IR Compositions: Lyrics and Situation

-ராசா பாடல் வரிகளுக்கு முக்கியத்துவம் கொடுப்பதில்லை
-ராசா வந்த பின் தமிழ் பாடல் வரிகளின் தரம் பாதாளத்துக்குப்போய் விட்டது
-ராசா தானே பல்லவியை எழுதி விடுகிறார்
-இசைக்கருவிகளின் ஆதிக்கத்தால் வரிகளுக்கு முக்கியத்துவம் இல்லாமல் செய்து விட்டார்
-தமிழைக்கொச்சையாக்கி விட்டார்
-வெறும் டப்பாங்குத்து

இவையெல்லாம் அவர் வந்த நாள் முதல் சந்தித்து வரும் குற்றச்சாட்டுகள்

அப்படி இருக்கும்போது, அவர் வெற்றிக்கு மட்டும் திடீரென்று எப்படி 'இவர் ஒரு முக்கியக்காரணம்' என்று பாடலாசிரியரை இழுக்கிறார்கள்?

பயங்கர முரண்பாடு :-)

'செலவெல்லாம் உன் கணக்கு, வரவில் மட்டும் எனக்கும் பங்கு' என்று சொல்லும் கள்ளத்தனம் தானே இது?

app,
one more complaint...

Computer la isai amaika muyarchi seiyarar.
Orchestra ku velai ilalmal pogum.

Pavam Orchestra people....
idhuuvm
IR ai patri - magazine la vandha complaint app.

Yes, Usha chEchi, he is probably at the top position in "getting bashed despite having talent that is comparable to any genius in the world in his field" :-) pseudo நக்கீரன்மார் வாழ்க! :-(

Since you (and your brother) know about the phenomenal early successes of IR i.e. much before the arrival of VM into TF field, you can easily recognize the false claims of these fellows.

Who knows, tomorrow some "mOru" or "chORu" will come and write that IR was shot into prominence in his first film itself - only because he scored for superstar Surya's father who was the superstar of yesteryears :-)

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Yes, Usha chEchi, he is probably at the top position in "getting bashed despite having talent that is comparable to any genius in the world in his field" :-) pseudo நக்கீரன்மார் வாழ்க! :-(

Since you (and your brother) know about the phenomenal early successes of IR i.e. much before the arrival of VM into TF field, you can easily recognize the false claims of these fellows.

Who knows, tomorrow some "mOru" or "chORu" will come and write that IR was shot into prominence in his first film itself - only because he scored for superstar Surya's father who was the superstar of yesteryears :-)

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it is all due to panchu who named him ilaiyaraja - the numerology was too good to be let down by the unpost modernist(see if you say he is traditional, he will become a classic) paamaran holding it.

funniest statements charu nivedita likes have made is saying yuvan is a better MD than raasappu - like saying Moon is more luminous than sun.

I would probably restate the arguments set into motion by venki as two sets of arguments:

a. Of all the lyricist who wrote for Raja, Vairamuthu wrote the best lyrics for Raja's music

b. Of all the songs composed by Raja, the best songs are those which have lyrics by Vairamuthu

My gut feel is that venki belongs to the first camp. If we take Kannadasan out of the mix, I guess majority of us will have no issues in accepting the first type of argument.

People like Charu fall into the category who wish the second type of argument is true. I don't think anyone will need to seriously debate this because we all know about Raja's success before and after VM. And if you take the success in other languages, this just doesn't hold water.

I would see app_eng posts as a clear indication of these two lines of thought. When app wrote his wish list from Raja, he very clearly mentioned that he would love Raja to work with Vairamuthu, he was agreeing to point a. But when venki quoted Charu as saying Raja's success was due to VM, app said it was idiotic. He was disagreeing with point b. I fully endorse app's view on this. Would love to see Raja work with VM or someone of his caliber but at the same time I have no hesitation in saying that whoever Raja works with, the music will be Raja's and the music will not be diminished due to the absence of a particular lyricist.

