Ramanujacharya - The great Philosopher and Social Reformer

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Geetha authorises “Social Discrimination” ?

Ramanujacharya continued his reply to the Vedic Scholars…

No doubt further too...in Geetha there are Slokas specifically mentioning as Brahmana, Kashathriya, Vaisya and Soodhra classifications of Mankind CREATED SO BY BIRTH by God.

But invariably in all those slokas, it clearly declares undoubtedly… that such categorizations are based on their varied standards in Sathva, Rajas, and Thaamas qualities… inborn by nature,…

...conveying the same concept of the above-mentioned Sloka more analytically

So to say, even in one and the same family of any Caste, amongst the four Sons of the same Parents of one Blood-relation...

...there can be one born of Kshathriya qualities while his brothers may be Brahmana, Vaisya and Soodhra... conforming to the sense of Geetha.

Thus, such a Quality-basis is totally unrelated to the Communal-theory of the so called Manu-Dharma Sasthram...

...NOT A SAASTHRAM.... NOR DIVINE, since NOT MADE BY GOD....

... but AUTOCRATICALLY stipulated by the Kings, the Human-beings.

...imitating the same names mentioned in Geetha and Vedas..for their Caste- Names..

Then the Scholars raked up the Vedic sense in relation to Geetha....

...Claiming that the Geetha follows the Vedic-concept of Communal- discrimination by birth as high and low...

...in the Strata of Society comprising of Brahmana, Kshathriya, Vaisya and Soodhra....

... Purusha-sooktha of Yajur-Veda... says

Braahmanosya Mukham.aaseeth. Baahu Raajanya krithaha
Ooru thadhasya yadh Vaisyaha Padhmyaagum Soodhro ajaayatha

On hearing so... Ramanuja laughed at them and said

....“What a PERVERTED MEANING.!!”

...To Continue.

sudhama sir,

Excelent job, keep going. can you please tell about 'Madhvacharya'
and his time and contribution to vedic literature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by s_anandaraj

sudhama sir,

Excelent job, keep going. can you please tell about 'Madhvacharya'
and his time and contribution to vedic literature.

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Thank you. I will be happy to write on Madhwacharya too. But very much tight-timed.

See out of about 170 threads I am participating... most of which initiated by me...

...how I am progressing!... very very slow. !!

yes, i saw and wonder perfection on your works. pl. go ahead on your work.

thanks

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Vedas authorize CASTE-DIVISIONS of Society?

Ramanujacharya replied to the Vedic pundits …refuting their False-Claim that Vedas authorize CASTE-DIVISIONS …

…on the basis of….. “ONE’S BIRTH and PARENTAGE.”…

…in support of which they quoted…

Vedic Quotation:---

Braahmanosya Mukham.aaseeth. Baahu Raajanya krithaha
Ooru thadhasya yadh Vaisyaha Padhmyaagum Soodhro ajaayatha

Ramanuja clarified that their contention was the perverted sense of the Vedic terminologies… while their proper meaning is as below.

Here the words of Brahmana, Rajanya, Vysya and Soodhra… are not all the Caste-names but only the related Qualities of Sathwa, Rajasa and Thamasa gunas…

…showing their relevant roles in the God’s conducting the Universe.

God being SATHWA-FACED…looks and decides on the basis of Sathwa guna…

...the outcome of Wisdom, Righteousness, Justice and Uniform Love towards all.

Being RAJASA ARMED..His actions are dynamic, forceful, Supreme-
Commanding.

Being VYSYA –THIGHED…God’s whole Rule or Rein is supported by
the Complex quality approach towards His creations by more of Love and Equanimity … totally free of Anger and Hatred

Being SOODRA SOURCED BY FEET… He is Service-minded, towards
His creations with a Fatherly-spirit towards his children…

…irrespective of His Supremacy in all respects.

…His whole body stands on such a humble Service-spirit like an affectionate Mother towards her babies.

Simply because these Vedic terms have been adopted by the Kings and used for labeling the children for some sections of. Society…

…on the basis of their Parentage… it does not relate to them at all.

In the Vedas or Geetha…is there any mention of such Names relating to their Parentage or Community?

This Vedic Sloka only means… that although God is a SUDDHA-SATHWA …with an approach by Wisdom…

His actions by reality are the Complex forms of three gunas…

…matching with the similar qualities amongst His creations.

And this Sloka has nothing to mean the Man-created Caste divisions …

…since all His creations are His Children deserving equal Parental Love and Justice

So God is IMPARTIAL with UNIVERSAL LOVE.…concluded Ramanuja
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High and Low Castes.!..GOD-MADE SOCIAL-STRATA?

Silenced by the undisputable Counter-arguments from Ramanuja Acharya...

... the Vedic Pundits. raised another point of SOCIAL-STRATA .. and asked...

"It is confusing for us and appears to be INCONSISTENT and Self-contradictory in Vedas....

Why God's face is depicted to BRAHMANA... Arms (Hands) to KSHATHRIYA, and Thighs to VAISYA and the Feet to SOODHRA...

...presenting the picture of Castes order of Superiority and Inferiority from Top to Bottom... as a Social-strata?

On hearing so...Ramanuja laughed and replied....

