Knowing Priyadarshan, original-la illAdha edhaiyum avar sErka mAttAr. Avar oru photocopier. So indhila dalit-nu vandhirundhA darshan kaila kamal kodutha scriptlEyum dalit-nu dhAn irundhirukkum. I am also :yessir:
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Knowing Priyadarshan, original-la illAdha edhaiyum avar sErka mAttAr. Avar oru photocopier. So indhila dalit-nu vandhirundhA darshan kaila kamal kodutha scriptlEyum dalit-nu dhAn irundhirukkum. I am also :yessir:
devar magan was directed by barathan right? priya darshan enge vanthaar?
virasatQuote:
Originally Posted by sakaLAKALAKAlaa Vallavar
No, both Panchavarnam and Esakki belong to the Thevar caste. Just that it's not explicitly said in the film.
இன்னொரு முறை தேவர் மகனை பார்த்துவிட்டு சொல்கிறேன். சக்தியின் குலத்தை ஒப்பிடும்போது பஞ்ச வர்ணம் பாத்திரம் ஒரு தாழ்த்தப் பட்ட வகுப்பாக படைக்கப்பட்டுள்ளது என்ற கண்ணோட்டத்திலேயே இதுவரை பார்த்து வந்ததால் அப்படியொரு கருத்தோட்டம்.Quote:
Originally Posted by equanimus
I feel Kamal don't hurt the brahmin sentiments much when he works with those people..
Especially K.Balachander, Singeetham Srinivasa Rao, Crazy Mohan(he is brahmin rite? :oops: ),
Gautham Menon.
May be I am wrong, but i did not find much(may be nothing) of bashing in Crazy Mohan or SSR films.
Also he works with KSR more just becoz they might have same ideology :lol:
no KSR is a staunch hindu..
Hindus layae thannoda Jathiya thappa solladha varaikkum yaarukkum endha prachanayum irukkadhu...Quote:
Originally Posted by Anban
For eg; Devar ah kutram sonna Nadarku kovam varuma enna??? :oops:
balachander's moviesd has alots of anti-forward class touches...Quote:
Originally Posted by m_karthik
unnal mudiyum thambi gemeni charecter, VNS poornam charecter...
But Balachander has never forsaken his religious identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivasaayi
when you still are a part of a religion/community and the negative feedback you give to them will often be taken as a constructive criticism which unfortunately is not the case with KH.
I thought it was a nod to Brando's Fletcher Christian in Mutiny On the Bounty, which was about a certain breadfruit incident :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Plum
kalyan, you are jumping from conclusion to conclusion here (and this won't go down well with Plum, who holds the copyright for the that :-) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
AFAIK MarudhanAyakam was shelved for financial reasons. Pokhran, phoren producer pulling out etc. Now pulling together the time, feel, looks and effort for such an effort is a bigger ask than what it would've been 12 years back. I don't think it was fearing the opposition of thEvars.
Ok then by this logic Kamal cannot criticize Muslims. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
groucho, nInga vEra seriousA answer paNNikittirukkInga :roll: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
(thread-ai muzhusA flow-la padinga!)
Padicchen. Remba suvarasiyamaa irunthathu. My knowledge on some of the subject talked about is poor.
But this kinda digressive discussion sure would benefit Small/Medium Thread (SMT) owners like HR and I :D
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by groucho070
P_R,Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Neenga romba appAvingO :lol2:
kalyan is right.. financial reasons ellaam illa PR..Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
P_R<Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
I was very clear :) . the following was my stand right from the beginning.
1) If you want to offer constructive criticism, you can continue as a part of the community and criticise, even if you dont fully agree with their interpretation of God. You lose your right to offer 'constructive criticism' for a community once when you are no longer a part of it.
2) If you are forsaking a religion on the basis that you have come to the conclusion that there is no god whatsoever, then at least maintain uniformity with your criticism thereafter.
3) An atheist who keeps speaking about atheism through whatever the media resources available to him is only as bad as a tele evangelist, the only thing is that he is advertising / promoting a different brand of product.
Thanks for the clarification, Anban :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anban
Oh ok ! :oops: News to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anban
Sorry and Thanks Kalyan.