Once we have the clarity of what the argument is, we don't really need to fight :) The first type of argument, we anyway agree. The second type of argument is idiotic and doesn't deserve a reply.

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

funniest statements charu nivedita likes have made is saying yuvan is a better MD than raasappu - like saying Moon is more luminous than sun.

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:shock: You're kidding right?!
Funniest, best ellam Saaru ku apply panradhu kashtam. He keeps raising the bar with every subsequent article of his

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Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)

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Originally Posted by jaiganes

funniest statements charu nivedita likes have made is saying yuvan is a better MD than raasappu - like saying Moon is more luminous than sun.

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:shock: You're kidding right?!
Funniest, best ellam Saaru ku apply panradhu kashtam. He keeps raising the bar with every subsequent article of his

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saami sathiyama appdi dhaan andha blogla adhu ezudhi irukku.

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

I would probably restate the arguments set into motion by venki as two sets of arguments:

a. Of all the lyricist who wrote for Raja, Vairamuthu wrote the best lyrics for Raja's music

b. Of all the songs composed by Raja, the best songs are those which have lyrics by Vairamuthu

My gut feel is that venki belongs to the first camp.

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உங்க "gut feel" தவறானது என்பது என் தாழ்மையான அபிப்ராயம். அவர் ஒரு வைரமுத்து வெறியர், ராசாவை எப்படியெல்லாம் மட்டம் தட்டலாம் என்ற ஒரே நோக்கத்துடன் இந்த forum'க்கு வருகிறார் என்றே தோன்றுகிறது.

அவரது சில முந்தைய பதிப்புகளில் இருந்து :

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

கடந்த இருபது வருடத்தில் ராஜாவின் இசையில் வந்த அருமையான பாடல்களை கணக்கிலெடுத்தால், பெரும்பாலானவை மலிவான தரமற்ற, கற்பனை வறட்சி மிகுந்த பாடல் வரிகளைக் கொண்டவை.
....
வாலி ராஜாவை "எனக்கு வெண்பா சொல்லிக்கொடுத்தவர்" என வாயார புகழும்போது எனக்கு திருவிளையாடல் நாகேஷின் "ம்ம், இதெல்லாம் நல்லா பண்ணு, ஆனா பாட்டுல மட்டும் கோட்டை வுட்டுடு" என்ற வசனங்கள் தான் நினைவுக்கு வருகிறது.
....
கவிஞர் கடந்த இருபது வருடத்தில் புதிய தலைமுறையை தொடர்ந்து ஈர்த்து வந்திருக்கிறார். அந்தக் கண்ணோட்டத்தில் பார்க்கும்போது ராஜாவின் வீச்சு வைரமுத்துவின் வீச்சைக் காட்டிலும் குறைவே.

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இவற்றுக்கெல்லாம் மேல் இப்போ சாருவையும் உதவிக்கு அழைத்திருக்கிறார். நீங்க சொன்ன 2வது கூட்டத்தவர் இவர்.

If one goes through all his postings, the appreciation is always centered around VM's lyric while criticism is on everything else. And according to him, VM has written great poem to other MDs than IR / ARR and stood on his own leg (some of the films quoted by him there are ridiculous IMO)

Hardly any appreciation for musical part or the great talents called IR / ARR. So, please don't let the claims as "IR enga ALu" etc or the fact that someone is merely coming to post in the IR forum put that person in your first category automatically:-)

Also, in my 'Adhangam' list, getting better lyric is just "one of the many" to get greater output from IR. Going by my original line of thought, better lyric is similar to getting better recording - definitely nice to have, but not something that defined IR's glittering career :-)

app,
indha chaaru - onum theiryamal olararar.
adhan sonnen - kazhudhaiku theiryuma karpoora vasanai.... nu...

Anana patta Subbudu - Carnatic details depth
ku therinja indha manusharae - IR oda 6 padathuu apparam IR ai pazhikaradha niruthitu
- IR enna seiyarar nu Watch panna arambithavar....

