then IR shouldnt even have been on the stage since he had one shruthi loss after another. Yet you would argue that his voice had "character" and what not. Even SPB wasnt flawless. Clearly off atleast in a couple of places.
"BTW most of the audience here in this forum have expressed their disappoval of HH's performance"
you dont care how what the entire audience reacted in that stadium, but you care about the opinions of 2 or 3 people here? funny.
"oh yes...i still think his improvs were incompetent"
keep thinking,that doesnt mean anything.It could probably mean your incompetence, as a listener :-)
// Clearly not any goofup on his part. If he had goofed he would have started singing loudly straightaway and wouldhave had to repeat it again. If you think that was a goofup you would have to blame IR the conductor, not HH. //
now you are saying IR is responsible for HH's screw up...why not just blame it on GOD...i thought you were the one who said one cannot give excuses for screwing up...
//keep thinking,that doesnt mean anything.It could probably mean your incompetence, as a listener//
appada...i was waiting for this...a very convenient exit strategy...nice try again...
"now you are saying IR is responsible for HH's screw up"
I didnt say that HH screwed up in the first place. I said IF you think that was a goof up then he was just following IR's hand signals. Lot of things go on stage. Many times the musicians themselves were interrupted or had to re-start following IR's hand singnals. does that mean the entire string section is incompetent?
"appada...i was waiting for this...a very convenient exit strategy...nice try again.."
exit strategy?!! what are you talking about? :-) you cant differentiate an improv from a goofup. even other DFers here who didnt like HH's improvs just mention that they dont like it, thats all. They never go ahead and call HH incompetent for his improvs. Its a matter of taste.
Incompetence is when you make obvious mistakes, like when you cant even read what you yourself have written on paper, thrice. Then, its not a matter of taste anymore.
Anyways, since you have yourself agreed earlier that u were just trying to find excuses for Shreya's goofup, we'll stop it here, because you seem to have run out of excuses.
looks like you are back on the hwy...next exit is after 1 mile...at the speed you are going it is going to take forever...
Shall we call a 'naattaamai' and ask him to maathify his theerpu? You guys are going hammer and tongs at each other..!!! :-)
I guess you never even made it to the highway in the first place, to make that assessment :-)
kingvj, neenge forumukku pudhusaa...this is probably the mildest of fights happening in forumhub...but probably the first shreya vs hari"the incompetent"haran...
vijayr...enjoy the ride...
kingvj, inga theerpukku'dhan sandaiye....adhukku appuram maathi vera sollanuma :) As thops asks, are you new to this forum?
BTW, I completely missed yesterday's (13th) installment of IR's concert on Jaya TV. The only glimpse that I got was when IR was saying something (my house was full of people y'day, so audio was not clear) to HH (about a raga???) and HH responded with an alaap. It was good & I liked it. I have not heard it before. This was just before the instrument piece (dham...dham..dham...(Olangal)). I was able to listen to most of this instrumental piece aswell. But there was lot of noise in my house, so I could not enjoy it that well.
Any reports on yesterday's installment? Was it the last one?
thanks,
Krishnan
Hi Krishnan, yes that was the last part of the instalment. The "3 note piece" was a clear winner among y'day's goodies and which deservedly bagged thunderous applause.
Especially the charanam of this piece was a pleasant surprise with a great flow.
HH's "kaapi" raga Hindusthani alaap b4 "thumbi vaa" was apt. I would have liked "thumbi vaa" in its original without the "dham dham"s . MadhuBalakrishnan sounded quite uneasy in KJY's songs. Last but not the least, Shivamani rocked with his rythms gymnastics providing the fitting finale.
On this whole HH fiasco, I guess it is just *taste*. To the classically inclined, there could have been nothing wrong with his performance. He didn't lose key, did nothing that can be classified as 'incompetent'.
However, to anyone who sees these songs just as *film music*(and therefore linked to certain emotions and situations), HH was bound to be jarring. For example, his improvisations on "Ennai Thaalatta" made it sound as if he is making fun of someone (the twist on varuvaalo was less like yearning and more like "aiye!inna vanduduvala!Somma gamnu kida!idhaiyellam pattu padihcunu keeriyae" kind of emotion. Ofcourse, this sort of thing cannot be articulated as easily as a loss of key, loss of tempo or inaccurate pronounciation.Which is why people are finding it difficult to refute vijay.
