The Greatest Indian Epic - Mahabharath

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Originally Posted by viggop

Dear HariKrishnan Sir

Please take your own time.But do explain how Duryodhana got into heaven.I think he must have sepnt sometime in hell too like all the Pandavas(except yudishtra).The concept of hell and heaven are somewhat confusing to me in Hindu context.We have the cycle of birth and death and that cycle ends only when we get Moksha.Moksha is merging with Brahmam or Shivam or Vishnu etc.So, does this this heaven mean being merged with Brahmam?Oncemerged, there is no seprate identity of a individual soul(jivatma),right? so, how come yudishtra has body too in heaven? Or maybe, this heaven is just another planne of existence and people in heaven too have to strive for moksha? I think i'm getting confused by reading various philosophies.:-(

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Viggop: Can I try my hand at answering this, or was this question addressed only to Hari Krishnan?
:wink:

Badri, please go ahead.

As far as I am concerned, I belong to that category of persons who have reasons to believe that what is described in the epics are true, at least in part and the geographical/historical references that they contain can be traced back. The details given are so vivid.

But as for the point that is raised now, this is one of those points where the story moves away from history to a matter of theory.

Please go ahead and give your views. The question might have been addressed to me. But everyone has his/her view, which nonetheless deserves attention.

Regards,
Hari Krishnan

Thanks Hari Krishnan.

Well, we find an answer to Viggop's query in the B.Gita where Krishna says that those who perform the various sacrifices that are detailed in the Vedas attain to Heaven and enjoy the pleasures therein. Ch IX Sh 20

Traividyaa maam somapaah pootapaapaa
Yajnairishtwaa swargatim praarthayante;
Te punyamaasaadya surendraloka-
Mashnanti divyaan divi devabhogaan.

But thereafter, after having enjoyed those vast heavens, when the accumulated merit is finished, they have to return to the world, as evidenced by the next shloka.

Te tam bhuktwaa swargalokam vishaalam
Ksheene punye martyalokam vishanti;

Then again, he says that those that desire the objects and undertake the various rites and rituals enjoined in the Vedas are forever coming and going. (heaven and earth). But those that do not think of anything else except me attain Moksha.

As Viggop rightly said, there is no coming from Moksham. Again as Krishna says, "Yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama" Attaning which there is no return, that is My Abode or Moksha.

From this, it becomes clear that heaven and hell may well be different planes of existence to which the Jiva or the soul attains to and enjoys/suffers the fruit of those specific actions which take the jiva there. When that gets over, the Jiva is born again.

However, all the other actions that the Jiva does during its earthly sojourn give the results too - the good and the bad that we enjoy even when we are born and live on Earth.

So, specific karmas enjoined in the Vedas or prohibited by them take man to heaven or hell. All other karmas merely sustain him on earth giving him various joys and sorrow. But to get beyond heaven, hell and earth, is Moksha.


And in fact, seen from this angle, one can even understand how or why even Duryodhana can go to Heaven. How good or bad a person is has nothing to do with going to Swarga. This is clear if we look at the behaviour of Indra as mentioned in the epics, there are times when he really stoops pretty low. Also consider Nahusha who became Indra for a while...his behaviour too was not noteworthy, despite attaining to such a high status. Then what to say of people who merely by force of their acts can attain to heaven without a corresponding mental or internal evolutionj.

One must not think that ordinary good acts will take us to heaven. If that were the case, then we will neither have joy nor sorrow in this life on earth. If all joys were to be enjoyed only in heaven, and all sorrows only in hell, then why do we say "poorva janma karma" when good or bad comes into our lot in our day to day life?

This alone clearly indicates that doing certain karmas, certain yagnas, yagas, or say dying in the battlefield doing the duty (veera swarga) etc can take a Jiva to heaven for a specific period of time. When that is over, he comes back. So going to heaven is not the final achievement. Moksha alone is the final emancipation.

Of course, seen from a Jnana point of view, all this is meaningless. It is only when seen from a Karma point of view that all these make sense.

Thanks Badri for your detailed explanation.
:-)

Yes Badri is right, Lord Krishna says in Gita, that if one does good deeds, he will get a place in heaven for an 'X' period of time, same goes for hell, if one conduct evil deeds, he will go into hell, again for an 'X' period of time, then once these X time periods have expired these atmas will take an another birth in the form another perishable body.

In Mahabhartha as far as I know only Karna and Bheeshma, and sudhama, Lord Krishna's dearest friend(from child hood) will attain Mukti, the rest including the Pandavas will only go to heaven.

The process of attaining mukti, is by self realisation, knowing ur Bhraman(origin) and free ur self from Maya, devote your bhakthi to Iswar or Isa as it is known in Gita, and just think of only Iswar, and this is the ONLY way to Mukti.

any other suggestions

Raghu, when in a nutshell, you have captured the essence of Jnana and Bhakti margas, what else is there to add or suggest!!

Of course you are right! All the Vedas, Upanishads, and Sutras declare that only by Jnana or by Ananya Bhakti can the Lord be known. And knowing Him, of course, is becoming Him, or merging with Him.

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Originally Posted by sbadri99

Raghu, when in a nutshell, you have captured the essence of Jnana and Bhakti margas, what else is there to add or suggest!!

Of course you are right! All the Vedas, Upanishads, and Sutras declare that only by Jnana or by Ananya Bhakti can the Lord be known. And knowing Him, of course, is becoming Him, or merging with Him.

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thanks Badri anne, I just wanted to clarifications from other intellectuals like you, as the saying says.

'Known is a drop unknown is an ocean, who knows him self knows all'.

thank you.

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Originally Posted by Raghu

'Known is a drop unknown is an ocean, who knows him self knows all'.

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Isn't it that drops form the ocean? Isn't it that the more you know the most you don't know?

While I was going through some of the postings about the Drona and Durupadha friendship turned enemity and finally bitterness ending up with Killing Drona..... ( really really indigestable ... No one will shudder to think of killing his friend.... Such was the enemity )

The same Maharabaratham also highlights the incomparable friendship and the bondage between SriKrishna and Sudhama.
Its we ordinaly mortals who look for levels and divisions... but for the Almighty... all are one.....

The episode of Sudhama getting prepared for meeting his childhood friennd Krishna who is a King now and all he had was few pieces of Aval.... which he took it hesitatingly and met Krishna. How Krishna welcomes him and attends to him with great care .....

Krishna will also ask him ... Friend what did you bring for me ?? and will not wait for him... He will search and find a small piece of aval... packed in old cloth... and will GLEEFULLY have it....

While writing this... enakku mei silirkiradhu........

Krishna knew everything..... He wanted to honour and please his childhood friend.... and took the aval.... with the enthusiasm of a kid...... Just to show that he is the same old Krishna to Sudhama.......

We should learn from Ramayana and Mahabaratha.....

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Originally Posted by S.Balaji

While writing this... enakku mei silirkiradhu........

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Mate you may be suffering from a lung infection, better you consult a doctor.