Avar- Romba late a - IR in invention ai purindhu kondavar....

indha chaaru - verum dhoosi.........

one more point.

Kadavul irukar - idhai unarndhavaruku
solla theiryum....

kadavulai Unara - enna vazhi nu solla thieryum....

Kadavul illai enbavar

Romba kashta pattu - kadavul vishayam ellam padipar.. (Infact kadavul avar kuda than irupar.)

Anal - Ivar dhan kadavul ilal enrae ninaikararae...

So, kadavul arul - ivargaluku puriyadhu...
Adhu pola,
indha chaaru - IR ai pazhikanam nu mudivu seidhu - Adharkaga arum paadu padarar...

Adhanal, indha jenmathil - Ivar oru Nyana Sooniyamaga than iruka mudiyum......

thaan oru Nyana sooniyam ena unarndhu kollamal,
miga perumaiyaga - IR ai pazhithu kondu irukirar...

So no issues about his thoughts......

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Originally Posted by app_engine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sureshs65

I would probably restate the arguments set into motion by venki as two sets of arguments:

a. Of all the lyricist who wrote for Raja, Vairamuthu wrote the best lyrics for Raja's music

b. Of all the songs composed by Raja, the best songs are those which have lyrics by Vairamuthu

My gut feel is that venki belongs to the first camp.

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உங்க "gut feel" தவறானது என்பது என் தாழ்மையான அபிப்ராயம். அவர் ஒரு வைரமுத்து வெறியர், ராசாவை எப்படியெல்லாம் மட்டம் தட்டலாம் என்ற ஒரே நோக்கத்துடன் இந்த forum'க்கு வருகிறார் என்றே தோன்றுகிறது.

அவரது சில முந்தைய பதிப்புகளில் இருந்து :

Quote:

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

கடந்த இருபது வருடத்தில் ராஜாவின் இசையில் வந்த அருமையான பாடல்களை கணக்கிலெடுத்தால், பெரும்பாலானவை மலிவான தரமற்ற, கற்பனை வறட்சி மிகுந்த பாடல் வரிகளைக் கொண்டவை.
....
வாலி ராஜாவை "எனக்கு வெண்பா சொல்லிக்கொடுத்தவர்" என வாயார புகழும்போது எனக்கு திருவிளையாடல் நாகேஷின் "ம்ம், இதெல்லாம் நல்லா பண்ணு, ஆனா பாட்டுல மட்டும் கோட்டை வுட்டுடு" என்ற வசனங்கள் தான் நினைவுக்கு வருகிறது.
....
கவிஞர் கடந்த இருபது வருடத்தில் புதிய தலைமுறையை தொடர்ந்து ஈர்த்து வந்திருக்கிறார். அந்தக் கண்ணோட்டத்தில் பார்க்கும்போது ராஜாவின் வீச்சு வைரமுத்துவின் வீச்சைக் காட்டிலும் குறைவே.

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இவற்றுக்கெல்லாம் மேல் இப்போ சாருவையும் உதவிக்கு அழைத்திருக்கிறார். நீங்க சொன்ன 2வது கூட்டத்தவர் இவர்.

If one goes through all his postings, the appreciation is always centered around VM's lyric while criticism is on everything else. And according to him, VM has written great poem to other MDs than IR / ARR and stood on his own leg (some of the films quoted by him there are ridiculous IMO)

Hardly any appreciation for musical part or the great talents called IR / ARR. So, please don't let the claims as "IR enga ALu" etc or the fact that someone is merely coming to post in the IR forum put that person in your first category automatically:-)

Also, in my 'Adhangam' list, getting better lyric is just "one of the many" to get greater output from IR. Going by my original line of thought, better lyric is similar to getting better recording - definitely nice to have, but not something that defined IR's glittering career :-)