:oops: PR, neither have you said anything wrong nor I did do you any favour. Pls delete the quoted line. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by P_R
Thanks. ( I will delete this too)
Kalyan,Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
Kamal is consistent, atleast statistically.. criticisms/community-population will be more or less constant across various communities...
http://www.barghouti.com/islam/meaning.html
kindly see the meaning of Islam..
ridiculing religion is different from ridiculing ridiculing religious beliefs and practices which are extra-additions to the real thing..
Kamal is the guy who wrote the lines "marumurai varuvathaai solli maainthavar vanthatheyy illai..."
I dont think tele evangelist is a gud comparison here..
sontha karuththa sonnaa thappu illai.. inge avaru onnum vyaabaaram pannalaye... DGS Dhinakaran, Paul etc Benz car-la thaan poraangalaam..
Kalyan, I jumped to the conclusion that you are jumping to conclusions. adhukku thaan. oru varalaatru aavaNamA, sabaikkuRippula appidiyE irukkattum.
Sujatha told this explicitly in an article/interview ...Quote:
Originally Posted by P_R
"antha samoogathula irukkura mukkiyaama makkal Kamal evvalavu solliyum othukkave illa.. " or something like that...
""மருதநாயகம் என்ற ஒரு அருமையான ஸ்கிரிப்ட் செய்து படப்பிடிப்பு கூட துவங்கியது. யுசுப்கான் என்பவனின் கதை. மதுரை நவாபாக ராபர்ட் க்ளைவின் காலத்தில் ஆட்சி செய்தவன்.
வெள்ளைக்காரர்களுக்கு போர்க்காலத்தில் சரக்கு கட்த்திய பிறகு அவர்களுக்கு தென்மாநிலங்களில் வரி வசூல் செய்ய உதவி, கவர்னர் பதவி பெற்று பிறகு வெள்ளைக்காரர்களையே எதிர்த்துக் கொண்டு தன்னிச்சையாக மதுரை நவாபாக நியமித்துக்கொண்டு வெள்ளையன் கோபத்துக்குள்ளகி தூக்கு தண்டனை விதிக்கப்பட்டு மதுரைக் கோட்டைக்குள்ளிருந்து போரிட்டு மாண்ட ஒரு மாவீரனின் கதை அது.
கான்சாகிப் ண்டை என்ற நாட்டுப்புறக்கதைப் பாடலும் ரைலண்ட் கில் எழுதிய வாழ்க்கைச் சரித்திரத்திலும் ஆராய்ச்சி செய்து திரைக்கதை பண்ணியிருந்தோம். படப்பிடிப்பு துவங்கியது. எலிசபெத் ராணி அதைத் துவக்கி வைத்தார். அரை மணி நேர படமும் தயாரானது. விதி மீண்டும் மெல்ல நகைத்தது.
அந்தக் கதையில் தேவர் சமுதாயத்திற்கு இழுக்காக பாட்சிகள் இருப்பதாக யாரோ வேண்டாதவர் புரளி கட்டிவிட்டதில் என்னதான் கமல் சமாதானம் சொன்னாலும் அந்த முக்கியான சமுதாயத்தில் முக்கியமானவர்கள் சமாதானமாகவில்லை. மருதநாயகம் அதனால் கைவிடப்பட்டது.
அதுமட்டும் முடிவு பெற்றிருந்தால் லகானுக்கு முன் வெளிவந்திருக்கும் படம் நிச்சயம் ஆஸ்கார் போயிருக்கும் வென்றிருக்கும்.
"""
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/archi...HaasaR___.html
btw pulithEvan is not likely to be the only challenge (idhellAm yOsikkAmayA ezhudhirippAnga).
From what I have read about Yusuf Khan (adhAvadhu, the wikipedia page), it must have been quite challenging to portray him as a 'hero' in a way Tamil audiences may emphathize with.
Clarification No.1: May be, my choice of the word 'tele evangelist' was not very appropriate. I didnt refer to the preachers from only one religion or from only one family. I included all the religious preachers, who spend more time in recruiting more heads for their organisation rather than offering solace to their own brethern (which is what they are originally supposed to do)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anban
Clarification No.2: I dont want to get dragged into 'meaning of islam' etc. We are just discussing about KH's ideologies expressed in media.