IR, as vijay said, was noticeably off key and lost tempo, shruthi and what not right through the concert at various places. But guess what? Who cares?!!! Except classical purists like vijay. (vijay, hope you dont take it as a slur -I mean it as a compliment!). We have to accomodate that point of view as well because hey its music, finally.It will be judged on its faithfulness to the classical form, as well.(As vijay said, in this concert, IR's strong point of emoting beautifully was also not really visible)
In the context of this concert, IR's mistakes didnt jar on me. It was just enough that he was performing and enjoying it himself(infact, I had actually believed that this concert wouldnt really help him and posted that view here but it changed after seeing the concert - if nothing else, IR must have taken back a positive feeling that people will appreciate his innovations even in TN - I just hope it reflects in his creative process) A vast majority fo the fans were enjoying as well so no regrets, really from anyone's POV.
Dear All,
Yesterday I saw a program called 'Andrum Indrum Endrum' by Dr.IR on Jeya TV, has anyone seen it?
It featured Greatest Legendary Singers like Dr.SPB, KS.Chitra and included other singers like P.Jeyachandran, Hariharan, Mano, Vijay Yesudas, Swarnalatha, Shreya G, Sadhana Sargam, Bhavatharani, etc
The opening song was by Dr.IR by him self, guess what the song was, 'Janani Janani' by Dr.IR, man ppl cried of enjoyment, me too, It sent Shivers down my spinal cord, cha I wish I was there!
Parthipan was conducting the show, as soon as he said, 'I call Mr.S.P.Balasubhramanium', before he even finished , the crowd were screaming out loud, thunderous applause, whistles, etc etc, it went on for abt 1-2 mins, it was ONLY Dr.IR and DR.SPB who recieved such welcome, SPB sang amazing songs like 'Mantram vantha thendraluku' , 'Pothi vaicha maligai mottu', 'Sundari kannal', etc, SPB and IR huged each other with great affection, man what a treat for the ears.
KSC sang ever green song, Yethetho enam from Punahai mannan, then PJ sang awsome number like 'Raasathi unnai', and then Mano sang 'Shenbahame shenbhame', man I Mano was a terrible choice for this, really ! then Hari sang songs like 'Enai thaalata varuvala', etc etc
Has any one seen it, if so post ur views
rajdes, theerpu solla enna avasaramo? any kickbacks ? :)
Losing shruthi is a binary factor , whether 'yes' or 'no' and I have already registered my take on HH .It was just not his day . IR's singing is well known and nothing new. He pretended to concentrate on conducting the orchestra to cover up his pitfalls.
I really missed some of the golden female voices esp SJ/VJ/PS/KJY [curse the ageing]. Wanted to have more of SPB [who doesn't want to?]
RVU recounted an interesting incident with IR just before the show. IR asked RVU the reason for his crestfallen look outside the recording theatre just before a song recording . The orchestra, singers etc were all ready to commence the job. RVU collected all his courage and dared tell IR that he was unhappy with his tune as he felt it did not fit into the situation perfectly.IR instantly shot up with anger as to why RVU had to point this out at the last moment after the score sheets were distributed to the orchestra and they were getting ready for the "take". Then after an afterthought, IR asked RVU to again narrate the situation. IR listened intently and composed the song in 20 minutes . RVU was happy with the song and got it recorded immediately. Thus was born the evergreen "muthu mani maalai" from ChinnaKounder
thumburu :-).
Obviously, whatever I post is my opinion. I dont think I have ever argued that "rabbit I caught has 3 legs" here. Yeah, "here" means tfmpage because I have done that elsewhere in my life :-)
Kickbacks? Hmm...nadathungappa - I have no love lost with vijay as you can see in other threads nor do I have any hate lost with vijay(please vijay note:-)). I just post my opinions and in this case, I think both of you are right in your own ways - just trying to point out the other side to both of you - yeah, this is my failing or strength - I always try to empathise with everyone's point of view and can see that truth is infact multi-layered - the only thing we can seek is to try and get enough points of view so that we can see as large a picture as possible :-). .( Note the "try to" and please refrain from pointing out some post of mine where I failed in doing this :-))
Again, for all I know, vijay may come up with some other explanation for his opinion
For the record, thumburu, I agree with you that it wasnt HH's day - he made some attempts to improvise and enhance the show but he failed IMO. I think the reactions here in this thread echo that. HH's failures need not be linked to Shreya's mistakes - which the crowd did disapprove of clearly. That doesnt mean that the crowd approved HH overwhelmingly - idhu romba obvious so I dont think anyone is disputing this fact.