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poombaavo aambal aambal
punnagayo saambal saambal

enakku thonichu aanaal ezudhalai
neenga ezudhiteenga -
like crazy mohan says
'aanalum ungalukku romba dhairiyam saar'

digression

http://jeyamohan.in/?p=4972

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என் வரையில் இவற்றால் அபாரமான பயன் இருப்பதை நான்கடவுள்படம் வெளியானபோது கண்டுகொண்டேன். தேடல் வழியாக பல ஆயிரம்பேர் என் இணையதளத்துக்குள் வந்துவிட்டார்கள். படம்போனபின்னரும் அவர்கள் போகவுமில்லை. இப்போதும் அலெக்ஸா ரேட்டிங்கில் என் இணையதளம் குதித்திருப்பதைப் பார்க்கலாம்.

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This is possibly one reason for Charu to drag IR without any provacation. Just being clever!

I remember reading Gnani writing in one of his O pakkangaL that one of the most blogged subjects is IR

end-digression

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Originally Posted by app_engine

உங்க "gut feel" தவறானது என்பது என் தாழ்மையான அபிப்ராயம். அவர் ஒரு வைரமுத்து வெறியர், ராசாவை எப்படியெல்லாம் மட்டம் தட்டலாம் என்ற ஒரே நோக்கத்துடன் இந்த forum'க்கு வருகிறார் என்றே தோன்றுகிறது.

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சந்தடி சாக்கில் சேற்றை தெளித்து விட்டு சென்றிருக்கிறார் திரு. app_engine.

கழுவிக் கொள்வது என் கடமை. தற்போது நேரம் இல்லாததால் வார இறுதியில் என் தரப்பு விளக்கத்தை தருவதாக இருக்கிறேன். அதுவே ராஜா சம்பந்தமான எல்லாத் திரிகளிலும், எனது கடைசிப் பதிவாக இருக்கும் என்றும் தெரிவித்துக் கொள்கிறேன். இனி இதுபோன்ற விவாதங்களில் என்னையும், எண்ணற்ற ராஜா ரசிகர்களையும் ஈடுபடுத்த விரும்பவில்லை.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

சந்தடி சாக்கில் சேற்றை தெளித்து விட்டு சென்றிருக்கிறார் திரு. app_engine.

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ஐயா வெங்கிராம்,

இது தாங்களே தெளித்துக்கொண்ட "சாரு". நான் மேற்கோள் காட்டின உங்கள் பதிப்புகளின் அடிப்படையில் வந்த அனுமானம் மற்றும் சுரேஷுக்கு தெளிவு படுத்த எடுத்த முயற்சி. அவ்வளவே. ஆள் இன்னாரென்று அறியா வலையுலகில், அவர்களது பதிப்புகளே அடையாளங்கள். ராசா பகுதியில் தங்களது பதிப்புகளையெல்லாம் தயை கூர்ந்து மீண்டும் ஒரு முறை வாசித்துப்பாருங்கள்.

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

கழுவிக் கொள்வது என் கடமை. தற்போது நேரம் இல்லாததால் வார இறுதியில் என் தரப்பு விளக்கத்தை தருவதாக இருக்கிறேன்.

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தாராளமாக, வரவேற்கிறோம்!

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

அதுவே ராஜா சம்பந்தமான எல்லாத் திரிகளிலும், எனது கடைசிப் பதிவாக இருக்கும் என்றும் தெரிவித்துக் கொள்கிறேன்.

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லட்சம் பேருக்கு மேல் உள்ள ஹப்பில் ஒரு ஆள் சொன்ன அபிப்ராயத்துக்காக முணுக்கென்று கோபித்துக்கொண்டு போக வேண்டியதில்லை. உங்கள் நல்ல கருத்துகளைத்தொடர்ந்து பதித்தால் இங்கு வரவேற்க ஆயிரக்கணக்கில் ஆட்கள் இருக்கிறார்கள்!

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Originally Posted by venkkiram

இனி இதுபோன்ற விவாதங்களில் என்னையும், எண்ணற்ற ராஜா ரசிகர்களையும் ஈடுபடுத்த விரும்பவில்லை.

