I know your anger, but athaiyum meeri padal tharam irukkirathuQuote:
Originally Posted by raja_fan
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I know your anger, but athaiyum meeri padal tharam irukkirathuQuote:
Originally Posted by raja_fan
To put in my points to what Vel and Maddy are touching upon, IR to his credit has been always mixing genres with Carnatic kept as the base (that is what MSV used to do in ol' days). ARR to his credit has explored, hiphop, sufi, hindusthani all at the same time not mixing them with carnatic or any other form. Both have their distinct style that has created a fan following with unique tastes. Nothing demonstrates this more than when we take two songs - one by IR in 1980s Kadal meengal - 'Endrendrum Aanandhame' - which plays out like a soft rock number which has so much of carnatic for a night club number.
ARR explores Rock and Pop in "Palakaatu machanukku" in Maymadham and we see it is a rock song in Thamizh that kicks big time ass - right from the voice, rendition and instrumentation. When ARR takes carnatic like he did for 'Thangamae thamizukkillai' in Duet - wasn't it undiluted Anandha bhairavi - and stays an absolutely true carnatic number barring a few synthetic beats. Therein lies the difference that in my opinion vel was trying to imply.
Music quality is there. But the old task master IR is now gone..See how that female singer finishes the pallavi the first time in the song ( such a hurry in "uyirai yen koduthaai" without stretching it a bit longer )Quote:
I know your anger, but athaiyum meeri padal tharam irukkirathu
IR is badly missing calibre like SJ or Chitra..
wher can i download UO songs? Please help. I have been searching for it...
Please help...
Melakartha (15) Mayamalavagowla - Melakartha (57) Simhendramadhyamam - Melakartha (72) RasikapriyaQuote:
Originally Posted by thumburu
MMG, Simmendramadhyamam and Rasikapriya are tonic shifts or grahabedham counterparts - may be the song makes a tonic shift from rasikapriya ro MMG
Interestingly, from wikipedia -QUOTE The ancient Tamils also derived new panns by the process of modal shift of tonic and by the process of reallocating the pitch and beat of the notes. Cilappatikaram has an example of this in the chapter Arangetrukadai, where the Pann Mercharupalai is changed to derive a new Pann. By the model shift of the tonic (பண்ணுப்பெயர்த்தல் - pannupeyardhal) the ancient Tamils devised the seven major palais. END QUOTE
And thumburu, guess what, those seven palais are the very same old raga list that you lament !!
QUOTE The seven major palais or parent scales of the music of the ancient Tamils are: Sempalai (corresponding to the present Harikambhoji), Padumalai Palai (Natabhairavi), Sevvazhi Palai (Hanumatodi), Arum Palai (Dheera Sankarabharanam), Kodi Palai (Kharaharapriya), Vilari Palai (Hanumatodi), and Merchem Palai (Mecha Kalyani). END QUOTE
Time and again he proves the same old golden rule - never underestimate IR's songs :lol: ...tough to decipher his musical intellect and intent behind his songs...All these are my humble personal opinions.
That was a good point by vel. I was also wondering why the Mayamalavagowla came in the Rasikapriya song. Especially when 'Kalathai' is also based on the same Mayamalavagowla scale. Illayaraja was probably trying to demonstrate the modal shift in the song.
True thumburu that the ceaseless experimentation of the past may have subsided but there is still lot more left in this man. To me it seems like Illayaraja is experimenting more with the vivadhi and prati madyama ragas these days. I heard a recent album dedicated to Ramana Maharishi wherein Bombay Jayashree sings in a very rare raga. Same way in the recent Malayalam film 'Sooriyan' he has used 'Ragavardhini'. What I do see in this album (uliyin Osai) is that a decent amount of intelligence has gone in, especially the way Raja narrates in 'Agandayil'. I guess if we listen to this more keenly and don't dismiss this off, I am sure we will find why certain ragas are being used.
A lot of people have pointed out that while 'Kalathai Vendra' and 'Kallai Irunthen' sound nice but modern. Agreed, but that is how film music is nowadays. None of the historical's in the recent past had the feel of the period throughout. A recent example is 'Jodha Akbar'. While the songs are good it will be a stretch to say that the sounds belonged to that Mughal period. So I think we need not worry about the period feel and should just enjoy the songs.
"Pazhamudhir cholai" is in Khamaas IMO though many hubbers consider it as "HariKhambodhi", of which "Khamaas" is a janyam.
"Mandhiram idhu" ragam is still a mystery. I have posed the same query in ROS thread long back and received unconvincing replies like "Sri Ranjini", "Bhagashri" etc. I feel it is not a homogenous raga. For most parts it sounds like "Bahudhari" and that "saayalil mayile" Kaarvai in charanam part alone deviates to Dhesh . RR/Vel/Suresh or others, can you clarify?
vel, you are right as "Graha bedham" on RasikaPriya leads to Mayamalavagowlai , Simhendramadhyamam. It is quite plausible Raja brought in MMG to Rasikapriya owing to the same reason. But this "pann", "palai" stuff are "greek and latin" to me :). Are you telling Raja mainly goes for these 6 MeLakarthas as they were used by ancient tamil music and they are got by tonic shifts? I have no qualms on these raga usages.
Ennamo ponga. paattu nanna irundha seri dhaan. Who's gonna crib if the songs are fresh and listenable whatever be the raga /scale used? :)-
vel - do you mean to say that in trying to compose for a pre - vijayanagar period music, IR has gone straight back into the sangam era musical rules? If he did intentionally, that would be a great design. IS there any reference as to how 12th century music would sound? We know for sure that this was post thevaram period and more closer to Kalingathu parani period . I dont know if parani had any musical references.
Thumburu, it is my gut feel that by using these seven major palais or parent scales of the music of the ancient Tamils, namely Sempalai (present Harikambhoji), Padumalai Palai (Natabhairavi),
Sevvazhi Palai (Hanumatodi without madhyamam), Arum Palai (Dheera Sankarabharanam), Kodi Palai (Kharaharapriya), Vilari Palai (Hanumatodi), and Merchem Palai (Mecha Kalyani), etc, Raja is able to exploit better flexibility to discuss and explore western classic models / formulae....It is not out of scope to quote what once shankar mahadevan said in an interview that it is an amazing fact that for every Western scale, there is an equivalent raga. He quoted that the Lydian scale is kalyani (carnatic) or Yaman Raga (hindustani)..."
Thats why most foreigners who are hooked to raja think that he is a phenomenon...see below a quote by Dave Kerman, a music distributor in the US...He is a westerner who however manages to define raja's calibre in words that we could not manage to string together...
QUOTE
DAVID KERMAN (ReR-USA, Music Distributor, North America) - We are big fans of the Maestro, and are proud to be the exclusive North American importer of the WINGS CD. ReR USA holds no allegiance to any particular style or genre of music, rather we only care about excellence. That's why we're so thrilled to have ilaiyaraaja !!. What makes Ilaiyaraaja so universal is his cheerful adoption of much of the world's music and its instruments while remaining focused on the needs of song and the language of popular film; what makes him so addictive is his extraordinary sense of arrangement and instrumentation. Everything is detail with a small surprise lurking around every corner. This is work of painstaking subtlety, wrapped in simple forms - and luminous undemonstrative musicianship - the kind of work that grows with every listening and depends on its inner qualities and not on shock, dissidence or effect. These are perfectly crafted songs with mysterious arrangements and a catalogue of rhythms that are never as simple as they seem. A gem.!
UNQUOTE