Raghu panchayathukku romba late-a vandhutaaru :)
This is definitely a first for tfmpage, debating over a concert performance. On the tfmpage forum, anything's possible :)
rajdes, I had mentioned in one of my earlier posts that I am not a big fan of HH's improvs myself(but that doesnt make him incompetent like you said). Its a matter of taste and thats what I was trying to tell Thops earlier, whereas Shreya's mistake(not once, but thrice) was'nt a matter of taste.
Finally happened to watch the 2 parts from archieves and third part live from Jaya TV
( thro' NUMTV)
What can I say,
I wish I was in Chennai during the concert,
God make Mottai have a concert here in US keep him and us alive till it happens
"Sundari Kannal" (oru) " song was enough for me worth entire NUMTV subscription.
SPB, Chitra were the best, Shreya was not bad except for sodappifying the "theduthey" in "Kaatril endhan" song.
Personally I like her voice, the 3 in one telugu version was very nice too by Shreya, I was hoping SPB to join her and sing the Telugu version.
Hariharan, stole more songs, unfortunately , I should say, I never liked his improvs anyway on the stage, atleast was happy that he did less of this than what I saw him do in ARR concerts. Only good thing about HH was the Kaapi aalap before the Olangal orchestration was better than the aalap we hear by IR in the Italy Concert CD.
Karthik and Thipu did well in their respective songs, IR looked like he was constraining Thipu during " Unnai vida" song
Nothing much to tell about Bhava as usual,
Orchestra was great in pretty much every song , mind boggling in "Sendhoora Poove" especially since IR agian made them do it few times ( wished this song in entireity, but since it was Bhava who sang , was happy it ended in the middle)
Arunmozhi was the champion, just fantastic in every song he played with umpteen number of flutes he used
I don't know if IR was pretending to conduct or pretending to cover up, knowing his style , probably he was micromanaging most of the times ( either because that's how is or he wanted to show how he is in a live concert)
SPB could have sung the telugu version of "Oh Priya priya" as opposed to Mano's tamil super dud version ( I started hating Mano after his massacre of this song in Tamil version)
My personal list of songs which I always wanted in my imaginary IR concert ,
1. Poomaalaiye thol sera vaa.... just for the mere orchestration and on the same note I am not sure how good a justice IR might have done with his live rendition)
2. Ilaiya nila ......why ....why and why edho lifetime le oru murai idhu maadhiri live concert aagumpodhu , why IR didn't have SPB sing this live
3. Any one song from "Panneer Pushpangal" ( except the vengaya saamabarum..obviously), preferably "Poondhaliraada...)
many more in the list, but these three gems would have been terrific,
Some non tamil songs could have been good too
I wish more elder/senior singers like PS, SJ,VJ, and MV were there to sing atleast 1 best song of each of them... (yes in my dream only)
Shivmani was good as usual, for some reasons, Mottaiy was kind of looking uneasy at the end trying to either tell him to stop or something and SP and group just started singing abruptly "isai thaan engal Vaazkai" ( that was my perception, I could be wrong)
As usual, Bharathiraja made his usual speech to teh extent people are getting annoyed.
kamal's speech was OK, It was just unbelievable how IR "cycle gap le" tried to clarify Kamal's statement right immediately about having an exclusive Live concert from Kamal - IR combo films with kamal's singing.
Haa.... Haa.. now comes the best part as how many celebrities were proud to make their heart felt love, addiction, and what not to Mottaiy's music from Vaali to G Thyagarajan ( it was really funny how G Thyagarajan was almost pleading them literally to sing "kannae Kalaimaane" song from their home production "Moonram Pirai").
Suhasini went to the extent of telling, how proud she is in being a Tamilachi, just because IR happens to be Tamilian....ohooo....call it Jalra what ever it is and yes keep it comin.....
Prabhudas
vijayr, I understood your POV clearly yesterday itself. As I said, I am just pointing out to you that from another angle, the angle I outlined, HH could be perceived to have been incompetent because his improv.'s destroyed the soul of the song. It just didnt fit in with the emotions of the song. Are you saying that , in your opinion,HH wasnt incompetent from that angle as well? (ie) do you believe that HH's rendition did complete justice to the songs' emotion and situation?
On an unconnected note, one song I hated purely because of HH was "Uyire" from Bombay. Somehow, it just didnt gel with me and the problem was that I liked the song for all other reasons :-)
More than in Unnai Vida, IR was restraining Karthik in the rendition of one song( I dont remember which) that Karthik sang along with YSR. YSR was pathetic and I think IR realised that and was trying to rein in Karthik just so that YSR's incompetence is not thoroughly exposed. That it was clearly exposed is another story.