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நல்ல முடிவு! சாரு மாதிரி வம்பு-வீம்புகளை இங்கு வரவழைக்காமல் இருத்தல் ரத்த அழுத்தத்துக்கு நல்லது!

:thumbsup:

app engine - :thumbsup :clap:

app - Azhaga, theliva solli irukeenga..

thank you.

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=5554

Jeyamohan writes:

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ஆனால் பாடலில் ஒரு புதுமை தேவை. அதிகமாகக் கேள்விப்படாத சொற்சேர்க்கைகள் புதிய உவமைகள் இருக்கவேண்டும். இல்லையேல் அவை இசையின் இனிமையால் கேட்கப்பட்டாலும் சீக்கிரமே சலித்துவிடும்.

உதாரணமாக

நினைவோ ஒரு பறவை
விரிக்கும் அதன் சிறகை!

போன்ற ஒரு வரி இசை கொஞ்சம் பழகினாலும் நினைவில் நீடிக்கும். ஆனால் அப்படி ஒரு பொருளழகு இல்லாத வரிகள் அவை அளிக்கும் அனுபவத்தை காலப்போக்கில் இழந்துவிடும். உதாரணமாக எனக்கு மிகப்பிடித்த இசை கொண்ட

சந்தா ஓ சந்தா
இவள் சம்மதம் தந்தா

என்ற வரியை எப்போது கேட்டாலும் எரிச்சல்தான்.
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Here we go...from trusted person. I think many of IR songs in 90s and now have lyrics that create "எரிச்சல்".

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Originally Posted by genesis

from trusted person

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Appadinna??

"Hava havala raani huva huvala meni Raani meni Raani!" - idhaye naanga kandukkala :lol: You can listen to this song even 28 years from now 8-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bala (Karthik)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by genesis

from trusted person

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Appadinna??

"Hava havala raani huva huvala meni Raani meni Raani!" - idhaye naanga kandukkala :lol: You can listen to this song even 28 years from now 8-)

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someone unlike you!! :D

Oh, bank account details ellam kuduppeenga pola irukku! Good for you :lol2:

I think it is fair - Even IR has mentioned that he has done so many 'kuppai films' in the past for which he might have tailored thw words. aanaal naama inge kuppayai kelaruvadharkaaga varaliye? Genesis sir. Neenga nalla kelarureenga.... Kuppaya...

நான் குப்பையை கிளறவில்லை. நீங்கள் குப்பையை கோபுரத்தில் வைப்பதை எதிர்கிறேன். உடனே நான் இளையராஜா இசையை குப்பை என்று சொல்கிறேன் என்று சொல்ல வேண்டாம். கடந்த 10-15 வருடங்களில் நிறைய குப்பை சேர்ந்து விட்டது என்றே சொல்கிறேன்.

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Originally Posted by genesis

நான் குப்பையை கிளறவில்லை. நீங்கள் குப்பையை கோபுரத்தில் வைப்பதை எதிர்கிறேன். உடனே நான் இளையராஜா இசையை குப்பை என்று சொல்கிறேன் என்று சொல்ல வேண்டாம். கடந்த 10-15 வருடங்களில் நிறைய குப்பை சேர்ந்து விட்டது என்றே சொல்கிறேன்.

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kuppayai erikkum neruppum nerayave irukku saar. Appallaam silentaa irundhuttu kuppayai mattume sutti kaatta varavangala naama ennaannu solradhu?

தமிழே, தப்பிச்சுக்கோ!

http://www.writerpara.com/paper/?p=11

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Sometimes, he does make suggestions on the lyrics.

“I often ask them why they use lyrics that explain the visuals on the screen when the sequence is self-explanatory? We could avoid redundant lyrics,” he notes. “I have had the opportunity to see how the lyrics complement the tune during my experience of working with greats like Kavignar Kannadsan.”