Of course, if he can criticise either 'principles' or 'practices' of a religion, he can criticise the 'principles' and 'practices' of other religions too.
Clarification No 3: "marumurai varuvathaai solli maainthavar vanthatheyy illai..."
I am seeing this in a entirely different light now, until now i have thought it refers to as rebirth, reincarnations, punarjanma of the Hindu faith. You have a point, this could have also been a covert dig at 'the resurrection'. But it is still pretty covert since a certain amount of ambiguity exists. :notworthy:
Kalyan,
I'm afraid your argument doesn't make much sense. Which community is Kamal not a part of? And how exactly? Is it simply because he isn't a believer? How does merely expressing one's lack of belief take one out of the community one otherwise belongs to?
KH has admitted so many times that he is neither a Brahmin nor a Hindu. One of his very popular statement was 'My father was a Brahmin. I am not one"Quote:
Originally Posted by equanimus
But saying that and holding it on principle, however much sincerely, doesn't simply mean he doesn't belong to "the larger community" (whatever it may be) as such. There are so many markers to one's identity and not all of it is a simple matter of choice. Some of the most immediate markers of Kamal's identity are squarely Tamil brahmin-esque.
And Kamal is not "admitting" it as much as realigning himself with it. In fact, there's very little to "admit" here! One "admits" only what's already suspected of one in some sense.
And what is my point? I think all these allegations of Kamal being anti-brahmin and anti-Hindu (while we're at it, shouldn't one also explain the difference?) is paranoiac. I simply maintain that there's nothing in his work or even his offline persona that suggests this.
Kamal had reiterated the above mentioned statement quite a few times in different interviews. Frankly, neither KH is interested to show himself as a brahmin / hindu, nor are the brahmins interested to show him as one among them. then how does he continue to belong to 'the larger community'? just because the others feel he is still one?Quote:
Originally Posted by equanimus
you are free to decide it for yourself. the proof is in front of you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by equanimus
I'm not saying he is interested in it, but that it's part of his identity anyway. Of course he's interested in making moves that distance him from the identity (and of course he'll keep reiterating it!), but that doesn't mean he simply ceases to be one.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
"The brahmins" are not a one-dimensional group. Just like any other caste group. I suppose there are a lot of brahmins who see Kamal as "one among them," irrespective of whether he is a believer, considers himself a Hindu etc. or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
And who are "the others" here? Those who aren't brahmins or Hindus (the difference still needs to be elucidated!)? If yes, the question perhaps to be asked is, if neither of them think Kamal belongs to their group, where does he actually belong?
I think it's absurd to see any society as an entity that's neatly divided into various teams like in a sports tournament.
I guess its time to include a poll in this thread. It need not only be about theist-atheist and so on. suggestions are welcome. :)
But I hope you noticed that I didn't use the term "anti-brahminic." There is anti-brahminism in some of his films (and of course there is a general sense of it in his public persona as well), but they don't have an anti-brahmin character. There is a significant difference, even if it's a bit cliched to say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
What is the most obvious but unsaid truth here? One of the foremost reasons for characterizing Kamal as anti-brahmin is that he is a brahmin by birth. It's not hard to see this at all. There are a lot of people who have criticised brahminism. What makes Kamal special at all?
Others denouncing the traditional values of a caste/religion is one thing, but one of their own doing it is something else. So even some nominal gestures ('nominal' with respect to the ideological discourse in the larger society) are usually blown out of proportions. And Kamal is someone who has actually placed some nontrivial objections to the brahminic values. This is how, I think, we need to understand this.
Kalyan, you need to reassess and revisit their films if you believe KB's criticism is automatically constructive, let alone sincere, than KH.Quote:
Originally Posted by kalyan
This has segued for long, but I find these allegations 'paranoiac' in deed. Intensity towards Kamal's views of Hindus in general and Brahmins in particular, stems precisely because the dissenting polemist happens to be, in birth and flesh, formally akin.
Kalyan,
you are showing some bias.. You say its ambiguous and hence covert..
But you are able to decode whatever coded message Kamal puts in his movies against hindus/brahmins.. Those messages were also supposed to be ambiguous for the common man, but you are too intelligent..