Another thing I forgot to mention earlier was that "KR and YSR suck as singers", even as chorus singers, as was evident from their chorus for Janani Janani.
Absolutely! Those and a few more, but i guess he can't make everyone happy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhudas
Shivamani was great inspite of the poor sound quality, esp early on in the show where his drums could hardly be heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by prabhudas
IR was looking uneasy and tried to "mellow down" Shivamani in his Olangal "Mood Kaapi" rendition [Wonder why he did that]. In the final "Veetukku" piece, he gave the reins to Shivamani and it was Shivamani's song all the way. In fact, we could see IR applauding SM without restraint in
a) "Ninnukkori Varnam" 2nd interlude. Superb improvisation by SM in the bass drum
b) The whole of SM's thani avarthanam in the final piece.
Yeah, the "isai dhaan engal vazhkai" sounded abrupt and out of place.
prabhudas
Junior Hubber
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 75
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:12 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally happened to watch the 2 parts from archieves and third part live from Jaya TV
( thro' NUMTV)
What can I say,
I wish I was in Chennai during the concert,
God make Mottai have a concert here in US keep him and us alive till it happens
"Sundari Kannal" (oru) " song was enough for me worth entire NUMTV subscription.
SPB, Chitra were the best, Shreya was not bad except for sodappifying the "theduthey" in "Kaatril endhan" song.
Personally I like her voice, the 3 in one telugu version was very nice too by Shreya, I was hoping SPB to join her and sing the Telugu version.
Hariharan, stole more songs, unfortunately , I should say, I never liked his improvs anyway on the stage, atleast was happy that he did less of this than what I saw him do in ARR concerts. Only good thing about HH was the Kaapi aalap before the Olangal orchestration was better than the aalap we hear by IR in the Italy Concert CD.
Karthik and Thipu did well in their respective songs, IR looked like he was constraining Thipu during " Unnai vida" song
=====================================
I don't think Raaja Sir was constraining Thipu. As far as my knowledge goes, he made him to smooth his voice to suit Kamals voice . I don't have much musical knowledge, except listening ti music only. Tippus voice was not proper in the beginging, but as Raaja controlled it, even Tippu acknowleged it with asmile when he sounded almost like original later.
can anybody tell me where i cud download the song "naan porandhu vandhadhu" from "mayabazar 1995
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by netfriend4u2005
hope the "musically knowledged ears" just listen to the song the way it is than finding fault.
To answer the folks having a panchaayathu or 'friendly firing' or whatever, I've been a regular visitor to this site since the last 5 years or so. When the site got migrated, I re-signed up late due to official constraints on bandwidth and net access restrictions. Now that everything cleared up, I've started posting again.
Funny that my name appears as newbie. Never mind..!
I hope that the folks noted how the audience applauded on these occasions.
1. During the second interlude in 'Sundari Kannaal' song, when the whole drums-trumphets-violin combo reaches a higher octave and the flute-bass violin combo takes over (just before the second charanam starts).
2. The starting bass flute of 'aasaya kaathula thoodhu vittu'.
It was great to be a part of the live audience. Some folks sitting in front of me went hysteric when IR finished his 'Thiruvasagam' bit.
I also watched that programme in jaya T.V.
But I think the praising here are 'overdosed' in this thread.
Nowadays even ordinaery orchestras are doing fine and fentastic live concerts.
Country of Vijyala iruntheengana ippadi than pesuveenga :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilaba
Ilayaraja takes a well earned vacation November 21, 2005
Isaignani Ilayaraja has traditionally spent his Diwali at his village in Pannaipuram. He would pay homage to his mother at her samadhi there before participating in the festivities.
This year however happened to be the Thalai deepavali for his son, Yuvan Shankar Raja and daughter Bavatharini. And he was also deeply engrossed in work. Therefore, he spent the day in Chennai. Now that the work related to his projects is over, he has taken off to Pannaipuram. He will be spending a few days in the rustic village setting. Besides, he has also planned to conduct a mega music program in Kerala as he did in Chennai recently. The Chennai concert was a big hit.
http://www.behindwoods.com/features/...ilayaraja.html
Hi, What happened to the DVD of Chennai concert? There is no update for long. Last update was that it will be cleared for DVD release by Java TV. After that????????
I downloaded the DVD rip from a torrent site.
what????
yes it is available here
http://www.tmstorrents.com/showthread.php?t=11674