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http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/article79741.ece

Going through the discussions again, I think one point out discussed is that there are lyricists in other languages who are equal or better than vm. We tend to overrate vm. A sirivennala sitaram sastry is no less. I can talk about this now since I have now learnt telugu almost as well as tamil. Even veturi, who is kind of the vaali equivalent has some great lyrics for Raja. If you take Swathi Muthyam, the telugu lyrics sparkle in comparison to the tamil version. Vm oblivious to the situation and the characters, uses "varam thandha saami" when a brahmin character is unlikely to use the word "saami". And the telugu lyrics sit on the tune much better. I am not sure if it was veturi or sastry who wrote for swathi muthyam.
Even granted the limitations of dubbing lyrics, vm has done a poor job there. Same with saagara sangamam. I quote this because vm fans have the habit of ubbishing javed akthar for dil se lyrics in comparison to uyirae trying to imply that vm is the best in india. I am not that familiar with malayalm to talk about mallu lyrics but the way the words sit on the tunes, I do think raja has had some good mallu lyrics too

Plum,

'vatapatra saayeki' from Swathimuthyam was by C. Narayana Reddy, Cnare for short. KV had in one interview said that the lyrics here were written first and the tune came later.

I agree with you regarding Telugu having lyricist equal to Vairamuthu. While I too regard Gulzar and Javed Akthar not to be in the same league as the Southern lyricists, I wouldn't say VM beats them all. Sitarama Sastry's work in Swarnakamalam is something which can only be matched by the lyrics of Kannadasan, a combination of great poetry fitting the situation perfectly and blending superbly with the tune. You can write a huge article about the lyrics of swarnakamalam alone!! While Veturi can be considered equivalent to Vaali in terms of longevity and his ability to write for any type of movie, IMO his best is far better than Vaali. Here again, it is KV who draws the best out of him, be it Sankarabaranam or Sagara Sangamam.

As with you I too don't know Malayalam so cannot comment on the quality. But from whatever little I understand the lyrics of people like ONV seem to be of very high quality.

Since I do not understand tamil, I cannot comment on the lyrical genius of VM. But i agree that Veturi and Sirivennela have been assets to telugu film music, after the 50s,60s and 70s. Veturi needs a good director to inspire him. His range is tremendous.He can write absolutely classy lyrics and even the crass ones. And sirivennela's imageries are amazing.

While we are talking about Sirivennela's lyrics for Swarna kamalam, please see this: http://musicmavericks.blogspot.com/2...rivennela.html

A word-by-word explanation of the meaning of the song "Sivapoojaku" from Swarna kamalam.

raagas,

Thanks for the link. I had actually wanted to search for the same link but did not have the patience earlier :) Thought I will search and post it later in the day.

Raagas, thx for the link. Nice dissection.

The writer mentions that he is not focussing on ir in this song. However his part is there in the delineation between the tune for venkatesh(reverent, uptight, classical) and the one for bhanupriya(free flowing, carefree, folkish) which represent their mind states at tha point of their life

Out of turn, I was listening to Oru vaandu kootame from nandalala - the lyrics are no great poetry by any stretch of imagination, but they are at such a simple level complementing the music which tries to 'sound' simple and kiddish It is like a hand and a glove stitched for it. Perfect match...

True Plum. Subtly done but generally Raja is even more subtle :) He could have easily used either of them as a separate song. I generally feel that the number of ideas that Raja gets into one song is phenomenal. When I hear the latest songs of various MDs, you can see that the whole song is based on one catchy idea and the rest come more as fillers!! Good for the MDs that people are satisfied by that one idea, whether it be an original one or transposed from somewhere else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Plum