"Repeatedly you are unnecessarily and IRRELEVANTLY bringing in the Social picture of Communal-divisions, which has nothing to do here... simply because of the mention by words Brahmana, Kshathriya, Vaisya etc.

Hereby I further clarify. Brahmana, Kasthathriya and the like here denotes the relevant Qualities attributed.

No doubt Sathva-guna is superior than the two other Qualities...But that does not mean all the Brahmanas born in the caste you have named so....are of Sathwa-guna...

...nor the most Inferior Quality of Indolence and Servitude can be found in one and all the so called Soodhras

...because everone of the so called socially Soodhra... INVARIABLY is not inborn with Thamasa Qualities... based on Parentage.

Similarly even a Brahmana or Kshathriya-caste person may or may not be so inferior by qualities BY BIRTH.

Vedas, Geetha and the like Gospels.... Nowhere mention these names for Castes or the Communal- divisions...

...but only for the Qualities of Humans born with... Irrespective of PARENTAGE.... as I have already detailed that amongst the Brothers and Sisters of One and the same blood and Ancestry....

...One may be a BORN-BRAHMANA ...while the other a Born-Kshathriya... and another a Born-soodhra too.... based on their INNATE QUALITIES...

...a Varied STRATA OF PERSONAGE. The Yardstick is Not Parentage... but Inborn Qualities... IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTES !!!

Here the Veda describes God's approach towards His Creations... and not to mean Social-Divisions.

...To Continue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sudhaama

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No doubt Sathva-guna is superior than the two other Qualities...But that does not mean all the Brahmanas born in the caste you have named so....are of Sathwa-guna...

...nor the most Inferior Quality of Indolence and Servitude can be found in one and all the so called Soodhras

...because everone of the so called socially Soodhra... INVARIABLY is not inborn with Thamasa Qualities... based on Parentage.

Similarly even a Brahmana or Kshathriya-caste person may or may not be so inferior by qualities BY BIRTH.

Vedas, Geetha and the like Gospels.... Nowhere mention these names for Castes or the Communal- divisions...

...but only for the Qualities of Humans born with... Irrespective of PARENTAGE.... as I have already detailed that amongst the Brothers and Sisters of One and the same blood and Ancestry....

...One may be a BORN-BRAHMANA ...while the other a Born-Kshathriya... and another a Born-soodhra too.... based on their INNATE QUALITIES...

...a Varied STRATA OF PERSONAGE. The Yardstick is Not Parentage... but Inborn Qualities... IRRESPECTIVE OF CASTES !!!

Here the Veda describes God's approach towards His Creations... and not to mean Social-Divisions.

...To Continue.

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You are contradicting your own statements. First of all, you are saying the divisions are not based on parentage. Next thing you say is the divisions are based on innate-qualities a human is born with.

How do you know with what qualities he is born with until after he grows-up to exhibit them ?

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

Is it you or is it Ramunajacharya I am faulting ?

Sudhaama: You are no doubt aware that any reference to caste is not allowed in this Forum. Request you to kindly refrain from any such discussion even if it is relevant to your topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badri

Sudhaama: You are no doubt aware that any reference to caste is not allowed in this Forum. Request you to kindly refrain from any such discussion even if it is relevant to your topic.

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Yes, my dear Badri... I am already keeping in mind constantly... and carefully handling the matter... since it is a sensitive issue., I know.

But certain minimum is UNAVOIDABLE... to alleviate the misconception and WRONG INTERPRETATION by some people.... thus SULLYING the high Sense of Vedas and Geetha. If I totally refrain from REVEALING THE TRUTH... as brought to light by the Great Acharya, Ramanuja... I think I will be doing a GRAVE INJUSTICE ... not only to Ramanuja but also all the people who are dumfounded UNABLE TO COUNTER the RADICALLY WRONG PROPAGANDA against the High values of Indian Heritage ..of Large-hearted approach towards mankind.

Let people criticize my statements. I welcome and will be able reply UNEMOTIONALLY and also ensuring non-interference of anybody of fanatic malefic intentions.

You know ... I am carefully protecting the interests of our Hub... conforming to Regulations.. and will continue to do so.

But please don't discourage me by asking...

... to SHY AWAY from THROWING LIGHT TOWARDS DARKNESS.... based on the Great Ramanuja's approach.

If I make it incomplete to convey the True sense of that Great Acharya's noble Services towards the Society...

...it will mean my failure to Unravel the False-shelter by some miscreants under the Holy- scriptures ...

...preventing their undue domination over the Healthy Gospels... as ESTABLISHED by the Great Acharya ...

... for the sake of United Advancement of Society with mutual Humanitarian- Love.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pizzalot

You are contradicting your own statements. First of all, you are saying the divisions are not based on parentage. Next thing you say is the divisions are based on innate-qualities a human is born with.

How do you know with what qualities he is born with until after he grows-up to exhibit them ?

So it was the parentage that was the yard stick isn't it ? Was there an instance where someone born a Sudra ever declared as Brahmana by Ramunajacharya ?

Is it you or is it Ramunajacharya I am faulting ?

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All these questions have aleady been answered in detail in this Thread. Please see my earlier postings..