Going through the discussions again, I think one point out discussed is that there are lyricists in other languages who are equal or better than vm. We tend to overrate vm. A sirivennala sitaram sastry is no less. I can talk about this now since I have now learnt telugu almost as well as tamil. Even veturi, who is kind of the vaali equivalent has some great lyrics for Raja. If you take Swathi Muthyam, the telugu lyrics sparkle in comparison to the tamil version. Vm oblivious to the situation and the characters, uses "varam thandha saami" when a brahmin character is unlikely to use the word "saami". And the telugu lyrics sit on the tune much better. I am not sure if it was veturi or sastry who wrote for swathi muthyam.
Even granted the limitations of dubbing lyrics, vm has done a poor job there. Same with saagara sangamam. I quote this because vm fans have the habit of ubbishing javed akthar for dil se lyrics in comparison to uyirae trying to imply that vm is the best in india. I am not that familiar with malayalm to talk about mallu lyrics but the way the words sit on the tunes, I do think raja has had some good mallu lyrics too

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No one is saying VM is the greatest poet/lyricist in the world. (unlike you claim IR is the greatest in the world). As far as I know Gulzar is equal or better than VM. But VM is a better lyricist than IR. And IR does not want to work with talented lyricists like VM. It is again and again proven and told by many people that IR is not a team player. (latest being Pazhassi Raja controversy). It is either his way or no-way. Accept and move-on!!

genesis,

This is the problem. There was strictly NO CONTROVERSY in IR's speech. It was there on youtube for any person to see.

That some idiotic political elements chose to twist his innocent speech, for their own presence in the news is the problem.

Definitely IR was not to blame in this case. Period. In the case of 'Adhi ushus', he did tune to the pre-written lyrics of ONV. Where was he trying to twist the hands of the lyricist? He was just boasting of himself in adding the "feeling of loss" by his composing, to a lyric that had "military march" sandham.

That way, VM had problems with ARR also - supposedly the holy cow when it comes to relationships / humility etc. WHY?

App, leave it. People who haven't even listend to the speech are trying to settle old scores based on reports :lol:

To vm fanatics who are trying hard to tarnish raja desparately
In your own idol's words:
Pazhaya bAkki irukkudhA
AiyAa(kkaL) manasu thudikkudhA?

genesis,

I would have argued with you but for this statement, "As far as I know Gulzar is equal or better than VM". My personal feeling is that Gulzar, in film music, never touched the heights that VM did. Suffice to say, app_eng has clearly given what the problem is in arguments that you come up with. You assume that everyone else is as pure as the 'jibba' they wear and only Raja is not as pure. Once you try and find out the behavior of your idols honestly, you will find that you can easily accept Raja's behavior as well.

So ahead and tell me what you consider are the bad points with Vairamuthu.

genesis,

I find that we are in agreement. You agree that VM is not the greatest lyricist in the world and we agree that Raja is the greatest MD in the world :lol: Peace.

Since i am unaware of the genius of VM, i wont comment on VM vs Gulzar issue. But i always felt that it has been gross injustice to put IR's miniscule (but grand) Hindi repertoire in the hands of Sameer (Hey Ram, Cheeni Kum). I mention these 2 films because:

1. Hey Ram had a partition angle to the story and Gulzar had himself written poetry/short stories on Partition issue, which has been one of his muses.

2. Cheeni Kum - This whole concept of Love doesnt know age and old man falling in love with a middle-aged lady is new and it is Gulzar's territory. He did a terrific job in the song "Dil Tho Baccha Hai Jee"(film: Ishqiya, music: Vishal Bharadwaj... give this album a listen...it is a brilliant soundtrack,ignoring the remixes). The premise of Cheeni Kum and this song's lyrics match so well that Gulzar would have really elevated or complemented the music by soaking the music in much more sweeter thoughts/wordplay. Not this song alone,but as such, gulzar has a fine understanding of deeper human emotions, subtleties and relationships. And his flair for putting across those sensitive images is stunning and unique. I really missed Gulzar in Cheeni Kum.

Govt of India announced Padma Bhushan for IR today. It is an honor to the award.

app_engine and plum,

I am not a VM fanatic. I am more angry with die-hard IR (DHIR) fans than IR himself. It is a clear fact that IR does not want to work him VM for some reason. To justify that lot of DHIR fans have made fun of VM. I do not think it is fair. That's all.